The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Mysterion]

43 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

If it’s another No you’d have to possibly think the exit is permanently bricked up after that. Im aware that unionists want this but I always think that the potential exit possibly keeps the WM govt on their toes. There must always be the option to go if the people here decide want that. 
I mean Scotland is one of the largest energy producers in Europe for the last 40 years with loads of potential for green energy going forward and we’re looking at our lights going out and energy prices spiralling going forward. I know it’s global prices etc and not helped with the pandemic but it’s been exacerbated for us by this brexit nonsense. 
We must always have the option imo. 

 

Westminster have done their best to brick it up already. 

It's taking a Supreme Court case already to get one in place as the South have refused to co-operate. 

 

If Westminster wins that case then I imagine that Boris & Co will eventually allow Indie Ref 2 on the condition that there's no request for a referendum for 20yrs. 

 

I don't find that acceptable as I personally believe that politically the country is gradually moving moving towards Indie and it's naturally going to over 50% in the next decade. Any precondition over 10yrs is stifling democracy (although I accept those who oppose it would argue differently).

[henryheart]

17 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm 60 and disagree with your ignorant post.

 

If you are able, please explain.

 

Many thanks.

[Taffin]

6 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

For me the SNP can whistle. Scottish Independence does not belong the them. They will drive it sure, but I only need to see all the shite that being part of this union has cost my country and then I look at similar sized independent countries that are successful to know we should be too (Ireland, Belgium, Finland, Iceland, Norway etc etc etc.).

 

If anything, I need convinced that the union is the way to go but to be honest, I wont hold my breath.

 

Good post 👍👍

[Roxy Hearts]

32 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

If you are able, please explain.

 

Many thanks.

No need for the condescending tone! There's nothing "ideological" about wishing your country to run it's own affairs. Most countries do and ignorant to suggest otherwise. 

 

Do you think we can self govern?

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

No need for the condescending tone! There's nothing "ideological" about wishing your country to run it's own affairs. Most countries do and ignorant to suggest otherwise. 

 

Do you think we can self govern?

[henryheart]

4 hours ago, Auldbenches said:

It's baffling how they can't grasp that there will be options if we got independence.

So blinded by their dislike of a party that it blinds them to what democracy is 

As soon as we get there I'm campaigning to rid ourselves of parochial party politics. 

This discussion has shown why.

 

 

 

 

 

It is all very well talking about options but the quality on show in the Scottish Parliament is desperately weak. Would independence bring in a new raft of parliamentarians? When the Scottish Parliament started there was a strong chamber of experienced politicians on all sides who had the back up and knowledge of large scale party politics based in Westminster and where debate was encouraged. Parties are now more than ever plucking prospective MSPs out of local party groups, many of which have not even had the experience of being local councillors. Scottish Labour has lost its way and has nobody left of substance, the Conservatives produce the odd shining light but has no depth, and the Liberals will never to anything other than potter along and are best left to focus on local issues. As for the SNP, it only thrives on the cult of its leader; be honest, who can take over from her and do as well?

 

It is all very well saying that there will be options if Scotland becomes independent, but what are those options? There is no debate of quality in the Scottish Parliament because the quality of MSPs, on all sides, is frankly appalling. Is independence is not going to change that? I'm not convinced.  I've always taken the view that you vote for someone, not against someone, and to be perfectly honest I cannot think of one politician in the Scottish Parliament that I think is worth voting for as, except for Sturgeon, there are no great parliamentarians. 

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, henryheart said:

 

It is all very well talking about options but the quality on show in the Scottish Parliament is desperately weak. Would independence bring in a new raft of parliamentarians? When the Scottish Parliament started there was a strong chamber of experienced politicians on all sides who had the back up and knowledge of large scale party politics based in Westminster and where debate was encouraged. Parties are now more than ever plucking prospective MSPs out of local party groups, many of which have not even had the experience of being local councillors. Scottish Labour has lost its way and has nobody left of substance, the Conservatives produce the odd shining light but has no depth, and the Liberals will never to anything other than potter along and are best left to focus on local issues. As for the SNP, it only thrives on the cult of its leader; be honest, who can take over from her and do as well?

