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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

What the feck is this ‘too many words’ nonsense all about?

 

He rants nonsense.  I debunk.  He doesn't have the analytical skills to deal with what I present.  He deflects.  He doesn't cope well with people not agreeing with him.

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I've only just realised that the SNP just scored their best ever performance in the constituency vote.  Impressive.

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1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:


It’s all a bit weird but I’m verging on the feeling sorry for him stage. 
 

Maybe a pat on the head or a rub of the shoulder whilst mouthing ‘I know’ would be a comfort. 

 

Perhaps.   Perhaps not.

 

That constituency vote haul, though.  Impressive or what?

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Pasquale for King
33 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Anyway, back to the analysis.

 

@Zlatanablethe scared is obsessed with the pretence that the SNP has "a fall".

 

The SNP should be falling.  They've been in government for years, and every other government party these days automatically gets into trouble at the polls.  But the SNP?  No.

 

The SNP should be falling.  They walked themselves into an embarrassing trap with a former leader.  For anyone else that would have cost the governing party votes.  But the SNP?  No.

 

The SNP should be falling.  Their opponents abandoned all pretence at political principle to vote tactically to keep them out.  Anywhere else that would have cost seats.  But the SNP?  No.

 

And here we are.  The SNP swam against the currents, and returned from an election with more seats than they had going into it.

 

What happens next time?  What happens when there's no manufactured "Alba" worries sniping at the SNP?  What happens when those who oppose them run out of people willing to sell their votes in the name of tactical voting?

 

The SNP haven't fallen, when all logic says they should have fallen.  And that is because of one policy, and one policy only.  That should be a sobering and a chilling thought for anyone who opposes that policy.

Stop it with all those words will you 😂😜

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1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:


It’s an absolutely outstanding result for an incumbent government of 14 years that has dealt with a pandemic and the pesky fruit flies lodging votes of no confidence every few days whilst contributing absolutely **** all in terms of trying to help the country. 

 

I happen to be linked professionally to several experts in the field of politics and political science.  They regard the SNP's performance as remarkable from both a practical and an academic point of view.  It is unique or almost unique in the democratic world, and they know that there is one overriding reason for it.  A sobering and chilling thought for some in Scotland.

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4 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

It is about the Rise and me me me me me waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh of the SNP.

 

I know, I know.  There, there, there.  <<pats head, gives manly rub on shoulder>>

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1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

None of this changes the issue though. 

 

The issue is that you dearly wish the SNP was on a fall.  It isn't.  I've explained why, and you've bowed out and surrendered the point to me.  If wishes were changes there'd be no goodbyes, but your wishes aren't changes.  You're like a small child in a darkening room hoping that if you squeeze your eyelids really tight and hide under the duvet the bogeyman of independence won't find you.  But that isn't how things work.  If the bogeyman of independence wants to find you, it'll find you.

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1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

Hi @Ulysses

This thread is called 'the rise and fall of The SNP'

 

 

Yeah.

 

What fall?

 

The issue is that you dearly wish the SNP was on a fall.  It isn't.  I've explained why, and you've bowed out and surrendered the point to me.  If wishes were changes there'd be no goodbyes, but your wishes aren't changes.  You're like a small child in a darkening room hoping that if you squeeze your eyelids really tight and hide under the duvet the bogeyman of independence won't find you.  But that isn't how things work.  If the bogeyman of independence wants to find you, it'll find you.

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1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

Thank you for your many contributions to this thread. 

 

You know you're on a loser with your "fall" pretence.  But you keep sniping away, like somebody saying "and another thing" half an hour after admitting he's lost the argument.

Edited by Ulysses
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Admins, given the historically high vote gained by the SNP in this election, could we get a name change for the thread?  A title like "How come the SNP keeps defying the laws of political gravity?" could be good, or something along those lines.

 

:thumbsup:

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Unknown user
5 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

You know you're on a loser with your "fall" pretence.  But you keep sniping away, like somebody saying "and another thing" half an hour after admitting he's lost the argument.

He's full of shit, the dyslexic that never makes a spelling mistake.

