SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Last Laff]

17 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Probably people just reflecting the fact that we are wank and we’re probably going down

there’s no way at all to say if hearts were going down as there was still shit loads to play for. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

there’s no way at all to say if hearts were going down as there was still shit loads to play for. 

Four wins in 30 games, although I accept we’d turned the corner with that defeat at St Mirren.

[Last Laff]

46 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Four wins in 30 games, although I accept we’d turned the corner with that defeat at St Mirren.

While true we still have/had a squad capable of getting out the mess and I believe in my gut we would have. Huns Hibs and Motherwell second half fuels that belief.  St Mirren was a disaster, aye and the worst timing possible but that kind of loss has happened to us throughout any run good or bad in our history.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Last Laff

[kingantti1874]

45 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Four wins in 30 games, although I accept we’d turned the corner with that defeat at St Mirren.

How many wins have Hamilton had? and Ross country were in free fall.. we wouldn’t have gone down

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Surprising how many would bend over and touch their toes on this thread. There is no rhyme nor reason to relegate HMFC and any attempt should be fought tooth and nail.

This. And I’m sure it would/will be. 

[Last Laff]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

How many wins have Hamilton had? and Ross country were in free fall.. we wouldn’t have gone down

I think we would end up beating Robbo in the playoff.  

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Surprising how many would bend over and touch their toes on this thread. There is no rhyme nor reason to relegate HMFC and any attempt should be fought tooth and nail.

this Geoff.. spineless *****

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Probably people just reflecting the fact that we are wank and we’re probably going down

 

Like like on the last day of the season in 86 (or with 8 games to go for that matter) we were brilliant and were probably going to win the title? But didn't because... football.

Edited April 7, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Fozzyonthefence]

9 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

I think we would end up beating Robbo in the playoff.  

We wouldn’t if he got another player to play beside him.

[Last Laff]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

We wouldn’t if he got another player to play beside him.

Very true. He could still do a job no doubt. 

[Pasquale for King]

Fifa adamant that leagues will finish at some point, transfer window will open between the old one finishing and new one starting, the best bit being that contracts will be extended to cover whenever the season ends. I don’t think that’s legal to be honest, if a player didn’t want to sign an extension they won’t need to. 

If nothing else it means if we do have to finish the season we will have to use the players we have minus those out of contract unless they sign some form of extension.

Let’s see what the SFA come up with today.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Bickfest]

9 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Surprising how many would bend over and touch their toes on this thread. There is no rhyme nor reason to relegate HMFC and any attempt should be fought tooth and nail.

This, in spades

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

9 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Surprising how many would bend over and touch their toes on this thread. There is no rhyme nor reason to relegate HMFC and any attempt should be fought tooth and nail.

Totally agree with you! If league had continued we were going down in my opinion but no way we should accept it without playing out the games 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Totally agree with you! If league had continued we were going down in my opinion but no way we should accept it without playing out the games 

I'd have a bigger problem with our club accepting it than with the authorities trying to enforce it.

 

We're not going down without a full season of fixtures.

[HMFCHammy]

10 hours ago, OldGorgie said:For them clubs like Forfar and Peterhead are just as important as Hearts. So don’t expect any favours from them.

surely that’s flawed reasoning?

whilst I agree the old form get preferential treatment why should EVERY club be treated equal. It is a members organisation after all.

we should be no more or less important to every member 

[frankblack]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Fifa adamant that leagues will finish at some point, transfer window will open between the old one finishing and new one starting, the best bit being that contracts will be extended to cover whenever the season ends. I don’t think that’s legal to be honest, if a player didn’t want to sign an extension they won’t need to. 

If nothing else it means if we do have to finish the season we will have to use the players we have minus those out of contract unless they sign some form of extension.

Let’s see what the SFA come up with today.

 

Fifa/UEFA are pigs with their heads in the trough where cash matters for the big 5 above all sporting integrity.

