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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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coconut doug
11 minutes ago, luckydug said:

If they had dropped the case every chance people would have been accusing NS of a cover up to protect her friend AS. 

The Unionist/Tory press would have been only too happy to run with that line. 

 

What case?

 

There wasn't one but they tried to manufacture one and they failed. Nobody would have known anything if the spad hadn't leaked the story a the Daily Record. A criminal offence not being investigated.

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The Frenchman Returns
6 minutes ago, Candy said:

And, if so, it would have petered out ages ago. It wouldn't have cost over £500k and the enquiry about their conduct would not have been ongoing.

However Murrell and Co only needed one of the 13 charges to stick, one guilty verdict and AS was gone, never to return. All other enquiries over and NS solidifies her power base. 

 

The biggest mystery for me as a neutral is who was behind the strategy, was it the husband, the wife or a collective decision?

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Roxy Hearts
7 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

This is possibly the biggest thing that any Holyrood administration has has to deal with but compare the last 20 years of things that could be classed as scandalous and it's a joke that the whole integrity of Scottish politics is questioned. 

Westminster would be boarded up by now. 

 

I stated earlier that unionists are hypocrites. 

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The Frenchman Returns
8 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

 

 

What actually is it that Salmond has done that is so inappropriate?

 

 

You can keep asking and no one is answering you!

 

Probably because the answer is nothing, he has not been found guilty of a single inappropriate act. He is being vilified based on unfounded allegations.

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JDK2020
34 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

 

You're just sounding like an angry wee tube now. 

 

👍

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Famous 1874
39 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

 

Article from 2 days ago

 

THE odds on Nicola Sturgeon leaving her role as First Minister have been cut for the second time in four days.

The SNP chief is now 6-4 with top bookmaker Coral NOT to be in Scotland's top job by the end of the year.

 

Odds were 2-1 previously

Cheers mate!

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coconut doug
2 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

 

You can keep asking and no one is answering you!

 

Probably because the answer is nothing, he has not been found guilty of a single inappropriate act. He is being vilified based on unfounded allegations.

 

I think you might be right.

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Captain Slog
21 minutes ago, luckydug said:

If they had dropped the case every chance people would have been accusing NS of a cover up to protect her friend AS. 

The Unionist/Tory press would have been only too happy to run with that line. 

I read this just after reading the posts immediately above it, and wondered what @Roxy Hearts baws dropping had to do with it

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Roxy Hearts
1 minute ago, Captain Slog said:

I read this just after reading the posts immediately above it, and wondered what @Roxy Hearts baws dropping had to do with it

🤣

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Roxy Hearts
4 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

👍

Nice of you Britnats to stick together. Don't stray of the script now. 

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JDK2020
11 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

This is possibly the biggest thing that any Holyrood administration has has to deal with but compare the last 20 years of things that could be classed as scandalous and it's a joke that the whole integrity of Scottish politics is questioned. 

Westminster would be boarded up by now. 

 

 

The integrity of the whole of Scottish politics is not being questioned.

 

What is being questioned is the morals of the FM, who pretty much appears to have acted along with her other half, the SNP chief, the LA, the head of the CS, and the FM depute, to stitch up her former close political ally, predecessor and mentor, and then seek to cover up the fact once their plot failed.

 

It's like the political equivalent of Peter Lawwell's celtic, and nobody is suggesting that what happened at celtic and the subsequent cover up is questioning the whole of Scottish football.

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JackLadd

Wee Roxy wants to lash out but notice he hasn't once mentioned Alex Salmond as the reason Sturgeon is probably out. His tears and snotters need directed closer to home. 

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JDK2020
4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Nice of you Britnats to stick together. Don't stray of the script now. 

 

Lol, imagine anybody calling you an angry wee tube. 

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JDK2020
2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Wee Roxy wants to lash out but notice he hasn't once mentioned Alex Salmond as the reason Sturgeon is probably out. His tears and snotters need directed closer to home. 

 

And he probably sat up and clapped like a performing seal when Salmond walked from court a free man. 

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Roxy Hearts
1 minute ago, JDK2020 said:

 

Lol, imagine anybody calling you an angry wee tube. 

It's what's expected from a Britnat unionist. Doesn't bother me. It appears to bother you more.

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JackLadd
1 minute ago, JDK2020 said:

 

And he probably sat up and clapped like a performing seal when Salmond walked from court a free man. 