 

It is all very well saying that there will be options if Scotland becomes independent, but what are those options? There is no debate of quality in the Scottish Parliament because the quality of MSPs, on all sides, is frankly appalling. Is independence is not going to change that? I'm not convinced.  I've always taken the view that you vote for someone, not against someone, and to be perfectly honest I cannot think of one politician in the Scottish Parliament that I think is worth voting for as, except for Sturgeon, there are no great parliamentarians. 

Anyone could say ditto Westminster. 

I wouldn't be voting against something if voting yes, it would be for a fairer society and a more modern democracy. 

Who are the great parliamentarians in Westminster just now.

I was only replying to the usual posts about post independence being a one party state.

That obviously wouldn't be the case no matter the quality of the politicians on offer. 

Everything else is a different debate. 

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

It is all very well talking about options but the quality on show in the Scottish Parliament is desperately weak. Would independence bring in a new raft of parliamentarians? When the Scottish Parliament started there was a strong chamber of experienced politicians on all sides who had the back up and knowledge of large scale party politics based in Westminster and where debate was encouraged. Parties are now more than ever plucking prospective MSPs out of local party groups, many of which have not even had the experience of being local councillors. Scottish Labour has lost its way and has nobody left of substance, the Conservatives produce the odd shining light but has no depth, and the Liberals will never to anything other than potter along and are best left to focus on local issues. As for the SNP, it only thrives on the cult of its leader; be honest, who can take over from her and do as well?

 

It is all very well saying that there will be options if Scotland becomes independent, but what are those options? There is no debate of quality in the Scottish Parliament because the quality of MSPs, on all sides, is frankly appalling. Is independence is not going to change that? I'm not convinced.  I've always taken the view that you vote for someone, not against someone, and to be perfectly honest I cannot think of one politician in the Scottish Parliament that I think is worth voting for as, except for Sturgeon, there are no great parliamentarians. 

The quality of politician across the whole of the UK is very weak.

There are very few capable politicians anywhere.

Though Andy Burnham the current Mayor of Manchester if he doesn't let power corrupt him, could be the exception.

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

The quality of politician across the whole of the UK is very weak.

There are very few capable politicians anywhere.

Though Andy Burnham the current Mayor of Manchester if he doesn't let power corrupt him, could be the exception.

This. 

 

The governments are bad enough but the oppositions are fecking woeful. 

[jack D and coke]

20 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

It is all very well talking about options but the quality on show in the Scottish Parliament is desperately weak. Would independence bring in a new raft of parliamentarians? When the Scottish Parliament started there was a strong chamber of experienced politicians on all sides who had the back up and knowledge of large scale party politics based in Westminster and where debate was encouraged. Parties are now more than ever plucking prospective MSPs out of local party groups, many of which have not even had the experience of being local councillors. Scottish Labour has lost its way and has nobody left of substance, the Conservatives produce the odd shining light but has no depth, and the Liberals will never to anything other than potter along and are best left to focus on local issues. As for the SNP, it only thrives on the cult of its leader; be honest, who can take over from her and do as well?

 

It is all very well saying that there will be options if Scotland becomes independent, but what are those options? There is no debate of quality in the Scottish Parliament because the quality of MSPs, on all sides, is frankly appalling. Is independence is not going to change that? I'm not convinced.  I've always taken the view that you vote for someone, not against someone, and to be perfectly honest I cannot think of one politician in the Scottish Parliament that I think is worth voting for as, except for Sturgeon, there are no great parliamentarians. 

Hard to disagree with you here. 

