Stewart wallace and FOH representatives

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, kila said:

 

We really ought to challenge this.

 

FoH are funding the club while being told to shut up and sit down by Ann Budge. I think it is time the boat was rocked - her power to hire and fire the manager when only she sees fit is why we're in this mess. She is not a football person and never will be. The sooner she is removed from making any football decisions the better.

 

Wallace clearly happy to go along with whatever Budge tells him rather than challenging on behalf of a pissed off membership who are fed up with Neilson and the whole Levein era we're still living through. If he is talking pish in his response then he has to go.

 

Maybe due to the fact he seems to have be chosen for the role by Budge? She has surrounded herself with folk that are loyal to her no matter what?https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2017/01/wallace-to-join-tynecastle-board/amp/

Edited March 28, 2021 by Pasquale for King
Link

[Pasquale for King]

12 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Pledges since the start of 2020

 

	Total Pledges	Monthly Pledges
Jan-20	9,767,502
Feb-20	10,002,385	234,883	(two months)
Mar-20
Apr-20	10,122,599	120,214
May-20	10,244,072	121,473
Jun-20	10,382,057	137,985
Jul-20	10,537,301	155,244
Aug-20	10,681,578	144,277
Sep-20	10,826,380	144,802
Oct-20	10,968,978	142,598
Nov-20	11,112,411	143,433
Dec-20	11,264,610	152,199
Jan-21	11,552,182	287,572	(two months)
Feb-21
Mar-21	11,691,949	139,767

The total figure is interesting but the near 12k pledges caught my eye. 

[daavojaay]

12 hours ago, true-jambo said:

What an excellent post as usual from FF 

 

He has described the reasons behind the feelings of frustration and anger the vast majority of fans are harbouring toward the Boards of both the club and FOH. 

 

His view on the very long term decline in the Club's performance is expressed without all of the usual hyperbole and personal abuse used in some posts, and because of that it is all the more powerful.

 

It would interesting to read a counter argument from the few still clinging to supporting the continuation of AB, RN and possibly SW in situ

 

 

 

 

brilliant post spot on mate

[EIEIO]

18 hours ago, iainmac said:

Came across this interview with Stuart and found some interesting quotes. It seems he went in with good intentions wrt accountability. 

 

Ours was different. Once it was clear Ann was going to take over, everyone was working hand in hand.

“There has to be proper governance to hold each other accountable but we’re all after the same end game – and we’re trailblazing.

 

“A number of really important things have to be vested in the fans because they’re putting their money in, they’re expecting accountability.

 

We’ll ask healthy questions, we won’t be yes people but we’ll also ask them in a structured way.

 

Full article here:

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-foundation-hearts-chairman-stuart-10101625

 

Met the guy briefly a couple of times no doubting SW is a jambo however, the FoH have been asleep for 3 years now. Only thing I remember voting on was lowering the majority required to sell their/our shares. Currently part of the problem rather offering solutions.

[NANOJAMBO]

22 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

 

FOH really should produce a new funding model going forward.  It was one of my concerns in my response to the governance proposals that FOH had not proposed to set any figure for the proportion of pledges that would go to the club as donations, and conversely, how much FOH could retain for its own use.  (the current agreement had a 95%/5% split)

Great post FF.

Funnily enough we had a chat in this household re the future of FOH in the sense that it has achieved it's stated aim. So, what next ?

How does it continue ? It was  a rallying call & a flag to unite fans in the early, dark day, but now ? 

Does it need to ? - the cash has been raised to buy the club. Why are fans giving money to FOH when the cash could simply be given direct to the club - what is achieved by continuing to pledge through FOH  (I can't see any benefit because I don't see that FOH - as the major investor in SWs own words -have any further relevance or any part to play, if they ever did). 

Should it be doing more to increase pledges to avoid watching the initial band of donors dwindle. Indeed can it do anything other than attend board meetings, provide a basic website & basic comms material ? 

