Save Our Hearts

[Drylaw Hearts]

Scottish football did nothing to help Hearts in the early 1980s or in 2004. They will not do anything now either.

 

Todays situation is bad but is no where as severe as either of the above times where.

 

We are on a different slippery slope this time though.

 

We are unable to even attract a Manager which I find absolutely shocking.

[redm]

If something does happen and a campaign is launched, I get the distinct impression that JKB will be less useful as a communication tool than might have been expected thanks to a small, but very vocal minority who insist on berating those whose own views aren't quite as 'extreme'. As someone else already pointed out, there are a huge number of people who read this forum but don't post and if they've been reading this thread I can fully understand why they might be reluctant to ask questions or become involved in debate thanks to a number of people who insist on dishing out abuse to anyone who doesn't think the same way that they do.

 

Instead of gathering support, you're achieving the complete opposite and actively stifling debate on the important issues. Drylaw Hearts started a thread to try and gauge general opinion on the concept and while some people have been honest enough to say that they're not yet sure and want to know more before making their decision, they've been rounded upon for doing so. For that reason, I don't think we'll see anything approximating a true representation of opinion on this board.

[PTBCAL]

Divide et impera. If Romanov does have someone read this forum to him before bedtime he must sleep pretty feckin easy. He's clearly a very astute man or he wouldn't be 3000 times richer than anyone on here. Everything he does is for a reason and you can be sure that there is reason behind his current action. To understand the man you have to understand his background and upbringing. Eastern Europeans have endured more hardship than most in recent history and NEVER back down. Can you fathom the sheer will involved in living and working in a metal tube thousands of feet under water for months on end?

We made a deal with The Devil and we're now surprised that he's calling the tune?

This is about money. Nothing more. The ONLY way this can be resolved is to collectively withhold our money, as has been expressed by anyone with an ounce of sense.

"But I'm a Hearts supporter not a Romanov supporter, it's disloyal to the team, etc".

When a tumour grows do you leave it because it would be disloyal to your body to remove it?

 

Here lies the problem - I and many others are Hearts supporters who will always watch the team regardless of the owners and their actions. It's what you do.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Scottish football did nothing to help Hearts in the early 1980s or in 2004. They will not do anything now either.

 

Todays situation is bad but is no where as severe as either of the above times where.

 

On allowing a reformed Hearts back into the league? Undoubtedly yes.

 

The time now is equally as bad as former times. We are at the whim of one man who appears unreachable and remote and has utterly zero feelings for the club, and have a support that cannot mobilise. We have frightening debt levels that even our main asset, the stadium cannot repay. And our playing staff and management are at such poor levels that relegation is a real prospect.

 

How is it not as bad?

[Dazo]

Here lies the problem - I and many others are Hearts supporters who will always watch the team regardless of the owners and their actions. It's what you do.

 

 

Completely agree and i think my feelings on VR are well known.

[portobellojambo1]

So standing up to him is the wrong way to go about it. Do you wonder why the rest of British football holds us in such contempt?

 

What I, and others, are trying to determine is what this groups plans are FWJ, which seems a reasonable request to make before committing yourself to something. It was simply to establish if the intention was to force change through dialogue or force Romanov out of the club, and if it was to be the second option what, if anything, was in place should Romanov decide to try and get funds out of the club by the only means possible, sale of any assets, including the stadium/land and the wind up of the business.

 

If that is how torture victims think I would have to take your word on it.

 

DH has stated he is only trying to gauge feeling at the moment, which is fair enough, seigementality has spelt out his interpretation below, which again is fair enough and fairly straightforward (but no different from the basic viewpoint held by the existing groups).

 

I am honestly not sure of how you see things, are you interested in the dialogue route or do you see the end game as Romanov's removal completely, and if so do you have a replacement package awaiting, assuming Romanov decides to wind up rather than sell on. You say he will only kill us in the present form, but there has to be another form to take its place surely, and that will involve people with a hell of a lot more money than those of us on JKB can throw together.

 

As I have said before I have no time for Romanov, none, but where do we go without him, and how do we get there.

 

My understanding of the intentions is to put pressure (fan, media, business)on Romaknob in an effort to:

 

1: Give any new management team full autonomy over team affairs.

 

2: Improve communication.

 

Fairly simple really.

[siegementality]

Yet again you resort to what you deem as petty insults instead of debating the post content.

 

I do feel sorry for you (apologies for drifting off topic, but given your inability to continue in dialogue, I feel I have little choice.)

 

Maybe one day we will be friends?

 

I hope so.

 

Goodnight.

 

x

 

 

Johnny do you really want me to debate this?

 

No confusion.

 

We (Just because I know it grates ) aren't actively looking to sell Tynecastle.

 

If we were we'd know about it.

