Official Neilson Out Thread ( merged )

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Neilson will get more time. It was an idiotic thread in October and still is. I see no need to compare neilson to DS. I wanted DS to stay but I now fully support neilson and hope he gets the time to put the side together that he wants. As for playing style, the board new what they were getting with DS, their naivety is not Stendel’s fault. 
 

That’s my whole point, we can’t judge Stendel at all because he didn’t have the time or resources to judge him. 

 

I was so excited by the "idea of Stendel" that I changed form Robbo to him as my top choice. Once it was clear to everyone, including him you'd imagine, that we were in serious trouble of relegation he should have moved to sort things much faster than he did. When he took over we were one win away from 8th with a game in hand over the team in 8th.

 

Most of us thought we'd quickly make up so few points. As has been gone over again and again, reinstating then not dropping that horror show of a goalie is probably the worst single and most damaging decisions any Hearts manager has ever made.

Edited February 16, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Did the club not know what he was all about when they sought his services? What did they talk about? Wrong man at the wrong time. Dissing Stendel is a red herring.

 

The club ****ed up, not appreciating the seriousness of the situation until it was too late. Operating in a vacuum whilst other teams created squads robust enough to survive on a pittance. That is it. 

I don’t think the board realised the seriousness of our situation either and they didn’t really think we had a chance of going down. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, GinRummy said:

I don’t think the board realised the seriousness of our situation either and they didn’t really think we had a chance of going down. 

The consequence of a club’s owner being more interested in orchestras.

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I was so excited by the "idea of Stendel" that I changed form Robbo to him as my top choice. Once it was clear to everyone, including him you'd imagine, that we were in serious trouble of relegation he should have moved to sort things much faster than he did. When he took over we were one win away from 8th with a game in hand over the team in 8th.

 

Most of us thought we'd quickly make up so few points. As has been gone over again and again, reinstating then not dropping that horror show of a goalie is probably the worst single and most damaging decisions any Hearts manager has ever made.

He came with one plan.high press, attacking football. Call that limited or whatever you like but he didn’t have the players for that and didn’t seem to adapt quickly enough. The keeper thing was inexcusable. I’m not saying he didn’t make mistakes. I am saying he wasn’t given enough time or resources and his style could have worked if he was given more of both. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

He came with one plan.high press, attacking football. Call that limited or whatever you like but he didn’t have the players for that and didn’t seem to adapt quickly enough. The keeper thing was inexcusable. I’m not saying he didn’t make mistakes. I am saying he wasn’t given enough time or resources and his style could have worked if he was given more of both. 

 

It all sounded great. Didn't look it though in games we had to win. Maybe he was the right manager at the wrong time. Let's see where his career goes now, maybe we missed out on the next Klopp who knows?

Edited February 16, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[GinRummy]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

It all sounded great. Maybe he was the right manager at the wrong time. Let's see where his career goes now, maybe we missed out on the next Klopp who knows?

Yep, another disappointing end to more high hopes. Familiar story 😀

[Riccarton3]

8 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I don’t think the board realised the seriousness of our situation either and they didn’t really think we had a chance of going down. 

You can't avoid seeing it as utter complacency. You just need to look around (as a fan ffs) and see the determination and steel of the teams we were around. e.g Hamilton go to Ibrox and win. I found it bizarre we were after Daniel Stendel after an excruciating length of time. There's the real inability  to see the situation.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Riccarton3 said:

You can't avoid seeing it as utter complacency. You just need to look around (as a fan ffs) and see the determination and steel of the teams we were around. e.g Hamilton go to Ibrox and win. I found it bizarre we were after Daniel Stendel after an excruciating length of time. There's the real inability  to see the situation.

I think it’s fair. I was on here whining for weeks about how long it was taking. I still believe, though it’s purely my opinion, they were hoping McPhee was going to be up to the job. If true, that was incredibly naive.

[Dennis Reynolds]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think it’s fair. I was on here whining for weeks about how long it was taking. I still believe, though it’s purely my opinion, they were hoping McPhee was going to be up to the job. If true, that was incredibly naive.

 

I got that impression.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think it’s fair. I was on here whining for weeks about how long it was taking. I still believe, though it’s purely my opinion, they were hoping McPhee was going to be up to the job. If true, that was incredibly naive.

They sure were hoping that - which was why McPhee was speaking as if the job could be his. Then he was exposed as the utter fraud that he is but the fact remains that Budge was hoping to retain part of a woefully failing coaching team. Honestly, we’ve been run by a charlatan in a footballing sense.

