The rise and fall of The SNP.

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I'm saying if they take Indy Ref off the table it would be interesting to see what the results are

 

They might gain some votes but would also lose some to Albaman and his street fighters. 

[Boris]

Just now, Des Lynam said:

Come on Boris you can’t have a situation where the Independence topic is brought up for argument sake every ten years. The economic uncertainty would be a problem. 

 

Once independent though, would there really be much of a call for union with rUK?

 

On a side note, Independence is, as I see it, the nuclear option to rid ourselves of the shambles that is the UK political system.

For me, it's not about "more powers" for Holyrood.  The Westminster system needs a root and branch redesign.

 

PR for Westminster elections.  Elected Second Chamber, weighted equally between the four nations. (Like the senate in the USA where each state is equally represented).

 

The UK is not a nation of equals.  One nation dominates three others, with no care for consequences.

 

Reform and modernise the political system and you may just save the Union.  Fat chance the Tories would want that, or Labour for that matter who suffer delusions of grandeur.

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Same token, let the Tories put it on their manifesto!

 

I want an election based purely on electing a government for Scotland not the constitution of the UK.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I want an election based purely on electing a government for Scotland not the constitution of the UK.

 

Once independent you'll get your wish!

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

Once independent you'll get your wish!

 

Already got the system in place just need the right people to run it.

[Des Lynam]

Just now, Boris said:

 

Once independent though, would there really be much of a call for union with rUK?

 

On a side note, Independence is, as I see it, the nuclear option to rid ourselves of the shambles that is the UK political system.

For me, it's not about "more powers" for Holyrood.  The Westminster system needs a root and branch redesign.

 

PR for Westminster elections.  Elected Second Chamber, weighted equally between the four nations. (Like the senate in the USA where each state is equally represented).

 

The UK is not a nation of equals.  One nation dominates three others, with no care for consequences.

 

Reform and modernise the political system and you may just save the Union.  Fat chance the Tories would want that, or Labour for that matter who suffer delusions of grandeur.

 

 

I couldn’t agree more. I’m now of the opinion I’d take any post independence hardship in order to cleanse my soul from the Westminster madness. 
 

The idea of an elected second chamber is certainly interesting and would definitely be  more democratic. 
 

 

[SectionDJambo]

13 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Aah, wee Forbes, Secretary for Finance who studied history at uni. 

I've little interest in politics, mainly because I haven't got time for people who can't tell the truth as a habit.  I still always vote, but that's because I feel it's the right thing to do given the struggle that others have made to be entitled to do so.

So I've never heard of this Forbes chap, but I think to dismiss him because he studied history is flawed. In my opinion, the main chance of a person being a capable politician would be if he/she studied history. Politicians need to learn from the mistakes that their predecessors have made in the past, both in Westminster and Holyrood.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Once independent though, would there really be much of a call for union with rUK?

 

On a side note, Independence is, as I see it, the nuclear option to rid ourselves of the shambles that is the UK political system.

For me, it's not about "more powers" for Holyrood.  The Westminster system needs a root and branch redesign.

 

PR for Westminster elections.  Elected Second Chamber, weighted equally between the four nations. (Like the senate in the USA where each state is equally represented).

 

The UK is not a nation of equals.  One nation dominates three others, with no care for consequences.

 

Reform and modernise the political system and you may just save the Union.  Fat chance the Tories would want that, or Labour for that matter who suffer delusions of grandeur.

 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

28 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Once independent though, would there really be much of a call for union with rUK?

 

On a side note, Independence is, as I see it, the nuclear option to rid ourselves of the shambles that is the UK political system.

For me, it's not about "more powers" for Holyrood.  The Westminster system needs a root and branch redesign.

 

PR for Westminster elections.  Elected Second Chamber, weighted equally between the four nations. (Like the senate in the USA where each state is equally represented).

 

The UK is not a nation of equals.  One nation dominates three others, with no care for consequences.

 

Reform and modernise the political system and you may just save the Union.  Fat chance the Tories would want that, or Labour for that matter who suffer delusions of grandeur.

 

 

Ah good to see you back Boris. Always good to read your posts pal👍🏼bringing some sense to the loony type ramblings of some posters on theses threads. 
 

[Malinga the Swinga]

24 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

I couldn’t agree more. I’m now of the opinion I’d take any post independence hardship in order to cleanse my soul from the Westminster madness. 

That's good of you. What about the hardship caused to future generations? 

A detailed plan is required, not an independence plea to the heart. 

Replacing one shit show with another shit show isn't answer. 

[Mars plastic]

28 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I've little interest in politics, mainly because I haven't got time for people who can't tell the truth as a habit.  I still always vote, but that's because I feel it's the right thing to do given the struggle that others have made to be entitled to do so.

