Top European Soccer Teams Agree to Join Breakaway League

[DH1986]

3 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I thought about that too. I'm thinking that the ESL was so vilified because it was a closed shop. No relegation no chance of being promoted into it. Original members could never be demoted if they did introduce relegation at a later time.

And it would have killed off the EPL too because all the TV money would have drained away into the new ESL An implosion of English football.

This latest proposal would not be a closed shop and would include relegation and promotion chances.

A British Super League isn’t any more attractive than the Premier League......only two clubs in Scotland have an opportunity of making any real progress in it.

 

The overwhelming number of Scottish clubs are left behind because of the greed of two.

 

 

[Rogue Daddy]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It's all about money. And as I said even if they got no share of any TV money at all they would still be overwhelmingly dominant. It's their giant fan base, gate receipts, sponsorship deals and merchandising profits that propel them so far ahead. Plus the Euro cash they rake in.

I can think of nothing Scottish football authorities could do to change that.

This is what really 'rips ma knitting'... for all their wealth, gate receipts, merchandising deals, everything..... our game is still rigged to suit 'them'! Our authorities bend over backwards, to suit 'them'. Our league set-up is done in such a way, as to suit 'them'.

 

The authorities can make changes - they can change or expand the league to 18 teams, they can change their constitution so that there is equal representation on the board, they can change the voting arrangements etc.. but they won't. And it'll be the same old, same old, unless they leave. Nothing will change unless they leave.

 

You think that would be devastating for Scottish football, I think it would be the making 🤷‍♂️ - the world would be a boring place if we all agreed. As would JKB.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Yeah, fair point. That's how it should be. 

 

Another thing that crossed my mind. They obviously want more money, that's clear to see. And I thought how do they expect to get any more than the billions they're currently raking in from TV while remaining in England.

The only thing I can come up with is this proposal of a "British super league" which would actually just be pretty much the same English league with the exception of the OF potential cash cow being shoe horned into it.

[JFK-1]

3 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

A British Super League isn’t any more attractive than the Premier League......only two clubs in Scotland have an opportunity of making any real progress in it.

 

The overwhelming number of Scottish clubs are left behind because of the greed of two.

 

 

 

I  mostly agree, aside from their British league being no more attractive with the OF in it. It would be. They're as big as anything currently in and potentially even bigger but can't be exploited by the money men to the same degree as things currently stand.

[JFK-1]

5 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

This is what really 'rips ma knitting'... for all their wealth, gate receipts, merchandising deals, everything..... our game is still rigged to suit 'them'! Our authorities bend over backwards, to suit 'them'. Our league set-up is done in such a way, as to suit 'them'.

 

The authorities can make changes - they can change or expand the league to 18 teams, they can change their constitution so that there is equal representation on the board, they can change the voting arrangements etc.. but they won't. And it'll be the same old, same old, unless they leave. Nothing will change unless they leave.

 

You think that would be devastating for Scottish football, I think it would be the making 🤷‍♂️ - the world would be a boring place if we all agreed. As would JKB.

 

I believe it would be devastating from a financial and football quality perspective. If your only interest is in it being more competitive no matter the quality yes it would be better if they go.

[Fozzyonthefence]

54 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I  mostly agree, aside from their British league being no more attractive with the OF in it. It would be. They're as big as anything currently in and potentially even bigger but can't be exploited by the money men to the same degree as things currently stand.

Rangers and Celtic potentially bigger than Man U, Liverpool?   🤣🤣🤣

[jamboinglasgow]

Just read from a journalist that UEFA are not going to give any of the 12 a sporting punishment. They will look at steps in the future if needed. With La Liga announcing they wont punish their clubs as they suffered enough from reputational damage from fans, you are seeing the 12 getting away with this and knowing they will go again.  

 

UEFA are keeping the changes to the Champions League brought in to benefit these clubs, they are not being punished. 

[Mikey1874]

20 hours ago, Cruyff said:

No, of course not. It's up to clubs to close the gap through developing players through academies and selling them on, better recruitment and getting to a stronger financial position. 

 

Leicester and Blackburn have both won the EPL recently. Wigan have won the FA Cup. Middlesbrough have won the league Cup. 

 

We've come close on a number of occasions as have Aberdeen. It can be done. 

 

That's certainly   the Old Firm fans position. Blame the other clubs. Nothing to do with up to £20 million a season from the Champions League. 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

That's certainly   the Old Firm fans position. Blame the other clubs. Nothing to do with up to £20 million a season from the Champions League. 