 

Leagues such as Scotland can't afford to sit around indefinitely burning cash as their clubs will go out of business.

 

Belgium have told them to ram it, with the dutch due to declare similar, and hopefully the SPFL will grow a pair and reach a decision based on sporting integrity.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Fifa/UEFA are pigs with their heads in the trough where cash matters for the big 5 above all sporting integrity.

 

Leagues such as Scotland can't afford to sit around indefinitely burning cash as their clubs will go out of business.

 

Belgium have told them to ram it, with the dutch due to declare similar, and hopefully the SPFL will grow a pair and reach a decision based on sporting integrity.

Correct, the rest of us can drown in shite as long as the big guns are looked after.

Fifa and uefa aren't about the best interests of football, they're about the best interests of the elite few

[RonnieG]

So are we believing that Rangers have started digging up their pitch? 

[jr ewing]

What's the rush to do anything just now?

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, jr ewing said:

What's the rush to do anything just now?

I think certain clubs are desperate for TV cash!! We need to make sure we are in a position to wait this out if need be.

 

Personally, I think null and void is the only fair outcome.  Failing that as it stands but no relegation.

 

If not, then we have to wait for the resumption and finish... Hopefully with Craig Gordon in goals and Souttar/Haring fit again!!

Edited April 8, 2020 by David McCaig

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

12 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

So are we believing that Rangers have started digging up their pitch? 

Eh?

[jock _turd]

20 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Correct, the rest of us can drown in shite as long as the big guns are looked after.

Fifa and uefa aren't about the best interests of football, they're about the best interests of the elite few

 

This in spades! They are only interested in making money for themselves and even then they are so greedy they then get caught taking bribes ... makes you want to puke. 

[allystrachan]

14 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

So are we believing that Rangers have started digging up their pitch? 

I seen that earlier but surely they haven’t. I know they were planning a hybrid pitch but even if that was planned for the summer the work wouldn’t be starting now.

[jr ewing]

9 minutes ago, allystrachan said:

I seen that earlier but surely they haven’t. I know they were planning a hybrid pitch but even if that was planned for the summer the work wouldn’t be starting now.

Guess they've decided there's no need to wait. 

[RonnieG]

Dutch league starting up in June behind closed doors.  If SPFL suggest that it will be interesting to see how they handle contracts.  I think Killie only have about 4 players in contract after end of May.  Not sure what our situation is.

[frankblack]

29 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

So are we believing that Rangers have started digging up their pitch? 

 

To plant tatties? At least that would give them something to lift at the end of the season!

 

 

.... i'll get ma coat.

[wavydavy]

14 minutes ago, RonnieG said:

Dutch league starting up in June behind closed doors.  If SPFL suggest that it will be interesting to see how they handle contracts.  I think Killie only have about 4 players in contract after end of May.  Not sure what our situation is.

I am sure I read that they would allow extensions to contracts to see out the season.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

I am sure I read that they would allow extensions to contracts to see out the season.

Maybe they would allow it but what about players who don't want extensions, or who are back in their home country and can't get back, or don't want to risk their lives to play a sport?

 

The dutch league isn't starting in june.

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Maybe they would allow it but what about players who don't want extensions, or who are back in their home country and can't get back, or don't want to risk their lives to play a sport?

 

The dutch league isn't starting in june.

Or players who've signed a contract of employment with a new club paying vastly more money from 1 June onwards?

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Or players who've signed a contract of employment with a new club paying vastly more money from 1 June onwards?

June's 8 weeks away, theres no way everything's calming down and back to enough normality to allow a mini pre season before then.

And anyway, if we have to keep people apart so much that crowds aren't allowed, how TF can a contact sport be justified, behind closed doors or otherwise?

[The Old Tolbooth]

11 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Some sort of deal will be done. 

That’s my thinking too, other clubs finances are getting tighter by the day, we take a big following away from home... 

[David McCaig]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

June's 8 weeks away, theres no way everything's calming down and back to enough normality to allow a mini pre season before then.

