Irving

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He was very good when he really broke through in 05/06 at 18 or so. One of the better young players in the country at that time. Suffered through all the manager changes and all that and always seemed to be a confidence player so when it went wrong he couldn't get it back.

He played in a team of superstars. Anyone would have looked good. 

[Last Laff]

3 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

He played in a team of superstars. Anyone would have looked good. 

And he wasn’t one of the better youngsters in the country.  Fletcher was a level ahead of him in the same Scotland team that reached the Euro finals. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

58 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Irvings in the first team though?  

At championship level he is, but from Neilsons perspective, the jury is still out on whether he can prove to be of the quality level and consistency level which we will need to use every penny of our budget to upgrade our squad to, in order to be in the top 3 midfields and teams in Scotland, which is Hearts expectations. 

 

In saying that I do think you and me are mostly on the same page tho, Irving has definitely done enough to warrant a good first team level contract which keeps him firmly in our plans for the next 2-3 years with a view to upgrading that contract if he shows the progress in the premiership which we need him to make in short order when we get promoted. Because the fans expectation will be to finish above Hibs first season back, and they currently sit 2nd in the league. So we are going to need quality and consistency in the building urgently. 
 

Edited December 15, 2020 by A_A wehatethehibs

[Diego10]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

Irvings in the first team though?  

Yes, and if we sign him now great.  But some folk want us to be able to second guess which players will develop and sign them to long term contracts like it's simple when it's actually a pretty complicated thing to get right

[Diego10]

2 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

And failing to get good players signed up for a decent time is the same. Irving's form is not a flash in the pan.  Three grand a week and a 4 or 5 year contract would not be a bad gamble. I'm betting that we have several players on more that.

Is he willing to sign a 5 year contract?  3 grand a week is a high wage for where we are

[upgotheheads]

2 minutes ago, Diego10 said:

Is he willing to sign a 5 year contract?  3 grand a week is a high wage for where we are

 

It's a gamble, but only on his fitness. He's never suffered a prolonged injury as far as I know, he's a big lad, mobile and athletic. It would be one for the medics, but like racehorses (sorry Andy) there's people who know how to judge these things. His talent is not in doubt, and I've been around long enough to know. And before anyone says he's not the quickest:  he doesn't need to be, because he knows where to be. The best players don't run about like headless chickens

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 hours ago, Last Laff said:

And he wasn’t one of the better youngsters in the country.  Fletcher was a level ahead of him in the same Scotland team that reached the Euro finals. 

I watched both at U20/21 level and Elliot looked the better prospect at the time. He definitely was one of the better youngsters - nominated for YPOY if I remember rightly.

Edited December 15, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[jr ewing]

2 years would seem a reasonable deal  for both parties. Can always put in the mysterious 1 year option. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

And failing to get good players signed up for a decent time is the same. Irving's form is not a flash in the pan.  Three grand a week and a 4 or 5 year contract would not be a bad gamble. I'm betting that we have several players on more that.

 

That would be a £600k or £750k  gamble. 

 

[Last Laff]

3 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

I watched both at U20/21 level and Elliot looked the better prospect at the time. He definitely was one of the better youngsters - nominated for YPOY if I remember rightly.

 

No he didn't  Fletcher was Scotlands best player and everyone was gutted he missed the final.  Shotgun was the best Hearts player even at the tournament or are you saying Elliot was a better prospect at the time than him? 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Last Laff

[Finlay James]

The fact is, we know the club rate him and by starting contract negotiations, clearly see him as part of our plans going forward.

 

Theres been a lot of chat on this thread about the risks of getting the balance right when giving players improved contracts and the player that reminds me of is Stephen Simmons.  He was a standout when he broke through and made his debut, I think, at Celtic Park.  He was so good even the Celtic players were telling him well done at the end of the game.    He was also talked about as a future Scotland captain.  He was given a 5 year contract and that was the last we ever saw of his huge potential.  Levein openly said he would never do that again.

 

Andy doesn't appear the type to lose his head.  He's done the hard yards to get to the level he's currently at and he deserves to now be seen as one of the senior players in the squad and a first pick on the team sheet.  If he keeps developing, he could be worth millions to us in future.

[Skacelsid]

He is being well treated by Hearts regarding game time and his development. He should be offered a contract extension but that must be within our budget. It will then be up to him and his agent. Any contract will contain clauses whereby he can leave if an agreeable bid comes in. Players come and go that is the way it is, whether he goes or stays our club needs to benefit either way. 

[JamboAl]

22 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

He is being well treated by Hearts regarding game time and his development. He should be offered a contract extension but that must be within our budget. It will then be up to him and his agent. Any contract will contain clauses whereby he can leave if an agreeable bid comes in. Players come and go that is the way it is, whether he goes or stays our club needs to benefit either way. 

Exactly.

[DS98]

8 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

No he didn't  Fletcher was Scotlands best player and everyone was gutted he missed the final.  Shotgun was the best Hearts player even at the tournament or are you saying Elliot was a better prospect at the time than him? 

Not read this thread but stumbled across this.