Hearts have the potential to turnover £15million a year. If our Academy worked to the level it should, we could be selling players every year for millions. On top of that we have FoH donations. It's entirely down to the running of clubs. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

Hearts have the potential to turnover £15million a year. If our Academy worked to the level it should, we could be selling players every year for millions. On top of that we have FoH donations. It's entirely down to the running of clubs. 

 

So Cadiz can challenge Resl Madrid and Barcelona for La Liga, Wolfsburg or Leverkusan can win the Bundesliga and Genoa can do the same in Italy. 

 

Sounds really simple. 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I believe it would be devastating from a financial and football quality perspective. If your only interest is in it being more competitive no matter the quality yes it would be better if they go.

there is no “believe” about it. Your are bang on the money It would factually be financially devastating - there is no question. 
 

How hollow has the feeling of winning the championship been ? Does anyone really care.. that’s what it will be like on worse.. because hearts revenues will be gutted, the grim quality of player we can afford now will be absolutely decimated. 
 

I applaud the optimism of some, it isn’t reality - like many things at the moment it’s an unsubstantiated dream driven by emotion rather than being based on logic. 

[Des Lynam]

What if Hearts had a chance or pathway to the BSL? 
 

First and foremost people need to get over the nationalistic nonsense when thinking about this. Hearts are a wonderful Scottish club but I’m bored with our set up. Would taking part in a British league mean we’d lose our identity? Imo it would only strengthen it. Plus more money and professionalism coming into the Scottish game would help. 
 

 


 

 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

What if Hearts had a chance or pathway to the BSL? 
 

First and foremost people need to get over the nationalistic nonsense when thinking about this. Hearts are a wonderful Scottish club but I’m bored with our set up. Would taking part in a British league mean we’d lose our identity? Imo it would only strengthen it. Plus more money and professionalism coming into the Scottish game would help. 
 

 


 

 

100% this is what we should be doing. We have huge potential.  Staying behind in Scottish football will cannibalise our support. More money, more quality will allow us to grow exponentially.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

100% this is what we should be doing. We have huge potential.  Staying behind in Scottish football will cannibalise our support. More money, more quality will allow us to grow exponentially.

 

Depends. I liked what some people were saying about the ESL. You think fans of say Arsenal would enjoy season after season of being near the bottom of the league with not even relegation to revitalise things. 

[Rogue Daddy]

4 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

What if Hearts had a chance or pathway to the BSL? 
 

First and foremost people need to get over the nationalistic nonsense when thinking about this. Hearts are a wonderful Scottish club but I’m bored with our set up. Would taking part in a British league mean we’d lose our identity? Imo it would only strengthen it. Plus more money and professionalism coming into the Scottish game would help. 
 

 


 

 

I'm open to anything that will change the product that's on offer at the moment. Especially if it means ridding us of the embarrassing, catastrophic, corrupt and incompetent governing body we have to endure at present.

 

FTSFA FTSPFL FTOF FTH

[Nookie Bear]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So Cadiz can challenge Resl Madrid and Barcelona for La Liga, Wolfsburg or Leverkusan can win the Bundesliga and Genoa can do the same in Italy. 

 

Sounds really simple. 

 

Wolfsburg won it around 12 years ago but Bayern seem to have won it every since, just about.

 

[Cruyff]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So Cadiz can challenge Resl Madrid and Barcelona for La Liga, Wolfsburg or Leverkusan can win the Bundesliga and Genoa can do the same in Italy. 

 

Sounds really simple. 

What's your point? 🤔 

 

Real Madrid and Bayern Munich turnover about a billion quid a year. The OF turnover doesn't even touch the sides in comparison and the gap between them & us, compared with Cadiz and Real Madrid isn't as wide. 

 

We've challenged for the league and trophies within my lifetime, when the OF had far better players than what they do now. 

 

Look at Rangers key players, Tavenier, Kamara and Morelos, how much did they pay for all of them combined? Less than a million? 

 

It's entirely up to Hearts to recruit and produce players to close the gap. 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Depends. I liked what some people were saying about the ESL. You think fans of say Arsenal would enjoy season after season of being near the bottom of the league with not even relegation to revitalise things. 

there should always been relegation and promotion. No reason we couldn’t climb to the top league like Swansea, Bournemouth have done. No reason we couldn’t establish ourselves in the long term.  The club would explode in size. 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, Cruyff said:

What's your point? 🤔 

 

Real Madrid and Bayern Munich turnover about a billion quid a year. The OF turnover doesn't even touch the sides in comparison and the gap between them & us, compared with Cadiz and Real Madrid isn't as wide. 

