Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

I have listened to her and wonder why she is still broadcasting to the nation every day, long after everyone else has stopped.  She even managed to launch her pamphlet for independence during this serious crisis, so who exactly is politicising this situation?

 

News stories lol - you draw your conclusions from news stories?

 

Did she launch the independence pamphlet at the briefing?    Or are you just trying to snakely conflate the briefings with unrelated party policy?

[tcjambo]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Correct.   Without exception,  every complaint that Sturgeon is attempting to gain political capital via her briefings is motivated by political motives or agendas.    Rancid hypocrisy.    The briefings have been anything but political.    Any political capital gained has been a byproduct of sustained diligence and sense of duty of the very highest calibre.   Opponents don't like it,  can't stomach it and stoop to the lowest level to put a spanner in the works.    

Oh dear.

[tcjambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Did she launch the independence pamphlet at the briefing?    Or are you just trying to snakely conflate the briefings with unrelated party policy?

No she snakely did it not me.

[Victorian]

Just now, tcjambo said:

Oh dear.

 

A better counter argument is required I'm afraid.   "Oh dear" is a bit lame.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, tcjambo said:

No she snakely did it not me.

 

But she didn't launch the independence pamphlet at a briefing?   You agree?    

[tcjambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

A better counter argument is required I'm afraid.   "Oh dear" is a bit lame.

You commented on NS 's motivation for pushing independence. It's been commented on loads of times by commentators that she misses no opprtaunity to suggest indepenence is the answer to ever problem known to man. I siuspect from your response you think the same lol .

 

My main point is she has failed to properly analyse the data- she can't she doesn't undertand it and she has weak advice . If you can come up with proper arguments then fine we will debate it.

[Nucky Thompson]

FFS everyone can see that Sturgeon has been pushing a political agenda for a couple of months now 

[tcjambo]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

But she didn't launch the independence pamphlet at a briefing?   You agree?    

She launched it in a timescale where she was giving daily briefings - do you agree?

[tcjambo]

3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

FFS everyone can see that Sturgeon has been pushing a political agenda for all her life

Fixed that for you

[Victorian]

Just now, tcjambo said:

She launched it in a timescale where she was giving daily briefings - do you agree?

 

She spends briefing time,  parliament sitting time and other time on covid related matters.   She launched the independence pamphlet during time devoted to matters outwith covid related matters.

 

Not rocket science.   Whether you want independence or do not want it,  it is a legitimate use of some of her waking hours.    If has no relation whatsoever to her duties to deal with covid.

 

You tried to conflate the two.   Failed miserably.   Nae luck.

[tcjambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

She spends briefing time,  parliament sitting time and other time on covid related matters.   She launched the independence pamphlet during time devoted to matters outwith covid related matters.

 

Not rocket science.   Whether you want independence or do not want it,  it is a legitimate use of some of her waking hours.    If has no relation whatsoever to her duties to deal with covid.

 

You tried to conflate the two.   Failed miserably.   Nae luck.

You are the one with nae luck mate. Outed.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

She spends briefing time,  parliament sitting time and other time on covid related matters.   She launched the independence pamphlet during time devoted to matters outwith covid related matters.

 

Not rocket science.   Whether you want independence or do not want it,  it is a legitimate use of some of her waking hours.    If has no relation whatsoever to her duties to deal with covid.

 

You tried to conflate the two.   Failed miserably.   Nae luck.

Spot on.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

My posts are based on analysis from Oxford University - so wind your neck in unless you can come up with proper arguments

 

Proper arguments about what?

 

I started watching that video you posted, just to see what it was on about, but gave up when whoever made it said "The epidemic largely ended around May, early June", based purely on the death curves and ignoring the fact that it was lockdown and local restrictions that got us there. As soon as we have started relaxing these restrictions, infection rates have started going up again. It's not rocket science. Ok, so deaths have remained low, which is great, but that's partially because older folk and those with medical conditions are being much more careful to keep themselves away from those who might be infected, combined with better knowledge of how to treat the disease, and far better response regarding early diagnosis and hospital capacity to deal with it.

 

Here's the graph you really need:

 

 

And that recent rise in infections is during a period *with restrictions*. Let it run out of control again, let the R number rise too high again and it's going to be a lot more difficult stopping the virus from causing havoc like it did earlier on.

 

All the authorities are doing is trying to balance opening things back up again with stopping the virus getting out of control again, and they are doing that by focussing on localised restrictions when the infection rate starts reaching worrying levels locally, and tightening restrictions nationally when the overall infection rate starts to look worrying.