[Auldbenches]

32 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

It is all very well talking about options but the quality on show in the Scottish Parliament is desperately weak. Would independence bring in a new raft of parliamentarians? When the Scottish Parliament started there was a strong chamber of experienced politicians on all sides who had the back up and knowledge of large scale party politics based in Westminster and where debate was encouraged. Parties are now more than ever plucking prospective MSPs out of local party groups, many of which have not even had the experience of being local councillors. Scottish Labour has lost its way and has nobody left of substance, the Conservatives produce the odd shining light but has no depth, and the Liberals will never to anything other than potter along and are best left to focus on local issues. As for the SNP, it only thrives on the cult of its leader; be honest, who can take over from her and do as well?

 

It is all very well saying that there will be options if Scotland becomes independent, but what are those options? There is no debate of quality in the Scottish Parliament because the quality of MSPs, on all sides, is frankly appalling. Is independence is not going to change that? I'm not convinced.  I've always taken the view that you vote for someone, not against someone, and to be perfectly honest I cannot think of one politician in the Scottish Parliament that I think is worth voting for as, except for Sturgeon, there are no great parliamentarians. 

You are spot on regarding the quality of MSPs.  

I know of one counsellor uo my way who thought he was only there to make uo the numbers when the snp swept to power in 2011.  He didn't want it but had no choice.  

I do think Holyrood has had an impact on the quality of local Councillors that we have now.

Those MSPs that were barely any good as councillors have been replaced by people who wouldn't have got near local office.

 

Just to add that this is evident in Scottish government ministers being given various portfolios as the quality wasn't there. 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Auldbenches

[henryheart]

44 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

No need for the condescending tone! There's nothing "ideological" about wishing your country to run it's own affairs. Most countries do and ignorant to suggest otherwise. 

 

Do you think we can self govern?

 

I would not suggest that Scotland cannot run its own affairs, but even John Swinney recognises that there are financial risks. He admits that Scotland not having access to quantitative easing (as would be the case for at least a decade) would make it unable to deal with financial hardships. It would also not have the benefit of borrowing on the basis of a fiscal history (the UK has a good credit rating as it has always paid its debts and gets loans at good rates; Scotland has no credit rating). 

 

I see no point in independence if it does not mean that it is going to be a better place to live in. I would question whether Scotland could self govern in a way that can provide the population with the standard of living it currently has, and if it cannot then what is the point? 

 

I'm perfectly happy for others to have a different view.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

I would not suggest that Scotland cannot run its own affairs, but even John Swinney recognises that there are financial risks. He admits that Scotland not having access to quantitative easing (as would be the case for at least a decade) would make it unable to deal with financial hardships. It would also not have the benefit of borrowing on the basis of a fiscal history (the UK has a good credit rating as it has always paid its debts and gets loans at good rates; Scotland has no credit rating). 

 

I see no point in independence if it does not mean that it is going to be a better place to live in. I would question whether Scotland could self govern in a way that can provide the population with the standard of living it currently has, and if it cannot then what is the point? 

 

I'm perfectly happy for others to have a different view.

 

Good posting 

[Des Lynam]

59 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

It is all very well talking about options but the quality on show in the Scottish Parliament is desperately weak. Would independence bring in a new raft of parliamentarians? When the Scottish Parliament started there was a strong chamber of experienced politicians on all sides who had the back up and knowledge of large scale party politics based in Westminster and where debate was encouraged. Parties are now more than ever plucking prospective MSPs out of local party groups, many of which have not even had the experience of being local councillors. Scottish Labour has lost its way and has nobody left of substance, the Conservatives produce the odd shining light but has no depth, and the Liberals will never to anything other than potter along and are best left to focus on local issues. As for the SNP, it only thrives on the cult of its leader; be honest, who can take over from her and do as well?

 

It is all very well saying that there will be options if Scotland becomes independent, but what are those options? There is no debate of quality in the Scottish Parliament because the quality of MSPs, on all sides, is frankly appalling. Is independence is not going to change that? I'm not convinced.  I've always taken the view that you vote for someone, not against someone, and to be perfectly honest I cannot think of one politician in the Scottish Parliament that I think is worth voting for as, except for Sturgeon, there are no great parliamentarians. 