[GinRummy]

7 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

They sure were hoping that - which was why McPhee was speaking as if the job could be his. Then he was exposed as the utter fraud that he is but the fact remains that Budge was hoping to retain part of a woefully failing coaching team. Honestly, we’ve been run by a charlatan in a footballing sense.

Charlatan is a ridiculous way to describe her. The rest of your post could well be right though. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Charlatan is a ridiculous way to describe her. The rest of your post could well be right though. 

People just will not wake up to her mindset 

[Rudy T]

20 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

People just will not wake up to her mindset 

 

Wtf are you on about? She came in said she knew little about football and was blindsided by Levein and his fantasy land 5 year plan. After season 1 Ann Budge clearly thought the man knew his apples. The minute Neilson left the entire "project" fell on its arse and Leveins master plan was full of holes. Cathro should've been the catalyst for a frank discussion with Levein about the plan instead he took the managers job and continued to bullshit Budge and the board.

 

If anyone is a charlatan it's Levein. It's no surprise she's turned back to Neilson as it was our only successful period under her stewardship. Only this time the DoF (sporting director or whatever the title is) actually looks the real deal.

[cunny1874]

Way I see it neilson had a free season to get a good squad young hungry squad together,we were always going to win this league with size of squad/money we could spend.so no pressure free season to get the right players in and get them playing a way hearts team should play. And I'm not seeing anything to suggest that's happening,the performances this year have been shocking,if not for Gordon would probably say we might not even be top or maybe just by 2/3points.. 

 

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, cunny1874 said:

Way I see it neilson had a free season to get a good squad young hungry squad together,we were always going to win this league with size of squad/money we could spend.so no pressure free season to get the right players in and get them playing a way hearts team should play. And I'm not seeing anything to suggest that's happening,the performances this year have been shocking,if not for Gordon would probably say we might not even be top or maybe just by 2/3points.. 

 

Goalkeepers are there to make saves. We are where we are in the league regardless of whataboutery. 

[JimmyCant]

2 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

You can't avoid seeing it as utter complacency. You just need to look around (as a fan ffs) and see the determination and steel of the teams we were around. e.g Hamilton go to Ibrox and win. I found it bizarre we were after Daniel Stendel after an excruciating length of time. There's the real inability  to see the situation.

Appointing Stendel when we did turned out to be a horrible mistake, made internally by non football people basically because the only football man in a position of influence at the club was a busted flush, even Budge didn’t trust him by then IMO. I honestly believe Stendel was a social media appointment and she hadn’t the first clue what the man was about or what we needed instead.

 

What we needed was a caretaker who could organise us and make us as solid as we could be with a couple of signings to shore us up. What we got was a revolution and round pegs being forced into square holes all over the pitch.

Edited February 16, 2021 by JimmyCant

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

So what was Stendel, an interim choice?

2nd choice at the time I think. Levein mentioned it on the radio at the time Robbie was announced.  Said he had spent an afternoon having a discussion with him in early Nov.  Don’t have to be Einstein to work out he was trying to bring him back as coach. Would probably have saved Leveins DoF role. 

[chrystaf]

5 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Because 'big teams' try to attack and leave us space to play through (i include hibs in that, although clearly not a 'big time'). Every other team is happy to soak up the pressure and hit us on the break.

Agree entirely but it still doesn't solve the problem.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

They sure were hoping that - which was why McPhee was speaking as if the job could be his. Then he was exposed as the utter fraud that he is but the fact remains that Budge was hoping to retain part of a woefully failing coaching team. Honestly, we’ve been run by a charlatan in a footballing sense.

 

Was there not a well documented financial / contract thing that Stendel had with Barnsley that he had to negotiate. 

 

Talked to death on here and iirc in the media. 

Nothing to do with hoping Austin got it. 

 

That was the reason for the time scales. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 hours ago, cunny1874 said:

Way I see it neilson had a free season to get a good squad young hungry squad together,we were always going to win this league with size of squad/money we could spend.so no pressure free season to get the right players in and get them playing a way hearts team should play. And I'm not seeing anything to suggest that's happening,the performances this year have been shocking,if not for Gordon would probably say we might not even be top or maybe just by 2/3points.. 

 

 

 

If we played without a goallie we'd definitely not be top. 

 

 

[Dazo]

7 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Was there not a well documented financial / contract thing that Stendel had with Barnsley that he had to negotiate. 

 

Talked to death on here and iirc in the media. 

Nothing to do with hoping Austin got it. 

 

That was the reason for the time scales. 

Yep and an awful amount of work and negotiations went in to getting him and his assistants for what is now trying to be painted as an interim appointment. 🙄

[Nookie Bear]

9 hours ago, chrystaf said:

Agree entirely but it still doesn't solve the problem.

