SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Lone Striker]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned .... but isn't there several possible outcomes emerging,  as far as who will actually be playing  in the Premiership is concerned ? 

 

A) "No" to Ann's plan this week .... and all clubs able to start playing in July/August           

B) "No" to Ann's plan this week ..... but some clubs unable to start playing in July /August

C) "Yes" to Ann's plan this week .... and all clubs able to start playing in July/August

D) "Yes" to Ann's plan this week .... but some clubs unable to  start playing in July/August 

 

I guess A and B would result in us taking legal action which may or may not result in the SPFL process being declared unlawful.  But B would  also result in the SPFL having to introduce another form of reconstruction which might or might not benefit us (depending on which clubs were absent)

C is what we've been discussing for hundreds of pages and would be the simplest and cheapest outcome for us.

D would effectively undo Ann's approved plan and put everything up in the air again - and puts the onus on the SPFL board to come up with something else,  I guess (same as

 

Still lots of unknowns in this  debacle ......   

[wavydavy]

11 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5626853/queen-of-the-south-dunfermline-releasing/

 

Dont know if this has already been posted but Sun reporting that after Dunfermline released 17 players whose contract are due to expire, Queen of the South are going to release 16 players who were about to be out of contract. It leaves them with 3 players.

 

I suppose with very few players on the books and no sign yet of games restarting then that is one way to stay in business. Most of their other staff will be furloughed I would think so their running costs will be relatively low.

 

Presumably there will be plenty players available on the market come the time when they start playing again and they can sign players nearer that time.

 

Fitness might be an issue but otherwise it seems a sensible approach and means to keeping their clubs afloat.

[JimmyCant]

6 minutes ago, Rods said:

I would much rather have court. 
 

This save Hearts narrative is getting on my nerves. 
 

Been thinking though that the clubs may vote against but the SPFL will say no money for a court case also championship not going to be able to play and will force it through to a top 16 for 2 years. 
 

If it is compensation route I feel 3 million should be the minimum we accept I would be aiming for 5 million. Also hope the other wronged clubs are thinking large amounts. 
 

Clubs like Hibs/St Mirren will save face that way.
 

I am hoping Anne is working on the premise that we are in the championship and preparing to cut cost accordingly. 

Court is a massive gamble we may not win and if we go to court and don’t win it’s going to cost us half a million pounds. 
 

No one at this stage should be preferring court to re-construction.

 

I don’t believe Ann Budge wants to go to court and I dont think she will until this plays out a bit further. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by JimmyCant

[cb1874]

24 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Hes correct all 3 would accept  a pittance from the SPFL as compensation. Unluckily for the SPFL , our turnover is bigger than all 3 put together so our compensation whether voluntary or via court action will cripple them or clubs. Therefore reconstruction is back on the table clubs may not like it but it may be preferable to bankrupcy.  They will have a vote and can decide.

That's if the court case becomes about compensation. It could also be about seeking to make the original resolution vote, null and void, because according to the legal advice given to PTFC, the Dundee vote reversal contravenes the Companies Act 2006. Then the sh)t really would hit the fan. Of course bankruptcy will be one step closer then, due to the inevitable, further delays ...would the SPFL then have to claw back the prize money paid out falsely? Massive, HUGE can of worms waiting to be opened.

It's in everyone's interest for reconstruction to be approved. And as much as several clubs clearly do not want it(out of spite), they may be forced down that route.

Edited May 24, 2020 by cb1874

[SUTOL]

9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

How do all teams benefit by having a 14 team Premiership?  Sorry, but they just don’t. 

 

What do you think are the main drawbacks of 14 team Premiership? 

[Hagar the Horrible]

What gets me is if we still end up out. Even getting more of a parachute payment is about as much use as winning a luxury cruise. You will get norovirus or covid. and no port wants you near them. The championship just wont sail anyway half cant afford to play and half cant afford not too. And no doubt there will be a couple in the top flight fall into either of those categories. So for me those who can play should so the the top ranking sides who want to play should. Even if equates to kelty and brora in the championship. 

 

With 2 clubs shipping over 30 players between them so far. Those than can play can pick and chose better squads. Next week there will be a few hundred players on the scrap heap. But big bad Hearts asking players to take a cut. If the same rules apply down south and its expected that there will be about 1400 players ditched. We should be able to pick up 11 with real quality who were on £30 pw. We could seriously get them on £5k. Its better to kick start our recovery from the top rather than the 2nd tier.