 

(Just think about it for a minute)

 

Just like we'd know if we were in the 'biggest financial mess we've ever been in'.

 

 

OK, tell me how YOU would know anything about if Tynecastle was being sold or what financial mess Hearts are in. Who would tell you?.

[Fourcandles]

Divide et impera. If Romanov does have someone read this forum to him before bedtime he must sleep pretty feckin easy. He's clearly a very astute man or he wouldn't be 3000 times richer than anyone on here. Everything he does is for a reason and you can be sure that there is reason behind his current action. To understand the man you have to understand his background and upbringing. Eastern Europeans have endured more hardship than most in recent history and NEVER back down. Can you fathom the sheer will involved in living and working in a metal tube thousands of feet under water for months on end?

We made a deal with The Devil and we're now surprised that he's calling the tune?

This is about money. Nothing more. The ONLY way this can be resolved is to collectively withhold our money, as has been expressed by anyone with an ounce of sense.

"But I'm a Hearts supporter not a Romanov supporter, it's disloyal to the team, etc".

When a tumour grows do you leave it because it would be disloyal to your body to remove it?

 

Completely agreed with the second half of your post.

However, the first bit is not true.

People who profitted from the break up of the Eastern Bloc are not always clever, reasonable or rational.

This "he has money so he must be astute" is absolutely and fundamentaly not the case.

I deal with a lot of them in my business and some, not all, are irrational and unreasonable in the extreme - in fact that is often WHY they have made it!

 

Comparative wealth means little in this case - as a millionaire myself I am not necessarily better, cleverer than you - and if you have more than my ?1.36m P.A. income you may not be as astute as me.

[Private Hudson]

I agree with you PTBCAL but sometimes you have to take short-term pain for long term gain.

Clearly there's nothing wrong with loyalty but, no disrespect, blind loyalty is what is going to kill the club. We ae all loyal to the Hearts we know and love, but this is not the Hearts we know and love and hasn't been for a very long time. Whatever the background turmoil, and it's always been there one way or another, it has never affected the football side in such a detrimental way. We are football lepers now. no player or manager in their right mind will touch us until he's gone and we will carry on in this terminal slide.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Completely agreed with the second half of your post.

However, the first bit is not true.

People who profitted from the break up of the Eastern Bloc are not always clever, reasonable or rational.

This "he has money so he must be astute" is absolutely and fundamentaly not the case.

I deal with a lot of them in my business and some, not all, are irrational and unreasonable in the extreme - in fact that is often WHY they have made it!

 

Comparative wealth means little in this case - as a millionaire myself I am not necessarily better, cleverer than you - and if you have more than my ?1.36m P.A. income you may not be as astute as me.

 

This board is full of damn Taxi Drivers.

[Fourcandles]

This board is full of damn Taxi Drivers.

 

I will give money if the cause is right.

[Private Hudson]

Fair do's. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive but to be THAT rich I reckon you'd have to be a little bit clever!

[Drylaw Hearts]

I will give money if the cause is right.

 

Do you have any rich mates ?

[siegementality]

I will give money if the cause is right.

 

Last time any of you feckers get a tip of me.

[Fourcandles]

Fair do's. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive but to be THAT rich I reckon you'd have to be a little bit clever!

 

No, just ruthless and determined and in the breaking up of a Bloc of countries from an artificially held together political and economic system.

[crazy_jambo_2006]

You must be living in La La land if you think that you speak on behalf of Hearts supporters. You are entitled to your opinion but i would wager a bet that this so-called unrest will disappear as soon as a manager is appointed.[/font']

 

Disagree. Appointing a manager (who will prob not get full control) is not enough imo. I only speak for me (not for other fans obv), but it's gone beyond just not having a manager. The unrest cannot be silenced by a token appointment of some random bloke. I believe that people feel they've been lied to + ridiculed. The club is a shambles. We are a laughing stock. I hope VR will sell to a proper football minded businessman,preferably one who is UK based or at least willing to spend time here. If not, VR should make more effort to show up to games +show us he cares.

[Slick 21]

As a Hobo, I would support it, and chuck a few sheckels at it too.

 

Don`t worry. My Tin-Foil hat is strapped on.

[Fourcandles]

Do you have any rich mates ?

 

There are thousands of viewers to Kickback that never post, thousands.

I believe that an alternative to Romanov will rise and defeatism in terms of the power of the customers voice should not carry the day.

 

Good night.

[Drylaw Hearts]

There are thousands of viewers to Kickback that never post, thousands.

I believe that an alternative to Romanov will rise and defeatism in terms of the power of the customers voice should not carry the day.

 

Good night.

 

Good night.

[PTBCAL]

This board is full of damn Taxi Drivers.