I give you problems, not solutions 😁

[GinRummy]

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

If we played without a goallie we'd definitely not be top. 

 

 

Could give us the opportunity to have the extra midfielder we always look like we need 🙂

[Bazzas right boot]

13 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Could give us the opportunity to have the extra midfielder we always look like we need 🙂

 

We tried it last season, playing without a goalie... 

[Haken]

Stendel's philosophy worked better against teams who wanted to have a go.  Against teams who would sit in, it was chronic.  We all remember the many times a ball was simply played over the top of our high-attacking formation, leading to a mad sprint backwards to try to defend.  In the Championship, we'd be facing that sit-in mentality every week.

 

Neilson's style is much (much much!) more conservative, but arguably is more effective for the position we're in.

 

In between the two individuals, there's an interesting manager just waiting to break out.

[Jamstomorrow]

What makes this the 'Official' Neilson Out Thread?  

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Was there not a well documented financial / contract thing that Stendel had with Barnsley that he had to negotiate. 

 

Talked to death on here and iirc in the media. 

Nothing to do with hoping Austin got it. 

 

That was the reason for the time scales. 

 

could be right mate - a fair opinion

 

on the other hand we did have form for it by doing similar with jon daly - so my opinion is on the ‘hoped Austin got it’ side of the fence

 

 

[glynnlondon]

12 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

Wtf are you on about? She came in said she knew little about football and was blindsided by Levein and his fantasy land 5 year plan. After season 1 Ann Budge clearly thought the man knew his apples. The minute Neilson left the entire "project" fell on its arse and Leveins master plan was full of holes. Cathro should've been the catalyst for a frank discussion with Levein about the plan instead he took the managers job and continued to bullshit Budge and the board.

 

If anyone is a charlatan it's Levein. It's no surprise she's turned back to Neilson as it was our only successful period under her stewardship. Only this time the DoF (sporting director or whatever the title is) actually looks the real deal.

She's ****ing clueless

[glynnlondon]

5 minutes ago, Jamstomorrow said:

What makes this the 'Official' Neilson Out Thread?  

Not spelt with an h

[A_A wehatethehibs]

This seems to be more of a Neilson in thread? But then once every 3 or 4 wins we fail to win it froths back up again 

[Jamstomorrow]

7 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

This seems to be more of a Neilson in thread? But then once every 3 or 4 wins we fail to win it froths back up again 

What is the phrase used?   'Panty-wetting man-babies.'  Nowt more fickle than football supporters, it seems.

 

 

[kingantti1874]

55 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

This seems to be more of a Neilson in thread? But then once every 3 or 4 wins we fail to win it froths back up again 

yep. It wouldn’t matter if we win the next 10. As soon as any performance is below par we have a group who demand the managers head.

 

let him get the job done and judge next year 

[Hearts1975]

14 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It all sounded great. Didn't look it though in games we had to win. Maybe he was the right manager at the wrong time. Let's see where his career goes now, maybe we missed out on the next Klopp who knows?

 

14 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Yep, another disappointing end to more high hopes. Familiar story 😀

I completely spat the dummy out at the time it happened re DS. Just couldn’t believe that after persevering with CL for that long, that AB would be so naive as to think DS would have been the short term solution to getting us up the league and pronto.

 

I have came to the realisation (now) that he was never going to be able to do this. Brand new style of play - too much to change in to little time - maybe we needed someone to stabilise, some results based manager that knew the Scottish game inside out. 
 

I looked long term at the whole thing, thinking what we would be like after 2/3 years under him, and didn’t realise that it wasn’t how AB saw it. Not disappointed by RN appointment, but not surprised either. Will give him my full support but I think we all know what we will get with Robbie - we have bought a lot of players and spent a lot of money. No excuses. We need out of this league, first time of asking and will see what next season brings

[Riccarton3]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

Yep and an awful amount of work and negotiations went in to getting him and his assistants for what is now trying to be painted as an interim appointment. 🙄

An utter crash crash. The awful amount of work and negotiations amid the real threat of relegation. And for what? To ditch it after a few months. Effectively he has been an interim appointment dictated by Hearts. A real investment would have seen him retained.

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

An utter crash crash. The awful amount of work and negotiations amid the real threat of relegation. And for what? To ditch it after a few months. Effectively he has been an interim appointment dictated by Hearts. A real investment would have seen him retained.

 

He had the get escape clause on relegation written into his contract, and there was little to suggest any confidence in him getting the team promoted.