And anyway, if we have to keep people apart so much that crowds aren't allowed, how TF can a contact sport be justified, behind closed doors or otherwise?

I completely agree with you.

 

What UEFA/FIFA are proposing re player contracts is preposterous at best and almost certainly illegal.

[Unknown user]

Just now, The Old Tolbooth said:

That’s my thinking too, other clubs finances are getting tighter by the day, we take a big following away from home... 

Exactly what I've been getting at, Chairmen will vote for their financial benefit above everything else, it's desperate times.

[Beast Boy]

So we restart in June, and put lives at risk through contravening infection control measures, then we have players running around with no pre-season fitness regime, and we just hope they don’t get injured? 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

So we restart in June, and put lives at risk through contravening infection control measures, then we have players running around with no pre-season fitness regime, and we just hope they don’t get injured? 

Laughable.

[wavydavy]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Maybe they would allow it but what about players who don't want extensions, or who are back in their home country and can't get back, or don't want to risk their lives to play a sport?

 

The dutch league isn't starting in june.

 

They wouldn't be obliged to extend. They are talking about a six week notice for group training prior to games being played.

[frankblack]

9 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

So we restart in June, and put lives at risk through contravening infection control measures, then we have players running around with no pre-season fitness regime, and we just hope they don’t get injured? 

 

Maybe they should buy a remote island somewhere and set up a football pitch and keep the players in isolation beforehand as is being proposed by wrestling to get some matches on!

 

There are some increasingly desperate schemes being conceived by the fat cats to get their cash.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

They wouldn't be obliged to extend. They are talking about a six week notice for group training prior to games being played.

It doesn't work. If contracts expire then it isn't a fair finale to the season, any club that just happens to have more out of contract players this summer is automatically at a disadvantage. I don't see any way to end this season with any degree of fairness. 

[Nookie Bear]

15 minutes ago, Smithee said:

It doesn't work. If contracts expire then it isn't a fair finale to the season, any club that just happens to have more out of contract players this summer is automatically at a disadvantage. I don't see any way to end this season with any degree of fairness. 

True but, for me, it’s the least unfair solution I can think of. 
 

In the circumstances I think a lot of players would be happy to extend by a month or two, assuming the transfer deadline is pushed back to the end-Oct. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Nookie Bear

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

True but, for me, it’s the least unfair solution I can think of. 
 

In the circumstances I think a lot of players would be happy to extend by a month or two, assuming the transfer deadline is pushed back to the end-Oct. 

A big problem is our voting structure, I can't see any proposal getting enough clubs behind it because different clubs want different things.

I can't see anything other than a voided season.

[Heartsofgold]

As I said in previous posts, what UEFA are suggesting is not possible from either a legal, moral or physical stand point.

 

1.  Legal - Contracts that finish on a particular day are finished end of story.  They CANNOT be legally extended arbitrarily.  Players that do not want to sign can walk away and quite right too.

 

2.  Moral - As others have said, how the hell can the football 'authorities' flaunt the ACTUAL Authorities guidance on social distancing and isolation procedures.  Even with no crowds there is a requirement to have medical personnel, including an ambulance, available for a major sporting fixture (although with no crowd in the stadia maybe this will not be the case??).  These personnel are required elsewhere, not at an entertainment event.

 

3.  Physical - The players have not played for weeks and it would be potentially 8-12 weeks between games.  A mini pre-season would not cut it at all.  There is no way on Earth that any teams players will be physically able to handle a professional contact sport after that kind of break.

 

We are down to 2 options now.

 

1.  Call games a bogie and cancel league season 2019-2020.  Very very unpopular, and potentially financially chaotic, in the upper echelons of football.  We are talking potentially Billions of £ having to be repaid to sponsers and media companies.

