SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Gmcjambo]

Just now, Riccarton3 said:

Just thinking of Moynihan: he summed up the SPFL and SF A ethos in one crass line. 

That was not lost on the Judge thankfully,   think it has worked against them.......it's certainly been noted 👍

[Beast Boy]

8 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The Daily Record is reporting that the SPFL and the Scottish Government are on a collision course about fans attending matches. 

 

Perhaps the SPFL will take the SG to arbitration. It's a footballing matter after all. 

I find it incredible the way some people actually think football can operate outside of the law, or even turn around and tell the law of the land to stay out of their business. This idea that some absolute ****ing nobody like Lawwell, or that Cormack character are in a position to dictate on anything as important as this is just breathtaking arrogance. It actually highlights the contempt that the Daily Record have for the devolved and elected parliament and government of our country, that they think these tinpot dictators are in a position to build up enough momentum to even contribute to a “collision course”. They will abide by the law of the land like everyone else, or they will face far more serious legal proceedings than this wee CoS dispute.

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Special Officer Doofy

[doctor jambo]

8 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Just thinking of Moynihan: he summed up the SPFL and SF A ethos in one crass line. 

Weegie wannabe comedian line hopefully sinking their case

[Baxfee]

So for us idiots, what is the best/worst outcome from today?

[williamgerrard]

See when we win our case watch the amount of decisions on field go against us 

[CJGJ]

7 hours ago, geomac said:

 

tone of your language puts me off before listening to the p!sh you are actually spouting - back to selling cars Jackson, try and look competent!

Oh Boo Hoo that was just outstanding 🤣 and has made me rethink my approach to second class posters

 

In future I'll try to be more understanding given their inability to converse..oh PS you do know that you are not listening to posts but reading them..just thought I'd mention that to help you on your journey of education

[Diadora Van Basten]

24 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I find it incredible the way some people actually think football can operate outside of the law, or even turn around and tell the law of the land to stay out of their business. This idea that some absolute ****ing nobody like Lawwell, or that Cormack character are in a position to dictate on anything as important as this is just breathtaking arrogance. It actually highlights the contempt that the Daily Record have for the devolved and elected parliament and government of our country, that they think these tinpot dictators are in a position to build up enough momentum to even contribute to a “collision course”. They will abide by the law of the land like everyone else, or they will face far more serious legal proceedings than this wee CoS dispute.

 

 

 

I think the judge will be weighing up the danger of football operating above the law with the potential of setting a precedent meaning far more cases coming to court relating to football.

 

I am quietly confident we will win. In general we are not a corrupt country and that is down to our legal system not being weak or compliant when they see corruption taking place.

 

The behaviour of the SPFL has been abhorrent and they are still issuing threats in court. I suspect the judge will see this as an opportunity to remind them that the law is their to be complied with.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Diadora Van Basten

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

See when we win our case watch the amount of decisions on field go against us 

I'm not sure it will be noticeable from before.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

6 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Oh Boo Hoo that was just outstanding 🤣 and has made me rethink my approach to second class posters

 

In future I'll try to be more understanding given their inability to converse..oh PS you do know that you are not listening to posts but reading them..just thought I'd mention that to help you on your journey of education

What a condescending post.

[kingantti1874]

31 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Just thinking of Moynihan: he summed up the SPFL and SF A ethos in one crass line. 

what did he say, the “oor the game pish”? Or something else

[hughesie27]

10 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

So for us idiots, what is the best/worst outcome from today?

Worst- The Judge decides to let the SFA deal with it via Arbitration.

Best - The ajudgebdecides the case should be heard in court.

Likely - The Judge will take the weekend to decide.

[Diadora Van Basten]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

what did he say, the “oor the game pish”? Or something else

Oot the gemme

[kingantti1874]

12 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

So for us idiots, what is the best/worst outcome from today?

not being referred to SFA arbitration- if it is we should just abandon to make a point with a statement about no in mention of participating in a kangaroo court

[Beast Boy]

12 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Just thinking of Moynihan: he summed up the SPFL and SF A ethos in one crass line. 

I do hope Lord Clark agrees., It’s the one line from the whole proceedings that genuinely wound me up a bit. It was just far too illuminating and indicative of the attitude of those he is representing. 
 

Weegie football arrogance where they believe it’s all about Glasgow, and everyone else must simply fall in line, as they do what they want. Do as you are told, no matter the fairness of the situation, or we will kick you out our wee gang-hut.

 

Regardless of the result, I am so proud of Budge and HMFC for taking this to court. This is the first time a club (two clubs) have actually stood up and told these arseholes that enough is enough. The “gemme” up here is run for the benefit of two clubs and two clubs alone. The entire system and structure is designed to keep it that way: 

 

OF representation on all the boards.