 

We've challenged for the league and trophies within my lifetime, when the OF had far better players than what they do now. 

 

Look at Rangers key players, Tavenier, Kamara and Morelos, how much did they pay for all of them combined? Less than a million? 

 

It's entirely up to Hearts to recruit and produce players to close the gap. 

 

I don't see how its different.

 

You say it's about producing good young players. You say German, Spanish and Italian clubs can't do that.

 

Destroys your argument. 

 

I agree its possible. But it's harder than you suggest. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

there is no “believe” about it. Your are bang on the money It would factually be financially devastating - there is no question. 
 

How hollow has the feeling of winning the championship been ? Does anyone really care.. that’s what it will be like on worse.. because hearts revenues will be gutted, the grim quality of player we can afford now will be absolutely decimated. 
 

I applaud the optimism of some, it isn’t reality - like many things at the moment it’s an unsubstantiated dream driven by emotion rather than being based on logic. 

“Financially devasting”?  Perhaps for Premier clubs that rely on the OF to fill 3/4 of their stadia.  But not for Hearts.  The tv deal is abysmal in Scotland, we’d be as well as not having one and going back to 3pm Saturday kick offs for everyone.    
 

Our tv deal is worse than the Scandinavian leagues - it costs Sky £330,000 to televise a SPFL game compared to £330 million per game in England.  Staggering!   
 

I’d love to see Hearts win a Premiership without the OF and hopefully finishing ahead of Hibs and Aberdeen on a regular basis.

 

As for a British league, we wouldn’t be considered for it anyway but not sure I’d enjoy being a Sunderland (far bigger club than us) and toiling in the 3rd tier.  Or stuck in the Championship doing nothing like Forest or Sheffield Wednesday who are about to get relegated.   We could get a rich owner and do a Bournemouth but even then it’s all about survival in the Premier.   It would be good playing different teams and only twice a season, granted, but for me the negatives outweigh the positives and has zero chance of happening anyway. 

[OTT]

14 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

“Financially devasting”?  Perhaps for Premier clubs that rely on the OF to fill 3/4 of their stadia.  But not for Hearts.  The tv deal is abysmal in Scotland, we’d be as well as not having one and going back to 3pm Saturday kick offs for everyone.    
 

Our tv deal is worse than the Scandinavian leagues - it costs Sky £330,000 to televise a SPFL game compared to £330 million per game in England.  Staggering!   
 

I’d love to see Hearts win a Premiership without the OF and hopefully finishing ahead of Hibs and Aberdeen on a regular basis.

 

As for a British league, we wouldn’t be considered for it anyway but not sure I’d enjoy being a Sunderland (far bigger club than us) and toiling in the 3rd tier.  Or stuck in the Championship doing nothing like Forest or Sheffield Wednesday who are about to get relegated.   We could get a rich owner and do a Bournemouth but even then it’s all about survival in the Premier.   It would be good playing different teams and only twice a season, granted, but for me the negatives outweigh the positives and has zero chance of happening anyway. 

 

It looks like an awful existence. Toiling away in the lower reaches to for a season or two in the sun getting pumped every week by Saudi money?

 

**** that. 

[Cruyff]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I don't see how its different.

 

You say it's about producing good young players. You say German, Spanish and Italian clubs can't do that.

 

Destroys your argument. 

 

I agree its possible. But it's harder than you suggest. 

No it doesn't and I've never said other clubs couldn't do that. 

 

£ Turnover

CFC £70.2 million (2020)

RFC £59million (2020)

AFC £14.34 million(2020)

HMFC £12.27 million (2020)

HFC £8.9m (2021)

 

£ Difference between clubs 

CFC £70.2m

RFC: CFC(+£11.2m) 

AFC: CFC(+£55.m);RFC(+£44.66m)

HMFC: CFC(+£57.93m);RFC(+£46.73m);AFC(+£2.07m) 

HFC: CFC(+£61.3m);RFC(+£50.1m);AFC(+£5.44m);HMFC(+£3.37m)

 

La Liga Revenue

 

The difference between Real Madrid and Atletico, who are top of La Liga is £403million alone. The disparity between Real Madrid & Atletico (47%) is much great than that of the OF clubs to Hearts which is (17%) at most. 