[NANOJAMBO]

15 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Met the guy briefly a couple of times no doubting SW is a jambo however, the FoH have been asleep for 3 years now. Only thing I remember voting on was lowering the majority required to sell their/our shares. Currently part of the problem rather offering solutions.

“There has to be proper governance to hold each other accountable but we’re all after the same end game – and we’re trailblazing.

 

How does the board of a company hold the major investors accountable ? 

We're pouring OUR money in - it's the board that are accountable to the bloody investors. 

More deference to a body that is dysfunctional and failing. 

 

[iainmac]

7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Great post FF.

Funnily enough we had a chat in this household re the future of FOH in the sense that it has achieved it's stated aim. So, what next ?

How does it continue ? It was  a rallying call & a flag to unite fans in the early, dark day, but now ? 

Does it need to ? - the cash has been raised to buy the club. Why are fans giving money to FOH when the cash could simply be given direct to the club - what is achieved by continuing to pledge through FOH  (I can't see any benefit because I don't see that FOH - as the major investor in SWs own words -have any further relevance or any part to play, if they ever did). 

Should it be doing more to increase pledges to avoid watching the initial band of donors dwindle. Indeed can it do anything other than attend board meetings, provide a basic website & basic comms material ? 

 

Believe it or not, it's supposed to give us a competitive advantage. 

 

Arbroath, Brora, QoS in the last week alone! 

[jr ewing]

The very definition of the word Cronyism.

Stuart Wallace who was not on the board in the first instance is suddenly appointed Chairman by none other than Ann Budge herself 

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Believe it or not, it's supposed to give us a competitive advantage. 

 

Arbroath, Brora, QoS in the last week alone! 

Imagine if they put that in the FOH mission statement 😄

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

The very definition of the word Cronyism.

Stuart Wallace who was not on the board in the first instance is suddenly appointed Chairman by none other than Ann Budge herself 

Certain dots are starting to join together tbf

[jr ewing]

Surely anyone in doubt must be suspending their contributions until we get to the bottom of all of this.

[davemclaren]

13 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

“There has to be proper governance to hold each other accountable but we’re all after the same end game – and we’re trailblazing.

 

How does the board of a company hold the major investors accountable ? 

We're pouring OUR money in - it's the board that are accountable to the bloody investors. 

More deference to a body that is dysfunctional and failing. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Great post FF.

Funnily enough we had a chat in this household re the future of FOH in the sense that it has achieved it's stated aim. So, what next ?

How does it continue ? It was  a rallying call & a flag to unite fans in the early, dark day, but now ? 

Does it need to ? - the cash has been raised to buy the club. Why are fans giving money to FOH when the cash could simply be given direct to the club - what is achieved by continuing to pledge through FOH  (I can't see any benefit because I don't see that FOH - as the major investor in SWs own words -have any further relevance or any part to play, if they ever did). 

Should it be doing more to increase pledges to avoid watching the initial band of donors dwindle. Indeed can it do anything other than attend board meetings, provide a basic website & basic comms material ? 

I think FoH has to continue to actually hold the shares for its members. Whether there is any advantage in continuing to be a conduit for donations, as opposed to donating direct to the club, may depend on tax issues, but not sure. 

[NANOJAMBO]

18 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Great post FF.

Funnily enough we had a chat in this household re the future of FOH in the sense that it has achieved it's stated aim. So, what next ?

How does it continue ? It was  a rallying call & a flag to unite fans in the early, dark day, but now ? 

Does it need to ? - the cash has been raised to buy the club. Why are fans giving money to FOH when the cash could simply be given direct to the club - what is achieved by continuing to pledge through FOH  (I can't see any benefit because I don't see that FOH - as the major investor in SWs own words -have any further relevance or any part to play, if they ever did). 

Should it be doing more to increase pledges to avoid watching the initial band of donors dwindle. Indeed can it do anything other than attend board meetings, provide a basic website & basic comms material ? 

What I wasn't going to put in to my original post I have now decided to.

 

IMO all that has happened is that a legal entity was set up to collect money to buy what is effectively a majority shareholding in a football club (except , of course, it doesn't come with the voting rights  that  being a majority shareholding does).