 

Officials who referee games involving the Old Firm differently.

 

Hampden is “the heart of Scottish Football” - with a Rangers end and a Celtic end.

 

The 11-1 voting system.

 

The small top division playing everyone at least three times, making a challenge from outside Glasgow much harder.

 

The power these two clubs have over their competitors through their supporter numbers and smaller clubs banking on them as part of their turnover (something that clubs have admitted played a part in them voting against restructuring).

 

The way the media backs them up and attacks anyone who dissents.

 

The entire system is designed to enshrine the interests and favour of two clubs. Everyone else must fall in line and do as they are told by the puppet authorities that are controlled by these two clubs. For Hearts to stand up and simply say “no”, “we do not accept what is being done to us” has made me infinitely proud. Whatever happens from this point on, these utter scumbags now know that at least one club will not just sit there and “accept their medicine” as they rip the heart and soul out of the game we love.

 

I’m actually quite optimistic that whatever the result, in years to come people will look back on what happened here, and actually see the truth behind why we are doing this, as well as seeing the tawdry ridiculousness of the set up we are battling against.

 

 

[Beast Boy]

9 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I think the judge will be weighing up the danger of football operating above the law with the potential of setting a precedent meaning far more cases coming to court relating to football.

 

I am quietly confident we will win. In general we are not a corrupt country and that is down to our legal system not being weak or compliant when they see corruption taking place.

 

The behaviour of the SPFL has been abhorrent and they are still issuing threats in court. I suspect the judge will see this as an opportunity to remind them that the law is their to be complied with.

Yep. You would certainly hope so.

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

14 hours ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

So basically the SPFL is lying.

 

They've been lying since day one of all this, and they've never stopped. 

[Beast Boy]

14 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Oh Boo Hoo that was just outstanding 🤣 and has made me rethink my approach to second class posters

 

In future I'll try to be more understanding given their inability to converse..oh PS you do know that you are not listening to posts but reading them..just thought I'd mention that to help you on your journey of education

“Second class posters”... ffs. Scary thing is you probably believe that. 
 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

If it’s going to take 3-4 days in court just to establish if  this case should actually be heard in court, how long could the actual redo court case take?!

[Benny Factor]

"So Mr Borland, can you tell me was there any point when your respondents had the opportunity to stop it getting as far as here. There was an indicative vote on reconstruction, wasn't there? Can you advise how each of the respondents indicated that they would vote?"

[Fozzyonthefence]

20 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

So for us idiots, what is the best/worst outcome from today?

Worst case, judge sends us to SFA arbitration, best case he decides COS has jurisdiction to hear the case.  As far as I am aware that is the only 2 outcomes at this stage?

[Col]

As a Tranmere fan (affected by a similar epic swindle in the English third tier) Hearts and Partick Thistle fans have my best wishes. Total respect to both clubs for their fighting spirit. You cannot allow corporate bullies to walk all over your club.

[cb1874]

12 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

So for us idiots, what is the best/worst outcome from today?

Best...C.O.S to hear the case at full hearing

Middle ground...sends to SFA for arbitration(still crap for us though)

Worst...Judge dismisses our petition as per DU, RR CR response.

 

Thereafter.

Even if it goes to a full hearing, many seem to think we still won't get our day in court because the SPFL will back down and try to force recon 14, 10, 10, 10 to avoid court. Budge would surely accept in a heartbeat.

A full hearing is a massive gamble for all concerned, but the best way to expose the SPFL publicly.

 

If we lost at full hearing, we're goosed and it's off to the Championship with a big court bill to pay.

 

If we win at full hearing, then it's anyone's guess what the Judge would order...anything from re-instatement to compensation. I still think a forced through recon would be the result there, because the SPFL couldn't afford the compo and they won't want to refuse promotion to DU, RR & CR(another court case).

 

I suspect arbitration would result in either a renewed resolution vote,(which we would lose comprehensively), or recon.

 

That's my unqualified take on it all.

 

[Deevers]

20 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

See when we win our case watch the amount of decisions on field go against us 

can it get any worse?

[cb1874]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Worst case, judge sends us to SFA arbitration, best case he decides COS has jurisdiction to hear the case.  As far as I am aware that is the only 2 outcomes at this stage?

He could also dismiss the petition.

[Hashimoto]

5 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

“Second class posters”... ffs. Scary thing is you probably believe that. 
 

 

 

Best putting CJGJ on mute.....He's an opinionated tool who believes in his own deluded legend.....He's better sticking to flogging off 2nd hand bangers.