 

We have already an advantage over those who went with the popular SMSM deferred payments. 

[Uberjambo]

18 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

also he is the type who kicks a teammate in the face while they are on the ground

Quite ironic that they ended up as team mates in Glasgow.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Court is a massive gamble we may not win and if we go to court and don’t win it’s going to cost us half a million pounds. 
 

No one at this stage should be preferring court to re-construction.

Court is a more realistic way of achieving anything though.  Reconstruction won’t happen unless some clubs can’t or refuse to play.  I don’t see the court costs as being a problem, the vast majority of fans want this and will fund this possibly with help from the benefactors too.  AB agrees too - her last statement was among the lines of legal costs being expensive but insignificant compared to the costs of demotion. 

[Lone Striker]

20 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Surely the lesson that should be learnt is what chairmen say in public is not necessarily what they do in private. I can see the Ross County owner just setting a position in case things become a disaster after reconstruction "I said before a 12 team league was fine but I pressured to vote for reconstruction to bail out Hearts."

Indeed so. 👍  I hope Ann is recording her video chats with club chairmen   

 

" Hi Leanne... are you able to support the plan ?"

"Yes Ann, we'll be delighted to support it in recognition of our friendly relationship").

 

Name and shame these snakes !!

[Riccarton3]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Court is a more realistic way of achieving anything though.  Reconstruction won’t happen unless some clubs can’t or refuse to play.  I don’t see the court costs as being a problem, the vast majority of fans want this and will fund this possibly with help from the benefactors too.  AB agrees too - her last statement was among the lines of legal costs being expensive but insignificant compared to the costs of demotion. 

Indeed. And she never even referred to it as unfortunate if it came to that. No apology for it. Just business.

[milky_26]

7 minutes ago, Uberjambo said:

Quite ironic that they ended up as team mates in Glasgow.

berkovic left celtic in 2001 the same year hartson joined

[bigmack]

5 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

What gets me is if we still end up out. Even getting more of a parachute payment is about as much use as winning a luxury cruise. You will get norovirus or covid. and no port wants you near them. The championship just wont sail anyway half cant afford to play and half cant afford not too. And no doubt there will be a couple in the top flight fall into either of those categories. So for me those who can play should so the the top ranking sides who want to play should. Even if equates to kelty and brora in the championship. 

 

With 2 clubs shipping over 30 players between them so far. Those than can play can pick and chose better squads. Next week there will be a few hundred players on the scrap heap. But big bad Hearts asking players to take a cut. If the same rules apply down south and its expected that there will be about 1400 players ditched. We should be able to pick up 11 with real quality who were on £30 pw. We could seriously get them on £5k. Its better to kick start our recovery from the top rather than the 2nd tier.

 

We have already an advantage over those who went with the popular SMSM deferred payments. 

you think Hearts should be offering 5K  PW😳  

[Koolkeith]

46 minutes ago, S Form said:

Says he will give Ann's plan consideration it but if it were Ross County, Hamilton or St Mirren in our place nobody would be talking about it.

The keep coming trotting out this excuse. Total nonsense and irrelevant. No club should be punished unfairly given the situation.

[Koolkeith]

45 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

and as a show of god faith, there could be money set aside for lower league teams to help them survive until fans are allowed back into stadiums

Could even loan out players to clubs to help out.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Just now, bigmack said:

you think Hearts should be offering 5K  PW😳  

Seriously we could either get players we are used to getting and pay less or pay what we currently do and get a much better standard. Notwithstanding a KEEPER! Its going to be a better market place 

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Court is a more realistic way of achieving anything though.  Reconstruction won’t happen unless some clubs can’t or refuse to play.  I don’t see the court costs as being a problem, the vast majority of fans want this and will fund this possibly with help from the benefactors too.  AB agrees too - her last statement was among the lines of legal costs being expensive but insignificant compared to the costs of demotion. 

I suspect you are correct on reconstruction and it will be voted down. Following that I expect her to formally appeal direct to the SPFL for compensation. That’s probably not going to yield a result but we need to force them to say no to that to go to the next stage.

 

We might then refer the case to CAS. Very little said about CAS so far.

 

‘Going to Court’ is a classic bargaining position, used frequently by companies in dispute but rarely actually followed through.

 

I think she MIGHT take that threat a stage further by lodging papers hoping to secure an out of court deal. If we get our bluff called on that we’ll be faced with a huge decision. All in or fold. I think she’ll fold.

[Bazzas right boot]

24 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

How do all teams benefit by having a 14 team Premiership?  Sorry, but they just don’t. 