So I've never heard of this Forbes chap, but I think to dismiss him because he studied history is flawed. In my opinion, the main chance of a person being a capable politician would be if he/she studied history. Politicians need to learn from the mistakes that their predecessors have made in the past, both in Westminster and Holyrood.

I’d much prefer our Secretary for Finance to have relevant qualifications for the job. You don’t send a plumber to wire up a distribution board after all. 
 

Also, Wee Forbsey is a she. 

[JackLadd]

32 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

I couldn’t agree more. I’m now of the opinion I’d take any post independence hardship in order to cleanse my soul from the Westminster madness. 
 

 

 

 

Ludicrous opinion.

[Malinga the Swinga]

39 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Once independent though, would there really be much of a call for union with rUK?

 

On a side note, Independence is, as I see it, the nuclear option to rid ourselves of the shambles that is the UK political system.

For me, it's not about "more powers" for Holyrood.  The Westminster system needs a root and branch redesign.

 

PR for Westminster elections.  Elected Second Chamber, weighted equally between the four nations. (Like the senate in the USA where each state is equally represented).

 

The UK is not a nation of equals.  One nation dominates three others, with no care for consequences.

 

Reform and modernise the political system and you may just save the Union.  Fat chance the Tories would want that, or Labour for that matter who suffer delusions of grandeur.

Would make it easier for everyone if they would agree to this, but they won't. 

All the parties, and I mean all of them, are in it for themselves. 

Not one of them would place country before party or country before their own benefit. 

A generation of professional politicians has become the norm. No experience of real life, no experience of real life issues, just politicians who lie without thinking, who have no inner steel or integrity and who just can't be trusted. 

[Mars plastic]

35 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

I couldn’t agree more. I’m now of the opinion I’d take any post independence hardship in order to cleanse my soul from the Westminster madness. 

 

 

Deary me. Do you sit down to pee as well, Desmond?

[JackLadd]

3 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

I’d much prefer our Secretary for Finance to have relevant qualifications for the job. You don’t send a plumber to wire up a distribution board after all. 
 

Also, Wee Forbsey is a she. 

 

She's a wee daft lassie from the ministry of funny walks. We can trust her to run the treasury of an iScotland per the dafties though. As long as your mortgage is at least 3/4's paid you might keep your property. 

[Mars plastic]

58 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

You'd never see Westminster appointing a chancellor who studied history of course😀

But, but.......WHIT ABOOT WESSSSSSSSSSTMINSTERRRRRRRRRR?!!!

[Boris]

1 minute ago, JackLadd said:

 

She's a wee daft lassie from the ministry of funny walks. We can trust her to run the treasury of an iScotland per the dafties though. As long as your mortgage is at least 3/4's paid you might keep your property. 

Who is to say she would be Minister of Finance in an Independent Scotland?

 

You do know there would be general elections and stuff?

[Dirty Deeds]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

With the country split down the middle it would not be put to bed regardless of the results. And should Yes win then No voters have every right to demand another.

They would have to win a parliamentary election first.

[Mars plastic]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

She's a wee daft lassie from the ministry of funny walks. We can trust her to run the treasury of an iScotland per the dafties though. As long as your mortgage is at least 3/4's paid you might keep your property. 

Just like her boss, who I think is going to keel over on her white stilettos every time I see waddling into the Shortbread Senate chamber.

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Just like her boss, who I think is going to keel over on her white stilettos every time I see waddling into the Shortbread Senate chamber.

 

[Des Lynam]

21 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

That's good of you. What about the hardship caused to future generations? 

A detailed plan is required, not an independence plea to the heart. 

Replacing one shit show with another shit show isn't answer. 

Brexit? 

[JackLadd]

Just now, Boris said:

Who is to say she would be Minister of Finance in an Independent Scotland?

 

You do know there would be general elections and stuff?

 

I think you're in dreamland regards that. It will take a whole parliament just to agree the terms of separation and maybe longer which means no elections for an iScotland. I would expect the other parties to remain pro Union in the meantime, they cannot abandon the sane half of the country just because Nicola and her school wains won a ref by a fraction. 

[SectionDJambo]

21 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

I’d much prefer our Secretary for Finance to have relevant qualifications for the job. You don’t send a plumber to wire up a distribution board after all. 
 

Also, Wee Forbsey is a she. 

Well there you go. 😉

I didn’t even know the gender of our finance secretary. 
Of course some financial training would be advantageous, but history has taught us many things that seem to get forgotten.

Financial training at schools would also be advantageous. How many young people leave school with little or no knowledge of the pitfalls of modern life economics? How many end up in debt because of it?

Something for the education man or woman to think about?

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, SectionDJambo said:

Well there you go. 😉

I didn’t even know the gender of our finance secretary. 
Of course some financial training would be advantageous, but history has taught us many things that seem to get forgotten.

