Genghis Khan Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Pardon me for worrying how Heart of Midlothian Football Club are going to fare on the pitch this season. Ah, you've now extended your interest to the whole season as opposed to just the first game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Can you answer my question ? I'll ask it again for you case you missed it. How does transferring ?12m from under one mattress to under another mattress help the immediate footballing prospects of the club ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Okay, we know that the G10 and SOH met with Hearts yesterday, presumably to be told about the plans announced this morning. But do any fans reps want to tell us what else was said at these meetings? Did they ask any questions and if so, what were the answers? Okay, nothing so far. Can anyone remind me of how the G10 is made up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tynie Bubbles Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Okay, nothing so far. Can anyone remind me of how the G10 is made up? Roll up your right sleeve, stand on one leg and do the correct kind of funny handshake and I'll tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Masterton Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 2 reps from the following: HMSA Federation Trust Fans forum The club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 2 reps from the following: HMSA Federation Trust Fans forum The club Wasn't the fans forum an awful lot more relevant in Pieman's time than now, though? Genuine question, asked mainly out of ignorance on my part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Masterton Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Wasn't the fans forum an awful lot more relevant in Pieman's time than now, though? Genuine question, asked mainly out of ignorance on my part! It was started by the pieman, The whole lot should be scrapped and a single body brought into the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Any increased involvement or organisation from the fans would be supported by me. Of course depending on their intents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 It was started by the pieman, The whole lot should be scrapped and a single body brought into the fold. Thanks Dougie. Coudn't agree more re: scrapping the whole lot but I can't imagine any of these groups ever agreeing to something like that. More's the pity. Do we know which reps went from each group yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Roll up your right sleeve, stand on one leg and do the correct kind of funny handshake and I'll tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Wasn't the fans forum an awful lot more relevant in Pieman's time than now, though? Genuine question, asked mainly out of ignorance on my part! I like the sound of the Fans Forum far more than any of the others, to be honest. In my humble opinion, it has the most modern and inclusive structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Thanks Dougie. Coudn't agree more re: scrapping the whole lot but I can't imagine any of these groups ever agreeing to something like that. More's the pity. Do we know which reps went from each group yet? They don't need to scrap these organisations but Hearts (the club) should remove their historically special status and refuse to meet with them on an individual basis and insist that the G10 become a one member one vote organisation open to any / all Hearts supporters and these groups can join or not join as they wish but as they have experience with running organisations and relationships with the club they could put themselves forward for election to the members council or even have a permanent place on that but the status quo should not be an option as it is way too fragmented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 They don't need to scrap these organisations but Hearts (the club) should remove their historically special status and refuse to meet with them on an individual basis and insist that the G10 become a one member one vote organisation open to any / all Hearts supporters and these groups can join or not join as they wish but as they have experience with running organisations and relationships with the club they could put themselves forward for election to the members council or even have a permanent place on that but the status quo should not be an option as it is way too fragmented. Why do the Hearts fans need a single 'Fans Union'? What difference would this be supposed to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Why do the Hearts fans need a single 'Fans Union'? What difference would this be supposed to make? Because currently we have SOH, Fans Forum, HMSA, HMST, FOHSC all meeting with the club, all having different agenda's and opinions and these don't represent non-affiliated ST holders - basically communication is too fragmented and none of them can claim to speak on behalf of the Hearts support........anyway Ajax Amsterdam have a members organisation separate from the club which is an umbrella organisation for their worldwide & various supporters groups and even Ajax Gods like Cruyff attend the council meetings. Why shouldn't we have the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Because currently we have SOH, Fans Forum, HMSA, HMST, FOH all meeting with the club, all having different agenda's and opinions and these don't represent non-affiliated ST holders - basically communication is too fragmented and none of them can claim to speak on behalf of the Hearts support........anyway Ajax Amsterdam have a members organisation separate from the club which is an umbrella organisation for their worldwide & various supporters groups and even Ajax Gods like Cruyff attend the council meetings. Why shouldn't we have the same? Communication is fragmented because someone disconnected from the club owns the club and