 

12 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

I would not suggest that Scotland cannot run its own affairs, but even John Swinney recognises that there are financial risks. He admits that Scotland not having access to quantitative easing (as would be the case for at least a decade) would make it unable to deal with financial hardships. It would also not have the benefit of borrowing on the basis of a fiscal history (the UK has a good credit rating as it has always paid its debts and gets loans at good rates; Scotland has no credit rating). 

 

I see no point in independence if it does not mean that it is going to be a better place to live in. I would question whether Scotland could self govern in a way that can provide the population with the standard of living it currently has, and if it cannot then what is the point? 

 

I'm perfectly happy for others to have a different view.

 

Great posts. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

I would not suggest that Scotland cannot run its own affairs, but even John Swinney recognises that there are financial risks. He admits that Scotland not having access to quantitative easing (as would be the case for at least a decade) would make it unable to deal with financial hardships. It would also not have the benefit of borrowing on the basis of a fiscal history (the UK has a good credit rating as it has always paid its debts and gets loans at good rates; Scotland has no credit rating). 

 

I see no point in independence if it does not mean that it is going to be a better place to live in. I would question whether Scotland could self govern in a way that can provide the population with the standard of living it currently has, and if it cannot then what is the point? 

 

I'm perfectly happy for others to have a different view.

 

Pretty much where I'm at. 

 

Its too much like religion just now. Have faith/believe/trust it will be fine. 

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

17 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

I would not suggest that Scotland cannot run its own affairs, but even John Swinney recognises that there are financial risks. He admits that Scotland not having access to quantitative easing (as would be the case for at least a decade) would make it unable to deal with financial hardships. It would also not have the benefit of borrowing on the basis of a fiscal history (the UK has a good credit rating as it has always paid its debts and gets loans at good rates; Scotland has no credit rating). 

 

I see no point in independence if it does not mean that it is going to be a better place to live in. I would question whether Scotland could self govern in a way that can provide the population with the standard of living it currently has, and if it cannot then what is the point? 

 

I'm perfectly happy for others to have a different view.

 

Eloquently put. Happy to disagree though. 

[Taffin]

22 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

I would not suggest that Scotland cannot run its own affairs, but even John Swinney recognises that there are financial risks. He admits that Scotland not having access to quantitative easing (as would be the case for at least a decade) would make it unable to deal with financial hardships. It would also not have the benefit of borrowing on the basis of a fiscal history (the UK has a good credit rating as it has always paid its debts and gets loans at good rates; Scotland has no credit rating). 

 

I see no point in independence if it does not mean that it is going to be a better place to live in. I would question whether Scotland could self govern in a way that can provide the population with the standard of living it currently has, and if it cannot then what is the point? 

 

I'm perfectly happy for others to have a different view.

 

 

That's a really good post. Not one I agree with but very well put all the same 👍

 

As for the bit in bold, that didn't come through in your original post on the topic. It read as though age somehow brings a better vision on things, it read very condescending. My opinion is as people age they have more so are more in favour of the status quo. Selfish? Maybe. Sensible? Maybe. Wiser? No, not imo...they've just let go of their ideals which I find quite sad and hope it never happens to me.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Taffin

[Enzo Chiefo]

The only thing that would "go away" in the event of separation would be the aspirational class. There would be a huge population movement south of the border.

Sturgeon would also avoid the impending financial chaos and likely head to pastures new, probably with a mutually insipid organisation like the UN or some "Yooman Rights" charity.

Those remaining in Scotland would be left with the glorified parish councillors, loony left-wingers, ex-outreach workers & other public sector non-job holders, and self-entitled holders of sociology degrees that currently infest the Shortbread Senate.

Thankfully, there will never be Freedumb in any of our lifetime's as any future question put to the Scottish people would be  Remain/Leave, with possibly a devo-max option, and would require a confirmatory plebiscite after negotiated terms had been agreed (if applicable). 