[Libertarian]

53 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Edited now,

 

 

Many thanks. I have listened to the first couple of days and to be honest it's been pretty turgid stuff, but my daughter is going off to study law at university and she has found it to be incredibly interesting. 

[7628mm]

17 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Worst- The Judge decides to let the SFA deal with it via Arbitration.

Best - The ajudgebdecides the case should be heard in court.

Likely - The Judge will take the weekend to decide.

 

I feel sorry for the Judge as he may have no choice but to give his decision after the weekend.

 

I suspect that the QCs representing DU/RR/Cove and the SPFL will pass the can (ball) to each other and kick it down the road for about 95% of todays time in court. This will give Hearts/PT QC about 5%  to reply before end of the match.

[OldGorgie]

15 minutes ago, cb1874 said:

If we lost at full hearing, we're goosed and it's off to the Championship with a big court bill to pay.

If we lose costs are Unlikely to be over £100k and depending On judge closer to £30k. That’s my experience of last case I was involved in.

[BigCGilmour]

43 minutes ago, williamgerrard said:

See when we win our case watch the amount of decisions on field go against us 

Can't hardly be more than what we see every week!

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

If Lord Clarke not in position to make ruling today hopefully he blocks league releasing fixtures on monday or until he makes his ruling 

[Libertarian]

If the judgement is postponed until next week this would place the SPFL under immense pressure as they have promised to bring out the fixtures for the new season on Monday. If the ruling goes against them it could the start of the season in real jeopardy. It would therefore surely be best for everyone to force through reconstruction. It could save the SPFL from having to renege on their deal with Sky tv and the huge financial loss that could entail, it would also remove the danger of embarrassing revelations coming out in court as well as the possibility of costs being awarded against them. 

[scotty2442]

Unless the QC’s wrap it up before lunch today (highly unlikely based on how slow Borland is.....sounds like he need new batteries), then I’d say it’s unlikely any judgement will be made today. 

[wavydavy]

37 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I think the judge will be weighing up the danger of football operating above the law with the potential of setting a precedent meaning far more cases coming to court relating to football.

 

I am quietly confident we will win. In general we are not a corrupt country and that is down to our legal system not being weak or compliant when they see corruption taking place.

 

The behaviour of the SPFL has been abhorrent and they are still issuing threats in court. I suspect the judge will see this as an opportunity to remind them that the law is their to be complied with.

 

That is a good post and very valid. I noted Lord Clark also seemed to note that we could be expelled from the SPFL. Interesting that he asked Thomson about that point. We obviously don't know why he asked exactly but the fact he did might indicate he was at least mindful of this possible outcome.

Sly don't know exactly why he asked

[Maroon 1874]

13 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Aberdeen are losing a million a month. Celtic are very quickly eating through their cash reserves and have admitted that they are far from immune from the negative financial impacts of COVID. Neither are losing out at this time as a result of Hearts/PT legal challenge. What is in it for them? All Scottish clubs are toiling for cash. The DR article that made the claim did so stating that the unnamed clubs were “enraged” at Hearts/PT actions or some such tripe. How many times has the claim been repeated since that article? How many different sources has it come from? Made up pish imo.

 

Very good points fella, the answer is none, couple that with the fact that its the DR 🤪   …. I should have known  👍 👍

[flecktimus]

I hope our QC as got his court link sorted. Struggle to make out what he is saying at times.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

 

Best putting CJGJ on mute.....He's an opinionated tool who believes in his own deluded legend.....He's better sticking to flogging off 2nd hand bangers.

We need more opinionated tools who believe in their own deluded legend IMO, etc

[Toxteth O'Grady]

1 hour ago, Swanny17 said:

See if we do win reinstatement, I assume our first few fixtures will be postponed? There’s no danger we will be ready to play matches at the start of August. Or will the SPFL just force us to do so? 

We should make use of the rule that allows us to postpone a game so we can have a glamour friendly with Partick Thistle

[Anything2]

1 hour ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Sent off an email to ask for the code and got an automatic reply with a link. No listed code for today yet, does say if not listed then it might not be available to listen in to??

How many people know a guy called Craig Murray and are now wondering what he's been up to? 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

We should make use of the rule that allows us to postpone a game so we can have a glamour friendly with Partick Thistle

 

Don't forget Stranraer and maybe Inverness.

[underwaterwoodwelder]

1 hour ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Sent off an email to ask for the code and got an automatic reply with a link. No listed code for today yet, does say if not listed then it might not be available to listen in to??

Thank you for the information mate.

[David McCaig]

10 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

That is a good post and very valid. I noted Lord Clark also seemed to note that we could be expelled from the SPFL. Interesting that he asked Thomson about that point. We obviously don't know why he asked exactly but the fact he did might indicate he was at least mindful of this possible outcome.