 

It is a very delicate balancing act indeed, not helped by those who flout the guidelines/laws and by doing so, make the task much harder. If some of these folk are doing it intentionally because they "don't want to be told what to do" then it is ironic indeed because by their very actions, and the consequences thereof, they are bringing about tighter restrictions.

[Victorian]

Just now, tcjambo said:

You are the one with nae luck mate. Outed.

 

  

[tcjambo]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

She spends briefing time,  parliament sitting time and other time on covid related matters.   She launched the independence pamphlet during time devoted to matters outwith covid related matters.

 

Not rocket science.   Whether you want independence or do not want it,  it is a legitimate use of some of her waking hours.    If has no relation whatsoever to her duties to deal with covid.

 

You tried to conflate the two.   Failed miserably.   Nae luck.

BTW  With your username I think it is very touching that you hanker after an era when British imperialism was at its height lol

[Victorian]

Just now, tcjambo said:

BTW  With your username I think it is very touching that you hanker after an era when British imperialism was at its height lol

 

I'll help you find your head.   I'm with you all the way.

[Ray Gin]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

She spends briefing time,  parliament sitting time and other time on covid related matters.   She launched the independence pamphlet during time devoted to matters outwith covid related matters.

 

Not rocket science.   Whether you want independence or do not want it,  it is a legitimate use of some of her waking hours.    If has no relation whatsoever to her duties to deal with covid.

 

You tried to conflate the two.   Failed miserably.   Nae luck.

 

Correct. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I'll help you find your head.   I'm with you all the way.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

She spends briefing time,  parliament sitting time and other time on covid related matters.   She launched the independence pamphlet during time devoted to matters outwith covid related matters.

 

Not rocket science.   Whether you want independence or do not want it,  it is a legitimate use of some of her waking hours.    If has no relation whatsoever to her duties to deal with covid.

 

You tried to conflate the two.   Failed miserably.   Nae luck.

When is she going to spend parliament time fixing the fecked up mess the country is in.

Sheriffhall roundabout, A1 dual carriageway all the way down to the English border?

 

[tcjambo]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Proper arguments about what?

 

I started watching that video you posted, just to see what it was on about, but gave up when whoever made it said "The epidemic largely ended around May, early June", based purely on the death curves and ignoring the fact that it was lockdown and local restrictions that got us there. As soon as we have started relaxing these restrictions, infection rates have started going up again. It's not rocket science. Ok, so deaths have remained low, which is great, but that's partially because older folk and those with medical conditions are being much more careful to keep themselves away from those who might be infected, combined with better knowledge of how to treat the disease, and far better response regarding early diagnosis and hospital capacity to deal with it.

 

Here's the graph you really need:

 

 

And that recent rise in infections is during a period *with restrictions*. Let it run out of control again, let the R number rise too high again and it's going to be a lot more difficult stopping the virus from causing havoc like it did earlier on.

 

All the authorities are doing is trying to balance opening things back up again with stopping the virus getting out of control again, and they are doing that by focussing on localised restrictions when the infection rate starts reaching worrying levels locally, and tightening restrictions nationally when the overall infection rate starts to look worrying.

 

It is a very delicate balancing act indeed, not helped by those who flout the guidelines/laws and by doing so, make the task much harder. If some of these folk are doing it intentionally because they "don't want to be told what to do" then it is ironic indeed because by their very actions, and the consequences thereof, they are bringing about tighter restrictions.

Jason Oke the Statistician at the Centre of Evidence Based Medicine is very clear that the infection reached its peak on March 16th and lockdown has done sod all.Maximum deaths were reached on April 8th in E & W.  Social disatancing is crucial in reducing viral load and thise specific measures have been largely successful. Other measures are unnecessary and illiberal.

Edited September 11, 2020 by tcjambo

[tcjambo]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

When is she going to spend parliament time fixing the fecked up mess the country is in.

Sheriffhall roundabout, A1 dual carriageway all the way down to the English border?

 

It's nice to know that so many of our fellow Jambos suffer from Stockholm Syndrome lol

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

When is she going to spend parliament time fixing the fecked up mess the country is in.

Sheriffhall roundabout, A1 dual carriageway all the way down to the English border?

 

 

Agree in principle.   Perhaps during a time of crisis and to justify the small amount of FM time being devoted to independence,   it could be argued that some FM duties could be hived off to a secondary leader to oversee.    Reallocate the various briefs and try to get through a bit more.

