Sarah Everard (Missing Woman)

[Auldbenches]

Just now, Lone Striker said:

I think they'd need a lot longer than  a half hour to cover every stabbing/shooting, murder, missing person etc that had happened in the UK that day.     Not sure why making the 6pm or 10pm national (UK) news matters, unless you're a Scot living in England - even then, you can watch all the Scottish news on iPlayer etc.    

 

I take your point when it comes to  Crimewatch UK though (an hour long program once a month I think) - there's no way  it can fit in  all the serious  incidents  which the police across the UK would want help with.   Might be sensible to break that down by geographic area - a Crimewatch Scotland version for example.  The whole point of it is to seek the public's help in solving serious crimes.

My point is that the London violent crimes make the national news and not just the local news like in other places.  

I agree about crime watch.  How many crimes does it solve?  The money spent on producing it would probably be better going to the police etc and they'd get more results from it.   

[i8hibsh]

23 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I think it is safe to say that most women we be at the outset more trusting of a serving male police officer than  alot of other males, especially those that are not police officers.

 

 

That is a whole different angle though.  Every woman and child should be in the safest hands with our police forces, but every woman and child should also be in the safest hands with husbands, brothers, uncles, friends, employees, colleagues, teachers and fathers.  Sometimes, sadly they are let down.  It pains me and it utterly stinks but murder is murder.  Whether you are shot in the head or stabbed through the heart it should be treated the same in the eyes of the law.

 

This whole thing  seems to be giving a ranking system to it all.

 

Was James Bulger's murder and the murders of Jesssica Chapman and Holly Wells more serious than the murder of a child that never made the news?

 

More shocking of course but not anymore/less serious.

Edited September 30, 2021 by i8hibsh

[John Findlay]

19 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

That is a whole different angle though.  Every woman and child should be in the safest hands with our police forces, but every woman and child should also be in the safest hands with husbands, brothers, uncles, friends, employees, colleagues, teachers and fathers.  Sometimes, sadly they are let down.  It pains me and it utterly stinks but murder is murder.  Whether you are shot in the head or stabbed through the heart it should be treated the same in the eyes of the law.

 

This whole thing  seems to be giving a ranking system to it all.

 

Was James Bulger's murder and the murders of Jesssica Chapman and Holly Wells more serious than the murder of a child that never made the news?

 

More shocking of course but not anymore/less serious.

All murders are shocking, out of all you quoted above I personally would say the James Bulger was the most shocking of them all. To be fair to Merseyside police it didn't take them long to arrest Thompson and Venables.

I suspect the Met in this instance were very keen to make an arrest and get the maximum publicity for doing so seeing as the perpetrator was one of their own, and they knew it would get alot more media exposure across the board for this very fact.

[i8hibsh]

11 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

 

I suspect the Met in this instance were very keen to make an arrest and get the maximum publicity for doing so seeing as the perpetrator was one of their own

 

 

Without a doubt.  By all accounts the investigative process was flawless.

 

I am of no doubt that the vast majority of the force are good cops and take this very personally.

[John Findlay]

10 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Without a doubt.  By all accounts the investigative process was flawless.

 

I am of no doubt that the vast majority of the force are good cops and take this very personally.

Agreed.

[Don Dan]

I can’t for the life of me think what is going in the mind of people like Cousins. 
ive watch numerous programmes about his kind where they try to explain the mind set but at the end of the day my conclusion is they are just pure evil and consequences mean nothing to them. 

[Cade]

Also today, a woman won a tribunal case against the Metropolitan Police as part of the spy cops sex scandal.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

I can’t for the life of me think what is going in the mind of people like Cousins. 
ive watch numerous programmes about his kind where they try to explain the mind set but at the end of the day my conclusion is they are just pure evil and consequences mean nothing to them. 

 

It's in his mind.

 

But mainly his sexual impulses. Which is more powerful than anything else.

 

I think its impossible to prevent completely but there has to be more attention to the early warning signs which seem to have existed at his job. 