 

There is absolutely no reason why Hearts cannot get to a point in the future where we are capable of challenging the OF. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Cruyff

[vegas-voss]

4 hours ago, DH1986 said:

Been looking at various media outlets for the widespread condemnation of a British Super League......haven’t seen any rants from Neville & Co so far.

 

What is the difference between greed on the European level and greed on a British level ?

 

Bunch of hypocrites.

 

Difference is Sky and BT own rights to that greed 

[kingantti1874]

3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

“Financially devasting”?  Perhaps for Premier clubs that rely on the OF to fill 3/4 of their stadia.  But not for Hearts.  The tv deal is abysmal in Scotland, we’d be as well as not having one and going back to 3pm Saturday kick offs for everyone.    
 

Our tv deal is worse than the Scandinavian leagues - it costs Sky £330,000 to televise a SPFL game compared to £330 million per game in England.  Staggering!   
 

I’d love to see Hearts win a Premiership without the OF and hopefully finishing ahead of Hibs and Aberdeen on a regular basis.

 

As for a British league, we wouldn’t be considered for it anyway but not sure I’d enjoy being a Sunderland (far bigger club than us) and toiling in the 3rd tier.  Or stuck in the Championship doing nothing like Forest or Sheffield Wednesday who are about to get relegated.   We could get a rich owner and do a Bournemouth but even then it’s all about survival in the Premier.   It would be good playing different teams and only twice a season, granted, but for me the negatives outweigh the positives and has zero chance of happening anyway. 

you’ve made some good points there, some of which support my arguement rather than your own. Yes our tv deal is worse than Scandinavia. It sure as hell won’t improve if 90% of the audience in Scotland couldnt care less..

 

You seem to be assuming that our gates would rise if the old firm left to make up that shortfall? Well it will take a hell of a jump to make up £2m+ and with our capacity it’s not possible. With the drain in quality and lack of interest from the next generation our gates will be heading down / not up.
 

some of those teams you refer to would be finished instantly, we’d survive but the standard will decline - we wouldn’t have anything like full houses within 10/ 20 years. Currently 90% of the country support one of the old firm, that proportion would rise and rise. 
 

we need to be part of an attractive set-up, what is left of Scottish football would be a backwater. Same as the welsh, same as the Irish 
 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by kingantti1874

[Cruyff]

I think if we're looking at a cross border league, we should have a Welsh/N. Irish/Irish and Scottish league. It's wouldn't be EPL level revenues but it's a bigger audience and would improve the level of our league and theirs, quite considerably. 

 

Getting chewed up by the size of the English leagues would be issues for many Scottish clubs. It's not the way forward. 

[S Form]

29 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I think if we're looking at a cross border league, we should have a Welsh/N. Irish/Irish and Scottish league. It's wouldn't be EPL level revenues but it's a bigger audience and would improve the level of our league and theirs, quite considerably. 

 

Getting chewed up by the size of the English leagues would be issues for many Scottish clubs. It's not the way forward. 

Are you advocating a ‘Celtic’ league? 😉😀

[Cruyff]

25 minutes ago, S Form said:

Are you advocating a ‘Celtic’ league? 😉😀

With a CK..... 

[Tommy Brown]

6 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

What bothers me most about this latest of countless past rumours of them sailing off down to England is that I never deemed it credible before. I was more than aware they would absolutely love it. But didn't think it had any chance of happening.

If this latest report turns out to be true i think this time it actually could. The elite in England are not going to stop pushing for reformation. That's an absolute fact despite suggestions of news baiting.

They want more money and the greatest avenue for it is the TV companies. If those TV companies insist the new setup include the OF then it will. And the fact is they're more than likely to insist it does. The OF are a cash cow waiting to be milked by these companies.

I suspect they have more fans in the UK alone than any other 2 clubs in England. Estimates put Rangers fans in the UK alone at around 5 million. And even more millions internationally. Then throw in Celtic and you're looking at 10 million plus easily.

The money men now rule football. They're not going to let that pass up and the big guns in England are not going to stop pushing for a reformation. The ESL was simply an opening shot. They will try something else and follow through on it if it gets the support of UEFA.

 

Where does it stop?

They rake up majority of domestic and Eurocash.

The breakaway to keep all cash.

The debt continues to get worse. They exhaust American and Asian cash markets.

Where next? ****ing Mars?

 

Let them go, it will implode.

They have got to start living within the status quo which accommodates too much already.

[Cade]

Prime Minister insists he had no idea the ESL plan was coming.

When asked what was discussed in a meeting he had with Man U's chief exec three days before the ESL plans were announced, he refused to say.