 

 

Tbh, teams might no benefit, but they are also not affected by it. 

 

14 teams also gets an equal fixture list, same number of home and away fixtures. 

 

What is the disadvantages of  a 14 team league over a 12 team set up? 

I can't think of any? 

[jr ewing]

34 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5626853/queen-of-the-south-dunfermline-releasing/

 

Dont know if this has already been posted but Sun reporting that after Dunfermline released 17 players whose contract are due to expire, Queen of the South are going to release 16 players who were about to be out of contract. It leaves them with 3 players.

No salary problem when they're replaced by amateurs. 

[communist]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I suspect you are correct on reconstruction and it will be voted down. Following that I expect her to formally appeal direct to the SPFL for compensation. That’s probably not going to yield a result but we need to force them to say no to that to go to the next stage.

 

We might then refer the case to CAS. Very little said about CAS so far.

 

‘Going to Court’ is a classic bargaining position, used frequently by companies in dispute but rarely actually followed through.

 

I think she MIGHT take that threat a stage further by lodging papers hoping to secure an out of court deal. If we get our bluff called on that we’ll be faced with a huge decision. All in or fold. I think she’ll fold.

 

Definitely, it's all just bravado and the sooner the club realises we will be playing in the championship, and starts properly preparing for it, the better. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by communist

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I suspect you are correct on reconstruction and it will be voted down. Following that I expect her to formally appeal direct to the SPFL for compensation. That’s probably not going to yield a result but we need to force them to say no to that to go to the next stage.

 

We might then refer the case to CAS. Very little said about CAS so far.

 

‘Going to Court’ is a classic bargaining position, used frequently by companies in dispute but rarely actually followed through.

 

I think she MIGHT take that threat a stage further by lodging papers hoping to secure an out of court deal. If we get our bluff called on that we’ll be faced with a huge decision. All in or fold. I think she’ll fold.

 

 

She won't fold if our case is reviewed and the chances are good. 

Why would she? Where is the logic in that? 

 

We won't go to court if we have no case or our chances are low. 

 

Her decision will be based on legal advice and merit either way. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[communist]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

She won't fold if our case or reviews and the chances are good. 

Why would she? Where is the logic in that? 

 

 

 

The chances are miserable at best. Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I can't see anything changing. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, communist said:

 

The chances are miserable at best. Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I can't see anything changing. 

 

 

Based on what? 

 

They may be and in that case we won't go to court. 

 

However, the fact reconstruction is even back on the table suggests there is some weight in our case, or clubs would just have said sit down, shut up and see you. 

They haven't. 

 

Said from the start I think we will go to court if need be and we have a legal case, rangers won't. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[redjambo]

Just now, communist said:

 

Definitely, it's all just bravado and the sooner the club realises we will be playings in the championship, and starts properly preparing for it, the better. 

 

With defeatist folk like you on our side, who needs enemies?

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I suspect you are correct on reconstruction and it will be voted down. Following that I expect her to formally appeal direct to the SPFL for compensation. That’s probably not going to yield a result but we need to force them to say no to that to go to the next stage.

 

We might then refer the case to CAS. Very little said about CAS so far.

 

‘Going to Court’ is a classic bargaining position, used frequently by companies in dispute but rarely actually followed through.

 

I think she MIGHT take that threat a stage further by lodging papers hoping to secure an out of court deal. If we get our bluff called on that we’ll be faced with a huge decision. All in or fold. I think she’ll fold.

 

The next step is an appeal to the SFA

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

The next step is an appeal to the SFA

 

😂😂😂😂😂

[jake]

3 minutes ago, communist said:

 

Definitely, it's all just bravado and the sooner the club realises we will be playings in the championship, and starts properly preparing for it, the better. 

I was the same .

Not now.

 

[communist]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Based on what? 

 

They may be and in that case we won't go to court. 

 

However, the fact reconstruction is even back on the table suggests there is some weight in our case, or clubs would just have said sit down, shut up and see you. 

They haven't. 

 

Based on the fact is the Scottish football, reconstruction talks have already broken down once, the TV deal, votes needed for change & the lack of desire from most other clubs. 

 

 

[communist]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

With defeatist folk like you on our side, who needs enemies?

 

I would be happy to be proven wrong on all this, but I honestly thought that dropping down and clearing out of all the dross in the squad could be more beneficial and enjoyable than staying up and having to suffer another season watching that crap. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Please not Robbo. 