The Yes/No question has been consigned to the rubbish bins, the battered old vehicles owned by the less desirable class and in the minds of the fanatics.

Not even the stray cats of Dennistoun, Govanhill or Lochee would vote for a proposition like that!

 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Until we get competent politicians 

( and we have none whatsover) with the answers to the important Indy questions they can ram independence right up their Clarence Carter’s 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The only thing that would "go away" in the event of separation would be the aspirational class. There would be a huge population movement south of the border.

Sturgeon would also avoid the impending financial chaos and likely head to pastures new, probably with a mutually insipid organisation like the UN or some "Yooman Rights" charity.

Those remaining in Scotland would be left with the glorified parish councillors, loony left-wingers, ex-outreach workers & other public sector non-job holders, and self-entitled holders of sociology degrees that currently infest the Shortbread Senate.

Thankfully, there will never be Freedumb in any of our lifetime's as any future question put to the Scottish people would be  Remain/Leave, with possibly a devo-max option, and would require a confirmatory plebiscite after negotiated terms had been agreed (if applicable). 

The Yes/No question has been consigned to the rubbish bins, the battered old vehicles owned by the less desirable class and in the minds of the fanatics.

Not even the stray cats of Dennistoun, Govanhill or Lochee would vote for a proposition like that!

 

 

 

If there was ever another vote, it wouldn't be yes/no. More likely separate/remain or something similar

[jack D and coke]

38 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The only thing that would "go away" in the event of separation would be the aspirational class. There would be a huge population movement south of the border.

Sturgeon would also avoid the impending financial chaos and likely head to pastures new, probably with a mutually insipid organisation like the UN or some "Yooman Rights" charity.

Those remaining in Scotland would be left with the glorified parish councillors, loony left-wingers, ex-outreach workers & other public sector non-job holders, and self-entitled holders of sociology degrees that currently infest the Shortbread Senate.

Thankfully, there will never be Freedumb in any of our lifetime's as any future question put to the Scottish people would be  Remain/Leave, with possibly a devo-max option, and would require a confirmatory plebiscite after negotiated terms had been agreed (if applicable). 

The Yes/No question has been consigned to the rubbish bins, the battered old vehicles owned by the less desirable class and in the minds of the fanatics.

Not even the stray cats of Dennistoun, Govanhill or Lochee would vote for a proposition like that!

 

 

 

Drivel. Absolute drivel  

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The only thing that would "go away" in the event of separation would be the aspirational class. There would be a huge population movement south of the border.

Sturgeon would also avoid the impending financial chaos and likely head to pastures new, probably with a mutually insipid organisation like the UN or some "Yooman Rights" charity.

Those remaining in Scotland would be left with the glorified parish councillors, loony left-wingers, ex-outreach workers & other public sector non-job holders, and self-entitled holders of sociology degrees that currently infest the Shortbread Senate.

Thankfully, there will never be Freedumb in any of our lifetime's as any future question put to the Scottish people would be  Remain/Leave, with possibly a devo-max option, and would require a confirmatory plebiscite after negotiated terms had been agreed (if applicable). 

The Yes/No question has been consigned to the rubbish bins, the battered old vehicles owned by the less desirable class and in the minds of the fanatics.

Not even the stray cats of Dennistoun, Govanhill or Lochee would vote for a proposition like that!

 

 

 

What a bleak posting ….. but terribly accurate and has me in stitches 🧵 😀🤪

[jack D and coke]

28 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

What a bleak posting ….. but terribly accurate and has me in stitches 🧵 😀🤪

It’s reminds me of Kevin Bridges when he was on about Trump. It’s like listening to some olld geezer in a boozer, you listen to their drivel, tap them on the shoulder and say enjoy yir night pal  

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by jack D and coke

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s reminds me of Kevin Bridges when he was on about Trump. It’s like listening to some old fud in a boozer, you listen to their drivel, tap them on the shoulder and say enjoy yir night pal  

 

😝

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 hours ago, Jonkel Hoon said:

If there was ever another vote, it wouldn't be yes/no. More likely separate/remain or something similar

Absolutely, Jonkel.