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I sincerely hope the SNP fall continues on the same trajectory, which bizarrely appears to be upwards.  Let's face it, if Scotland's electoral system was run on the same basis as the UK, i.e. first past the post, SNP would have had an overwhelming majority in the last 3 elections.  It's only the PR element of the list vote that allows the wee parties to garner more seats.  Westminster has long rejected the idea of introducing any form of PR into their voting system, but thought it was perfectly acceptable for the devolved parliaments.  I wonder why!

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My commiserations to Zlatanable at this very difficult time. If there was ever a thread where the OP ended up with egg on their face and multiple facepalms, this is it. 

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7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Hello

It's me, the OP of this thread. 

 

The results of the 2021 Holyrood elections haven't changed the point of this thread at all. 

 

The same problems exist. 

😁😁😁😁. If the mods had any compassion they would quietly close this thread to save you more embarrassment, but hopefully they don't 

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6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

What analysis? 

 

I am disappointed in you @Ulysses. Quit treating me like this. 

See if you really do have autism, which I very much doubt, maybe you shouldn't keep playing the sympathy card and stop posting shite

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John Findlay
8 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Hello

It's me, the OP of this thread. 

 

The results of the 2021 Holyrood elections haven't changed the point of this thread at all. 

 

The same problems exist. 

Can you tell me where your padded cell is located?

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4 hours ago, RobNox said:

I sincerely hope the SNP fall continues on the same trajectory, which bizarrely appears to be upwards.  Let's face it, if Scotland's electoral system was run on the same basis as the UK, i.e. first past the post, SNP would have had an overwhelming majority in the last 3 elections.  It's only the PR element of the list vote that allows the wee parties to garner more seats.  Westminster has long rejected the idea of introducing any form of PR into their voting system, but thought it was perfectly acceptable for the devolved parliaments.  I wonder why!

 

As part of the coalition deal Westminster ran a referendum on introduction of the Alternative Vote system in 2011, it was rejected by 64% to 36% in Scotland.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum#:~:text=The decision by the people,in favor of the proposal.

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4 hours ago, RobNox said:

I sincerely hope the SNP fall continues on the same trajectory, which bizarrely appears to be upwards.  Let's face it, if Scotland's electoral system was run on the same basis as the UK, i.e. first past the post, SNP would have had an overwhelming majority in the last 3 elections.  It's only the PR element of the list vote that allows the wee parties to garner more seats.  Westminster has long rejected the idea of introducing any form of PR into their voting system, but thought it was perfectly acceptable for the devolved parliaments.  I wonder why!


Darn SNP always falling on the upward escalator. :lol: 

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On 22/02/2020 at 00:03, Zlatanable said:

Back in 2007, it was a very different picture. 

The Holyrood result in 2011 broke the system and allowed a minority view to overshadow the people of Scotland ever since.

 

Since then,  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have both failed in their only objective. 

The cost of pursuing an 'the end justifies the means' campaign is returning home to roost. 

And that is before any mention of sexual/financial indiscretions, that have been reported so far.

 

Now, in 2020, it seems like The SNP are finished. 

 

You are doing the too many words thing again. 

 

 

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AlimOzturk
48 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Certainly no fall, but no rise either unless 1 extra seat is considered significant. Thread should be changed to ‘the status quo of the SNP’.

 


Pretty difficult to win a majority under the current proportional representation system in place. It is designed to stop a majority happening. 
 

So the amount of seats the SNP win almost all the time is significant. More significant is the amount of Indy supporting which far outweighs the unionist. 

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Unknown user
4 minutes ago, Candy said:

Thread title should be changed to "lets pile on the OP"

 

Nasty 

Not much nastiness around mate, I think you're projecting. Well, apart from the OP telling people to **** themselves of course.

 

Still, nice to see your cage is rattled, did you get the result you wanted as well aye?

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Just now, Smithee said:

Not much nastiness around mate, I think you're projecting. Well, apart from the OP telling people to **** themselves of course.

 

Still, nice to see your cage is rattled, did you get the result you wanted as well aye?

If my cage was rattled (which it's not), why would that be nice to see?

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10 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

The SNP should be falling.  They've been in government for years, and every other government party these days automatically gets into trouble at the polls.  But the SNP?  No.

 

The SNP should be falling.  They walked themselves into an embarrassing trap with a former leader.  For anyone else that would have cost the governing party votes.  But the SNP?  No.

