SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Turkishcap]

24 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

Brilliant post Hagar.  Keep them coming

 

Agree cracking summary.

[Newton51]

12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

While I'm pleased to see all the optimism and positivity about the outcome of the arbitration hearing, I still remain very cautious. The panel will reach their decision on the lawfulness or otherwise of what has happened.

 

I fear that there will be a number of irregularities or poor practices identified, but that the panel will find that the letter of the law has not been broken (nor SPF's AoA or Rules), therefore the status quo will be maintained, with the costs to be borne by Hearts & PT.

 

So I remain in the "fear the worst" camp, but "hoping for the best"

I’m similar but surely there would be compensation offered at least. Maybe not the figures we have been asking about tho

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Fair enough.

 

‘This arbitration won’t really have any time for morality or perceived fairness’

 

Is this actually true? Seems a shame for a process called arbitration, dealing with a case of unfair prejudice.

 

I assume what he means is that they’ll look plain and simple at whether the SPFL were entitled to do what they did according to the rules.

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

While I'm pleased to see all the optimism and positivity about the outcome of the arbitration hearing, I still remain very cautious. The panel will reach their decision on the lawfulness or otherwise of what has happened.

 

I fear that there will be a number of irregularities or poor practices identified, but that the panel will find that the letter of the law has not been broken (nor SPF's AoA or Rules), therefore the status quo will be maintained, with the costs to be borne by Hearts & PT.

 

So I remain in the "fear the worst" camp, but "hoping for the best"

 

I agree, incompetence, poor due diligence, unfairness etc are all poor practice but we are still stretching for illegality and ones so severe that a fitting compensation package will be millions. 

Being a complete shit show and illegal are two different things. 

 

Will an arbitration not look at fairer solutions possible and things like mitigation and practicalities and ask why certain things were an option, but not others? Or is it more of the same, which is mainly legal jargon and fine print. 

 

Arbitration by name should be more about practical and fairer solutions as opposed to blame, but it feels more and more  like a court case, just in a different setting. 

 

[Poseidon]

5 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

When is the Scottish Cup pencilled one for? Genuine question.

think someone said November but obviously not confirmed 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, firsttimecaller said:

The simple difference is that Bonnyrigg Rose did not seek to pursue actions that they knew would have the potential to destroy other community clubs and livelihoods.

 

 

Bonnyrigg Rose would not have fought this the way Hearts (and PT) are because they simply wouldn't have had the money to fund the case and the consequences of what is happening to Hearts and PT would not have been severe enough to make it worth their while.

 

If Bonnyrigg Rose or any other club (Stranraer for example) had the resources and financial commitments Hearts have, including 100 or so employees to protect, plus over 8000 fans contributing money every month plus 11k+ season ticket holders every season to represent and fight for, plus all the expenses that go along with being one of the largest clubs in the country of course they would have fought their position.

[AndrewB]

A quick look at Dean Brett's wikipedia page is interesting.

 

 

In February 2017 he was suspended by the club after he admitted breaching professional conduct rules on gambling,^[2] before being sacked four days later.^[3] He had earlier received a four-match ban from the Scottish Football Association for homophobic tweets.^[4][5]

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

This seems to start and stop with the Dundee vote. If that is considered to be fair (I don’t see how it can be but this is Scottish football) then the SPFL will win. If it isn’t then they surely lose.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Fair enough.

 

‘This arbitration won’t really have any time for morality or perceived fairness’

 

Is this actually true? Seems a shame for a process called arbitration, dealing with a case of unfair prejudice.

 

 

 

 

"won't really" is a bit of a wishy-washy statement to be honest. Either it will or it won't.

[AndrewB]

Would Brett have played in the 10-0 game?

[Hackney Hearts]

5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I assume what he means is that they’ll look plain and simple at whether the SPFL were entitled to do what they did according to the rules.

 

True. But the rules stipulate acting "in good faith" to ALL clubs - which raises the issue of unfair prejudice (perceived or actual, TBC).

Edited July 7, 2020 by Hackney Hearts

[Batistuta87]

24 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

He sits on the bog as it saves him pishing his pants every time he gets irate at the chaos and damage Hearts and Partick Thistle are causing to Scottish football.

 

Might as well, with all the shite he talks. 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

@firsttimecaller. Lord Clark stated there's a case to answer. If arbitration fails then he's happy to deal with it. If a Law Lord sees something, then there's doubt and he's more qualified than all of us on here. You're just coming across as having a go with an agenda and only interpreting what you want, IMO. 

[adambraejambo]

1 minute ago, AndrewB said:

Would Brett have played in the 10-0 game?

Yes he sure did. 

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

Would Brett have played in the 10-0 game?