provides the communications policy based on their own brand of whimsy. They just sacked their PR guy because they wanted to cut the amount of communication! I don't think that there is anything wrong with any group of fans organising themselves however they wish. The Federation and the Shareholders Association in particular have clear aims and I am sure they will have clear constitutions to represent their members. In addition - Kickback even has room for the most deluded of Hearts fans - how would a single organisation represent their views as well as the sensible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Communication is fragmented because someone disconnected from the club owns the club and provides the communications policy based on their own brand of whimsy. They just sacked their PR guy because they wanted to cut the amount of communication! I don't think that there is anything wrong with any group of fans organising themselves however they wish. The Federation and the Shareholders Association in particular have clear aims and I am sure they will have clear constitutions to represent their members. In addition - Kickback even has room for the most deluded of Hearts fans - how would a single organisation represent their views as well as the sensible? The G10 group was created (pre-Romanov?) because Hearts don't want to have to meet 4, 5 or 6 separate supporters groups to communicate broadly similar information - also who can authoritively speak on behalf of the majority of the Hearts support? At present none of them - but an elected council would at least have a mandate - of course they could never speak for everyone they could however represent the consensus view of their members and if they didn't at least be accountable for what is done in their name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The G10 group was created (pre-Romanov?) because Hearts don't want to have to meet 4, 5 or 6 separate supporters groups to communicate broadly similar information - also who can authoritively speak on behalf of the majority of the Hearts support? At present none of them - but an elected council would at least have a mandate - of course they could never speak for everyone they could however represent the consensus view of their members and if they didn't at least be accountable for what is done in their name. Do Tesco have a single association of people who speak for all the customers? Or does Tesco predict and react to the custom of the customers? Provide some real communication - to be fair of the sort of this morning on the swap - and this supposed 'problem' of communication fades away (this 'problem' is all about the owner of the club). The SA, Federation etc can then continue to lobby/speak to the Hearts management on the issues which pertain to them. What would the 'Fans Union' represent the fans on at the moment. Would they present the results of the polls - Romanov out, Romanov less meddling, all is rosy with percentages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Do Tesco have a single association of people who speak for all the customers? Or does Tesco predict and react to the custom of the customers?Provide some real communication - to be fair of the sort of this morning on the swap - and this supposed 'problem' of communication fades away (this 'problem' is all about the owner of the club). The SA, Federation etc can then continue to lobby/speak to the Hearts management on the issues which pertain to them. What would the 'Fans Union' represent the fans on at the moment. Would they present the results of the polls - Romanov out, Romanov less meddling, all is rosy with percentages? Is there any other club in Scotland with various different groups claiming to represent the fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Is there any other club in Scotland with various different groups claiming to represent the fans? I haven't a clue. I am not even very interested in the aim of turning Hearts into the Ajax of the West. But what I would say is that anyone who tried to represent Hearts fans as head of the 'Fans Union' would be on an absolute hiding to nothing. How could they represent the most deluded as well as the sensible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Do Tesco have a single association of people who speak for all the customers? Or does Tesco predict and react to the custom of the customers? Provide some real communication - to be fair of the sort of this morning on the swap - and this supposed 'problem' of communication fades away (this 'problem' is all about the owner of the club). The SA, Federation etc can then continue to lobby/speak to the Hearts management on the issues which pertain to them. What would the 'Fans Union' represent the fans on at the moment. Would they present the results of the polls - Romanov out, Romanov less meddling, all is rosy with percentages? The 'Fans Union' would be the all inclusive group of Hearts supporters and would represent ALL Hearts fans and fans groups to the club regardless of who the club owners are or how well or badly the club or team is performing or do you not think Hearts fans need any representation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I haven't a clue. I am not even very interested in the aim of turning Hearts into the Ajax of the West. But what I would say is that anyone who tried to represent Hearts fans as head of the 'Fans Union' would be on an absolute hiding to nothing. How could they represent the most deluded as well as the sensible? Simple. Representative democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Simple. Representative democracy. That as far as I know is what the current supporters groups have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I haven't a clue. I am not even very interested in the aim of turning Hearts into the Ajax of the West. But what I would say is that anyone who tried to represent Hearts fans