 

[H2]

 

but where do we go without him, and how do we get there.

 

Well, we do it the Bush/Blair way , we wage war, get rid of the leader then think duh, what do we do now?

[Drylaw Hearts]

 

[iainmac]

Interesting poll - 86% support for 'SOH2' (sic) and no-one actually knows what the plan is.

 

Can I put my best scouse accent on and say 'calm down, calm down!'?

 

I can't go into too much detail now but I will be in a better position tomorrow. I can confirm that myself and some of my fellow SOH activists held a meeting last week and we decided on a plan of action.

 

We agreed on a phased approach:

 

Last week we implemented Phase 1 - a media campaign to remind people what we are about.

 

Today we implemented Phase 2 - more about that tomorrow.

 

Hopefully we'll never have to implement Phase 3!

 

It's very disappointing to see that people think that we've just been sitting on our hands doing nothing when, in actual fact, we've been working quietly in the background without the need to go public - with the obvious exception of Phase 1!

[sp&cp]

I've never seen Hearts in such a bad way. I'm actaully getting to the point i don't really care what the Romanovs are doing at OUR football club.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Interesting poll - 86% support for 'SOH2' (sic) and no-one actually knows what the plan is.

 

Can I put my best scouse accent on and say 'calm down, calm down!'?

 

I can't go into too much detail now but I will be in a better position tomorrow. I can confirm that myself and some of my fellow SOH activists held a meeting last week and we decided on a plan of action.

 

We agreed on a phased approach:

 

Last week we implemented Phase 1 - a media campaign to remind people what we are about.

 

Today we implemented Phase 2 - more about that tomorrow.

 

Hopefully we'll never have to implement Phase 3!

 

It's very disappointing to see that people think that we've just been sitting on our hands doing nothing when, in actual fact, we've been working quietly in the background without the need to go public - with the obvious exception of Phase 1!

 

Very good news and extremely heartening to hear, Iain.

 

The 86% is also an incentive that cannot be ignored.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Very good news and extremely heartening to hear, Iain.

 

The 86% is also an incentive that cannot be ignored.

 

Agreed.

[bighalders]

I'll do all I can to help. Also, if 86% are backing "nothing" in that we don't really know what is being done here then expect a big groundswell of support once the plan becomes clear. Glad SOH are still around and doing all they can for HMFC

[Coco]

Can anybody explain to me what the benefits of stadium ownership are? As far as I can see Hearts owning tynecastle has simply meant the cub can continually borrow money and live way beyond it's means for more than a decade now when we've made big losses year on year.

 

Hardly any of the Italian clubs own their stadiums which are rented from the local municipal council - certainly this is the case with AC Milan / Inter Milan who share the same stadium although they each have their own name for the 'same' stadium. I'm not even sure they own their training grounds or if these are rented as well? They rely on the income that their supporters, commercial activities & sponsorship plus whatever other funds their owners or backers are willing to provide.

 

As far as I can see owning tynecastle has permitted poor financial management over a long number of years that as lead us to where we are today. I also think the stadium is far too small if we ever have any ambitions of making a regular challenge as 17.5K doesn't provide nearly enough matchday income....at least with terracing crowds could swell to 30-40K for big matches or in good seasons etc. but this is no longer true.

 

EVERY match we have played at Murrayfield including friendlies has generated bigger attendances than could be accommodated at the current 17.5K capacity tynecastle.

 

Is that going to be the 'line' from now on?

 

That owning an asset has 'permitted poor financial management'?

 

There has not been a significant profit or cash flow from playing games at Murrayfield.

 

What the club needs is less lunatic management than that under the Pieman and Romanov. Nothing to do with the need to sell the stadium so that poor financial management cannot be permitted.

[Therapist]

I see Mr Romanov has just put another boot into the long-suffering fans by announcing a debt-for-equity swap valued at ?12 million.

[doctor jambo]

No from me at present

Though I do think this idea is a better one than Shaun's

These guys have been through the hoops before, and if I recall engenders genuine media support and sympathy, something we have not had for a long time

They are also less prone to panic and ranting

I dont think there is a crisis at present, yet the mere fact that SOH still exists and can meet at any level negates the need for other pressure groups

So, I support the fact that SOH exists and can mobilise if needs be,

but it should remain dormant at present

[Seymour M Hersh]

No, just ruthless and determined and in the breaking up of a Bloc of countries from an artificially held together political and economic system.

 

You've still got to be able to spot opportunities and take advantage of them. That takes commercial awareness which i would equate to smarts! But you are right in saying you also have to be ruthless and determined/driven. You also have to have a pair to take the risks (with your own money).

[H2]

Does the equity share announcement change anyone's vote?

[PTBCAL]

Does the equity release news mean we are scrapping SOH2?