Yes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/31563172

[Cruyff]

7 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Fair enough.

 

‘This arbitration won’t really have any time for morality or perceived fairness’

 

Is this actually true? Seems a shame for a process called arbitration, dealing with a case of unfair prejudice.

 

Perceived fairness works all ways. The SPFL might not perceive it to be fair if we're awarded unliquidated damages. DU might not perceive it fair if we are reinstated. Hearts might not perceive it fair if we are demoted and are not entitled to damages.. 

 

It's just legal jargon for the decision will be made in accordance with the articles and the point of law. 

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

This seems to start and stop with the Dundee vote. If that is considered to be fair (I don’t see how it can be but this is Scottish football) then the SPFL will win. If it isn’t then they surely lose.

 

Yip, basically, despite the complete shit show and several other fair options it seems its down to a technicality and nothing else. 

Completely detracts from the main issues but it's becoming more clear this vote being legal or illegal will be the difference. 

 

 

[Ethan Hunt]

13 minutes ago, JI TEES said:

This causes me great concern as our case is pretty much based on these aspects. This Brandon Malone is the main man in terms of SFA arbitration so very concerning hearing that. Also listening to him gives me the impression that we will very much be up against it. Just my view of course.

That is an utterly bizarre statement, and if recollection serves me right it was made by Chris McLaughlin. 

 

Our case is in relation to unfair prejudice as per section 994, Companies Act 2006. 

Unfortunately for a lot of people the essential elements of that Act are 1) the conduct of the company’s (SPFL in our case) affairs; (2) has prejudiced; (3) unfairly; (4) the petitioner’s interests as a member of the company. In other words the conduct must be both prejudicial and unfairly so; conduct may be prejudicial without being unfair or unfair without being prejudicial. Both elements need to be satisfied and, if either is not, the petition will not be well founded.

 

The arbitration tribunal will be heard on points of law. The law of the land is essentially the very definition of fairness and morality. The statement is complete and utter nonsense made by someone who clearly doesn’t understand the principles of law, or the definition of the words he used.

 

 

 

 

[Ethan Hunt]

15 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Is that the wee ***** that plays for Cowdenbeath? 

Now plays for Bonnyrigg Rose. Looks like we’ve unmasked @firsttimecaller or rather Dean has done that himself.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Ethan Hunt

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

7 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

@firsttimecaller. Lord Clark stated there's a case to answer. If arbitration fails then he's happy to deal with it. If a Law Lord sees something, then there's doubt and he's more qualified than all of us on here. You're just coming across as having a go with an agenda and only interpreting what you want, IMO. 

Arbitration is generally binding though so we would have to go back to court on a specific procedural issue I assume. 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

1 minute ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

True. But the rules stipulate acting "in good faith" to ALL clubs - which raises the issuer of unfair prejudice (perceived or actual, TBC).

'Good faith' must be meaningless if it isn't held to have been broken by all who voted to 'relegate' the three clubs solely on the grounds of self-interest, but for Dundee to have allowed themselves to be persuaded to change their vote, and, worse still, for the governing body, which is meant to act in the interests of all, to have carried out that persuading surely blows the whole point of having such a 'good faith' rule asunder if the tribunal doesn't rule that that rule was broken! 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 minutes ago, adambraejambo said:

Yes he sure did. 

 

 

It's the wee hilarious side stories in this whole thing that make me feel we'll come out of this fine either way:

 

Cowdenbeath player from the 10-0 game has a Twitter meltdown at us 6 years later

Dundee Utd and Raith oppose reconstruction, but might end up needing it

Hearts nick D Utd's manager and they then appoint someone who is on record as strongly opposing what they and the other cubs are trying to do to us

Hibs vote themselves down a place and lose over 100k for no reason

The SPFL cancel the league to give clubs money then is landed with a resulting bill that is more than the money they get

Hearts sign Celtic's second best goalie just as their first choice leaves and now they only have Scott Bain

 

There aren't enough face palm emojis for some of these.

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Shanks]

9 minutes ago, adambraejambo said:

Yes he sure did. 

 

bitter ****ing loser

 

[Captain Canada]

Are we likely to get any updates this week about whether the process of setting up the arbitration hearing has started or not? 

 

Wouldn't surprise me if ND goes on his holidays soon. 

[ginger jambo98]

16 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Is that the wee ***** that plays for Cowdenbeath? 

The hobo supporting ex Cowdenbeath player now plays for Bonnyrigg Rose.  Hmmm, there was a reek of verminised Bonnyrigg earlier in the thread.

[ericb]

31 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

That Chair also told him that if Hearts & Thistle win compensation that it would have very severe consequences for his club. 