 

This is what is causing him most pain and confusion. Best blame the Britnats and ignore the yellow elephant in the room.

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Roxy Hearts
1 minute ago, JDK2020 said:

 

And he probably sat up and clapped like a performing seal when Salmond walked from court a free man. 

I've not paid any interest or saw any of what's going on apart from on here and seeing unionists getting all worked up.

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stevie1874
36 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

You're definitely a unionist. You stated Scotland was in debt, we can't borrow so how's that? You also think the Barnett formula is extra money. You're a typical Britnat.

What’s the issue if he’s a unionist, he’s surely still allowed an opinion? Your getting yourself all wound up 

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JDK2020
2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

This is what is causing him most pain and confusion. Best blame the Britnats and ignore the yellow elephant in the room.

 

They're all at it. Playing the victim card and havering about yoons, brits, tories, blah blah feckin blah and all the while the whole unseemly bitch-slapping contest is the product of internal SNP dirty dealing and the shabby attempts at covering it up.

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Roxy Hearts
1 minute ago, stevie1874 said:

What’s the issue if he’s a unionist, he’s surely still allowed an opinion? Your getting yourself all wound up 

Just pointing out incorrections about Barnett and debt. 

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Roxy Hearts
4 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

They're all at it. Playing the victim card and havering about yoons, brits, tories, blah blah feckin blah and all the while the whole unseemly bitch-slapping contest is the product of internal SNP dirty dealing and the shabby attempts at covering it up.

What politics aren't dirty? In relative terms this isn't that bad and I haven't given it much attention.

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JackLadd
Just now, JDK2020 said:

 

They're all at it. Playing the victim card and havering about yoons, brits, tories, blah blah feckin blah and all the while the whole unseemly bitch-slapping contest is the product of internal SNP dirty dealing and the shabby attempts at covering it up.

 

Correct. It's their own internal dirty laundry that they couldn't hide and cover up. The whole debacle is their own doing and they own it totally. Don't forget the same mob forced out Wendy Alexander in 2008 for far less. They don't like it up em.

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stevie1874
1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Just pointing out incorrections about Barnett and debt. 

Not wanting to get involved in your argument but that’s one thing that annoys me with nationalists some of the time is if your not 100% all in, then your not Scottish. Some people genuinely don’t believe it’s in Scotland’s best interests to become independent (me not sure at this time with all that’s going on in the world) Whether you like that or not they should still be allowed to express opinions. Anyway chill 👍

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Auldbenches
54 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What politics aren't dirty? In relative terms this isn't that bad and I haven't given it much attention.

If it is true, I think cultivating or deliberately exaggerating something as that was intended to put someone through a court case like that is very bad.

We'll see tomorrow but doing everything to withhold the evidence unti less than 24 hours doesn't point to complete innocence, though we may be we could be wrong.

Saying it isn't that bad does you no favours.  

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ri Alban

So what would have happened if they didn't investigate Alex Salmond. Now, That would have been a cover up. 

Edited by ri Alban
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Seymour M Hersh
6 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's what's expected from a Britnat unionist. Doesn't bother me. It appears to bother you more.

 

:orly?:

 

There seems to be a pavement awash with baby toys,  rattles and large clumps of straw.

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Roxy Hearts
16 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

:orly?:

 

There seems to be a pavement awash with baby toys,  rattles and large clumps of straw.

Good morning.

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Boy Daniel
8 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It rattles me that dumplings on here go on about what's happening in Scotland but not about the cesspit that's Westminster. I'll be voting SNP until independence is achieved.

There plenty berating the Tories in Westminster there’s even a thread on it. 
I’m no lover of the crooks and liars down there either. 

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Roxy Hearts
11 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

There plenty berating the Tories in Westminster there’s even a thread on it. 
I’m no lover of the crooks and liars down there either. 

👍

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Roxy Hearts
11 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

There plenty berating the Tories in Westminster there’s even a thread on it. 
I’m no lover of the crooks and liars down there either. 

👍

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9 hours ago, luckydug said:

It seems the Scottish Tories think its fair to convict someone before they even give evidence. 

Won't succeed though as the other parties want to wait until the enquiry has concluded. 


It seems the first minister thinks it’s fair to convict someone after they were found not guiltily by a court of law. 