[Auldbenches]

Harriet Harman is calling for Clarissa Dick to be sacked for this.  I know they are calling for her head due to the last few years but what has she done wrong in relation to this case?

 

[jack D and coke]

54 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

I can’t for the life of me think what is going in the mind of people like Cousins. 
ive watch numerous programmes about his kind where they try to explain the mind set but at the end of the day my conclusion is they are just pure evil and consequences mean nothing to them. 

You do wonder what possesses someone to be so evil. 

All other things aside her mums statement was a tough read. Her life is over too I can’t see how you ever get over something like this. It must be living hell. 
I don’t know what I think an appropriate sentence is for this stuff. Or even worse to a child. 
Animals don’t do these things. 

[Savage Vince]

8 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

A life lost at Hillsborough for example was worth more than lost at Bradford.

 

The only thing this is an example of is how your warped mind works. 

[Lone Striker]

5 hours ago, Auldbenches said:

Harriet Harman is calling for Clarissa Dick to be sacked for this.  I know they are calling for her head due to the last few years but what has she done wrong in relation to this case?

 

Probably the number of scandals/failures that the Met has been involved in over the last few years.   She's already survived quite a few calls for her to resign over these.    The revelations about inappropriate Whatsapp group messages within the Met  seems to suggest there's a   "lad culture" among some male officers towards women in general, including female officers.    It'll take seriously strong leadership to  turn this (and any residual racism) around.   

 

 

[Haken]

Arguing about levels of news coverage.

 

The sentence isn't so much about the 'severity'; it's more about the threat presented.  This particular murder has been shown to have been a premeditated and calculated crime which included a deliberate and damaging abuse of authority.  The actual crime is then followed by a series of actions aimed at destroying the evidence and indicative of the behaviour of someone who knew exactly what they were doing.

[Auldbenches]

8 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Probably the number of scandals/failures that the Met has been involved in over the last few years.   She's already survived quite a few calls for her to resign over these.    The revelations about inappropriate Whatsapp group messages within the Met  seems to suggest there's a   "lad culture" among some male officers towards women in general, including female officers.    It'll take seriously strong leadership to  turn this (and any residual racism) around.   

 

 

She has been terrible and there wouldn't be as many people wanting her sacked.  I'm just not sure what she done wrong with this case that Harriet Harman thinks she should resign for it.  

I thought the met had been given credit for how they went about it. 

Harmen is calling for her heard regarding this case. 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

Life should always mean life. Especially for murder.

Glad to see justice was served here.

[Riccarton3]

Full life sentence shouldn't stop the Police looking at Couzens for other offences and looking at other Officers. That should be the focus now.

[Herbert.]

They were talking about this on Jeremy vine yesterday and it was getting turned into a all men are evil campaign. 

[Riccarton3]

20 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Great news that vile piece of shit will be behind bars for life, but it begs the question with me - what makes this case so special?

 

I believe that any cold-blooded murderer should never be released but the reality is that they almost always are eligible for it.

 

What made this case worse than others?  Why was Sarah Everard so special?

 

I don't mean that to sound callous, but people are murdered all the time, yes not by serving police officers but cold-blooded murder is cold-blooded murder and life should mean life for all the perpetrators of them.

 

As per usual, as a society we pick and choose what cases will get the most column inches.  What made Madelaine McCann so special?  Children go missing all the time.

 

We saw it last year with George Floyd too.  Why do certain cases of crime etc get more column inches than others? 

 

It is not just murder but natural disasters, car crashes, plane crashes, terrorist attacks, catastrophes etc.

 

A life lost at Hillsborough for example was worth more than lost at Bradford.

 

It sucks but great news on this and justice has been served  - just a shame most of the time it is not served as it should be.

There are certain cases that shake the institutions of power. Their protection is deemed of greater importance than anything.

[AlimOzturk]

20 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Great news that vile piece of shit will be behind bars for life, but it begs the question with me - what makes this case so special?

 

I believe that any cold-blooded murderer should never be released but the reality is that they almost always are eligible for it.

 

What made this case worse than others?  Why was Sarah Everard so special?