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

An utter crash crash. The awful amount of work and negotiations amid the real threat of relegation. And for what? To ditch it after a few months. Effectively he has been an interim appointment dictated by Hearts. A real investment would have seen him retained.

Normally I’d agree, he was shit though. 

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

He had the get escape clause on relegation written into his contract, and there was little to suggest any confidence in him getting the team promoted.

Oh well at least the club was taking notice of relegation in the paperwork

[A_A wehatethehibs]

16 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

An utter crash crash. The awful amount of work and negotiations amid the real threat of relegation. And for what? To ditch it after a few months. Effectively he has been an interim appointment dictated by Hearts. A real investment would have seen him retained.

He would have been retained if he’d kept us up. He unfortunately didn’t. And it’s not being “painted as an interim appointment” it was what it was: the wrong appointment.
 

And so the choice became, who is the best choice to guarantee us promotion first time of asking? The answer based on his results, was not Stendel. The club didn’t fancy risking it they wanted a cast iron guarantee. Take a look at the league table for the vindication. As long as we get promoted, the correct decision was made. Move on. 

[chrystaf]

3 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

We tried it last season, playing without a goalie... 

Indeed!

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

Oh well at least the club was taking notice of relegation in the paperwork

 

Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?

[frankblack]

3 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

We tried it last season, playing without a goalie... 

 

Don't remind me...

 

[Riccarton3]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?

Well, that's even more worrying. Probably just intuition or he'd watched the team

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

An utter crash crash. The awful amount of work and negotiations amid the real threat of relegation. And for what? To ditch it after a few months. Effectively he has been an interim appointment dictated by Hearts. A real investment would have seen him retained.

 

If only folk had predicted a global pandemic and the curtailed season. 

 

Stendel imo was brought in with the mindset we'd avoid relegation and build for the next season. 

 

Tbh It all went to ****, Stendal had a poor start, the season ended early and  we got stitched up. 

The landscape and finances of the role changed. 

Robbie, a phm, a cup winner and with a record of promoting us and other clubs as well as finishing 3rd with us as manager was seen as the guy to get our act together. 

 

So far, so good. 

[oi oi]

17 hours ago, DH1986 said:

Apparently............

 

Stendel picked his team based on who’s paid the most.

 

I wonder what coaching manual he found that little beauty ?

That right aye? Why did he bin rather than play Berra then?

[WageThief]

17 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

The consequence of a club’s owner being more interested in orchestras.

 

Orchestras are still better than basketball, pies, or Tory councilors though.

[Ethan Hunt]

16 hours ago, cunny1874 said:

Way I see it neilson had a free season to get a good squad young hungry squad together,we were always going to win this league with size of squad/money we could spend.so no pressure free season to get the right players in and get them playing a way hearts team should play. And I'm not seeing anything to suggest that's happening,the performances this year have been shocking,if not for Gordon would probably say we might not even be top or maybe just by 2/3points.. 

 

This is pretty much where I am. This season should have been a re-building for the next few seasons. This current squad is no better than the one that had us bottom last season. It will need a big clear out to have us in any way competitive in the top league. A few new signings just isn’t going to cut it, especially with a manager with questionable tactics and mindset in how to not lose games.

[Bazzas right boot]

13 minutes ago, WageThief said:

 

Orchestras are still better than basketball, pies, or Tory councilors though.

 

Bet you a tenor their not... 

[Ethan Hunt]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

He would have been retained if he’d kept us up. He unfortunately didn’t. And it’s not being “painted as an interim appointment” it was what it was: the wrong appointment.
 

And so the choice became, who is the best choice to guarantee us promotion first time of asking? The answer based on his results, was not Stendel. The club didn’t fancy risking it they wanted a cast iron guarantee. Take a look at the league table for the vindication. As long as we get promoted, the correct decision was made. Move on. 

There is no such thing as a “cast iron guarantee” in football. That said, regardless of who the manager would have been, Hearts being promoted out of this tinpot league is about as much of a cast iron guarantee as you’d get. 

 

Neilson was no more of a guarantee than anyone else. If you are going to use his past record as credentials for a guarantee, then using the same process you can also guarantee he’ll feck off when people say a few bad things about him, or a Mickey Mouse English club come for him, or when he doesn’t fancy a shot in the big league as there is a cushier number lined up.

 

I have no doubt Stendel would have had us top of this league, playing far better football, and we’d be in a stronger re-building position.

 

 

[WageThief]

9 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Bet you a tenor their not... 

 

I've no money to gamble.  I spent it all on suites.

[DH1986]

36 minutes ago, oi oi said:

That right aye? Why did he bin rather than play Berra then?

Fabulous question.........