Yes/No was ruled out for the Brexit vote due to it being loaded in favour of "Yes".

Thinking back, DC was a mug conceding that question to Salmond. 

"Should Scotland be an independent country?"  That was never a competent question to put to the public in a national referendum. What did it actually mean?

It was more like a discussion point for an undergraduate's dissertation. 

It was deliberately designed to fool sections of the public into thinking they were voting for an abstract concept, an idea, a theoretical proposition. 

 

Do you want Scotland to leave the UK or remain in the UK?.

Far more likely to be the choice put to the people in any future referendum. 

If we've learned anything from history, then it would require ratification in a second vote, after the negotiated terms were known. The SNP rattle on about democracy so presumably they would approve. A "People's Vote" they may even fondly refer to it as.

 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Absolutely, Jonkel.

Yes/No was ruled out for the Brexit vote due to it being loaded in favour of "Yes".

Thinking back, DC was a mug conceding that question to Salmond. 

"Should Scotland be an independent country?"  That was never a competent question to put to the public in a national referendum. What did it actually mean?

It was more like a discussion point for an undergraduate's dissertation. 

It was deliberately designed to fool sections of the public into thinking they were voting for an abstract concept, an idea, a theoretical proposition. 

 

Do you want Scotland to leave the UK or remain in the UK?.

Far more likely to be the choice put to the people in any future referendum. 

If we've learned anything from history, then it would require ratification in a second vote, after the negotiated terms were known. The SNP rattle on about democracy so presumably they would approve. A "People's Vote" they may even fondly refer to it as.

 

 

 jesus wept, what absolute ****ing crap, no one's as stupid as you think Scotland is

[Taffin]

37 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Absolutely, Jonkel.

Yes/No was ruled out for the Brexit vote due to it being loaded in favour of "Yes".

Thinking back, DC was a mug conceding that question to Salmond. 

"Should Scotland be an independent country?"  That was never a competent question to put to the public in a national referendum. What did it actually mean?

It was more like a discussion point for an undergraduate's dissertation. 

It was deliberately designed to fool sections of the public into thinking they were voting for an abstract concept, an idea, a theoretical proposition. 

 

Do you want Scotland to leave the UK or remain in the UK?.

Far more likely to be the choice put to the people in any future referendum. 

If we've learned anything from history, then it would require ratification in a second vote, after the negotiated terms were known. The SNP rattle on about democracy so presumably they would approve. A "People's Vote" they may even fondly refer to it as.

 

 

Given a state had never left the EU what was the Brexit vote of 'leave' if not a vote for an abstract concept, an idea, a theoretical proposition?

 

The only side of the vote who came close to calling what Brexit would actually look like were the Remain campaigners. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Taffin

[CF11JamTart]

16 hours ago, Auldbenches said:

You are spot on regarding the quality of MSPs.  

I know of one counsellor uo my way who thought he was only there to make uo the numbers when the snp swept to power in 2011.  He didn't want it but had no choice.  

I do think Holyrood has had an impact on the quality of local Councillors that we have now.

Those MSPs that were barely any good as councillors have been replaced by people who wouldn't have got near local office.

 

Just to add that this is evident in Scottish government ministers being given various portfolios as the quality wasn't there. 

 

 

Presumably, in an independent Scotland, Scottish MPs at Westminster would be looking for a new jobs.

 

Whether that would improve the quality of the political cadre is another question. 

 

Having said that, Joanna Cherry would be an asset to any parliament. But she seems to think that her SNP days are numbered.

[Auldbenches]

37 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

Presumably, in an independent Scotland, Scottish MPs at Westminster would be looking for a new jobs.

 

Whether that would improve the quality of the political cadre is another question. 