 

2.  Call the league as is but with reconstruction to provide fairness.  No relegation and promote the top 2 in the leagues below.  This can be a temporary measure for 1/2 seasons with increased relegation to even things out over a short term.  The sticking point here is the increased spread of existing prise money.  Well tough.  This is the ONLY fair option.

[Stendelsarmy]

5 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

As I said in previous posts, what UEFA are suggesting is not possible from either a legal, moral or physical stand point.

 

1.  Legal - Contracts that finish on a particular day are finished end of story.  They CANNOT be legally extended arbitrarily.  Players that do not want to sign can walk away and quite right too.

 

2.  Moral - As others have said, how the hell can the football 'authorities' flaunt the ACTUAL Authorities guidance on social distancing and isolation procedures.  Even with no crowds there is a requirement to have medical personnel, including an ambulance, available for a major sporting fixture (although with no crowd in the stadia maybe this will not be the case??).  These personnel are required elsewhere, not at an entertainment event.

 

3.  Physical - The players have not played for weeks and it would be potentially 8-12 weeks between games.  A mini pre-season would not cut it at all.  There is no way on Earth that any teams players will be physically able to handle a professional contact sport after that kind of break.

 

We are down to 2 options now.

 

1.  Call games a bogie and cancel league season 2019-2020.  Very very unpopular, and potentially financially chaotic, in the upper echelons of football.  We are talking potentially Billions of £ having to be repaid to sponsers and media companies.

 

2.  Call the league as is but with reconstruction to provide fairness.  No relegation and promote the top 2 in the leagues below.  This can be a temporary measure for 1/2 seasons with increased relegation to even things out over a short term.  The sticking point here is the increased spread of existing prise money.  Well tough.  This is the ONLY fair option.

 

That's great except option 2 isn't fair. How is it fair to call a champion, to call European places and to call promotion places in the leagues below when the season isn't finished? 

 

Fair is option 1, no-one had won any of the leagues yet so nothing is being stolen away. No-one had been relegated yet so no-one is getting away with anything. 

[Nookie Bear]

11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

A big problem is our voting structure, I can't see any proposal getting enough clubs behind it because different clubs want different things.

I can't see anything other than a voided season.

Well at some point a decision is going to have to be made and it won’t please everybody. 

[Nookie Bear]

10 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

As I said in previous posts, what UEFA are suggesting is not possible from either a legal, moral or physical stand point.

 

1.  Legal - Contracts that finish on a particular day are finished end of story.  They CANNOT be legally extended arbitrarily.  Players that do not want to sign can walk away and quite right too.

 

2.  Moral - As others have said, how the hell can the football 'authorities' flaunt the ACTUAL Authorities guidance on social distancing and isolation procedures.  Even with no crowds there is a requirement to have medical personnel, including an ambulance, available for a major sporting fixture (although with no crowd in the stadia maybe this will not be the case??).  These personnel are required elsewhere, not at an entertainment event.

 

3.  Physical - The players have not played for weeks and it would be potentially 8-12 weeks between games.  A mini pre-season would not cut it at all.  There is no way on Earth that any teams players will be physically able to handle a professional contact sport after that kind of break.

 

We are down to 2 options now.

 

1.  Call games a bogie and cancel league season 2019-2020.  Very very unpopular, and potentially financially chaotic, in the upper echelons of football.  We are talking potentially Billions of £ having to be repaid to sponsers and media companies.

 

2.  Call the league as is but with reconstruction to provide fairness.  No relegation and promote the top 2 in the leagues below.  This can be a temporary measure for 1/2 seasons with increased relegation to even things out over a short term.  The sticking point here is the increased spread of existing prise money.  Well tough.  This is the ONLY fair option.

Just quickly on your first point: as it stands, the players might be open to having their contracts extended by a month or two as the alternative is being a free agent in a world where clubs are cutting/deferring salaries and fearing for their TV income. 

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

As I said in previous posts, what UEFA are suggesting is not possible from either a legal, moral or physical stand point.

