SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, iainmac said:

Borland finishing then Moynihan then Thomson with a new motion. 

 

10pm start. 

Maybe a 10pm finish with that boring fecker boreland speaking!!

[Jambo-Fox]

3 minutes ago, iainmac said:

Borland finishing then Moynihan then Thomson with a new motion. 

 

10pm start. 

Am

[williamgerrard]

Do u think we will try to halt the league starting in august ?

[troonmaroon]

5 minutes ago, iainmac said:

Borland finishing then Moynihan then Thomson with a new motion. 

 

10pm start. 

Cool, thanks! Tho... Does New motion then lead to responses from those two, the DT again?! 

[iainmac]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Am

Sorry 10pm finish! 😄

[iainmac]

Just now, troonmaroon said:

Cool, thanks! Tho... Does New motion then lead to responses from those two, the DT again?! 

 

I think it only applies to the SPFL so possibly just Moynihan.

[RobNox]

2 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

You do know that a boxing match can be won without a knock out punch being landed? Repeated body punches has won many a fight.

 

I think the great boxing trainer Teddy Atlas refers to this as draining the well, or words to that effect.  It was certainly a tactic used to great effect by the legendary Roberto Duran, especially so when he moved up in weight.  He could fight naturally bigger opponents, and just gradually sap their strength by fighting inside and landing big body punches.  

[22games nro]

52 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

I was out for a run earlier & it came into my mind that what would be good is to go through to a couple of Partick games; have a day out & watch a bit of football, instead of giving these other shitehawks our money, certainly think a few of my mates would be up for that & would be great if even a few hundred Hearts fans did the same. Would be good if we were playing Dundee away on the same day Thistle were at home, nice photo of us at Firhill to those kants Twitter page with the message "Heres where your much needed away ticket money''s gone ya fecking losers!" would be nice.

great idea , when I see the date for us to go to dens park , I’ll be looking at the P/T game with a view to heading through , might make a day of it and  go for hospitality.

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

 

LPP is normally only claimed over documents, emails etc., exchanged between a party and their legal advisors in relation to matters being raised in a court action.

 

https://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/legal-briefing/legal-professional-privilege-in-scotland-and-elsewhere/

👍👍

[Riccarton3]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

They have put barriers up to any avenue of investigation of when, and where, the Dundee vote was received. Dundee had assured the WhatsApp group, including Inverness CT, that the vote was sent in time and revealed a photo of their voting paper.

Whatever happened after it was received, is what the SPFL board don't want in the public domain. The arrogance of power, that they have enjoyed for years, seems to have given them confidence that they could manipulate the legitimate outcome of the vote from a division which was seen as the crucial battleground for the SPFL board to push through Celtic being declared champions before any risk of null and void being declared across Europe.

It is shameful that the Scottish media have never seriously questioned what happened. You could be sure that if a similar situation had arisen over a decision by UEFA over something adversely affecting Celtic, they would be all over it.

Complicit in silence. From the broadsheets to the rags. From owners to editors to the sports sections. Culture of mediocrity and fear.

 

 

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Oneneilberry said:

From their own press release re.the Deloitte audit for the Dundee vote they said it was received at 14.48 it sat in a spam folder operated by a third party and was noticed unread at 8.30 then released to the inbox at 8.55 

This needs to be verified independently imo as you can’t trust this shower of ***** with the truth about anything 

 

Really. Pull the other one should be the response of any journalist or judge.

[Hectormasson]

54 minutes ago, RobNox said:

I said after yesterday's hearing that those are the two I would love to see called for questioning if the case proceeds to court.

 

Doncaster is no way going to want to subject himself to interrogation by a QC, under oath, in the presence of a law lord.  He might be able to bullshit Richard Gordon on Sportsound, with the microphones of Tom English and Mikey Stewart turned off so they can't challenge his response, but he will not be able to bullshit a QC and dare not lie.

 

As for Nelms, he needs to be questioned about the reasons for withdrawing the Dundee 'no' vote, changing it to a 'yes' vote, and what communication took place between Dundee and the SPFL before revising their vote to 'yes'.  

Totally needs to be found out ! 

[RobNox]

2 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

I’ve posted this a few times on this thread.