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Does the equity release news mean we are scrapping SOH2?

 

Why? Does it include a manager with full control of team selection?

[PTBCAL]

Why? Does it include a manager with full control of team selection?

 

I was being sarcastic.

[H2]

I was being sarcastic.

 

I think there is a message in there somewhere.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Today we implemented Phase 2 - more about that tomorrow.

 

Will that still happen or will we get a revised edition?

Given that some of the "well kent" hearts supporters met with the hearts board to hear its plans yesterday were any of the SOH folk there and is that taken into there planed action for today?

[ando]

Will that still happen or will we get a revised edition?

Given that some of the "well kent" hearts supporters met with the hearts board to hear its plans yesterday were any of the SOH folk there and is that taken into there planed action for today?

 

the G10 also met with HMFC

[jambos are go!]

Will SOH2 match VRs 12million or walk off into the sunset? Will we pass over ?12 million of VRs money and drive him out over the issue of the managers job description and nationality?

 

Call of the boycott now and renew efforts to bring the club,fans and business back together I say.

[ando]

Will SOH2 match VRs 12million or walk off into the sunset? Will we pass over ?12 million of VRs money and drive him out over the issue of the managers job description and nationality? Call of the boycott now and renew efforts to bring the club,fans and business back together I say.

cant speak for the G10 but i think the meeting before was about the above

[H2]

Will SOH2 match VRs 12million or walk off into the sunset? Will we pass over ?12 million of VRs money and drive him out over the issue of the managers job description and nationality?

 

Call of the boycott now and renew efforts to bring the club,fans and business back together I say.

 

I tend to agree with you.

[PTBCAL]

I think there is a message in there somewhere.

 

Opps. Apologies to WATH.

 

I have 'heard' this message.

[shaun.lawson]

Opps. Apologies to WATH.

 

I have 'heard' this message.

 

[Only a Game]

I see Mr Romanov has just put another boot into the long-suffering fans by announcing a debt-for-equity swap valued at ?12 million.

 

Can you explain to us football fans how this magnifient gesture that it undoubtedly is ( not just a financial paper shuffling excercise that it looks at first glance), anyway can you explain how this gesture impacts on our chances of beating Motherwell in 4 weeks time ? (because thats all I'm fecking interested in)

[Genghis Khan]

Can you explain to us football fans how this magnifient gesture that it undoubtedly is ( not just a financial paper shuffling excercise that it looks at first glance), anyway can you explain how this gesture impacts on our chances of beating Motherwell in 4 weeks time ? (because thats all I'm fecking interested in)

 

That's got to be the most short-sighted opinion ever expressed on this board. ?12M of debt written off and a manager about to be appointed (apparently) and all you are worrying about is the first league game?

 

If we win that, is everything OK then?

[Sheriff Fatman]

Last week we implemented Phase 1 - a media campaign to remind people what we are about.

 

 

I think you might want to sack your media campaign runner then as this thread shows that nobody has a clue what you are about. Is it yet another pressure group, it it another attempt to raise money to buy shares, is it an attempt to find someone to buy Romanov out.

 

I ain't voting on anything until I know what it is. The last time we jumped of a fence and blindly went for an option without finding out all the details we ended up with Romanov.

[Therapist]

Can you explain to us football fans how this magnifient gesture that it undoubtedly is ( not just a financial paper shuffling excercise that it looks at first glance), anyway can you explain how this gesture impacts on our chances of beating Motherwell in 4 weeks time ? (because thats all I'm fecking interested in)

 

As has been proved many times on this forum, some "fans" aren't happy unless they're unhappy. :sheep:

[Only a Game]

That's got to be the most short-sighted opinion ever expressed on this board. ?12M of debt written off and a manager about to be appointed (apparently) and all you are worrying about is the first league game?

If we win that, is everything OK then?

 

Pardon me for worrying how Heart of Midlothian Football Club are going to fare on the pitch this season.

 

I wouldnt even go as far as to say we have to win it. Everything WILL be okay if we have a manager picking the team though.

 

You said yourself, APPARENTLY. I'll be as happy as the next Jambo when APPARENTLY becomes ACTUALLY. Until then, moving ?12m from one sheet of paper to another means feck all to anyone.

[Only a Game]

As has been proved many times on this forum, some "fans" aren't happy unless they're unhappy. :sheep:

 

Can you answer my question ?

 

I'll ask it again for you case you missed it.

 

How does transferring ?12m from under one mattress to under another mattress help the immediate footballing prospects of the club ?

 

[redm]

Okay, we know that the G10 and SOH met with Hearts yesterday, presumably to be told about the plans announced this morning.

 

But do any fans reps want to tell us what else was said at these meetings? Did they ask any questions and if so, what were the answers?