 

1.  Legal - Contracts that finish on a particular day are finished end of story.  They CANNOT be legally extended arbitrarily.  Players that do not want to sign can walk away and quite right too.

 

2.  Moral - As others have said, how the hell can the football 'authorities' flaunt the ACTUAL Authorities guidance on social distancing and isolation procedures.  Even with no crowds there is a requirement to have medical personnel, including an ambulance, available for a major sporting fixture (although with no crowd in the stadia maybe this will not be the case??).  These personnel are required elsewhere, not at an entertainment event.

 

3.  Physical - The players have not played for weeks and it would be potentially 8-12 weeks between games.  A mini pre-season would not cut it at all.  There is no way on Earth that any teams players will be physically able to handle a professional contact sport after that kind of break.

 

We are down to 2 options now.

 

1.  Call games a bogie and cancel league season 2019-2020.  Very very unpopular, and potentially financially chaotic, in the upper echelons of football.  We are talking potentially Billions of £ having to be repaid to sponsers and media companies.

 

2.  Call the league as is but with reconstruction to provide fairness.  No relegation and promote the top 2 in the leagues below.  This can be a temporary measure for 1/2 seasons with increased relegation to even things out over a short term.  The sticking point here is the increased spread of existing prise money.  Well tough.  This is the ONLY fair option.

 

4 minutes ago, Stendelsarmy said:

 

That's great except option 2 isn't fair. How is it fair to call a champion, to call European places and to call promotion places in the leagues below when the season isn't finished? 

 

Fair is option 1, no-one had won any of the leagues yet so nothing is being stolen away. No-one had been relegated yet so no-one is getting away with anything. 

 

2 good posts

[Prof J]

54 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I don't see any way to end this season with any degree of fairness. 

Absolutely correct but unfortunately neither the SPFL or UEFA are remotely interested in fairness.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Our problem is  the SFA and the SPFL are briking it from making any decision appart from declaring Celtic champions because they just cant cope with the victimidation they impose.  So they are hoping that Yoofa and Feefu will make that decision, but they are sprouting that the leagues MUST finish.  Its as though they think they have the overruling authority over governments....well news flash, based on the China and Wuhan model we are miles away from a gradual restoration to normality and Mass gatherings  just might not happen this year?  but at best I think and only my opinion is that at best october.  Its been stated that clubs want 6 weeks for traing before a ball is kicked.  Not sure about contracts being extended, that is a 2 way street?  some clubs might not have a squad?

 

So back to reality the SFA and the SPFL want Yoofa  the most corrupt institution in the world making a fair and moral decicion where greed and preserve the elite are first and foremost?  Just so the SPFL can say to Celtic or Hearts ops sorry its not our decision you will have to live with it.  Sevco dont think there is any football for the next 2 months otherwise they would not have dug up their pitch.  So grow a pair and just call it with a 42 club vote, based on this season WONT be played to a conclusion.  Yoofa dont actualy have the teeth

[RonnieG]

Lower league clubs have apparently voted to finish the leagues as they stand.  Nothing about promotion or relegation mentioned. Nothing confirmed yet, and nothing about SPL yet.   

[Tasavallan]

35 minutes ago, Smithee said:

A big problem is our voting structure, I can't see any proposal getting enough clubs behind it because different clubs want different things.

I can't see anything other than a voided season.

The lockdown will continue beyond the end dates of many players contracts.  The season cannot be completed, so voided.

Promotion throughout the pyramid but no relegation.  Brora and Kelty are rich enough to come into the 2nd Div.

 

 

[David McCaig]

3 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

The lockdown will continue beyond the end dates of many players contracts.  The season cannot be completed, so voided.

Promotion throughout the pyramid but no relegation.  Brora and Kelty are rich enough to come into the 2nd Div.

 

 

As others have said, does removing the play-offs in any final standings scenario constitute league reconstruction and therefore require to be voted, through, presumably with the 11-1 requirement in the SPFL?.