***** Official Hearts v Dundee Match Thread *****

[Byyy The Light]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s why I said one of the reasons. Those guys were good at the time though. Sergio is still more progressive than our current manager if the training videos are anything to go by. 
Who do you fancy as manager, I can’t say there’s many outstanding candidates that I know of. 

Other manager I genuinely have no clue. Nobody realistic jumps out. I find the whole thing a bit depressing. I was behind the Cathro and Stendel stuff but that just never worked. Same as Paul Le Guen at Rangers and John Collins trying to put certain standards in to Hibs. I’m desperate for somebody somewhere to come in and push Scottish football forward. We’ve proved we’re not willing to persevere with it

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Byyy The Light said:

Other manager I genuinely have no clue. Nobody realistic jumps out. I find the whole thing a bit depressing. I was behind the Cathro and Stendel stuff but that just never worked. Same as Paul Le Guen at Rangers and John Collins trying to put certain standards in to Hibs. I’m desperate for somebody somewhere to come in and push Scottish football forward. We’ve proved we’re not willing to persevere with it

I think in the right circumstances Stendel would’ve come good, I love that style of play. 
I think Rodgers brought a fantastic style of football with him, as he has at Liverpool and now Leicester,can’t stand the wee lying ******* but he took them to a different level. Gerrard has eventually succeeded too, they seem well suited to playing in Europe and he’s now got the best record of any of their managers at that level. 
I think we need an overhaul, Norwich have a great strategy that’s working well for them. With Brexit kicking in it will be harder to get Foreign managers, and players moving forward. 
https://trainingground.guru/articles/stuart-webber-norwich-city-and-the-infinite-game

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I can’t imagine for a minute he thinks he can even keep us in the Premiership with the current central defence. Fingers crossed on Souttar which solves one position and Halkett okay for back up but we might need two top central defenders signed. I’m not 100% convinced about us at full back either (defensively)

We can’t rely on Souttar, he tried that last summer and ended up scrambling about and ending up with Popescu. We need two really as Halkett is just a backup, he or Popescu can go on loan if we get two new guys and can be recalled in January if Souttar breaks down. 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We can’t rely on Souttar, he tried that last summer and ended up scrambling about and ending up with Popescu. We need two really as Halkett is just a backup, he or Popescu can go on loan if we get two new guys and can be recalled in January if Souttar breaks down. 

 

Good post.

[Byyy The Light]

16 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think in the right circumstances Stendel would’ve come good, I love that style of play. 
I think Rodgers brought a fantastic style of football with him, as he has at Liverpool and now Leicester,can’t stand the wee lying ******* but he took them to a different level. Gerrard has eventually succeeded too, they seem well suited to playing in Europe and he’s now got the best record of any of their managers at that level. 
I think we need an overhaul, Norwich have a great strategy that’s working well for them. With Brexit kicking in it will be harder to get Foreign managers, and players moving forward. 
https://trainingground.guru/articles/stuart-webber-norwich-city-and-the-infinite-game

I think we all would love that style of play. Rodgers is a world class manager.

 

We don’t have good enough players. That’s the reality check. The manager can come up with all the Pro license drills and tactics they want but when a player gets the ball, miscontrols it and can’t play the next pass in the phase they practiced in training. Then everyone starts looking silly pretty fast. Players don’t like getting found out either so will probably tell their pals the training is shit rather than they can’t do it. 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

I think we all would love that style of play. Rodgers is a world class manager.

 

We don’t have good enough players. That’s the reality check. The manager can come up with all the Pro license drills and tactics they want but when a player gets the ball, miscontrols it and can’t play the next pass in the phase they practiced in training. Then everyone starts looking silly pretty fast. Players don’t like getting found out either so will probably tell their pals the training is shit rather than they can’t do it. 

Players can improve with the correct training, Rodgers improved most of the Scots at Celtic including trying to get Griffiths to link the play not just get it and shoot. Look at the difference eventually in Ian Black, who had the best 6 months of his career under Sergio. Look at the difference if a few players under Stendel. I don’t see that under Neilson so far. 
Who knows what the future holds but our GK might just use his knowledge gleaned from Rodgers and others if he wants to go down that route. He would certain be respected by senior figures in the dressing room. Naismith might also be another that leads us in the future. 