 

 

 

That's exactly what did for Nixon in the Watergate scandal.  All The President's Men is a great movie, even more so because it is based on real events.  If only we had journalists of even half that quality working in the MSSM today.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, RobNox said:

I said after yesterday's hearing that those are the two I would love to see called for questioning if the case proceeds to court.

 

Doncaster is no way going to want to subject himself to interrogation by a QC, under oath, in the presence of a law lord.  He might be able to bullshit Richard Gordon on Sportsound, with the microphones of Tom English and Mikey Stewart turned off so they can't challenge his response, but he will not be able to bullshit a QC and dare not lie.

 

As for Nelms, he needs to be questioned about the reasons for withdrawing the Dundee 'no' vote, changing it to a 'yes' vote, and what communication took place between Dundee and the SPFL before revising their vote to 'yes'.  

That letter he sent to UEFA to start off the whole "end the season" debacle where he claimed most of the clubs wanted to end the season - let's see the science behind that claim. 

[MMHearts]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

If it goes to court, the Dundee vote shambles and the mess created if the Resolution is found not to have passed makes an out of court settlement probably a certainty.

If the resolution hasn’t passed then us, Partick and Stranraer have not been demoted (they can call it relegated all they want, I won’t) so any settlement will not be for us, it will be for the 3 now non-promoted clubs which is why they are involved in this hearing and potential court case.  
The question the SPFL will be terrified to be faced with is how do they resolve that situation? Forced reconstruction? Another reconstruction vote? Would these 3 clubs appeal the decision? Would the SPFL back them in this appeal? If they do appeal then when can the league start? Would the 3 now non promoted clubs accept financial recompense to permit the leagues to start? An absolute nightmare scenario which is a possibility and I would imagine gives our QC a strong bargaining position if this proceeds to be heard by the COS rather than an SFA appointed arbitration council. I have no doubt these questions could and would influence any decision by the SFA council however the COS will be focused on the purely legal considerations of the case.

If this scenario becomes a reality then who would be responsible... Answer is the SPFL however I have no illusions the red tops and fans of the affected clubs will be blaming us while conveniently forgetting these clubs would be duplicating the same actions we were condemned for taking.

An interesting few days to come I think.

Edited July 2, 2020 by MMHearts

[RobNox]

2 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

My bet is that it was made up nonsense.

 

I'm with you on this.

 

Two major clubs to provide funding, the obvious candidates would be the old firm, but we already know that Rangers are not enamoured by Doncaster and would like to see the current regime brought down.  Celtic appear to be financially strong, but they have a huge wage bill and potentially damaging legal action of their own to face.  As long as they get their 9iar title, they have no skin in the game as far as promotion or relegation is concerned.  No other club, major or otherwise, has cash to spare on fighting other clubs' battles, so I call this as BS.

[hughesie27]

Do we think this could help our case in any way?

 

https://www.tranmererovers.co.uk/news/2020/july/club-statement/#.Xv4eH5CP39Q.twitter

[Rogue Daddy]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That letter he sent to UEFA to start off the whole "end the season" debacle where he claimed most of the clubs wanted to end the season - let's see the science behind that claim. 

Has this been mentioned over the last couple of days as part of our petition? I’ve not come across anything on this thread since the hearing started... although I’ve not read everything on here. Too much to keep on top of. 
The UEFA letter, for me, is a whopper! That would certainly open the judges eyes!.

[RobNox]

2 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

ditto.  100% agree with this.  To the point can’t see me attending any away games again now tbh. 

I wouldn't boycott all away games, just those at the clubs who tried to shaft us.

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, RobNox said:

I wouldn't boycott all away games, just those at the clubs who tried to shaft us.

If we play Partick, we should fill their entire stadium. Same for ICT. 

 

No one should even visit the City of Dundee or spend a penny in that rancid wee toon. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Did our QC impress today?

[Gilamas]

12 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Has this been mentioned over the last couple of days as part of our petition? I’ve not come across anything on this thread since the hearing started... although I’ve not read everything on here. Too much to keep on top of. 
The UEFA letter, for me, is a whopper! That would certainly open the judges eyes!.

I don't think it is relevant at this stage. It is concerned with "a wrong has occurred." The current matter is concerned with whether court or arbitration is the forum hear about any wrong that had occurred. If the judge finds in our favour after tomorrow, then I suspect it will come more to the fore in the ensuing court case.  