What we have now (or will have soon) is ownership of a business over which we have no control or even a little influence but will be in the control of what is effectively a minority shareholder (guess who)  who is at the very heart of the failings of the business. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

 

I think FoH has to continue to actually hold the shares for its members. Whether there is any advantage in continuing to be a conduit for donations, as opposed to donating direct to the club, may depend on tax issues, but not sure. 

That's my question. 

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Great post FF.

Funnily enough we had a chat in this household re the future of FOH in the sense that it has achieved it's stated aim. So, what next ?

How does it continue ? It was  a rallying call & a flag to unite fans in the early, dark day, but now ? 

Does it need to ? - the cash has been raised to buy the club. Why are fans giving money to FOH when the cash could simply be given direct to the club - what is achieved by continuing to pledge through FOH  (I can't see any benefit because I don't see that FOH - as the major investor in SWs own words -have any further relevance or any part to play, if they ever did). 

Should it be doing more to increase pledges to avoid watching the initial band of donors dwindle. Indeed can it do anything other than attend board meetings, provide a basic website & basic comms material ? 

I had all the same questions.  I suggested creating a new entity, a Foundation Trust to own the shares on behalf of all Hearts supporters (FOH pledgers, ST Holders, juniors, ex pats, local businesses) for the long term benefit of the Hearts community.  Membership of the Trust would be conferred on reaching a threshold of donations via FOH or other means, and would be for life.  FOH would be left to continue with the sole aim of raising cash, "pledge for life" etc.  Those who continued to pledge would be able to direct how their pledges would be used. I'd also suggested that FOH morph into a club membership scheme to widen its appeal across all fan groups and ages.

 

With the two shareholding/fundraising entities, it would be the Trust that would "own" the club and be represented on the Club Board on behalf of all Hearts fans.  If my suggestion had been agreed, then it would have created a separation between pledges and ownership and would, in my opinion, lessen the likelihood of cancelled pledges in the current scenario. 

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That's my question. 

I know and I think it’s a good question. 

[EIEIO]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

 

I think FoH has to continue to actually hold the shares for its members. Whether there is any advantage in continuing to be a conduit for donations, as opposed to donating direct to the club, may depend on tax issues, but not sure. 

Think SW first became involved with FoH when he advised them  that donations could be made tax free. This is mentioned in Ian Murray book on FoH. Presumably under the previous model they weren't tax free. I'm not sure how we can donate to a PLC without paying tax. SW would know though.

[jr ewing]

19 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Certain dots are starting to join together tbf

This is looking like an episode of Line of Duty. Who's H?

[EIEIO]

5 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I had all the same questions.  I suggested creating a new entity, a Foundation Trust to own the shares on behalf of all Hearts supporters (FOH pledgers, ST Holders, juniors, ex pats, local businesses) for the long term benefit of the Hearts community.  Membership of the Trust would be conferred on reaching a threshold of donations via FOH or other means, and would be for life.  FOH would be left to continue with the sole aim of raising cash, "pledge for life" etc.  Those who continued to pledge would be able to direct how their pledges would be used. I'd also suggested that FOH morph into a club membership scheme to widen its appeal across all fan groups and ages.

 

With the two shareholding/fundraising entities, it would be the Trust that would "own" the club and be represented on the Club Board on behalf of all Hearts fans.  If my suggestion had been agreed, then it would have created a separation between pledges and ownership and would, in my opinion, lessen the likelihood of cancelled pledges in the current scenario. 

Sounds like a far better option than the closed shop we have now. Can the FoH cargo ship stuck in the canal be turned around though?

[David Black]

34 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Great post FF.

Funnily enough we had a chat in this household re the future of FOH in the sense that it has achieved it's stated aim. So, what next ?

How does it continue ? It was  a rallying call & a flag to unite fans in the early, dark day, but now ? 