 

[Nookie Bear]

7 hours ago, DH1986 said:

Been looking at various media outlets for the widespread condemnation of a British Super League......haven’t seen any rants from Neville & Co so far.

 

What is the difference between greed on the European level and greed on a British level ?

 

Bunch of hypocrites.

 

This has irritated me too. 
 

If people think football has been “saved” this week then they are deluded. 

[Rogue Daddy]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

No it doesn't and I've never said other clubs couldn't do that. 

 

£ Turnover

CFC £70.2 million (2020)

RFC £59million (2020)

AFC £14.34 million(2020)

HMFC £12.27 million (2020)

HFC £8.9m (2021)

 

£ Difference between clubs 

CFC £70.2m

RFC: CFC(+£11.2m) 

AFC: CFC(+£55.m);RFC(+£44.66m)

HMFC: CFC(+£57.93m);RFC(+£46.73m);AFC(+£2.07m) 

HFC: CFC(+£61.3m);RFC(+£50.1m);AFC(+£5.44m);HMFC(+£3.37m)

 

La Liga Revenue

 

The difference between Real Madrid and Atletico, who are top of La Liga is £403million alone. The disparity between Real Madrid & Atletico (47%) is much great than that of the OF clubs to Hearts which is (17%) at most. 

 

There is absolutely no reason why Hearts cannot get to a point in the future where we are capable of challenging the OF. 

Yeah, I said something similar a couple of days ago. With our fan base, facilities, finances (including FOH & benefactors) we should definitely be challenging at the top. A couple of things would have to change - leadership at the club for one including management and youth setup and, I fear, the general Scottish set up that we all know, heavily favours the uglies. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Rogue Daddy

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

you’ve made some good points there, some of which support my arguement rather than your own. Yes our tv deal is worse than Scandinavia. It sure as hell won’t improve if 90% of the audience in Scotland couldnt care less..

 

You seem to be assuming that our gates would rise if the old firm left to make up that shortfall? Well it will take a hell of a jump to make up £2m+ and with our capacity it’s not possible. With the drain in quality and lack of interest from the next generation our gates will be heading down / not up.
 

some of those teams you refer to would be finished instantly, we’d survive but the standard will decline - we wouldn’t have anything like full houses within 10/ 20 years. Currently 90% of the country support one of the old firm, that proportion would rise and rise. 
 

we need to be part of an attractive set-up, what is left of Scottish football would be a backwater. Same as the welsh, same as the Irish.

 

Scottish club football is dead with only 2 teams 
 

 

We’d never be like the Irish or Welsh leagues, this is a common misconception usually from the English -  they have no big clubs of the size of us, Hibs Aberdeen (Wales do but they play in the English pyramid and always have done), not sure but they are also presumably nearly all part time?

 

We’re already a footballing backwater, I’d rather we were a competitive footballing backwater than a laughable one where only 2 teams have won the league for nearly 40 years and will likely never change. 
 

Not sure where you’re getting your 90% figure from?  The last study I saw was that 50% support either Rangers or Celtic and the other 50% support the rest.  That’s a huge difference from 90/10.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We’d never be like the Irish or Welsh leagues, this is a common misconception usually from the English -  they have no big clubs of the size of us, Hibs Aberdeen (Wales do but they play in the English pyramid and always have done), not sure but they are also presumably nearly all part time?

 

We’re already a footballing backwater, I’d rather we were a competitive footballing backwater than a laughable one where only 2 teams have won the league for nearly 40 years and will likely never change. 
 

Not sure where you’re getting your 90% figure from?  The last study I saw was that 50% support either Rangers or Celtic and the other 50% support the rest.  That’s a huge difference from 90/10.

 

 

Not just the English - many in our own media subscribe to this view. Graham Spiers actually said we'd be like the Irish league without the OF. Our own media do a perfectly fine job of talking down our own game without needing the English to do it. At least English pundits are mostly talking from a position of ignorance and never watching any Scottish games outwit ones the OF are playing in.

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Not just the English - many in our own media subscribe to this view. Graham Spiers actually said we'd be like the Irish league without the OF. Our own media do a perfectly fine job of talking down our own game without needing the English to do it. At least English pundits are mostly talking from a position of ignorance and never watching any Scottish games outwit ones the OF are playing in.

 

I think I remember Spiers saying that actually.  Normally a decent journalist but was talking out his arse on that one, probably with his Hun hat on, although to be fair he’s not normally afraid to call them or their fans out either. 