Sly don't know exactly why he asked

 

 

You would also hope that Lord Clark is asking himself the question, why are the SPFL so desperate to take this case away from the COS?

[Horatio Caine]

22 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

I feel sorry for the Judge as he may have no choice but to give his decision after the weekend.

 

I suspect that the QCs representing DU/RR/Cove and the SPFL will pass the can (ball) to each other and kick it down the road for about 95% of todays time in court. This will give Hearts/PT QC about 5%  to reply before end of the match.

Can the judge not tell Bore-land to STFU as he's already sent everyone to sleep with his tedious repetitive  ramblings?

[stuart500]

5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

That is a good post and very valid. I noted Lord Clark also seemed to note that we could be expelled from the SPFL. Interesting that he asked Thomson about that point. We obviously don't know why he asked exactly but the fact he did might indicate he was at least mindful of this possible outcome.

Sly don't know exactly why he asked

I think he was stating he wouldn't let us go to the CoS if we are not allowed to do so under Article 99 (2010 Act) as he could be leaving us subject to the "oot the gemme" penalty.

 

So he needs to be convinced it is not a football matter but one which can under SFA rules be passed to CoS without sanctions.

 

We need that anyway.

 

Judge may not be impressed by SPFL attitude though which may help.

[doctor jambo]

40 minutes ago, cb1874 said:

Best...C.O.S to hear the case at full hearing

Middle ground...sends to SFA for arbitration(still crap for us though)

Worst...Judge dismisses our petition as per DU, RR CR response.

 

Thereafter.

Even if it goes to a full hearing, many seem to think we still won't get our day in court because the SPFL will back down and try to force recon 14, 10, 10, 10 to avoid court. Budge would surely accept in a heartbeat.

A full hearing is a massive gamble for all concerned, but the best way to expose the SPFL publicly.

 

If we lost at full hearing, we're goosed and it's off to the Championship with a big court bill to pay.

 

If we win at full hearing, then it's anyone's guess what the Judge would order...anything from re-instatement to compensation. I still think a forced through recon would be the result there, because the SPFL couldn't afford the compo and they won't want to refuse promotion to DU, RR & CR(another court case).

 

I suspect arbitration would result in either a renewed resolution vote,(which we would lose comprehensively), or recon.

 

That's my unqualified take on it all.

 

I think the Judge is mindful of the timescales involved too, and that if we are shuffled off to arbitration and the outcome of that is not to our satisfaction, then we will be back at the Cof S again, but too late to do anything this season.

We go in front of the SFA and this season is done for us to compete in the top flight, on time alone, let alone the fact we would lose

[Craig_]

9 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

How many people know a guy called Craig Murray and are now wondering what he's been up to? 

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

for me the game play for today and outcomes:

Worst:  Boreland talks until Covid 19 is given a world wide all clear  Season 20/21 has concluded

Best:   Judge says aye alright pal thats plenty.. I have read article 99 to death, time to let other speak!

Likely:  Boreland to talk until lunch,  SPFL guy  for an hour, we get 30mins on the time clock, and it will go to a replay on Monday

[David McCaig]

11 minutes ago, Anything2 said:

How many people know a guy called Craig Murray and are now wondering what he's been up to? 

 

Is it not a contempt of court case arising from the Alex Salmond Trial?

[doctor jambo]

8 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

I think he was stating he wouldn't let us go to the CoS if we are not allowed to do so under Article 99 (2010 Act) as he could be leaving us subject to the "oot the gemme" penalty.

 

So he needs to be convinced it is not a football matter but one which can under SFA rules be passed to CoS without sanctions.

 

We need that anyway.

 

Judge may not be impressed by SPFL attitude though which may help.

We are already at the CofS - we have already breached the rules, and have already had our letter from the SFA in this regard.

[David McCaig]

Just now, Hagar the Horrible said:

for me the game play for today and outcomes:

Worst:  Boreland talks until Covid 19 is given a world wide all clear  Season 20/21 has concluded

Best:   Judge says aye alright pal thats plenty.. I have read article 99 to death, time to let other speak!

Likely:  Boreland to talk until lunch,  SPFL guy  for an hour, we get 30mins on the time clock, and it will go to a replay on Monday

 

In my dream scenario, Lord Clark stops Mr Borland in his tracks with a muttered “oh FFS”  and clarifies that this isn’t a footballing dispute and there is a significant public interest... hopefully paraphrasing Mr Borland by adding “therefore to court we must go”!!

[Steve]

Ultimately we have to have faith that a quality judge like Lord Clarke will see through this lot.

 

There is no way we will get a fair hearing at arbitration - deep down he has to know this.