Financial training at schools would also be advantageous. How many young people leave school with little or no knowledge of the pitfalls of modern life economics? How many end up in debt because of it?

Something for the education man or woman to think about?

Think you're onto something here

[Mars plastic]

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

I think you're in dreamland regards that. It will take a whole parliament just to agree the terms of separation and maybe longer which means no elections for an iScotland. I would expect the other parties to remain pro Union in the meantime, they cannot abandon the sane half of the country just because Nicola and her school wains won a ref by a fraction. 

I can get right behind this high quality postage.

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

I can get right behind this high quality postage.

 

👍

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

I think you're in dreamland regards that. It will take a whole parliament just to agree the terms of separation and maybe longer which means no elections for an iScotland. I would expect the other parties to remain pro Union in the meantime, they cannot abandon the sane half of the country just because Nicola and her school wains won a ref by a fraction. 

 

If they have won a ref, that means that the "sane" are less than half...

 

With arithmetic like that you could end up Finance Minister!

[SectionDJambo]

4 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

I think you're in dreamland regards that. It will take a whole parliament just to agree the terms of separation and maybe longer which means no elections for an iScotland. I would expect the other parties to remain pro Union in the meantime, they cannot abandon the sane half of the country just because Nicola and her school wains won a ref by a fraction. 

We left the EU because of a very small pro Brexit vote. No second chance to vote on that one.

If Scotland got independence by the same margin what would be so different? 
The eventual crux here is going to be the arguments put forward by both sides as to the merits or pitfalls of independence. For the SNP a chance to win independence, and for the Unionists, a chance to put an end to it for a considerable time. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Once independent though, would there really be much of a call for union with rUK?

 

On a side note, Independence is, as I see it, the nuclear option to rid ourselves of the shambles that is the UK political system.

For me, it's not about "more powers" for Holyrood.  The Westminster system needs a root and branch redesign.

 

PR for Westminster elections.  Elected Second Chamber, weighted equally between the four nations. (Like the senate in the USA where each state is equally represented).

 

The UK is not a nation of equals.  One nation dominates three others, with no care for consequences.

 

Reform and modernise the political system and you may just save the Union.  Fat chance the Tories would want that, or Labour for that matter who suffer delusions of grandeur.

 

 

Excellent post.

[Cade]

The UK had a chance to reform to a modern, democratic, federal nation between the years of 1997 and 2014.

 

Instead, it chose to turn down changes to elections (the 2011 AV referendum that nobody remembers), to ignore "The Vow", to relegate Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish MPs to second class members of Westminster, is attempting to overturn devolved parliamentary bills, is point-blank refusing to allow any legal method of leaving the Union, to claw back devolved powers under the Internal Market Bill, all other manner of centralising of power shitehousery and to leave the European Union without any kind of forward planning or trade deal.

 

The chance is gone.

England, and by extension the rest of the UK, is doomed to a quasi-medieval feudal system for the foreseeable future.

 

We're best off out of that shite.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, XB52 said:

SNP would get about 90% of the seats. 

100% of stats on here are made up

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

That's good of you. What about the hardship caused to future generations? 

A detailed plan is required, not an independence plea to the heart. 

Replacing one shit show with another shit show isn't answer. 

 

I'd rather have our own than the shit show run by the entitled money-grubbing old Etonian chumocracy

[dobmisterdobster]

28 minutes ago, Cade said:

The UK had a chance to reform to a modern, democratic, federal nation between the years of 1997 and 2014.

 

Instead, it chose to turn down changes to elections (the 2011 AV referendum that nobody remembers), to ignore "The Vow", to relegate Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish MPs to second class members of Westminster, is attempting to overturn devolved parliamentary bills, is point-blank refusing to allow any legal method of leaving the Union, to claw back devolved powers under the Internal Market Bill, all other manner of centralising of power shitehousery and to leave the European Union without any kind of forward planning or trade deal.

 

The chance is gone.

England, and by extension the rest of the UK, is doomed to a quasi-medieval feudal system for the foreseeable future.

 

We're best off out of that shite.

 

Fact check time. A lot of misinformation here.

 

Quote

to relegate Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish MPs to second class members of Westminster

 

English MPs can't vote on Scottish only laws. Why should the reverse be allowed?

 

Quote

is attempting to overturn devolved parliamentary bills

 

Because it encroaches on reserved powers and is therefore unconstitutional.

 

Quote

to claw back devolved powers under the Internal Market Bill

 

This bill relates to powers previously held by the EU. None of these powers have ever been held at Holyrood.