 

Having said that, Joanna Cherry would be an asset to any parliament. But she seems to think that her SNP days are numbered.

Hadn't thought about the Westminster ones coming up to Holyrood.  

Even then some wil think the standard won't be good enough  

Though I'm dying to see the good Westminster politicians that are any better.

[Enzo Chiefo]

57 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Given a state had never left the EU what was the Brexit vote of 'leave' if not a vote for an abstract concept, an idea, a theoretical proposition?

 

The only side of the vote who came close to calling what Brexit would actually look like were the Remain campaigners. 

The question was clear cut, Taffin. "Do you want the UK to leave or remain?". Easy. The Scottish one was airy fairy. "Should" implies "in an ideal world of milk and honey"  rather than the definitive "Do you want?"

We were going in different directions to the EU anyway so if not 5 years ago, it would have happened at some point.

Nobody really knew what was going to happen and, yes, the red bus was a bit like the SNP White Paper; misleading.  But we were a massive net contributor and we will be saving billions in contributions.  

The economic growth forecasts and prospects for the UK are excellent though  - the Greens will love that 😄 - so we will overcome the current issues, as much to do with Covid as Brexit.

[CF11JamTart]

28 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Hadn't thought about the Westminster ones coming up to Holyrood.  

Even then some wil think the standard won't be good enough  

Though I'm dying to see the good Westminster politicians that are any better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the Scottish MPs at Westminster being worse than any of the others. 

 

But I do feel hugely dispirited by the calibre of politicians across UK. Including down here in the Senedd. 

 

Maybe the whole thing needs the massive boot up the arse that Scottish / Welsh independence would bring (and chuck in a united Ireland for good measure). 

[Mars plastic]

A sparse crowd of about 100 at the queens hall last night to listen to indy debate from separatist luminaries like Colin Fox and mortgage advisor, Michelle Thompson. 
 

That’s a grand total of about 500 freedom fighters at the Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh, ahem, rallies. Snigger. 

[Ked]

4 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

A sparse crowd of about 100 at the queens hall last night to listen to indy debate from separatist luminaries like Colin Fox and mortgage advisor, Michelle Thompson. 
 

That’s a grand total of about 500 freedom fighters at the Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh, ahem, rallies. Snigger. 

No need for a jag passport then.

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, CF11JamTart said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the Scottish MPs at Westminster being worse than any of the others. 

 

But I do feel hugely dispirited by the calibre of politicians across UK. Including down here in the Senedd. 

 

Maybe the whole thing needs the massive boot up the arse that Scottish / Welsh independence would bring (and chuck in a united Ireland for good measure). 

To me the problem is all down  to party politics. 

Start representing the votes rather than the party and we'll get better politicians.

Look at the greens voting against cheaper energy last night.

Get teachers only being able to be education secretary and ex health workers running the health dept

Sine might say that fresh eyes see things differently, but you can't have expertise if someone hasn't worked in tbe field. 

It definitely needs a shake up.

Loom at prime minister's questions. 

It's nothing but an Eton common room debating chamber.

They should realise that they have been elected into an office job rather than into office.  If you know what I mean.

Electronic democracy should be playing a bigger role nowadays. 

Not everything, but I'm sure there is plenty of things that could be opened up to the public to vote on this way. 

 

 

[Ked]

6 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the Scottish MPs at Westminster being worse than any of the others. 

 

But I do feel hugely dispirited by the calibre of politicians across UK. Including down here in the Senedd. 

 

Maybe the whole thing needs the massive boot up the arse that Scottish / Welsh independence would bring (and chuck in a united Ireland for good measure). 

😂

And chuck in a united Ireland.

For good measure😂

 

No offence just made me laugh

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

😂

And chuck in a united Ireland.

For good measure😂

 

No offence just made me laugh

A United ireland gives me the fear. The loyalists would like move here in large numbers if unified. 
Keep the clowns over there thanks👍🏼😄

[Auldbenches]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

A United ireland gives me the fear. The loyalists would like move here in large numbers if unified. 
Keep the clowns over there thanks👍🏼😄

Please do not build that tunnel incase this happens.  