 

The podcast frustrates me, Tom English, who has been excellent throughout this whole affair seems ground down. Repeatedly he could have made the point `To McIntyre and all that all the clubs needed to do was right a wrong, and none of this expense would be around.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Now plays for Bonnyrigg Rose. Looks like we’ve unmasked @firsttimecaller or rather Deon has done that himself.

You have zee leetel grey cells werkeeng well today, I see, Monsieur Poirot

[JI TEES]

7 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

That is an utterly bizarre statement, and if recollection serves me right it was made by Chris McLaughlin. 

 

Our case is in relation to unfair prejudice as per section 994, Companies Act 2006. 

Unfortunately for a lot of people the essential elements of that Act are 1) the conduct of the company’s (SPFL in our case) affairs; (2) has prejudiced; (3) unfairly; (4) the petitioner’s interests as a member of the company. In other words the conduct must be both prejudicial and unfairly so; conduct may be prejudicial without being unfair or unfair without being prejudicial. Both elements need to be satisfied and, if either is not, the petition will not be well founded.

 

The arbitration tribunal will be heard on points of law. The law of the land is essentially the very definition of fairness and morality. The statement is complete and utter nonsense made by someone who clearly doesn’t understand the principles of law, or the definition of the words he used.

 

 

 

 

It was Brandon Malone that made the statement. Just with his standing it

must carry some credence and I got the impression from listening to him that our side of the argument will not be strong enough. Really hope our Legal team are on point and can somehow achieve relative success.

[Hagar the Horrible]

There is NO dancing on the streets of Raith:

 

So here is my take on the RR situation?  After a weekend of mixed emotion, the adrenaline has worn off and the pain of the injuries has kicked it.  They wanted, well were forced to seriously consider quitting. They are akin to a boxer whose legs have gone, the head wants to fight but the legs have given up.  Bravado kicked in and their corner has DU telling them to hang in there for one more round, while Doncaster is telling them that they are winning on points.  They need to go down and take the count, their own corner is not going to do the moral thing and throw in the towel,  If they continue they won’t have kind of quality of life. 

 

I won’t go into too much detail of last night’s statement to the Courier but these extracts make the point:

 

Rovers chairman Clark admits losing the case – and being told to pay Hearts and Partick’s legal fees – would spell disaster for the League One champions.  This over and above their share of the £50k they have already paid for losing the same case in the CoS!  And this as well “ I don’t think any club can afford to take that chance”

 

“We’re weighing up the risks involved in doing that and letting the SPFL defend their case and see whatever happens.  Yeah they are pinning their hopes on Neil Doncaster has been impeccable that’s NEIL DONCASTER!

 

“We’ll have to take the consequences, which could well be remaining in League One, which we would not be happy with at all.  Well as we Vikings say #Takeyourmedicine!

Clark admits Rovers are not keen to go cap in hand to their fans, “So it’s a joint crowdfunding exercise between the three clubs, we’ll see what happens with that.” 

 

Dancing on the streets of Raith, naw they are fighting jakeys in the gutter for a discarded chippie?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Ha ha, 10 goals past him

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

It's the wee hilarious side stories in this whole thing that make me feel we'll come out of this fine either way:

 

Cowdenbeath player from the 10-0 game has a Twitter meltdown at us 6 years later

Dundee Utd and Raith oppose reconstruction, but might end up needing it

Hearts nick D Utd's manager and they then appoint someone who is on record as strongly opposing what they and the other cubs are trying to do to us

Hibs vote themselves down a place and lose over 100k for no reason

The SPFL cancel the league to give clubs money then is landed with a resulting bill that is more than the money they get

Hearts sign Celtic's second best goalie just as their first choice leaves and now they only have Scott Bain

 

There aren't enough face palm emojis for some of these.

 

 

And still more come. 

 

It's a complete shambles. 

Beyond belief actually. 

[jackal]

Poor Dean embarrassed to admit he supports Hibs. The shame haha. Welt.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

24 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

"Perceived fairness"

 

Is that not the exact phrase used by Doncaster?

 

More dirty tricks from the axis of evil.

 

I don't think our case is based on what we or the SPFL think is fair or unfair.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Just now, JI TEES said:

It was Brandon Malone that made the statement. Just with his standing it

must carry some credence and I got the impression from listening to him that our side of the argument will not be strong enough. Really hope our Legal team are on point and can somehow achieve relative success.

They had all sort on telling us we would lose last week in the CoS, and Comical Chris is good at bringing out friendly advisors?  Its down to the 3 Arbies, and as no so called expert has been armed with the raw data on the Dundee vote and expert witness testimony on all other misgivings, and not forgetting its a fight now the SPFL cant afford to lose, and the member clubs need a 100% victory. wheras we can afford to go down fighting.

[indianajones]

Loving the comments regarding how big and bad Hearts are. Totally false but its excellent either way. 