 

Calum Elliot was the biggest ‘prospect’ we’ve ever had at Riccarton. And yes, held in higher regard than Wallace. If you asked people really involved with the team or football around then they would say the same. The youth team he was in was probably the best we ever had. Won the Milk cup and Elliot got player of the tournament iirc. 

[DS98]

15 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

And failing to get good players signed up for a decent time is the same. Irving's form is not a flash in the pan.  Three grand a week and a 4 or 5 year contract would not be a bad gamble. I'm betting that we have several players on more that.

Neil Janczyk, Stephen Simmons, Gary Glen, Jason Holt. 
 

Just some examples that young players should play at least 100 games before being offered big deals. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

From an “investment” or “ asset” perspective the club need to realise that whilst he might not be quite as good as Hickey as he plays in a more forward role will be worth as much if he re-signs and develops his talent as attacking players are worth more than defenders.

[GinRummy]

8 hours ago, DS98 said:

Neil Janczyk, Stephen Simmons, Gary Glen, Jason Holt. 
 

Just some examples that young players should play at least 100 games before being offered big deals. 

Fair point but did Holt not leave for free when he had some value?

[Pilmuir]

9 hours ago, Skacelsid said:

He is being well treated by Hearts regarding game time and his development. He should be offered a contract extension but that must be within our budget. It will then be up to him and his agent. Any contract will contain clauses whereby he can leave if an agreeable bid comes in. Players come and go that is the way it is, whether he goes or stays our club needs to benefit either way. 

That’s what should happen but somehow we messed it up with Paterson. Maybe the “within budget” part was the issue, don’t know.

 

I think we’ve seen enough of Irving to realise his potential.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

Is Andy Irving ready to play from the start in this cup final, that is the main question this week.

The lad has got bags of potential, experience will take first priority on this one though.

[JamboAl]

50 minutes ago, Pilmuir said:

That’s what should happen but somehow we messed it up with Paterson. Maybe the “within budget” part was the issue, don’t know.

 

I think we’ve seen enough of Irving to realise his potential.

I don't think we messed up with Paterson at all.  He simply wanted to try his luck at a better level and we got a development fee.  He himself insisted on a sell on clause in his contract (which he didn't need to do) so no doubt we would get something from the Sheff Wed transfer.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I don't think we messed up with Paterson at all.  He simply wanted to try his luck at a better level and we got a development fee.  He himself insisted on a sell on clause in his contract (which he didn't need to do) so no doubt we would get something from the Sheff Wed transfer.

Callum will be back with us next season.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 hour ago, Pilmuir said:

That’s what should happen but somehow we messed it up with Paterson. Maybe the “within budget” part was the issue, don’t know.

 

I think we’ve seen enough of Irving to realise his potential.

Dont think we messed anything up with Paterson. He played 150 or so games for us and wanted to move on. Now he’s gone on to over 100 games at a higher level. What exactly did we get wrong? He decided he intended to leave the club on a Bosman and that was that. 

[Russ1977]

1 hour ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Is Andy Irving ready to play from the start in this cup final, that is the main question this week.

The lad has got bags of potential, experience will take first priority on this one though.

Irving should 100% start in the final. He’s the one midfielder we’ve got that can open teams up with his passing. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

22 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Callum will be back with us next season.

Judging by his rating from the game the other day, could be back in January! 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Judging by his rating from the game the other day, could be back in January! 

Ah the thing is he nearly came to us recently, is homesick and misses the banter.

There's a guy outside the Chip shop swears he's Elvis.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

10 minutes ago, Russ1977 said:

Irving should 100% start in the final. He’s the one midfielder we’ve got that can open teams up with his passing. 

Haring Irving Lee it is then, 100 per cent agree with your comment on Andy Irving.

Lee has been putting in some delicious crosses into the kill zone.

Haring must play to give us a settled mind set.

So no Halliday who has played many top fixtures, a lot of experience.

Am i wrong here or  ?

[Russ1977]

10 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Haring Irving Lee it is then, 100 per cent agree with your comment on Andy Irving.

Lee has been putting in some delicious crosses into the kill zone.

Haring must play to give us a settled mind set.

So no Halliday who has played many top fixtures, a lot of experience.

Am i wrong here or  ?

For me Haring and Irving must start, I’m not overly fussed about lee or Halliday if I’m honest. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

Just now, Russ1977 said:

For me Haring and Irving must start, I’m not overly fussed about lee or Halliday if I’m honest. 

Lee is on some type of form , you must be joking,

Sure if we had choices there would be better players to choose from.

Andy Irving deserves to be first choice, it hardly works out that way though in these Big games.

Would drop Naisy before Irving or Lee. Halliday needs to play further forward.

What is your suggestion for the kick off line up ?

[A_A wehatethehibs]

23 minutes ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Ah the thing is he nearly came to us recently, is homesick and misses the banter.

There's a guy outside the Chip shop swears he's Elvis.

The #9 jersey is free! 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

The #9 jersey is free! 

Free transfer.