 

In truth he isn't a stand out manager but seeing the hate directed at CL and Mackay I really don't want things to go south with him. 

Robbie is better than Robbo, so if going down that route.... 

 

For the top flight I'd keep Stendel and if not him, someone with a better record than Robbo. 

I want someone not gripped by the OF fear, basically a foreigner. 

 

For the championship, any chump will do tbh. Kirk maybe even. 

[manaliveits105]

12 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Tbh, teams might no benefit, but they are also not affected by it. 

 

14 teams also gets an equal fixture list, same number of home and away fixtures. 

 

What is the disadvantages of  a 14 team league over a 12 team set up? 

I can't think of any? 

Hubz lose 9-12 points more a season to us 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, communist said:

 

Based on the fact is the Scottish football, reconstruction talks have already broken down once, the TV deal, votes needed for change & the lack of desire from most other clubs. 

 

 

 

I generally agree with the sentiments, All irrelevant in terms of court action tho. 

[BelgeJambo]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

Dear Editor , That doesnae help your challenged readership understand why.

Or what have you done to eradicate it in the future 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

Hubz lose 9-12 points more a season to us 

 

So the reason a 14 league team is worse than a 12 team league is that teams might get beat? 

[Deevers]

15 minutes ago, communist said:

 

The chances are miserable at best. Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I can't see anything changing. 

Certainly not from the legal advice both Patrick Thistle and ourselves have had. 

[Rods]

3 minutes ago, communist said:

 

Based on the fact is the Scottish football, reconstruction talks have already broken down once, the TV deal, votes needed for change & the lack of desire from most other clubs. 

 

 

 

You have to take a step back and ask yourself why the reconstruction talks are back on the table? 

 

Its either the fear of court or something else. These clubs are only interested in money so we can rule out sporting integrity.

 

 

[Jambo66]

20 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I suspect you are correct on reconstruction and it will be voted down. Following that I expect her to formally appeal direct to the SPFL for compensation. That’s probably not going to yield a result but we need to force them to say no to that to go to the next stage.

 

We might then refer the case to CAS. Very little said about CAS so far.

 

‘Going to Court’ is a classic bargaining position, used frequently by companies in dispute but rarely actually followed through.

 

I think she MIGHT take that threat a stage further by lodging papers hoping to secure an out of court deal. If we get our bluff called on that we’ll be faced with a huge decision. All in or fold. I think she’ll fold.

My feeling is that she will take court action. However, she knows that court action is and should be a last resort.

[communist]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I generally agree with the sentiments, All irrelevant in terms of court action tho. 

 

We will just have see if it gets that far. I doubt it will. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, communist said:

 

We will just have see if it gets that far. I doubt it will. 

 

The odds would say you are correct. 

 

Strange times tho. 

👍

[redjambo]

Just now, communist said:

 

I would be happy to be proven wrong on all this, but I honestly thought that dropping down and clearing out of all the dross in the squad could be more beneficial and enjoyable than staying up and having to suffer another season watching that crap. 

 

It's a fair point that we need a good clearout and reorganisation, and if we had been relegated fairly and squarely then I would have been disappointed but would have welcomed the opportunity to do exactly that.

 

However, this is a different kettle of fish altogether due to (i) the significant injustice that needs to be addressed (not only to our club but to others too) by the leagues being called early; and (ii) the pandemic crisis which means that being expelled to the Championship could actually provide an existential threat. I also believe that we have a case that is more solid than you would think.

 

As long as it is to our benefit in doing so, we should take this all the way.

[Jambo66]

3 minutes ago, communist said:

 

We will just have see if it gets that far. I doubt it will. 

You're a right cheery soul 🤨

[1874jrs]

With Davie Provan's article today think it's dawned on Celtic  they will pay most for any successful court action by hearts. Watch for more backing reconstruction. It will only happen if the old firm force a number of clubs hand

[HMFC01]

4 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Don't know what is wrong with me today. Yesterday, after listening to 2 minutes of Sportsound I was raging and because of that, felt positive and hopeful of future.

 

Today, had a scout at papers and feel quite down about it. Perhaps I need to listen to Sportsound again this afternoon to get annoyed again, and get my anger up again.

 

I am having a multitude of mood swings myself.  First I am wanting a fair outcome then I want SPFLto get demolished, I want clubs to stay afloat so we have a league then I want them also demolished for being sneaky and comments.  I am going back and forward each day with a willingness to be fair then just outright rage at everything that the SPFL set about and the clubs that followed them.