[XB52]

9 minutes ago, Candy said:

100% of stats on here are made up

Why ask a question if you don't want an answer? In fairness I went back to the 2016 results and SNP got 81% of the seats in the constituency first past the post results 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Why ask a question if you don't want an answer? In fairness I went back to the 2016 results and SNP got 81% of the seats in the constituency first past the post results 

I never asked a question 🤣

 

If I was asking though, I'd be Interested to know what the total vote percentage  was per party in Scotland not via constituency, just votes cast. That would be a fair outcome and would without  doubt be an snp majority, although I suspect not 90%

 

No gaming the system, no 2nd vote, just pure and simple, one vote per eligible voter

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Candy

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Des Lynam said:

Brexit? 

I agree, Brexit was a disaster, in the way it was brought about, the way it was implemented and the way it has ended up. 

That's what I would want to avoid. Just because it happened, doesn't mean we should stand by and watch another fiasco unfold. 

It's called learning from experience. 

[Des Lynam]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I agree, Brexit was a disaster, in the way it was brought about, the way it was implemented and the way it has ended up. 

That's what I would want to avoid. Just because it happened, doesn't mean we should stand by and watch another fiasco unfold. 

It's called learning from experience. 

I understand that and I’m not advocating years of demise. My point was emotional and you’re right we need a proper economic plan for Independence. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

18 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

I'd rather have our own than the shit show run by the entitled money-grubbing old Etonian chumocracy

I'd rather have a well planned, well thought out parliament, inhabited by trustworthy, reputable and qualified people. 

As it stands, we would be replacing old Etonian chumocracy with a wee angry weejie and her mates from the West. 

That doesn't appeal to me. 

[Tazio]

Damn. Martin Compston will be spending even more time dodging the taxman now. In better news certain posters might bump into him so they can interrogate him about his tax status. 

 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I'd rather have a well planned, well thought out parliament, inhabited by trustworthy, reputable and qualified people. 

As it stands, we would be replacing old Etonian chumocracy with a wee angry weejie and her mates from the West. 

That doesn't appeal to me. 

 

That comment tells me everything: old angry Labour/Tory (who can tell the difference these days) stereotype 

[manaliveits105]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I'd rather have a well planned, well thought out parliament, inhabited by trustworthy, reputable and qualified people. 

As it stands, we would be replacing old Etonian chumocracy with a wee angry weejie and her mates from the West. 

That doesn't appeal to me. 

        

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

        

How do you plan to get this in England and Scotland. Where are these noble people?

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Mars plastic said:

I’d much prefer our Secretary for Finance to have relevant qualifications for the job. You don’t send a plumber to wire up a distribution board after all. 
 

Also, Wee Forbsey is a she. 

 

To be fair I think she spent 6 months as a trainee accountant in one of the big four firms. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Candy said:

Time flies. Thank you for your service to this fine establishment 

 

However, given your background, is it OK to call other posters a "bullshitter"? 

 

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I haven't been involved for over six years.  What an oddball thing to post.

 

Hardly oddball.  Forums need moderators to keep order and run successfully.  People appreciate that. JKB is head and shoulders above other fans forums from the little I've seen of the others.

 

I notice you didn't answer my 2nd point though.   In your moderator days would you have deemed calling someone a "bullshitter" a breach of rule 1?

 

1. Always treat fellow members with respect and courtesy. Abuse is not permitted.

[Don Dan]

15 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

To be fair I think she spent 6 months as a trainee accountant in one of the big four firms. 

She spent 2 years training in accountancy, worked for Barkleys and is a former chartered accountant along with her other qualifications. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Boy Daniel

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, Candy said:

 

Hardly oddball.  Forums need moderators to keep order and run successfully.  People appreciate that. JKB is head and shoulders above other fans forums from the little I've seen of the others.

 

I notice you didn't answer my 2nd point though.   In your moderator days would you have deemed calling someone a "bullshitter" a breach of rule 1?

 

1. Always treat fellow members with respect and courtesy. Abuse is not permitted.

 

I had no idea you were so precious

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I had no idea you were so precious

I'm not.

 

It wasn't directed at me and I certainly not used the report function.  

 

I just find it curious.

[scott herbertson]

20 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

Ardent and respected nationalist Ian Mcwhirter saying in the Herald today that there will not be another referendum because none of the major parties want one. That includes the SNP.

 

 

He's very anti SNP at the moment. He was quite bizarre on that BBC programme with Martin Geisler last week - agitated and irascible. 

[Gizmo]

7 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

He's very anti SNP at the moment. He was quite bizarre on that BBC programme with Martin Geisler last week - agitated and irascible. 

Will be interesting to see the SNP's position if they miss a majority but there's a clear indy majority. 

Speculation that Westminster could use that to reject calls for a referendum.

[Malinga the Swinga]

11 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

He's very anti SNP at the moment. He was quite bizarre on that BBC programme with Martin Geisler last week - agitated and irascible. 

Had to look up 'irascible'.