as head of the 'Fans Union' would be on an absolute hiding to nothing. How could they represent the most deluded as well as the sensible? They couldn't the same as any government or council cannot - they can only represent the will of the majority they represent and be accountable to them - I assume somebody would want to head this organisation and we currently have 5 or 6 leaders of fans groups & some of them claim to speak on behalf of the majority (but without mandate) - so give them a mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The 'Fans Union' would be the all inclusive group of Hearts supporters and would represent ALL Hearts fans and fans groups to the club regardless of who the club owners are or how well or badly the club or team is performing or do you not think Hearts fans need any representation? I think that the current representation is fine. They represent the interests of their members (I'm a member of none of them). What would this Fans Union be doing at the moment? If it were to represent what I guess is the majority and suggest that the fans are extremely annoyed/apathetic about the football management at the club - how would that represent you who thinks that all is rosy at the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 The 'Fans Union' would be the all inclusive group of Hearts supporters and would represent ALL Hearts fans and fans groups to the club regardless of who the club owners are or how well or badly the club or team is performing or do you not think Hearts fans need any representation? Would it, or would like the other organisations would it not just represent those that are it's members. There are reasons for different groups, the shareholders have different wants and needs than the supporters buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 That as far as I know is what the current supporters groups have. Sure - and if there ever was a larger, unified group, that's what it would have too. And a much more compelling mandate to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'll change my vote to NO I wouldn't back SOH. And I'd hate to think they used this poll as leverage to get their secret meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sexington Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'll change my vote to NO I wouldn't back SOH. And I'd hate to think they used this poll as leverage to get their secret meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'll change my vote to NO I wouldn't back SOH. And I'd hate to think they used this poll as leverage to get their secret meeting. You are losing the plot!!!! Away and have a lie down you little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'll change my vote to NO I wouldn't back SOH. And I'd hate to think they used this poll as leverage to get their secret meeting. Those boys won't let me into their meetings...I'll show them...I'll change my vote to no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'll change my vote to NO I wouldn't back SOH. And I'd hate to think they used this poll as leverage to get their secret meeting. Think you'll find that DH started the poll because he got wind of 'something brewing' as per the OP. Just to make you feel better, I've voted 'no' too - there's safety in numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Think you'll find that DH started the poll because he got wind of 'something brewing' as per the OP. Just to make you feel better, I've voted 'no' too - there's safety in numbers! Correct. And the purpose of it was : 1) To gauge a response of how much backing you guys would get. And as I suspected it was pretty high. 2) I hoped that you guys would take this on board and stop another group from forming and trying to get answers. Safety in numbers as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Think you'll find that DH started the poll because he got wind of 'something brewing' as per the OP. Just to make you feel better, I've voted 'no' too - there's safety in numbers! Was he asked by SOH to post his "ive got wind" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmaroon Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I'll change my vote to NO I wouldn't back SOH. And I'd hate to think they used this poll as leverage to get their secret meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Correct. And the purpose of it was : 1) To gauge a response of how much backing you guys would get. And as I suspected it was pretty high. 2) I hoped that you guys would take this on board and stop another group from forming and trying to get answers. Safety in numbers as you say. Thing is, I'm well aware that 82% "backing" on the internet converts to the same 10 guys on a wet Wednesday protest outside Brian Duffin's Scottish Life offices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Was he asked by SOH to post his "ive got wind" thread? One minute we're a secret society and the next we're manipulating the proletariat? We never asked anyone to post anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.Arturo Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 After the events of today I voted no. Lets see what happens now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 One minute we're a secret society and the next we're manipulating the proletariat? We never asked anyone to post anything. Please forgive my cynicism, its a pre requisite to be a Hearts fan nowadays;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I still want to vote to 'make things right at Hearts' It's a great idea I don't need to know the detail - just make it 'right' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 You are losing the plot!!!! Away and have a lie down you little girl. http://www.hulgerisation.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/wind-up-lamp01.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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