[rubyruby]

Its karma 😁

[GinRummy]

43 minutes ago, rubyruby said:

Its karma 😁

You’ve missed out the bit about Nelms acting in the ‘best interests of Scottish football’. 

[MCW1976]

14 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

Aberdeen still 4th, have scored 1 goal in the last 9 games, at home to rank rotten Kilmarnock 

 

That stat proves just how bad Scottish football is. That stat proves just how unbelievably bad we are.

[MCW1976]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s why I said one of the reasons. Those guys were good at the time though. Sergio is still more progressive than our current manager if the training videos are anything to go by. 
Who do you fancy as manager, I can’t say there’s many outstanding candidates that I know of. 

 

There are loads of outstanding candidates. We cannot afford most of them. The ones we could afford would not be seen dead near Tynecastle (at the moment).

[rubyruby]

23 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

You’ve missed out the bit about Nelms acting in the ‘best interests of Scottish football’. 

I never wrote this ...it was on Twitter.🙄

[GinRummy]

Just now, rubyruby said:

I never wrote this ...it was on Twitter.🙄

I should have noticed that. It’s always the bit that sticks with me, Nelms claim that he changed his vote for everyone’s sake. Total snake of a man. 

[OldGorgie]

10 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He's starting to come good after contributing nothing. Anyone who likes entertainment should be happy he's in the team. Capable of cracking moments of skill and seems to be coming on to a game now after his holiday in the States. 

Yes it was a particularly good price of skill when he missed an early sitter followed by another two yards out. 

[TyphoonJambo]

Just watched the Wolves miss. Even miss.  Boy managed to clear the cross bar from a foot out

[KyleLafferty]

If we ever replaced Robbie I’d be happy with Jim Goodwin.

[DH1986]

The formation and set up of the team was a lot better....really suited the starting XI and the difference was clear to see.

 

We wobbled after they scored and once RN changed to a more defensive strategy to see the game out its safe to say we were fortunate to hold on.

 

Having only two proper forwards in our squad is a disgrace and it really could have cost us yesterday. We have no room for injuries or fatigue in that area and RN has to sort that out in the summer.....the squad is two strikers light.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, MCW1976 said:

 

That stat proves just how bad Scottish football is. That stat proves just how unbelievably bad we are.

Just looking at the tables. 

 

Not many teams score a lot of goals. Painful evidence of how battle hardened Scottish football truly is. 

 

Why I would take into consideration criticism but of course we should never have found ourselves here in the first place against such poor opponents 

[Newton51]

Same team next week Robbie!

[chrystaf]

3 hours ago, MCW1976 said:

 

That stat proves just how bad Scottish football is. That stat proves just how unbelievably bad we are.

No, it proves how pathetic the Premiership is with every club outside the OF playing defensively because they are shit scared.

 

And it proves yet again that the leagues is far too small.....now where have we heard that before!?

[Byyy The Light]

25 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

No, it proves how pathetic the Premiership is with every club outside the OF playing defensively because they are shit scared.

 

And it proves yet again that the leagues is far too small.....now where have we heard that before!?

totally agree 

[Ex member of the SaS]

12 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Wasting your time Robbie is the messiah. 

I like Robbie and want him to do well BUT the way he handles slight adversity is doing my head in. I posted earlier I can see why fans were calling him poodle as he instantly reverted to Levein's defend a one goal lead. This is not how we should have ended the game.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, MCW1976 said:

 

There are loads of outstanding candidates. We cannot afford most of them. The ones we could afford would not be seen dead near Tynecastle (at the moment).

I was thinking in the future, I don’t really follow the English leagues where folk seem to see good managers that would do well for us. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

There are many point to being a good manager and tactics is only one. The training week to week is done by the back room guys and Robbie picks the team and instructs the back room how he wants them to play. But another even bigger part to being a manager is identifying and getting players who can do the job and gell well with the rest of the team.

Robbie is going for a more defensive type and ignoring the fact we have to score to win games. I can understand getting twitchy playing one of the Glasgow bigots but having watched that game, how he got twitchy playing Dunfeckindee is beyond me.

How will he feel playing in the top flight if he panics down here?