 

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Now plays for Bonnyrigg Rose. Looks like we’ve unmasked @firsttimecaller or rather Dean has done that himself.

No danger. firsttimecaller must have (at least) , a Standard Grade in English. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, JI TEES said:

It was Brandon Malone that made the statement. Just with his standing it

must carry some credence and I got the impression from listening to him that our side of the argument will not be strong enough. Really hope our Legal team are on point and can somehow achieve relative success.

 

Has he seen the documents that will be released? If not, he knows as much as we do.

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, jackal said:

Poor Dean embarrassed to admit he supports Hibs. The shame haha. Welt.

You lucky B******s it should have been TEN?     oh wait it was!

[Shanks]

Another day, another dose of tears and snotters

[John Findlay]

@Hagar the Horrible, excellent posts.

A friendly warning. Have a wee sly dig at the Navy again, and I will blow you out the water😉😉

[Jim Panzee]

42 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

While I'm pleased to see all the optimism and positivity about the outcome of the arbitration hearing, I still remain very cautious. The panel will reach their decision on the lawfulness or otherwise of what has happened.

 

I fear that there will be a number of irregularities or poor practices identified, but that the panel will find that the letter of the law has not been broken (nor SPF's AoA or Rules), therefore the status quo will be maintained, with the costs to be borne by Hearts & PT.

 

So I remain in the "fear the worst" camp, but "hoping for the best"

this worries me if FF with his experience has this view. I'm inclined to agree. Probably championship next season and nowhere near the compo we want.

 

even so, we'll be back in the top flight with a vengeance and stronger than ever.

[Debut 4]

26 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

Would Brett have played in the 10-0 game?

Thinking back now there was a nippy sweetie in their line up that day acting quite wound up.

 

Must’ve been him

[Anything2]

14 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

it should have been TEN, it should have been TEN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ohh wait it was TEN

Should have been more, Robbie was practically on the pitch telling them sto stop shooting with 15-20 minutes to go. 

[MCW1976]

17 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

It's the wee hilarious side stories in this whole thing that make me feel we'll come out of this fine either way:

 

Cowdenbeath player from the 10-0 game has a Twitter meltdown at us 6 years later

Dundee Utd and Raith oppose reconstruction, but might end up needing it

Hearts nick D Utd's manager and they then appoint someone who is on record as strongly opposing what they and the other cubs are trying to do to us

Hibs vote themselves down a place and lose over 100k for no reason

The SPFL cancel the league to give clubs money then is landed with a resulting bill that is more than the money they get

Hearts sign Celtic's second best goalie just as their first choice leaves and now they only have Scott Bain

 

There aren't enough face palm emojis for some of these.

 

👍👍👍👍

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Anything2 said:

Should have been more, Robbie was practically on the pitch telling them sto stop shooting with 15-20 minutes to go. 

 

I had a bet on us to win by 7.

 

By bt I knew my net was burst 😂

[neilnunb]

Dear Dean...

 

 

[Anything2]

1 minute ago, Debut 4 said:

Thinking back now there was a nippy sweetie in their line up that day acting quite wound up.

 

Must’ve been him

Think about it though, a big game that all his Hibs family and friends can come to and cheer him on as he gets it right up the jambos on their own patch and then.... well least said the better for him. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

this worries me if FF with his experience has this view. I'm inclined to agree. Probably championship next season and nowhere near the compo we want.

 

even so, we'll be back in the top flight with a vengeance and stronger than ever.

Exactly what experience does FF have? Is he qualified lawyer or QC, has he 10 years legal experience? Only last week, a Law Lord of Scotland saw sufficient evidence to decide the case was worthy of further debate and whilst not in CoS itself, in a private court of arbitration.

 

Think I will stick with Law Lord over poster, who albeit with good intentions, posts on here.

[neilnunb]

34 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

A quick look at Dean Brett's wikipedia page is interesting.

 

 

In February 2017 he was suspended by the club after he admitted breaching professional conduct rules on gambling,^[2] before being sacked four days later.^[3] He had earlier received a four-match ban from the Scottish Football Association for homophobic tweets.^[4][5]

 

 

 

Quite ironic when he styles his look on Barry Mannilow.

 

 

[Heartsmad1874]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Exactly what experience does FF have? Is he qualified lawyer or QC, has he 10 years legal experience? Only last week, a Law Lord of Scotland saw sufficient evidence to decide the case was worthy of further debate and whilst not in CoS itself, in a private court of arbitration.

 

Think I will stick with Law Lord over poster, who albeit with good intentions, posts on here.

Too many posters on here believing other posters thoughts/opinions when said person really has no idea what those documents will uncover and what could happen with the case from there.