[JDK2020]

9 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

What bothers me most about this latest of countless past rumours of them sailing off down to England is that I never deemed it credible before. I was more than aware they would absolutely love it. But didn't think it had any chance of happening.

If this latest report turns out to be true i think this time it actually could. The elite in England are not going to stop pushing for reformation. That's an absolute fact despite suggestions of news baiting.

They want more money and the greatest avenue for it is the TV companies. If those TV companies insist the new setup include the OF then it will. And the fact is they're more than likely to insist it does. The OF are a cash cow waiting to be milked by these companies.

I suspect they have more fans in the UK alone than any other 2 clubs in England. Estimates put Rangers fans in the UK alone at around 5 million. And even more millions internationally. Then throw in Celtic and you're looking at 10 million plus easily.

The money men now rule football. They're not going to let that pass up and the big guns in England are not going to stop pushing for a reformation. The ESL was simply an opening shot. They will try something else and follow through on it if it gets the support of UEFA.

 

 

Lol, estimated by Diane Abbott I'm assuming?

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, JDK2020 said:

 

 

Lol, estimated by Diane Abbott I'm assuming?

Probably the same guy that said Barry MacKay was getting sold for £6 million.  Now at his peak at 26 and playing for Fleetwood Town.

[kingantti1874]

5 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

We’d never be like the Irish or Welsh leagues, this is a common misconception usually from the English -  they have no big clubs of the size of us, Hibs Aberdeen (Wales do but they play in the English pyramid and always have done), not sure but they are also presumably nearly all part time?

 

We’re already a footballing backwater, I’d rather we were a competitive footballing backwater than a laughable one where only 2 teams have won the league for nearly 40 years and will likely never change. 
 

Not sure where you’re getting your 90% figure from?  The last study I saw was that 50% support either Rangers or Celtic and the other 50% support the rest.  That’s a huge difference from 90/10.

It not a misconception at all, it’s an accurate view of the likely outcome in the scenario that funding is massively reduced. These journalists  are logically thinking through the consequence - and they are bang on the money. They are not basing it on what they would “like” to happen.

 

.. your view is based on nothing but a fanciful notion that a more competitive league means the league will grow !! It won’t - absolutely zero chance that will happen. The player standard will fall, the media interest will disappear and all the while we will be competing for attention with the biggest league on earth right on our doorstep, with Scottish teams participating in it. 

 

I keep hearing Wales and Ireland don’t have big clubs ? Aye they do - the only teams anyone cares about in Wales are Swansea and Cardiff, why do you think that is? 
 

Future generations won’t give a **** about hearts, Hibs Aberdeen or anyone else.  We will maintain support for a little while but the pull of  rangers and Celtic will grow exponentially, and for kids who don’t like rangers or Celtic they will support Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal Man U.  We will be an afterthought.
 

Ps When one of the old firm play at home they have more fans in attendance than every other fixture in Scotland combined.  There is absolutely no way it’s 50:50. Not even close to that, if anything 90% is an underestimate 

Edited April 23, 2021 by kingantti1874

[Toronto Jambo]

I'd be fully behind a unified British league with separate cup competitions and national teams. Cup competitions are negotiable for me, but national teams not.

 

Look at attendances in England, and we are comparable to Championship level. With increased interest because of reform and the possibility of competing for a league, we would be bringing in so many more fans. In a heartbeat, I'd give up that bore that is Scotland's lack of competition and replace it with the occasional Championship title race and/or premier league relegation battle. I'd probably even give it up for a title race in league one! Anything is more interesting than year after year of old firm titles. I'd actually like to see this as a priority for the Foundation of Hearts when the shares are passed over.

 

Scotland's set up is to resist change. Living in Canada, it's easy to see that no one outside Scotland cares about our league. The only people who follow the league are those who's family has supported a Scottish team for generations. Local fans should always be #1, but there needs to be growth. People criticize the product of Scottish football with a focus on matches and player skill-levels, but let's be honest: the worst part of Scottish football is it's predictability. It's time for change.

[No Idle Talk]

The thought of Celtic and the other lot pissing off out of Scottish Football excites me. I hope it happens. The media force feed us the line that those two clubs are the only thing keeping Scottish Football afloat. I vehemently disagree. I say those two clubs are strangling Scottish Football.

 

I am 45 years old. The last time a club outside of those two won the league, I was 9 years old. This cannot be allowed to continue. It's not healthy for our game. 