 

Today didn't help listening to the jokers and Hartson having a rant about Budge.  He said Budge didn't admit to her mistakes, it is my belief she has admitted to mistakes.  That didn't stop them from sticking the boot in again though.   **** 'em all!  Hope it goes to court.

[Jammy T]

41 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Court is a massive gamble we may not win and if we go to court and don’t win it’s going to cost us half a million pounds. 
 

No one at this stage should be preferring court to re-construction.

 

I don’t believe Ann Budge wants to go to court and I dont think she will until this plays out a bit further. 

Often you just need to start court proceedings to get the movement you need.

 

95% or so of court cases don’t finish - they get resolved.

 

I am 99% certain that if we start court proceedings things will change. Some of these idiot Club CEO’s think we are bluffing so they may try and double bluff back.

 

Scottish football is riddled with stupidity and stupid people - we will teach them a lesson.

[redjambo]

Just now, 1874jrs said:

With Davie Provan's article today think it's dawned on Celtic  they will pay most for any successful court action by hearts. Watch for more backing reconstruction. It will only happen if the old firm force a number of clubs hand

 

I don't think Celtic would have endorsed quite such an attack on the SFA and SPFL though. I agree that if reconstruction is favoured by Celtic and the SPFL then they will use their media contacts to put those views forward in order to prepare the ground, but I reckon that Provan's article was his own work, not one inspired by Celtic.

[davemclaren]

48 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Court is a massive gamble we may not win and if we go to court and don’t win it’s going to cost us half a million pounds. 
 

No one at this stage should be preferring court to re-construction.

 

I don’t believe Ann Budge wants to go to court and I dont think she will until this plays out a bit further. 

I think you are correct. 

[GMEdinburgh]

If Ann's plans fail this time , time to step back and leave the SPFL to pick up the pieces. Court action is the last resort for all parties but the SPFL is so toxic and with the current comments from various clubs regarding their future if they go bust or enter administration at least Ann can keep her head up high for at least trying to bring a solution to the table unlike the leadership at the SPFL or SFA. The SPFL have started this mess and don't appear to have a plan b or any idea how to resolve it. On one hand they set the agenda and when it goes tits up it's the clubs that are to blame. 

[communist]

1 minute ago, Jambo66 said:

You're a right cheery soul 🤨

 

I do enjoy a moan, I won't deny it, but I wants what best for Hearts, if we take our eye off the ball for the coming season, and don't get appointments/recruitment done correctly and early enough, we will be playing catch up again, Ann wasn't exactly quick in replacing levein, or with replacing macphee with Stendel, she isn't really known for quick footballing department decisions, and I'll I see coming from a court case, is even less urgency on that front once again. 

 

Above all I want a good team to watch winning matches, its not been seen for far too long, and being demoted was the best chance of offloading some of the catastrophic signings. 

[Deevers]

3 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

Often you just need to start court proceedings to get the movement you need.

 

95% or so of court cases don’t finish - they get resolved.

 

I am 99% certain that if we start court proceedings things will change. Some of these idiot Club CEO’s think we are bluffing so they may try and double bluff back.

 

Scottish football is riddled with stupidity and stupid people - we will teach them a lesson.

I think you are correct. It will take a start to litigation to drive some of these idiots to their senses. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

27 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Tbh, teams might no benefit, but they are also not affected by it. 

 

14 teams also gets an equal fixture list, same number of home and away fixtures. 

 

What is the disadvantages of  a 14 team league over a 12 team set up? 

I can't think of any? 

You’re right, the 12 team set up is the worst we could possibly have but some clubs have said they think it works!

 

Unfortunately we have a culture here where clubs are only interested in change if it benefits them.  Add the resentment that some clubs have because they’re being forced to rush through changes just because it is to save Hearts, there is no chance of getting voted through.  I appreciate AB has to go through the motions but I hope she doesn’t waste much time with it so we can quickly move onto the next stage before the fixture lists come  out. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, GMEdinburgh said:

If Ann's plans fail this time, time to step back and leave the SPFL to pick up the pieces. Court action is the last resort for all parties but the SPFL is so toxic and with the current comments from various clubs regarding their future if they go bust or enter administration at least Ann can keep her head up high for at least trying to bring a solution to the table unlike the leadership at the SPFL or SFA. The SPFL have started this mess and don't appear to have a plan b or any idea how to resolve it. On one hand they set the agenda and when it goes tits up it's the clubs that are to blame. 

 

Nope. It will be time to let the lawyers loose on the SPFL.