Does it need to ? - the cash has been raised to buy the club. Why are fans giving money to FOH when the cash could simply be given direct to the club - what is achieved by continuing to pledge through FOH  (I can't see any benefit because I don't see that FOH - as the major investor in SWs own words -have any further relevance or any part to play, if they ever did). 

Should it be doing more to increase pledges to avoid watching the initial band of donors dwindle. Indeed can it do anything other than attend board meetings, provide a basic website & basic comms material ? 

Apparently we cannot donate directly to a Limited Company, which we are. Dave Mac gave this info to various posts I have made re the further need for FOH after handover. I haven't a clue if this is right or wrong. Maybe FF could confirm. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Garry Halliday going to be on sportsound tonight at 6.30pm

[milky_26]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Garry Halliday going to be on sportsound tonight at 6.30pm

whi is garry halliday?

[kila]

 

 

 

 

[EIEIO]

1 minute ago, milky_26 said:

whi is garry halliday?

Only guy on  FoH committee who isn't a labor an accountant.

[EIEIO]

Just now, EIEIO said:

Only guy on  FoH committee who isn't a lawyer an accountant.

 

[kila]

Strong leadership from Wallace.

 

[flem]

3 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

whi is garry halliday?

Andy Halliday’s Cousin. 

[18Jambo_dave74]

Wallace still in hiding then. Perhaps he's too busy on the golf course with our CEO. 

[Pasquale for King]

On 27/03/2021 at 20:26, Hashimoto said:

I see where you are coming from However, slight difference in that Fedatovas was directly employed by Romanov. Therefore had a moral obligation to support the guy that essentially paid his wages.

Wallace is not (supposedly!) on Budge's payroll. His remit and job description is quite simple actually and that is to represent the views of the people who elected him into a position of influence. No matter how unpalatable those views might be!

We have never once in the history of FoH heard anything, especially from Wallace that runs counter to those of Ann Budge.
And that is a worrying scenario for those paying £m's into a fund where there is no voice heard.

 

Fair point, he’s supposed to represent us not the board. 

[iainmac]

3 minutes ago, kila said:

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting that Garry is being shoved forward instead of one of the PwC gang. 

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, David Black said:

Apparently we cannot donate directly to a Limited Company, which we are. Dave Mac gave this info to various posts I have made re the further need for FOH after handover. I haven't a clue if this is right or wrong. Maybe FF could confirm. 

If you read that thread there was debate about that but I do remember it being touted as a benefit of FoH. So now, I’m not so sure if we need FoH to avoid paying VAT. We need a taxation guru...

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Interesting that Garry is being shoved forward instead of one of the PwC gang. 

I thought that was interesting as well. 

[Weebroon98]

This could be make or break for a few pledgers tonight if they don't like what they hear from the FOH

Edited March 29, 2021 by Weebroon98

[Footballfirst]

15 minutes ago, David Black said:

Apparently we cannot donate directly to a Limited Company, which we are. Dave Mac gave this info to various posts I have made re the further need for FOH after handover. I haven't a clue if this is right or wrong. Maybe FF could confirm. 

As far as I am aware there is no restriction of "donations" just as long as you don't get anything in return, e.g. shares, tangible goods, or a service.

 

The same applies to the Club and its donations from James Anderson and friends.

 

Edit: FFP rules for clubs in UEFA competitions effectively restrict donations to cover recurring losses, because of the limits imposed on losses, otherwise you might get Sheik Aleg throwing limitless amounts of cash into clubs.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Footballfirst

[iainmac]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I thought that was interesting as well. 

 

Someone has calculated that Garry is more likely to be "in touch" with the ordinary fan. 

[shaun.lawson]

Earlier in the thread, a lot of people noted Wallace's weird comments re: Twitter etc. I really, really recommend a listen to the podcast those comments were made on. 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/no-ties-in-the-boardroom/id1518389968?i=1000488009624

 

Start listening just before 1h 40m. Wallace is on for about 20 minutes. The reason it's so insightful is there is a massive chasm between what we as fans assume he's there for on the board - and what he thinks he's there to do.