 

I want rid of them. Would winning the league with those two clubs mean more than winning it after they have gone? Yes. Absolutely it would. But it isn't going to happen. Not in the forseeable future anyway. Jesus Christ, Rangers went out of existence, got put down into the bottom division, and their zombie reincarnation has come back and won a league title before us, Aberdeen, or Hibernian, could win one. That is how big the gulf has become. It's embarrassing. 

 

My contention is that if we get rid of them we will immediately have a more competitive and watchable league. Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibernian, and maybe even two or three other clubs, will overnight become potential league champions. Fans come out to support winning teams. That's a fact. If you have a three way title race between us, Aberdeen, and Hibs, and it's coming down to the last few games of the season, all three clubs will be pulling in gates in the region of 20,000. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong and underestimates the supports these three clubs have. 

 

I've heard it said loads of times we will end up like the league of Ireland if we lose Celtic and Sevco. Pish. I don't buy that at all. The Irish league does not have one single club as big as us, Aberdeen, or Hibernian. Not one team in the Irish league can even average a 5,000 attendance over the course of a season. Most of the Scottish Premiership teams can average higher than 5,000 and Hearts, Aberdeen, and Hibernian, can average four or five times that. It's debatable whether football is even Ireland's first sport. It is beyond question that football is Scotland's national sport. We are not the league of Ireland and we will not become the league of Ireland.

 

Let the Old Firm go. I'm sick to death of them. A plague on both their houses.

Edited April 24, 2021 by No Idle Talk

[XB52]

6 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

It not a misconception at all, it’s an accurate view of the likely outcome in the scenario that funding is massively reduced. These journalists  are logically thinking through the consequence - and they are bang on the money. They are not basing it on what they would “like” to happen.

 

.. your view is based on nothing but a fanciful notion that a more competitive league means the league will grow !! It won’t - absolutely zero chance that will happen. The player standard will fall, the media interest will disappear and all the while we will be competing for attention with the biggest league on earth right on our doorstep, with Scottish teams participating in it. 

 

I keep hearing Wales and Ireland don’t have big clubs ? Aye they do - the only teams anyone cares about in Wales are Swansea and Cardiff, why do you think that is? 
 

Future generations won’t give a **** about hearts, Hibs Aberdeen or anyone else.  We will maintain support for a little while but the pull of  rangers and Celtic will grow exponentially, and for kids who don’t like rangers or Celtic they will support Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal Man U.  We will be an afterthought.
 

Ps When one of the old firm play at home they have more fans in attendance than every other fixture in Scotland combined.  There is absolutely no way it’s 50:50. Not even close to that, if anything 90% is an underestimate 

You keep belittling anyone who argues with you but please remember that they have as much chance of being right as you do. You are stating your opinion, not fact. We'll hopefully never have to find out who is correct though. 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

You keep belittling anyone who argues with you but please remember that they have as much chance of being right as you do. You are stating your opinion, not fact. We'll hopefully never have to find out who is correct though. 

I am not trying to belittling anyone. Im just making points that so far no one has been able to counter other than “we are currently a big club” We are a decent sized club. 20 years after they go and all the next generation know is the British league we won’t be a big club.

 

if I this happens we have to be part of it otherwise we are in real trouble

 

 

 

 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

I am not trying to belittling anyone. Im just making points that so far no one has been able to counter other than “we are currently a big club” We are a decent sized club. 20 years after they go and all the next generation know is the British league we won’t be a big club.

 

if I this happens we have to be part of it otherwise we are in real trouble

 

 

 

 

You're giving your opinion and that's fine but you keep stating them as irrefutable facts. They are not. We, and hibs/aberdeen/d. UTD etc could flourish without the financial disadvantages of the of. Not to mention the bigotry. There were never any big clubs in wales/Ireland so comparing us to these countries is false. Don't get me wrong, you could end up being right but nobody knows

[kingantti1874]

26 minutes ago, XB52 said:

You're giving your opinion and that's fine but you keep stating them as irrefutable facts. They are not. We, and hibs/aberdeen/d. UTD etc could flourish without the financial disadvantages of the of. Not to mention the bigotry. There were never any big clubs in wales/Ireland so comparing us to these countries is false. Don't get me wrong, you could end up being right but nobody knows

Ok I’ll take your point and shut up after this post but I don’t think my views are simply opinion.  

No one on here has suggest that revenues will grow or even be maintained in that scenario have they? That isn’t really a credible arguement is it.  
 

And loss of revenue is a bad thing for any business, over the longterm it leads to the deterioration of the business and the product 100% of the time That isn’t an opinion- that is a fact played out across every business on earth.  
 