 

The SNP should be falling.  Their opponents abandoned all pretence at political principle to vote tactically to keep them out.  Anywhere else that would have cost seats.  But the SNP?  No.

 

And here we are.  The SNP swam against the currents, and returned from an election with more seats than they had going into it.

 

What happens next time?  What happens when there's no manufactured "Alba" worries sniping at the SNP?  What happens when those who oppose them run out of people willing to sell their votes in the name of tactical voting?

 

The SNP haven't fallen, when all logic says they should have fallen.  And that is because of one policy, and one policy only.  That should be a sobering and a chilling thought for anyone who opposes that policy.

And that one policy is why I reluctantly voted for them.

 

I disagree with almost the entirety of their manifesto, bar one pledge. That was enough for me to put my mark in their box and while I don't regret it I'm raging that I have to vote for them.

 

I see no end and the only logical choice for this country to move on is through independence. 

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Unknown user
2 minutes ago, BudgeUp said:

And that one policy is why I reluctantly voted for them.

 

I disagree with almost the entirety of their manifesto, bar one pledge. That was enough for me to put my mark in their box and while I don't regret it I'm raging that I have to vote for them.

 

I see no end and the only logical choice for this country to move on is through independence. 

Correct, I'm not a fan either but they're a means to an end

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jamboy1982
1 hour ago, weehammy said:

Certainly no fall, but no rise either unless 1 extra seat is considered significant. Thread should be changed to ‘the status quo of the SNP’.

 

Pretty sure that is classed a rise. I extra seat or 10 or 100 is a rise. Unless the meaning of the word rise has changed and no one told me.

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2 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

As part of the coalition deal Westminster ran a referendum on introduction of the Alternative Vote system in 2011, it was rejected by 64% to 36% in Scotland.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum#:~:text=The decision by the people,in favor of the proposal.

That was a damp squib. There was no effort by either side from memory.

 

I think I marked "yes 1 no 2" from memory. 

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Pans Jambo
1 hour ago, weehammy said:

Certainly no fall, but no rise either unless 1 extra seat is considered significant. Thread should be changed to ‘the status quo of the SNP’.

 

Highest number of votes.
Highest number of constituency seats ever. 
Highest vote share ever in a Scottish election. 
 

Ignore the facts if it suits your agenda but the facts still wont go away. 
 

Status Quo my erchie! And even if it was the “Status Quo” is that not still some achievement after 14 years in office? Even with the Labour party voting en-masse for the tories!

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Weakened Offender
31 minutes ago, Candy said:

Thread title should be changed to "lets pile on the OP"

 

Nasty 

 

Oh dear. Someone is upset.. 

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A Boy Named Crow
40 minutes ago, Candy said:

Thread title should be changed to "lets pile on the OP"

 

Nasty 

He loves it 

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indianajones
2 hours ago, Candy said:

Thread title should be changed to "lets pile on the OP"

 

Nasty 

 

Its to be expected really. 

 

Ridiculous thread and title.

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Unknown user
Just now, indianajones said:

 

Its to be expected really. 

 

Ridiculous thread and title.

Not to mention that the OP's been by far the nastiest poster in the last 24 hours

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Unknown user
2 minutes ago, weehammy said:

More people (marginally) voted for unionist rather than independence supporting candidates so you’re completely wrong.

 

 

Cool let's have a vote then

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Spellczech
11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I happen to be linked professionally to several experts in the field of politics and political science.  They regard the SNP's performance as remarkable from both a practical and an academic point of view.  It is unique or almost unique in the democratic world, and they know that there is one overriding reason for it.  A sobering and chilling thought for some in Scotland.

I dunno, I think in a World of personality politics, there are only 2 personalities in UK politics - Sturgeon and Boris. Their success in a World of social media reflects that...

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Spellczech
1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Cool let's have a vote then

We did that less than 8 years ago. The SNP said it was generational at the time. Now unless 7 year olds can procreate, it hasn't been long enough...SNP realise they only have to win it once, so another No vote wouldn't stop them either...It would resolve nothing.

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Unknown user
1 minute ago, weehammy said:

On the basis that half of those who voted want one? So the half who don’t want a vote should just be ignored?

 

On the basis that the subject hasn't gone away and that pro independence parties have the majority in government.

 

I don't expect you to like it, but them's the facts bud

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12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

The SNP should be falling.  They've been in government for years, and every other government party these days automatically gets into trouble at the polls.  But the SNP?  No.