 

Nothing in what he says suggests 'cronyism', jobs for the boys or anything like that. But it does suggest that the FOH are not allowed to question Budge in any serious way - which is quite extraordinary.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Someone has calculated that Garry is more likely to be "in touch" with the ordinary fan. 

My first thoughts as well. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

Earlier in the thread, a lot of people noted Wallace's weird comments re: Twitter etc. I really, really recommend a listen to the podcast those comments were made on. 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/no-ties-in-the-boardroom/id1518389968?i=1000488009624

 

Start listening just before 1h 40m. Wallace is on for about 20 minutes. The reason it's so insightful is there is a massive chasm between what we as fans assume he's there for on the board - and what he thinks he's there to do.

 

Nothing in what he says suggests 'cronyism', jobs for the boys or anything like that. But it does suggest that the FOH are not allowed to question Budge in any serious way - which is quite extraordinary.

I listened to that section last week. It was quite enlightening. 

[kila]

Garry Halliday is related to Andy Halliday 🤣

 

He's going to the slate the club right enough! This'll be more PR bullshit.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by kila

[iainmac]

Just now, davemclaren said:

My first thoughts as well. 

 

It'll be the same person that makes all of  the decisions around here. 

[iainmac]

Just now, kila said:

Garry Halliday is Andy Halliday's uncle 🤣

 

He's going to the slate the club right enough! This'll be more PR bullshit.

 

 

 

I don't think that's accurate. 

 

I'm not 100% but I think Andy's Dad is Garry's Cousin. 

[Hashimoto]

I just get the feeling this BBC Sportsound interview has PR disaster written all over it.

Nothing less than a clear precise message from FoH that Neilson has to go will placate an already inflamed situation.

Please just don't give us that "everyone is working flat out to sort the mess out including the manager" nonsense.

Neilson Out  

 

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I listened to that section last week. It was quite enlightening. 

 

My conclusion is he's completely powerless - and we're probably barking up the wrong tree by singling him out.

 

Bizarre state of affairs, to say the least.

[David Black]

10 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

As far as I am aware there is no restriction of "donations" just as long as you don't get anything in return, e.g. shares, tangible goods, or a service.

 

The same applies to the Club and its donations from James Anderson and friends.

 

Edit: FFP rules for clubs in UEFA competitions effectively restrict donations to cover recurring losses, because of the limits imposed on losses, otherwise you might get Sheik Aleg throwing limitless amounts of cash into clubs.

Thanks FF.

[kila]

Just now, iainmac said:

 

I don't think that's accurate. 

 

I'm not 100% but I think Andy's Dad is Garry's Cousin. 

 

Ah you're right:

 

"Garry Halliday, a founding member of FoH, is the cousin of Andy’s father and spent considerable time in recent weeks trying to sway the player towards Gorgie."

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/andy-halliday-reveals-he-related-foundation-hearts-director-who-was-overjoyed-new-signing-2987200

 

 

[jr ewing]

So he's H?

[merrymac]

Just now, jr ewing said:

So he's H?

It was certainly in his "Line of Duty" to get Andy to sign

[David Black]

16 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

If you read that thread there was debate about that but I do remember it being touted as a benefit of FoH. So now, I’m not so sure if we need FoH to avoid paying VAT. We need a taxation guru...

If my memory serves me correctly, I'm sure it has been covered in the past that the reason we contribute to FOH as opposed to directly to the club, was not a tax issue. I could be wrong and totally misunderstood what was said.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

One of the points of the initial FOH/Bidco agreement was that Bidco (Ann) had power of veto over any FOH director. Ian Murray mentions in his book that Ann presented her conditions as non negotiable rather than an agreement to be reached.

 

As far as I’m aware Ann has never exercised that power. I’d presume that will lapse once the share transfer is complete (unless that’s a condition of her recent loan)

 

Not convinced there’s any conspiracy with Halliday being put forward. Wallace and Cummings will be bound by their duties of confidentiality as directors of Hearts. Gary can be more open

[Newton51]

Gary Halliday on sportsound at 630 pm