[NANOJAMBO]

14 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Has this been mentioned over the last couple of days as part of our petition? I’ve not come across anything on this thread since the hearing started... although I’ve not read everything on here. Too much to keep on top of. 
The UEFA letter, for me, is a whopper! That would certainly open the judges eyes!.

It hasn't been mentioned and it may or may not be on the list of documents to be requested.  But to me it showed how the SPFL cleared the way for ending the season (at no risk to Celtic) and they did so by leading UEFA to believe it's what the clubs wanted.  Or maybe it really is what the clubs wanted : and he can prove it. 

 

 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

Did our QC impress today?

It seems he did according to our more learned posters. 

 

[David McCaig]

Just now, Sir Gio said:

Did our QC impress today?

 

I thought he performed very well today and it worth noting that the bulk of our unfair prejudice claim was referred to the papers... so we don’t really know the real meat of what we would be arguing in the full trial.

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Did our QC impress today?

I thought so.

 

It was hard to tell / follow at times - he must have the worst broadband in the country. 

[RobNox]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

Will David Thomson QC be speaking tomorrow? 

 

If not, what is happening tomorrow? 

I think we've finished our arguments, so what will happen tomorrow is probably the DUFC et al QC will carry on boring the pants off everyone repeating the same argument that any coherent person could have put across in 30 minutes.  Then the SPFL QC might make another ill judged attempt at Glesgae patter, to which the Lord Clark responds 'aye, right'.

[willie wallace]

I still need some help please in regard to the compensation claims and the huge figures being bandied about.

If either the court or an arbitration panel finds in favour of the SPFL how do we have a claim for compensation.

I must admit that all I really care about is staying in the top flight and have not really given compensation claims much thought.

[bigsuperslim1874]

4 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I thought so.

 

It was hard to tell / follow at times - he must have the worst broadband in the country. 

Very true - it was properly bad! Hopefully better for tomorrow’s battle.

[Dagger Is Back]

1 hour ago, Nelly Terraces said:

I was out for a run earlier & it came into my mind that what would be good is to go through to a couple of Partick games; have a day out & watch a bit of football, instead of giving these other shitehawks our money, certainly think a few of my mates would be up for that & would be great if even a few hundred Hearts fans did the same. Would be good if we were playing Dundee away on the same day Thistle were at home, nice photo of us at Firhill to those kants Twitter page with the message "Heres where your much needed away ticket money''s gone ya fecking losers!" would be nice.

 

Yip. There's a few of us planning exactly that. Organising it en masse would be very powerful

[David McCaig]

2 minutes ago, RobNox said:

I think we've finished our arguments, so what will happen tomorrow is probably the DUFC et al QC will carry on boring the pants off everyone repeating the same argument that any coherent person could have put across in 30 minutes.  Then the SPFL QC might make another ill judged attempt at Glesgae patter, to which the Lord Clark responds 'aye, right'.

I think David Thomson still has to speak tomorrow with regard to our request for evidence.

[Rick Sanchez]

It is hard to tell...our QC is a quiet type who puts his arguments over in a respectful manner.

 

The other two are more outgoing and sound confident and smug in their delivery and answers, which I think a few people take as them winning.

 

Lord Clark is taking absolutely everything in, shown by his comments about us getting booted out. I don't think he'll take a fanciful view on bullies/bullying.

 

It's all going to come down to how Lord Clark interprets the articles and sub sections. And none of us have a scooby doo what he thinks.

 

All to play for.

[RobNox]

12 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

If we play Partick, we should fill their entire stadium. Same for ICT. 

 

No one should even visit the City of Dundee or spend a penny in that rancid wee toon. 

I'd go even further. If we are playing away to one of the clubs who were happy to shaft us, and Partick are playing at home that day, I'd go through to watch Partick.  I'd rather give them my money than some back stabbing *******s.

[bigsuperslim1874]

10 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Did our QC impress today?

I did. He seemed to be on point and prepared for any questions from the Judge.

[DaveyT]

1 hour ago, Chambie15 said:

👆👏👏

Great idea. I might go for a run tomorrow to reset my brain for a good idea

[AlimOzturk]

Will we find out tomorrow if this is going to be heard in court, arbitration or dismissed

 

Can I ask why folk are so against arbitration considering it must be heard in front of a independent panel?

[AlimOzturk]

Will we find out tomorrow if this is going to be heard in court, arbitration or dismissed

 

Can I ask why folk are so against arbitration considering it must be heard in front of a independent panel?