 

I don't mean that to sound callous, but people are murdered all the time, yes not by serving police officers but cold-blooded murder is cold-blooded murder and life should mean life for all the perpetrators of them.

 

As per usual, as a society we pick and choose what cases will get the most column inches.  What made Madelaine McCann so special?  Children go missing all the time.

 

We saw it last year with George Floyd too.  Why do certain cases of crime etc get more column inches than others? 

 

It is not just murder but natural disasters, car crashes, plane crashes, terrorist attacks, catastrophes etc.

 

A life lost at Hillsborough for example was worth more than lost at Bradford.

 

It sucks but great news on this and justice has been served  - just a shame most of the time it is not served as it should be.

There is a theory that white, middle/upper class women get far more attention than any other other category of the human race when it comes to crimes against them. The same crime for example happening to a white male would not get the same attention despite it being just a heinous. 
 

[CF11JamTart]

3 hours ago, Auldbenches said:

She has been terrible and there wouldn't be as many people wanting her sacked.  I'm just not sure what she done wrong with this case that Harriet Harman thinks she should resign for it.  

I thought the met had been given credit for how they went about it. 

Harmen is calling for her heard regarding this case. 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58514848

 

I guess there's an overall question about the state of Met, and whether she's the person who can turn it around. 

 

Probably nothing specific to this case, but broader questions about sexism, misogyny, racism in the organisation that she leads. And the question of whether it's "a few bad apples" or a systemic problem. 

 

 

 

[Cade]

The Met is completely rotten from top to bottom.

 

 

[Auldbenches]

3 hours ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58514848

 

I guess there's an overall question about the state of Met, and whether she's the person who can turn it around. 

 

Probably nothing specific to this case, but broader questions about sexism, misogyny, racism in the organisation that she leads. And the question of whether it's "a few bad apples" or a systemic problem. 

 

 

 

She is terrible.  I suppose the specific criticism here is that there were signs that he was already crossing lines and her system didn't pick up on it or didn't try.  

This will get the whole system bucking up their ideas.  

Trust in the police will take ages and it's the decent ones who'll get the blame as well.  though if they try to do anything,  they are seen as whistle blowers   

[Lone Striker]

5 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

There is a theory that white, middle/upper class women get far more attention than any other other category of the human race when it comes to crimes against them. The same crime for example happening to a white male would not get the same attention despite it being just a heinous. 
 

Its also possible (maybe even likely) that the photos of Sarah which showed her as a very attractive happy young lady  had something to do with the crime receiving such media attention long before Couzens became a suspect.   Hard to say how the crime would have been reported if the victim had looked like Waynetta Slob. 😲

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

The Met is completely rotten from top to bottom.

 

 

Really.

[luckyBatistuta]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

The Met is completely rotten from top to bottom.

 

 

Ridiculous post, just bang the keys🙄

[CostaJambo]

Whenever Cressida Dick is in the news I can't help thinking of when she came up on Pointless and some boy called her "Caressa Dick"! Poor Alexander was struggling to keep the laughter in!

[ArcticJambo]

26 minutes ago, CostaJambo said:

Whenever Cressida Dick is in the news I can't help thinking of when she came up on Pointless and some boy called her "Caressa Dick"! Poor Alexander was struggling to keep the laughter in!

 .... of this ...

 

[Ulysses]

8 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

There is a theory that white, middle/upper class women get far more attention than any other other category of the human race when it comes to crimes against them. The same crime for example happening to a white male would not get the same attention despite it being just a heinous. 
 

 

You carry on there and list the cases of white males who were unlawfully arrested by a serving cop, handcuffed, taken somewhere remote, raped, burned and their bodies dumped, and then we'll compare the reporting.

[Savage Vince]

4 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Its also possible (maybe even likely) that the photos of Sarah which showed her as a very attractive happy young lady  had something to do with the crime receiving such media attention long before Couzens became a suspect.   Hard to say how the crime would have been reported if the victim had looked like Waynetta Slob. 😲

 

 

 

The state of this. 