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Mysterion
8 hours ago, coconut doug said:

What actually is it that Salmond has done that is so inappropriate?

 


I think you are rightly highlighting that Salmond was found not guilty but are deliberately happy to ignore the number of complaints against him.

 

You are happy to provide responses to points on a legal position but I think there are too many claimants for there not to be a significant concern that he may have been a sleaze.
 

I think most people don’t think he’s a rapist but given the circumstansive info and his lawyers public faux pas (on the train) it is naïveté at its best to sit and bang the “what did he do drum” when it’s clear he was a letchy old man. 

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Pans Jambo

So many clued up people here in matters of law and ministerial codes. 

 

Plus someone earlier claiming they know the state of Scottish financial affairs AFTER Independence...

 

I feel blessed.

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Horatio Caine

TBF - Salmond has played a blinder here.  Started off with his own inappropriate behaviour (by his Counsel's admission), which caused a number of serious complaints against him.  It's now turned that he is the victim! He's not a Celtic supporter is he?

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Malinga the Swinga
1 minute ago, Mysterion said:

I hink most people don’t think he’s a rapist but given the circumstansive info and his lawyers public faux pas (on the train) it is naïveté at its best to sit and bang the “what did he do drum” when it’s clear he was a letchy old man. 

He isn't a rapist, full stop. No circumstantive info, no letchy old man deflections will change this. This has to stop. 

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JamesM48
8 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

However Murrell and Co only needed one of the 13 charges to stick, one guilty verdict and AS was gone, never to return. All other enquiries over and NS solidifies her power base. 

 

The biggest mystery for me as a neutral is who was behind the strategy, was it the husband, the wife or a collective decision?

That’s the main issue . Who was behind all this . It seems to be a conspiracy . If it was ? Why ? Salmond had all but left the SNP so didn’t have much power . Why would they want to bring him down ? Sturgeon was and is flying high in the polls etc so why ? As others might note I’ve fell out of like with Sturgeon due to the handling if the pandemic but surely she deserves her say and will today . It would be a shame if her career ended in a scandal like this considering all she has done in her political life . Politics is a cruel career . Just look at how Thatcher was treated . She won the Tories 3 elections , completely changed the economic and social identity of the U.K. and got the boot very unceremoniously when in office ! ( ps now that was a great day ) . 

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AlimOzturk
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

So many clued up people here in matters of law and ministerial codes. 

 

Plus someone earlier claiming they know the state of Scottish financial affairs AFTER Independence...

 

I feel blessed.


Hi pans

 

If Sturgeon is found by the a inquiry to have breached the code do you feel she should resign?

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JamesM48
8 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

However Murrell and Co only needed one of the 13 charges to stick, one guilty verdict and AS was gone, never to return. All other enquiries over and NS solidifies her power base. 

 

The biggest mystery for me as a neutral is who was behind the strategy, was it the husband, the wife or a collective decision?

 

2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

He isn't a rapist, full stop. No circumstantive info, no letchy old man deflections will change this. This has to stop. 

Yes he was found not guilty and not proven . Simple as that . I think he comes over as rather “ sleazy “ but doesn’t mean he is . I just think Nicola et al have tried to put the boot in since his trial leaking comments that “ those women were victims “ I know they may sound harsh but surely if he was found not guilty then they were not believed so we’re not “victims “ , however I am aware the burden of proof in sex trains take trials is notoriously hard to prove as it’s one person against another . I served on a rape trial so I am very aware of the issues around this 

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Malinga the Swinga
1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

It would be a shame if her career ended in a scandal like this considering all she has done in her political life . Politics is a cruel career. 

If it does, and I am not convinced it will, she will have no one to blame bar herself and her husband. 

Climbed to top on Salmonds coat tails, stabs him in back at first opportunity, and then pays price when stab turns out to be scratch rather than fatal wound. 

Sounds like a film plot. 

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9 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

TBF - Salmond has played a blinder here.  Started off with his own inappropriate behaviour (by his Counsel's admission), which caused a number of serious complaints against him.  It's now turned that he is the victim! He's not a Celtic supporter is he?

Nope. PHM.

 

:verysmug:

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Smithee
9 hours ago, luckydug said:

That's why the SG pressed ahead with the case. 

They couldn't just bury it. 

Surely this is obvious. If they'd decided not to prosecute Salmond imagine the reaction!