I do accept short term competition could increase but again I haven’t seen any argument put forward as to how that can be maintained with reduced coverage and quality. We’d be MySpace in a post Facebook world .

 

You know at the end of the day, if a British league is to happen I am sure there will be a huge scramble from the boards at hearts, hibs and Aberdeen and the other scottish clubs to make sure they are part of it - they are all business people and will make decisions based on the outlook for their business. They won’t stake the future of their club on sentiment and hope
 

As promised I’ll shut up now.

Edited April 24, 2021 by kingantti1874

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Ok I’ll take your point and shut up after this post but I don’t think my views are simply opinion.  

No one on here has suggest that revenues will grow or even be maintained in that scenario have they? That isn’t really a credible arguement is it.  
 

And loss of revenue is a bad thing for any business, over the longterm it leads to the deterioration of the business and the product 100% of the time That isn’t an opinion- that is a fact played out across every business on earth.  
 

I do accept short term competition could increase but again I haven’t seen any argument put forward as to how that can be maintained with reduced coverage and quality. We’d be MySpace in a post Facebook world .

 

You know at the end of the day, if a British league is to happen I am sure there will be a huge scramble from the boards at hearts, hibs and Aberdeen and the other scottish clubs to make sure they are part of it - they are all business people and will make decisions based on the outlook for their business. They won’t stake the future of their club on sentiment and hope
 

As promised I’ll shut up now.

None of us know what would happen but it's good that you're able to accept the other view on this one, it doesn't happen that often on here.

 

It could well be that clubs are in a better financial position, it could be worse, but so what?

The way I see it is we're Hearts, a proud Scottish club, and we'll play in the Scottish League for years to come. We'll have good years and bad years and although the club has to be protected and do it's best to earn I don't care too much about that side. We sign players, we play football, and we don't need the old firm to artificially prop us up, we're not St Mirren or Kilmarnock.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

I am not trying to belittling anyone. Im just making points that so far no one has been able to counter other than “we are currently a big club” We are a decent sized club. 20 years after they go and all the next generation know is the British league we won’t be a big club.

 

if I this happens we have to be part of it otherwise we are in real trouble

 

 

 

 

This "British Super League" is as likely to happen as its ESL counterpart. However, you have a point in that the only way that something like this can truly happen is via a pyramid and by competition. There are plenty of clubs who have been artificially inflated in size by TV money in size who do not have our pedigree or history (e.g. Bournemouth) but whose income dwarfs us. That said, there's nothing in it for English clubs so it simply won't happen.

[Hashimoto]

I'm in the camp that says that Scottish football would be the poorer without the OF.....I doesn't mean that I like them, or anything that they stand for. Anyone thinking that fans would suddenly come flocking back into grounds because the OF has left is sadly deluded. 

And looking further afield at Europe. The German, Spanish and Italian leagues IMO would be poorer without the attraction of Bayern M, Real, Barcelona, Juventus and the 2 Milan clubs.
Most of these clubs have either won the vast majority of league titles, or share a duopoly without hope of any other club breaking their hold on it!

[Byyy The Light]

What frustrates the life out of me is the potential Scottish football has in its own right. It’s strangled by short term, backward looking people.

 

Rangers and Celtic are a massive asset to Scottish football and should be welcomed as part of a decent set up. The way it’s run at the moment for their benefit is killing the game. 

[Rogue Daddy]

3 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

What frustrates the life out of me is the potential Scottish football has in its own right. It’s strangled by short term, backward looking people.

 

Rangers and Celtic are a massive asset to Scottish football and should be welcomed as part of a decent set up. The way it’s run at the moment for their benefit is killing the game. 

100%  agree with this. I'm also for them leaving as I believe it would be the only way to actually get things changed.

 

Our current governing set-up is diabolical and incompetent at best... and only has the best interests of 2 clubs as their priority (which is obviously the way they want it.)

 

The whole thing needs stripped back to the bare bones and re-started from scratch... for everyone's best interests and not just the uglies. 

 

I would be happy to endure a few years of hardship in a Scottish league without the OF, if it meant we didn't have to endure another 40 years of dominance and pandering to them.

[DH1986]

If the OF did leave then the idea of them having Colt Teams or buying up a lower league club has to be quashed.

[Rogue Daddy]

4 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

If the OF did leave then the idea of them having Colt Teams or buying up a lower league club has to be quashed.

Absolutely.... this is obviously where they’re going with this - future proofing their options... and the spfl will fall over themselves to allow it to happen.