[Cruyff]

2 hours ago, KyleLafferty said:

If we ever replaced Robbie I’d be happy with Jim Goodwin.

[davemclaren]

2 hours ago, Newton51 said:

Same team next week Robbie!

That would make sense. 

[Gnjambo16]

12 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

And our league position for theirs.

But we are in the diddy league and they might get into Europe and make3 rd so logic there seems a wee bit off 🤨

[Francis Albert]

37 minutes ago, Gnjambo16 said:

But we are in the diddy league and they might get into Europe and make3 rd so logic there seems a wee bit off 🤨

I meant I'd swap our position in the Championship for their position in the Premiership. 

Surely anyone would. In fact I'd swap our league position for any position in the Premiership. 

[davemclaren]

13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I meant I'd swap our position in the Championship for their position in the Premiership. 

Surely anyone would. In fact I'd swap our league position for any position in the Premiership. 

Not 12th. 

[King prawn]

Just watched the highlights and we should have scored 5 or 6 before Gordon had to keep us in it at the end. 

[KyleLafferty]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Why the Face? Young upcoming manager, tries to play attacking football, good in the transfer market and now looking like securing a top 6 place and got to national semi final

[Cruyff]

11 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Why the Face? Young upcoming manager, tries to play attacking football, good in the transfer market and now looking like securing a top 6 place and got to national semi final

He's Jim Goodwin. That's why. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Players can improve with the correct training, Rodgers improved most of the Scots at Celtic including trying to get Griffiths to link the play not just get it and shoot. Look at the difference eventually in Ian Black, who had the best 6 months of his career under Sergio. Look at the difference if a few players under Stendel. I don’t see that under Neilson so far. 
Who knows what the future holds but our GK might just use his knowledge gleaned from Rodgers and others if he wants to go down that route. He would certain be respected by senior figures in the dressing room. Naismith might also be another that leads us in the future. 

 

Neilson is just in the door this time though. What Neilson did this term, which Stendel definitely didn't do for all the improvements to Clare and Moore, was take mostly the same demotivated and underperforming players and turn them into a winning team immediately. And how much did Stendel improve Clare and Moore really? What he did was he found places in the team where they could be more effective. Did he make them better players?

 

Neilson on the other hand has improved players to the point that their whole careers improved. Taking his last spell, if we're looking at individual players to compare with the ones you mentioned, from the Scots Walker, Nicolson and Paterson all improved and their careers kicked on under Neilson, some making more of their chances than others. He improved Djoum considerably and turned him into a very effective AM. John Souttar went from his career going nowhere to first choice for Scotland. All five of those players arguably played their best football under Neilson - Walker, Djoum and Souttar in particular.

Edited March 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

36 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Why the Face? Young upcoming manager, tries to play attacking football, good in the transfer market and now looking like securing a top 6 place and got to national semi final

 

So Neilson then? He might not always succeed but he definitely wants to play attacking football as well as win games and he does both more often than not. 

 

In the season 16/17 when people were calling for Neilson's head, by Christmas Walker and Djoum were the best AMs in the country and our RB was scoring for fun. Our main striker had got up to speed and did enough in a month or two to attract interest from the Netherlands and get called up for Norway. We were second top scorers behind a dominant Celtic I think.

 

We've scored a lot of goals under Neilson. He doesn't play kick and rush or long ball football, or particularly direct high tempo football, so how the hell do we score so many goals under him if he's a defensive minded manager? This has always been a mystery for me. Do the players just score despite his tactics? 

Edited March 7, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[No Idle Talk]

Not long finished watching yesterday's match. It was quite a Jekyll & Hyde performance I thought. The first 10-15mins was fairly equal but from then on until Dundee got their penalty I thought we dominated the match. After Dundee scored their penalty, I thought we looked jittery and fell out of the game. At the end we were hanging on. As I say, it all felt very Jekyll & Hyde.

 

The bright spots for me were seeing the two strikers up front together and the performance of the two full-backs. Smith and Kingsley looked much, much better. Much more like themselves. Perhaps it suits them better to play in a formation where they don't have any wingers in front of them and it is their responsibility to get forward and be the ones supplying crosses into the box. We'll see.

 

The low point was Gary Mackay-Steven's miss. Goodness me. 😳

 

Overall, good to get the win and put a dent in Dundee's play-off hopes. 