[Салатные палочки]

I seen on the news that the hospital built at the SECC to deal with the "massive influx" of covid cases cost £30m to set up and is costing £2m a month to maintain and yet has treated not one person for coronavirus. 

 

That's over £40m of taxpayers money spunked away while there are hospital beds available elsewhere. Someone needs to be brought to task over that. Ridiculous. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Salad Fingers said:

I seen on the news that the hospital built at the SECC to deal with the "massive influx" of covid cases cost £30m to set up and is costing £2m a month to maintain and yet has treated not one person for coronavirus. 

 

That's over £40m of taxpayers money spunked away while there are hospital beds available elsewhere. Someone needs to be brought to task over that. Ridiculous. 

 

Hindsight is barry.   Better than top rank ching.

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

I seen on the news that the hospital built at the SECC to deal with the "massive influx" of covid cases cost £30m to set up and is costing £2m a month to maintain and yet has treated not one person for coronavirus. 

 

That's over £40m of taxpayers money spunked away while there are hospital beds available elsewhere. Someone needs to be brought to task over that. Ridiculous. 

Are you being serious?

[Салатные палочки]

1 minute ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Are you being serious?

 

Yes. Why? 

[redjambo]

Just now, Salad Fingers said:

I seen on the news that the hospital built at the SECC to deal with the "massive influx" of covid cases cost £30m to set up and is costing £2m a month to maintain and yet has treated not one person for coronavirus. 

 

That's over £40m of taxpayers money spunked away while there are hospital beds available elsewhere. Someone needs to be brought to task over that. Ridiculous. 

 

It was there for emergency use, essentially insurance if our hospitals couldn't cope. I would have rather have had that than our hospitals run out of capacity. Would you have preferred that we just run the risk that our hospitals could cope with the influx, and to hell with those who needed hospital treatment after they were full?

 

It's still there if we need it. It's being used for training purposes at the moment, as well as dealing with outpatient appointments and consultations.

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

Yes. Why? 

Because, and I'm sure you know this, if the Louisa Jordan hadn't been built and our infections and hospitalisations had ended up like Italy and Spain national hospital capacity would have been overwhelmed.

If the LJ hadn't been prepped, you, and I'm projecting here, would have been among those raging at the lack of preparedness by "Nippy".

Not a good look.

In my opinion obviously.

[Салатные палочки]

2 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Because, and I'm sure you know this, if the Louisa Jordan hadn't been built and our infections and hospitalisations had ended up like Italy and Spain national hospital capacity would have been overwhelmed.

If the LJ hadn't been prepped, you, and I'm projecting here, would have been among those raging at the lack of preparedness by "Nippy".

Not a good look.

In my opinion obviously.

 

I'm not sure i would have been "raging" as I had faith that our super hospitals would have had the capacity to deal with it. 

 

I'll keep my opinions on the "prep", (and the whole thing) to myself for fear of being labelled amongst the tin foil hat brigade and it's not for this thread. 

[Victorian]

Even the plastic opposition party leaders at Holyrood haven't grasped at the non use of the Louisa Jordan in a desperate attempt to appear competent.    Why?    Because it's a hopelessly bankrupt notion that would make even Ruth Davidson cringe in embarrassment,   if she could tear herself away from the cornette inducing courtroom lawyer impersonation routine.    You're not a lawyer Ruth.   What was your professional background again?   Oh aye... nothing.

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

I'm not sure i would have been "raging" as I had faith that our super hospitals would have had the capacity to deal with it. 

 

I'll keep my opinions on the "prep", (and the whole thing) to myself for fear of being labelled amongst the tin foil hat brigade and it's not for this thread. 

 

It was hoped, even when building it, that it would never be used.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52121144

 

Remember that several such hospitals were built around the UK. No-one was taking any chances. Either you prepare for disaster or you don't.

[Konrad von Carstein]

4 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

I'm not sure i would have been "raging" as I had faith that our super hospitals would have had the capacity to deal with it. 

 

I'll keep my opinions on the "prep", (and the whole thing) to myself for fear of being labelled amongst the tin foil hat brigade and it's not for this thread. 

 

OK, fair enough, not looking to get baw deep in an argument, from my perspective the LJ was the correct thing to have in place and keep running in case of a second wave or large spike.

Opinions though 

[Justin Z]

The folk making up stories about Sturgeon politicising Covid are of course themselves politicising Covid (as @redjambo so astutely pointed out).