[Miko]

13 minutes ago, willie wallace said:

I still need some help please in regard to the compensation claims and the huge figures being bandied about.

If either the court or an arbitration panel finds in favour of the SPFL how do we have a claim for compensation.

I must admit that all I really care about is staying in the top flight and have not really given compensation claims much thought.

I’d court or arbitration finds in favour of the SPFL then we don’t have a claim for compensation

[Jambo66]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Will we find out tomorrow if this is going to be heard in court, arbitration or dismissed

 

Can I ask why folk are so against arbitration considering it must be heard in front of a independent panel?

Because it is incredibly unlikely that there is time to win reinstatement. 

[dazajmbo]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Will we find out tomorrow if this is going to be heard in court, arbitration or dismissed

 

Can I ask why folk are so against arbitration considering it must be heard in front of a independent panel?

 

I think the SFA are the ones who decide who is on the panel? 

[hibsarepants]

4 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

It is hard to tell...our QC is a quiet type who puts his arguments over in a respectful manner.

 

The other two are more outgoing and sound confident and smug in their delivery and answers, which I think a few people take as them winning.

 

Lord Clark is taking absolutely everything in, shown by his comments about us getting booted out. I don't think he'll take a fanciful view on bullies/bullying.

 

It's all going to come down to how Lord Clark interprets the articles and sub sections. And none of us have a scooby doo what he thinks.

 

All to play for.

I missed the proceedings today but have caught up on various transcripts. One matter I am happy about is that Lord Clark has done his homework and has a good understanding of whats going on in Football Business terms. My concern was that we would have a Judge who wouldn't have an understanding of events around this case similar to previous Judge who asked (some time ago) who is this Paul Gascoigne. Clark knows exactly what's going on as evidenced by some of his questions / points. He will have clocked the bullying implied by the SPFL QC and wont be impressed. He will also note the strong public interest in seeing transparency and openness in how this case is handled going fwd.    

[Jambof3tornado]

13 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I think David Thomson still has to speak tomorrow with regard to our request for evidence.

That will be interesting.

 

Thanks for your concise updates.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Will we find out tomorrow if this is going to be heard in court, arbitration or dismissed

 

Can I ask why folk are so against arbitration considering it must be heard in front of a independent panel?

The independence of the panel under the auspice of the SFA is in the view of many, open to question.

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Will we find out tomorrow if this is going to be heard in court, arbitration or dismissed

 

Can I ask why folk are so against arbitration considering it must be heard in front of a independent panel?

Timescale. It effectively removes reinstatement as a remedy.  It also removes public accountability... and public interest may be a critical factor in the case staying at the COS.

[Newton51]

Just now, dazajmbo said:

 

I think the SFA are the ones who decide who is on the panel? 

 

They spoke about the panel on the first day. There is a list. Both sides pick one and agree on the third on a neutral basis

[Miko]

2 minutes ago, dazajmbo said:

 

I think the SFA are the ones who decide who is on the panel? 

The SFA have the list of panelist’s but they are chosen by both parties who then choose a 3rd member

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

The independence of the panel under the auspice of the SFA is in the view of many, open to question.

Open to question must be the understatement of all time

 

[AlimOzturk]

3 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

Because it is incredibly unlikely that there is time to win reinstatement. 

 

2 minutes ago, dazajmbo said:

 

I think the SFA are the ones who decide who is on the panel? 

 

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

The independence of the panel under the auspice of the SFA is in the view of many, open to question.

 

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

Timescale. It effectively removes reinstatement as a remedy.  It also removes public accountability... and public interest may be a critical factor in the case staying at the COS.

 

Ah right cheers. Didn't realise it would take so long to get a panel together. Surely the judge could out a few rules down regarding time scale and the folk who should be on the panel?

[Jambof3tornado]

5 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Will we find out tomorrow if this is going to be heard in court, arbitration or dismissed

 

Can I ask why folk are so against arbitration considering it must be heard in front of a independent panel?

Independent secret panel selected by those we are up against.

[Jambof3tornado]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

 

 

 

Ah right cheers. Didn't realise it would take so long to get a panel together. Surely the judge could out a few rules down regarding time scale and the folk who should be on the panel?

Its not up to the judge to select the panel or give direction on rules etc.