[Helzibob]

2 hours ago, CostaJambo said:

Whenever Cressida Dick is in the news I can't help thinking of when she came up on Pointless and some boy called her "Caressa Dick"! Poor Alexander was struggling to keep the laughter in!

I still call her that after seeing pointless. 😂 

[NANOJAMBO]

[AlphonseCapone]

On 30/09/2021 at 13:29, i8hibsh said:

 

 

It is a shocking case but in no way more serious than any other cold blooded murder and rape.

 

Unless you wish to argue with other bereaved parents on the matter Homme?

 

The reason for the sentence on this one, according to the judge himself, was because the guy manipulated his authority and position of power to carry out the crime. Whole life sentences can apply to select types of murder, and within law there are differences in types of murder, for example those involving terrorism or other ideological motivations. Because police officers are a function of the state bestowed with incredible levels of power and authority to keep the public safe and uphold societal order then the judge deemed this as not only the murder of an innocent citizen but an attack on democracy through the damage it has done to the police's reputation and impact that could have on their ability to perform their important function. The whole life sentence law allows flexibility for judges for cases that weren't even conceived of when the law was written. 

 

So all murder is serious, but there are different types of murder, and murder is classified by the state on criteria that goes beyond simply taking another person's life. 

[Kiwidoug]

Horror crime.  Brilliant sentence.

[Mikey1874]

10 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

The reason for the sentence on this one, according to the judge himself, was because the guy manipulated his authority and position of power to carry out the crime. Whole life sentences can apply to select types of murder, and within law there are differences in types of murder, for example those involving terrorism or other ideological motivations. Because police officers are a function of the state bestowed with incredible levels of power and authority to keep the public safe and uphold societal order then the judge deemed this as not only the murder of an innocent citizen but an attack on democracy through the damage it has done to the police's reputation and impact that could have on their ability to perform their important function. The whole life sentence law allows flexibility for judges for cases that weren't even conceived of when the law was written. 

 

So all murder is serious, but there are different types of murder, and murder is classified by the state on criteria that goes beyond simply taking another person's life. 

 

Full sentencing explanation here. There are some other interesting remarks about the case too. 

 

 

[CF11JamTart]

43 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Full sentencing explanation here. There are some other interesting remarks about the case too. 

 

 

Wow. Thanks for sharing that. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Full sentencing explanation here. There are some other interesting remarks about the case too. 

 

 

Thanks for that.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Full sentencing explanation here. There are some other interesting remarks about the case too. 

 

 

"He has no prior previous convictions and some of his colleagues have spoken supportively of him."

 

"It cannot be suggested in my view that the Metropolitan Police, even for a moment, attempted to close ranks to protect one of their own"

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

"He has no prior previous convictions and some of his colleagues have spoken supportively of him."

 

"It cannot be suggested in my view that the Metropolitan Police, even for a moment, attempted to close ranks to protect one of their own"

The bit in bold is quite mind boggling.

[dobmisterdobster]

19 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

You carry on there and list the cases of white males who were unlawfully arrested by a serving cop, handcuffed, taken somewhere remote, raped, burned and their bodies dumped, and then we'll compare the reporting.

 

Is there an epidemic of undercover police officers abducting and murdering women in the grand scheme of things?

 

The amount of knee-jerk reactions I have seen regarding "police reform" is ridiculous.

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The bit in bold is quite mind boggling.

Indeed. 

He also said something like the poor lass "was wholly blameless" - although I'm not sure to what extent (if any) one could be in any way not be a "wholly blameless" victim of rape & murder. 

 

What I'm interested in is that the judge makes no comment about the Met in the time prior to his conviction. No mention of missed opportunities, the lack of vetting. He very carefully avoided all of this - which is quite something given there is currently a criminal investigation of two officers into their handling of the indecent exposure allegations . Maybe there's something about it elsewhere, TBF. 