 

Irony:

 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Properly thought out? Even the Swedes admitted they didn't get their strategy right: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/man-behind-sweden-s-virus-strategy-says-he-got-some-things-wrong

 

Also, at one point the restrictions in Sweden were even tighter than those in France. However, in saying that, the Swedes concentrated on individual responsibility. Perhaps that's because the Swedes are more responsible? A quick glance through this very thread will amply the illustrate the irresponsible nature of many of we Brits when it comes to even following advice and guidelines. In Sweden, folk who broke the advice and the regulations were publicly shamed by their peers. Here, I wouldn't go as far as to say that they were celebrated, but how often have we heard things like "They're just young, you can't stop them having fun".

That is about the tenth time that  now over 3 month old Bloomberg article  has been pulled out on here The fact that  Sweden admitted mistakes is surely further evidence of the maturity the Swedes have shown and their willingness to treat their citizens as adults not children. Without exception everyone has made mistakes in relation to Covid 19. Admitting it is surely a prerequisite for moving forward. 

 

But our media and our politics make that difficult if not impossible. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Francis Albert

[AlphonseCapone]

Sturgeon still inducing tears and snotters from grown men. Some woman. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Sturgeon still inducing tears and snotters from grown men. Some woman. 

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Sturgeon is finished. Has been for years. 

Why anyone would choose a Blairite type person to represent the future is beyond me. 

 

But you lot do love your losers. 

 

Somebody's sure continuing to obsess over this so-called "loser"

[Justin Z]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Sturgeon is finished. Has been for years.

 

What a fascinating fantasy to construct, too. "The current First Minister of Scotland, who has been such for nearly six years and is a statistical certainty to carry on as such come May 2021, when the SNP likely secure a majority at Holyrood even without list seats, has been finished for years."

The fevered, deluded imagination it takes to come up with something like that. Mental

[graygo]

20 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

What a fascinating fantasy to construct, too. "The current First Minister of Scotland, who has been such for nearly six years and is a statistical certainty to carry on as such come May 2021, when the SNP likely secure a majority at Holyrood even without list seats, has been finished for years."

The fevered, deluded imagination it takes to come up with something like that. Mental

 

An oxymoron if ever there was one.

[AlphonseCapone]

30 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Sturgeon is finished. Has been for years. 

Why anyone would choose a Blairite type person to represent the future is beyond me. 

 

But you lot do love your losers. 

 

Drowning in your tears and snotters. Sturgeon plays with your emotions like silly putty. 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

The folk making up stories about Sturgeon politicising Covid are of course themselves politicising Covid (as @redjambo so astutely pointed out).

 

Irony:

 

 

"Say what you see"? "Is it flogging a horse to death"? Do I win?

[Justin Z]

Just now, FinnBarr Saunders said:

"Say what you see"? "Is it flogging a horse to death"? Do I win?

 

"It's good but it's not right" (actually it is right, but I love when Roy Walker says that, so )

[Robbofan99]

4 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's now went from 2 weeks to 4-6 weeks. The infections have been rising fast for over a month now, even longer in Spain and France.

In 4-6 weeks are you going to say lets wait 8-10 weeks?

Exactly mate he rattles on about death stats claiming that they are not the barometer of how the virus is going and comes up with the same shit every other day..." wait 2 weeks . wait 4 weeks  . and the other day it was wait 2 months." I'm definitely keeping my eye on his postings and will call him out on each of these dates. 

[graygo]

22 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

"It's good but it's not right" (actually it is right, but I love when Roy Walker says that, so )

 

No it's no, it's "flogging a dead horse".

 

I demand the prize.

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

What a fascinating fantasy to construct, too. "The current First Minister of Scotland, who has been such for nearly six years and is a statistical certainty to carry on as such come May 2021, when the SNP likely secure a majority at Holyrood even without list seats, has been finished for years."

The fevered, deluded imagination it takes to come up with something like that. Mental

 

When I left Scotland in 2012 if memory serves the SNP weren't quite the force they are now. From here they appear to be a force in Westminster far less Scotland.

And I have even seen talk of them extending their influence by casting their net into the North of England where allegedly they have some degree of support. And that may be true.

I also frequent some English football forums where Sturgeon is often mentioned as more effective than and competent than Boris is. She appears to impress the Northern English.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

9 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

No it's no, it's "flogging a dead horse".

 

I demand the prize.

 

Damn you

[graygo]

19 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Damn you

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Feckin seething, lol

[graygo]

39 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Feckin seething, lol

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Sturgeon is finished. Has been for years. 

Why anyone would choose a Blairite type person to represent the future is beyond me. 

 

But you lot do love your losers. 

Have you dried your eyes yet?