 

PS. Does anyone know what James McPake was having a go at Robbie Neilson for after full time?

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Not 12th. 

OK went too far there. But even so if we were on Killies place today we would still have a decent chance of avoiding the ignominy of a season competing with Alloa and Arbroath.

[maroondevo52]

28 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

 

PS. Does anyone know what James McPake was having a go at Robbie Neilson for after full time?

 

Could have been Robbie having a go at him remembering the 'yellow card' assault on Naismith early doors in the game at Dens, same ref.

[Jambo in Bathgate]

Just watched the highlights with view from pitch level. We should have had a penalty. Ball clearly hits Dundee player on arm and ricochets away. Ref was quick to send off Haring. Offence no difference than the yellow given on similar offence against Naismith at Dens. 

[Commander lovemuscle]

Link to the highlights please guys 

[TheBigO]

Anyone got highlights??  

[milky_26]

 

[Pasquale for King]

20 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Neilson is just in the door this time though. What Neilson did this term, which Stendel definitely didn't do for all the improvements to Clare and Moore, was take mostly the same demotivated and underperforming players and turn them into a winning team immediately. And how much did Stendel improve Clare and Moore really? What he did was he found places in the team where they could be more effective. Did he make them better players?

 

Neilson on the other hand has improved players to the point that their whole careers improved. Taking his last spell, if we're looking at individual players to compare with the ones you mentioned, from the Scots Walker, Nicolson and Paterson all improved and their careers kicked on under Neilson, some making more of their chances than others. He improved Djoum considerably and turned him into a very effective AM. John Souttar went from his career going nowhere to first choice for Scotland. All five of those players arguably played their best football under Neilson - Walker, Djoum and Souttar in particular.

Where to start. 
Neilsons just in the door? He’s been here 9 months, Stendel had 3. Clare, Moore and Henderson all improved to become players who were comfortable in the league we were in, unlike under your hero. 
There’s no evidence Djoum was improved by Neilson, none at all. He wanted to play him wide right instead of his best position, we played Motherwell once and he had Djoum in the middle, 3 nil at HT so moved Prince into the centre until as usual he ran out of steam, got booked and subbed, moved Djoum back central another 3 goals. 
Walker hasn’t had that great a career I’m afraid, 20 lower league goals in his 50 over 10 years. 
Patterson was pretty much the same player he was when he left as when Neilson got there, he couldn’t defend but scores. He’s still the same now. Nicholson is as inconsistent as he ever was as a winger, because folk like Neilson think he’s a winger when anyone can see he’s a number 10, when did he ever beat a man and cross the ball?

Souttars best form for Hearts was beside Berra with McLaughlin behind them under Levein, he only played about 20 games under Neilson and made his Scotland debut 20 months after he left so you can’t give him all the credit for that, his two bookings and mistake for Israel’s goal in his third cap maybe showed he wasn’t ready. 

Like your hero and your tag team buddy SRB you always hark back to Neilsons first reign, that time has gone get over it. 
All Neilson has done is steadied the ship in this tinpot league with poor teams with no money, one that’s he’s that scared of its unbelievable. Most managers would have this squad top of the league, it’s no great achievement this time round. For you to try and give him credit for somehow transforming guys like Smith/Naismith/Boyce into winners is just laughable. 

[Pasquale for King]

15 hours ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

Just watched the highlights with view from pitch level. We should have had a penalty. Ball clearly hits Dundee player on arm and ricochets away. Ref was quick to send off Haring. Offence no difference than the yellow given on similar offence against Naismith at Dens. 

Definitely, his arm was above his head. First red card this ref has issued this season, probably correct but shows inconsistencies as you say. 

[The Apprentice]

19 hours ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

PS. Does anyone know what James McPake was having a go at Robbie Neilson for after full time?

Apparently McPake wasn’t happy that Robbie was shouting at the officials from the touchline claiming the red card will be overturned. 

[No Idle Talk]

5 hours ago, The Apprentice said:

Apparently McPake wasn’t happy that Robbie was shouting at the officials from the touchline claiming the red card will be overturned. 

 

Cheers.

 

I don't think it will be but if it winds McPake up for a while then that's good. 😁