 

The SNP should be falling.  They walked themselves into an embarrassing trap with a former leader.  For anyone else that would have cost the governing party votes.  But the SNP?  No.

 

The SNP should be falling.  Their opponents abandoned all pretence at political principle to vote tactically to keep them out.  Anywhere else that would have cost seats.  But the SNP?  No.

 

And here we are.  The SNP swam against the currents, and returned from an election with more seats than they had going into it.

 

What happens next time?  What happens when there's no manufactured "Alba" worries sniping at the SNP?  What happens when those who oppose them run out of people willing to sell their votes in the name of tactical voting?

 

The SNP haven't fallen, when all logic says they should have fallen.  And that is because of one policy, and one policy only.  That should be a sobering and a chilling thought for anyone who opposes that policy.

 

:spoton:

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Unknown user
4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

We did that less than 8 years ago. The SNP said it was generational at the time. Now unless 7 year olds can procreate, it hasn't been long enough...SNP realise they only have to win it once, so another No vote wouldn't stop them either...It would resolve nothing.

 

Meanwhile Vote No to stay in the EU was one of the central pillars of the unionist campaign. 

 

But it doesn't really matter, the election's been run, pro independence parties are in power, it's happening

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Unknown user
3 minutes ago, weehammy said:

So the 50% trump the er, 50%. No disputing the SNP’s mandate to govern but a referendum is binary so the percentages matter.

You’ll not be getting one anyway so the debate is academic.

 

Do you reckon every labour voter is a unionist?

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4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

We did that less than 8 years ago. The SNP said it was generational at the time. Now unless 7 year olds can procreate, it hasn't been long enough...SNP realise they only have to win it once, so another No vote wouldn't stop them either...It would resolve nothing.

 

True, and I may well have agreed with you until Brexit introduced a significant and material change to the situation of the UK and thereby of its constituent nations, despite the people of Scotland voting against the withdrawal from the EU. We were taken out of the EU against our will and that is enough of a ground change to merit a further decision on whether we should remain or not within the new setup.

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Maple Leaf

With regards to the "Rise and Fall" thing, William Shirer was right but the OP seems to be wrong.

 

The Scottish elections got more media coverage than usual here and the consensus was that the SNP did well, especially for a government that has been in power for so long.

 

Support for Quebec independence ebbs and flows and is currently off the table, and Canadian reporters are impressed that the pro-independence party in Scotland keeps getting re-elected, unlike what happens in Quebec.

 

I doubt if any outside observer would agree that the SNP have fallen.

 

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6 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

With regards to the "Rise and Fall" thing, William Shirer was right but the OP seems to be wrong.

 

The Scottish elections got more media coverage than usual here and the consensus was that the SNP did well, especially for a government that has been in power for so long.

 

Support for Quebec independence ebbs and flows and is currently off the table, and Canadian reporters are impressed that the pro-independence party in Scotland keeps getting re-elected, unlike what happens in Quebec.

 

I doubt if any outside observer would agree that the SNP have fallen.

 

 

The Clarity Act had quite an impact on support for Quebec's Independence, didn't it?

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Maple Leaf
12 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

The Clarity Act had quite an impact on support for Quebec's Independence, didn't it?

Possible among politicians.  The average Canadian, including Quebecers, are generally content with their lot.

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jamboy1982
48 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

We did that less than 8 years ago. The SNP said it was generational at the time. Now unless 7 year olds can procreate, it hasn't been long enough...SNP realise they only have to win it once, so another No vote wouldn't stop them either...It would resolve nothing.

The good Friday agreement states a generation is 7 years. Pretty sure the uk government are involved in that. 

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Unknown user
2 minutes ago, weehammy said:

That old chestnut always gets dragged up. Do you think every SNP voter wants independence? Who can say? But John Curtice reckons that pro and anti independence voters have chosen their sides very definitively now after years of arguing. For all her rhetoric, Sturgeon is well aware of that and if Boris conceded a referendum right now, she’d be taking a monumental risk on the basis of very uncertain data.

Anyway, neither you nor I will have any role in deciding.

 

It's a relevant chestnut.

 

It's very, very likely there are more independence supporters among Labour's voters than unionists among the SNP's

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