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AlimOzturk
2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Yes he was found not guilty and not proven . Simple as that . I think he comes over as rather “ sleazy “ but doesn’t mean he is . I just think Nicola et al have tried to put the boot in since his trial leaking comments that “ those women were victims “ I know they may sound harsh but surely if he was found not guilty then they were not believed so we’re not “victims “ , however I am aware the burden of proof in sex trains take trials is notoriously hard to prove as it’s one person against another . I served on a rape trial so I am very aware of the issues around this 


There was 9(?) women’s words against his so that to me suggests there was something significantly wrong with their credibility that made the Jury not to believe them. I mean the allegation of rape at bute house when he wasn’t even at bute house that day should have seen that particular women charged for false allegations imo

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JamesM48
6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If it does, and I am not convinced it will, she will have no one to blame bar herself and her husband. 

Climbed to top on Salmonds coat tails, stabs him in back at first opportunity, and then pays price when stab turns out to be scratch rather than fatal wound. 

Sounds like a film plot. 

Yes I agree if it’s all true it’s pretty rotten thing to do . But like I said why ? What’s the motivation behind it ? I wonder who would play Alex snd her in a film lol 

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JamesM48
2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:


There was 9(?) women’s words against his so that to me suggests there was something significantly wrong with their credibility that made the Jury not to believe them. I mean the allegation of rape at bute house when he wasn’t even at bute house that day should have seen that particular women charged for false allegations imo

Tea completely agree . It annoys me that they have been portrayed as the “ victims “ when in fact it has been him as it was clearly a stitch up . Follow the money I say ! ( women’s bank accounts ) 

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jack D and coke
6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Yes he was found not guilty and not proven . Simple as that . I think he comes over as rather “ sleazy “ but doesn’t mean he is . I just think Nicola et al have tried to put the boot in since his trial leaking comments that “ those women were victims “ I know they may sound harsh but surely if he was found not guilty then they were not believed so we’re not “victims “ , however I am aware the burden of proof in sex trains take trials is notoriously hard to prove as it’s one person against another . I served on a rape trial so I am very aware of the issues around this 

It’s a bizarre affair altogether. It literally makes no sense unless she was just determined to expose him as a letchy pest and believed something would’ve stuck.

We’ll see later today possibly. 
 

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Mysterion
11 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

He isn't a rapist, full stop. No circumstantive info, no letchy old man deflections will change this. This has to stop. 

You can’t stop people having an opinion man...

 

Again - I don’t think he was guilty of the charges laid against him.

 

Alex “Touchy Feely” Salmond will struggle to shift his reputation for being “Hands on” as the wiki page about his trial suggests...

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Debut 4

I’m stayed away from this thread and only viewed it but even before a ball is kicked there’s dummies being spat out left, right and centre.  
 

Like petulant kids not getting their own way. 😂

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doctor jambo
16 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s the main issue . Who was behind all this . It seems to be a conspiracy . If it was ? Why ? Salmond had all but left the SNP so didn’t have much power . Why would they want to bring him down ? Sturgeon was and is flying high in the polls etc so why ? As others might note I’ve fell out of like with Sturgeon due to the handling if the pandemic but surely she deserves her say and will today . It would be a shame if her career ended in a scandal like this considering all she has done in her political life . Politics is a cruel career . Just look at how Thatcher was treated . She won the Tories 3 elections , completely changed the economic and social identity of the U.K. and got the boot very unceremoniously when in office ! ( ps now that was a great day ) . 

The snp are like the Sith.

Always two there are- a master and an apprentice.

So to rule the apprentice must kill the master.

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AlimOzturk
2 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

You can’t stop people having an opinion man...

 

Again - I don’t think he was guilty of the charges laid against him.

 

Alex “Touchy Feely” Salmond will struggle to shift his reputation for being “Hands on” as the wiki page about his trial suggests...


I think he is all but retired now and this is his swan song bringing down people he feels have betrayed him. I think his reputation is less important to him now that he out of politics. No way he could make a come back. To old now anyways. 

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Malinga the Swinga
3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I mean the allegation of rape at bute house when he wasn’t even at bute house that day should have seen that particular women charged for false allegations imo

All the women were granted anonymity &  immunity guarantee from Crown before trial took place, regardless of whether they were proven to have lied. 

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