[I P Knightley]

12 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

The reason for the sentence on this one, according to the judge himself, was because the guy manipulated his authority and position of power to carry out the crime. Whole life sentences can apply to select types of murder, and within law there are differences in types of murder, for example those involving terrorism or other ideological motivations. Because police officers are a function of the state bestowed with incredible levels of power and authority to keep the public safe and uphold societal order then the judge deemed this as not only the murder of an innocent citizen but an attack on democracy through the damage it has done to the police's reputation and impact that could have on their ability to perform their important function. The whole life sentence law allows flexibility for judges for cases that weren't even conceived of when the law was written. 

 

So all murder is serious, but there are different types of murder, and murder is classified by the state on criteria that goes beyond simply taking another person's life. 

The sentencing notes are a fascinating read. I'd found myself beginning to side with @i8hibsh in the view that a murder's a murder's a murder but when you read from paragraph 16 on, you realise that (as ever) there are nuances and subtleties that must be taken into account.

 

I would fear that this being an exceptional case leaves the door open for an appeal against the sentence but I can't imagine that Couzens or his lawyers would be so unaware that they would start to think that that was a good idea.

[I P Knightley]

27 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

"He has no prior previous convictions and some of his colleagues have spoken supportively of him."

 

"It cannot be suggested in my view that the Metropolitan Police, even for a moment, attempted to close ranks to protect one of their own"

I hope you're not trying to suggest that those are contradictory statements.

 

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Indeed. 

He also said something like the poor lass "was wholly blameless" - although I'm not sure to what extent (if any) one could be in any way not be a "wholly blameless" victim of rape & murder. 

 

What I'm interested in is that the judge makes no comment about the Met in the time prior to his conviction. No mention of missed opportunities, the lack of vetting. He very carefully avoided all of this - which is quite something given there is currently a criminal investigation of two officers into their handling of the indecent exposure allegations . Maybe there's something about it elsewhere, TBF. 

Doing so would be veering quite some distance from the objective of the notes. The Met's activities or flaws have nothing to do with Couzens' sentence.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

I hope you're not trying to suggest that those are contradictory statements.

 

Doing so would be veering quite some distance from the objective of the notes. The Met's activities or flaws have nothing to do with Couzens' sentence.

I never linked the two. Just two parts I found interesting. 

 

I also made reference to perhaps the judge has mentioned it elsewhere (perhaps not) in the procedding so I don't need a lecture on sentencing, thanks. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Indeed. 

He also said something like the poor lass "was wholly blameless" - although I'm not sure to what extent (if any) one could be in any way not be a "wholly blameless" victim of rape & murder. 

 

What I'm interested in is that the judge makes no comment about the Met in the time prior to his conviction. No mention of missed opportunities, the lack of vetting. He very carefully avoided all of this - which is quite something given there is currently a criminal investigation of two officers into their handling of the indecent exposure allegations . Maybe there's something about it elsewhere, TBF. 

I understand your take on it.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

47 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

"He has no prior previous convictions and some of his colleagues have spoken supportively of him."

 

"It cannot be suggested in my view that the Metropolitan Police, even for a moment, attempted to close ranks to protect one of their own"

 

Sure I heard them say something about a Whatsapp group with 5 other officers, could have been them who spoke up for him.

Needless to say they will be under investgation now as well.

[I P Knightley]

17 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I never linked the two. Just two parts I found interesting. 

 

I also made reference to perhaps the judge has mentioned it elsewhere (perhaps not) in the procedding so I don't need a lecture on sentencing, thanks. 

Christ, someone's touchy!

[NANOJAMBO]

8 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Christ, someone's touchy!

"I hope you're not trying to suggest that those are contradictory statements."

 

Maybe choose your words better.

[dobmisterdobster]

Those of you with an axe to grind should read this.

 

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

"I hope you're not trying to suggest that those are contradictory statements."

 

Maybe choose your words better.

Maybe if you want to communicate something, you should use sentences and words that make the meaning clear. Two quotes side by side and I'm expected to work out what your meaning is? Sorry I'm not a mind reader.

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Maybe if you want to communicate something, you should use sentences and words that make the meaning clear. Two quotes side by side and I'm expected to work out what your meaning is? Sorry I'm not a mind reader.

Take your  patronising,  "I hope you're not" chat  and  shove it.