 

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Please do not build that tunnel incase this happens.  

 

Defo mate.
The tunnel though  actual adults believed that from BJ🤡🤡

[CF11JamTart]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

A United ireland gives me the fear. The loyalists would like move here in large numbers if unified. 
Keep the clowns over there thanks👍🏼😄

I'm conscious that it's probably for a different thread, but I feel we're closer to a united Ireland than any point in my life (I'm 49). And primarily because of  Brexit.

 

Those bold Brexit people managed to ignore the fact that the UK isn't ENTIRELY a self-contained island and does in fact have a land border with rest of EU.

 

It depends on how strongly the middle-ground unionist in N.I. feel about GB, and all the border complexities. Or if they are happier being in EU as part of Ireland.

 

[Auldbenches]

7 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Defo mate.
The tunnel though  actual adults believed that from BJ🤡🤡

If it did get built the opening ceremony would be a huge orange walk.  

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

If it did get built the opening ceremony would be a huge orange walk.  

I watched some of them the other day it’s like the Walking Dead man, the village of the damned  

Everybody all lumps and limping and boiled ham pusses  

[jack D and coke]

22 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

I'm conscious that it's probably for a different thread, but I feel we're closer to a united Ireland than any point in my life (I'm 49). And primarily because of  Brexit.

 

Those bold Brexit people managed to ignore the fact that the UK isn't ENTIRELY a self-contained island and does in fact have a land border with rest of EU.

 

It depends on how strongly the middle-ground unionist in N.I. feel about GB, and all the border complexities. Or if they are happier being in EU as part of Ireland.

 

Demographics tell us it’s a matter of time. 
I fear loads of them, maybe all of them would come to Scotland in that scenario. 
Imagine them doing all that bonfire shite over here on the 12th  

[XB52]

16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Demographics tell us it’s a matter of time. 
I fear loads of them, maybe all of them would come to Scotland in that scenario. 
Imagine them doing all that bonfire shite over here on the 12th  

Hopefully by that time we will be independent and they will bypass Scotland and just plague England instead. 

[CF11JamTart]

13 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Hopefully by that time we will be independent and they will bypass Scotland and just plague England instead. 

Probably wishful thinking. 

 

The more "traditional" elements of the Protestant community wouldn't necessarily find much in England for them to relate to.

 

Not much in the line of Marching Season there. 

 

The numbers 1 6 9 0 don't mean much to your average English person. 

 

(and when I moved from Glasgow to Bristol, it was a really really refreshing change). 

[Auldbenches]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I watched some of them the other day it’s like the Walking Dead man, the village of the damned  

Everybody all lumps and limping and boiled ham pusses  

There's a brilliant 3 part thing on YouTube I think called fans, flutes and something else.  It's brilliantly funny.

It shows them getting ready and travelling to a walk.  

Theres even a womens only bus tfst is comedy gold.

I know from my area got into it and everyone an east coast rangers fan.

Upstanding citizens..?  Aye right. 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

A United ireland gives me the fear. The loyalists would like move here in large numbers if unified. 
Keep the clowns over there thanks👍🏼😄

[JudyJudyJudy]

Breaking news **** it’s no ones business regarding A United Ireland apart from the Irish . Can’t understand why Scots wants to get their tuppence worth into that ! 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Breaking news **** it’s no ones business regarding A United Ireland apart from the Irish . Can’t understand why Scots wants to get their tuppence worth into that ! 

Aye whats went on ireland for the last 100 years hasn’t affected anyone over here pal yir right. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Breaking news **** it’s no ones business regarding A United Ireland apart from the Irish . Can’t understand why Scots wants to get their tuppence worth into that ! 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Aye whats went on ireland for the last 100 years hasn’t affected anyone over here pal yir right. 

Only cause we got our nose into in as per usual !