Tynecastle Park home of Heart of Midlothian Fc

[DS98]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Fair point but did Holt not leave for free when he had some value?

Perhaps. That wasn’t my main point though. It was more that players who burst on the scene and are claimed the next best thing rarely fulfil their potential. So 100 games in the first team is a good gauge. I can’t remember many of our products that I though we missed a trick for not tying them down. Hickey is the obvious one. Before him I’m struggling though. Allan Johnston? 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, DS98 said:

Perhaps. That wasn’t my main point though. It was more that players who burst on the scene and are claimed the next best thing rarely fulfil their potential. So 100 games in the first team is a good gauge. I can’t remember many of our products that I though we missed a trick for not tying them down. Hickey is the obvious one. Before him I’m struggling though. Allan Johnston? 

It’s certainly been slim pickings for youngsters with any sell on value. I was being nit picky in my previous post but I do agree with your point. 

[Glamorgan Jambo]

4 hours ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

Callum will be back with us next season.

 

There's a million reasons Callum will likely be going nowhere until the end of nest season.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

3 minutes ago, Glamorgan Jambo said:

 

There's a million reasons Callum will likely be going nowhere until the end of nest season.

We will wait and see.

There's a guy out side the chip shop swears he's Elvis.

[gregzy2k7]

I really hope the boy starts on Sunday, He is the one man who drives us forward from midfield and looks to create chances for the strikers/wingers.

 

[Byyy The Light]

Fully behind him if he starts Sunday. Will show we’re going to have a go. Youthful exuberance with no fear and trying to be the hero is exactly what we need.

[Kiwidoug]

This where head coaches really earn their money.  Irving or Lee or both.  What about Halliday.  What about Ginelly.  I couldn't pick the team or the tactics to save myself.

[wavydavy]

16 hours ago, Russ1977 said:

Irving should 100% start in the final. He’s the one midfielder we’ve got that can open teams up with his passing. 

 

Agree 100%.

[Gorgie Boot boy]

If we were in the SPL Andy would be a strong choice to start games. the chat about him only playing due to us being a championship side.

Terrible stuff.

Andy will have suitors, this is the game for him to shine.

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

If we were in the SPL Andy would be a strong choice to start games. the chat about him only playing due to us being a championship side.

Terrible stuff.

Andy will have suitors, this is the game for him to shine.

The big pitch at Hampden will be a dream for him with his range of passing. He's the key to us winning on Sunday. Can't wait. 

 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

Getting the balance around Haring is the most important part of Sunday's game.

[Last Laff]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

The big pitch at Hampden will be a dream for him with his range of passing. He's the key to us winning on Sunday. Can't wait. 

 

 

He wont play. 

[Gorgie Boot boy]

16 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

He wont play. 

Who told you that ?

[upgotheheads]

16 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

He wont play. 

 

Jeezo, I'm guessing you wrote that considered analysis about 2am.

Been drinking?

[Boris]

Irving only started on Saturday as Haring had a niggle.

 

But...his performance gives RN a headache.

 

I'd play him with Haring.

 

Which means one of Lee, Halliday, Walker or White gets the gig.

 

Assuming, of course, Ginnelly, Naismith and Boyce start.

[upgotheheads]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

Irving only started on Saturday as Haring had a niggle.

 

But...his performance gives RN a headache.

 

I'd play him with Haring.

 

Which means one of Lee, Halliday, Walker or White gets the gig.

 

Assuming, of course, Ginnelly, Naismith and Boyce start.

 

I will be very surprised if Ginnelly starts, he's played 30 minutes in how long, 6 weeks maybe? So  two of your 4 would start, Lee and Walker, leaving Halliday, White and Ginnelly to come on late in the game, which actually sounds like a good set of options to me. 

I'm not sure how many subs are allowed in this game, is it 5?

[Boris]

1 minute ago, upgotheheads said:

 

I will be very surprised if Ginnelly starts, he's played 30 minutes in how long, 6 weeks maybe? So  two of your 4 would start, Lee and Walker, leaving Halliday, White and Ginnelly to come on late in the game, which actually sounds like a good set of options to me. 

I'm not sure how many subs are allowed in this game, is it 5?

That's a fair point.

[Last Laff]

25 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Jeezo, I'm guessing you wrote that considered analysis about 2am.

Been drinking?

 

Robbie will go with experience.  Absolute cert.  

[Gorgie Boot boy]

10 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

I will be very surprised if Ginnelly starts, he's played 30 minutes in how long, 6 weeks maybe? So  two of your 4 would start, Lee and Walker, leaving Halliday, White and Ginnelly to come on late in the game, which actually sounds like a good set of options to me. 

I'm not sure how many subs are allowed in this game, is it 5?

During the match, three players may still be substituted, except in the event that extra time is played in any match where a team is permitted to use an additional substitute, a fourth in total, during such period of extra time

[upgotheheads]

1 minute ago, Gorgie Boot boy said:

During the match, three players may still be substituted, except in the event that extra time is played in any match where a team is permitted to use an additional substitute, a fourth in total, during such period of extra time

Ta.