Back to 2005 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, frankblack said: Which ones? Bristol, London certainly were. Those types will go where there is opportunities to riot. Where are you getting this from? Sounds like you're getting mixed up with BLM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, SteauaNeedarest said: Where did I say there were leaders in the field on this forum? I’d say Prof Sikora and Prof Heneghan infinitely more knowledgeable than you and they disagree with the Gov strategy... https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-needs-to-rethink-his-covid-strategy Where did I say you said there were leaders in the field on this forum? I didn't. An again, what does it matter if some scientist has an alternative opinion. What matters is the consensus from the acknowledged leaders n the field. If that weren't what matters we would be taking seriously the fringe in any field. Like the 'creationist scientists' declaring the Earth is young. I listen to the consensus not the fringe. Largely because I'm not qualified to offer any worthwhile opinion on their advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, 1874robbo said: I will happily dispute these scientists when I consider they don’t know if they’re going for a shite or a haircut. my opinion stands on you though 👍🏻 Yes, you go right ahead with your non educated disputation of a complex science you know less about than I do about pretty much anything. That makes prefect sense doesn't it. Logical. Let's listen to every Tom Dick and non entity on all scientific subjects. Logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 27 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: Where did I say you said there were leaders in the field on this forum? I didn't. An again, what does it matter if some scientist has an alternative opinion. What matters is the consensus from the acknowledged leaders n the field. If that weren't what matters we would be taking seriously the fringe in any field. Like the 'creationist scientists' declaring the Earth is young. I listen to the consensus not the fringe. Largely because I'm not qualified to offer any worthwhile opinion on their advice. How are they any more acknowledged in their field than Sikora etc? Because the government use them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King prawn Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 https://www.ft.com/content/5cc92d45-fbdb-43b7-9c66-26501693a371 Free to read for anyone who is interested - an interview with Anders Tegnell (Swedish epidemiologist) And before you get the pitchforks out I'm not saying I agree with him - I find their approach interesting since I live in Spain which has largely taken the opposite approach and it's considerably worse here than there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back to 2005 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/five-questions-for-chris-whitty-and-patrick-vallance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said: How are they any more acknowledged in their field than Sikora etc? Because the government use them? I couldn't say how they make their decisions on who is most qualified to advise them. But one thing I would suspect is that they turn to experts in the specific field which this Sikora is not. Quote Karol Sikora is a British physician specialising in oncology, who has been described as a leading world authority on cancer. So when making their decision on who to turn to are they likely to turn to experts in virology or experts in cancer? What would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gards Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said: How are they any more acknowledged in their field than Sikora etc? Because the government use them? Yes. Whose to say Sikora isn't pissed he didn't get the gig and wants to undermine those who did? Slightly tongue in cheek response but they're human too and have agendas....so there's always two sides. Only thing I would say is our (UK) response isn't isolation with other countries. So do those other countries also have similar and like minded scientists giving their guidance and it's just coincidence at this point and time in history that all the scientists who are doubting the 'science' are on the outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, JFK-1 said: So the government is now increasing the alert level to level 4 which means transmission is "high or rising exponentially". The scientists are predicting a potential 50,000 new cases a day by mid October without further action. Think about the pressure on the NHS of that before whining about mental health and cancelled surgeries. This is a war against an invisible enemy that isn't going to be won anytime soon. Just incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, King prawn said: https://www.ft.com/content/5cc92d45-fbdb-43b7-9c66-26501693a371 Free to read for anyone who is interested - an interview with Anders Tegnell (Swedish epidemiologist) And before you get the pitchforks out I'm not saying I agree with him - I find their approach interesting since I live in Spain which has largely taken the opposite approach and it's considerably worse here than there. Good article but the doomsayers will be along any moment now to tell us how amazing lockdown and masks are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said: There's been so little of this type of data available, perhaps for understandable reasons, but it would be good to know more details of the where when and how people have picked this up along with as you say the type of 'underlying health conditions' that are most at risk. There must be a decent sample size now for things like diabetes and asthma. I know it's been answered, however here is a right up to date list of the comorbidities from the CDC, dated 11 September. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html Not sure where you have been looking but this stuff has been widely reported all over the media since March at least. Here are the most serious underlying medical conditions which have an increased risk of severe illness from Covid-19 according to the CDC. Cancer Chronic kidney disease COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease) Immunocompromised state (weakened immune system) from solid organ transplant Obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 30 or higher) Serious heart conditions, such as heart failure, coronary artery disease, or cardiomyopathies Sickle cell disease Type 2 diabetes mellitus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gards Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, SteauaNeedarest said: Good article but the doomsayers will be along any moment now to tell us how amazing lockdown and masks are. Mate - not picking on you but this is one of the problems. It's not a binary "must be one way or other". It's possible that some of the stuff Sweden did is good AND having masks and some level of lockdown also works. To make that a reason for division doesn't help the debate move forward imho - just creates more division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said: Good article but the doomsayers will be along any moment now to tell us how amazing lockdown and masks are. Lockdown and masks are amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Gards said: Mate - not picking on you but this is one of the problems. It's not a binary "must be one way or other". It's possible that some of the stuff Sweden did is good AND having masks and some level of lockdown also works. To make that a reason for division doesn't help the debate move forward imho - just creates more division. If Sweden had a solution that was better and would work everywhere you can be guaranteed everyone would be following it. What sort of idiot do you have to be to imagine that governments the world over are happy to be creating the economic consequences of the responses to this crisis if there were a better way? For example Sweden has a population of around 10 million. Only around a million or so more than London. And the population in London is squeezed into a vastly smaller area. A guess would be population density is a hugely important factor. And there will no doubt be countless other factors only experts in the field can even think of far less offer opinion on. Edited September 21, 2020 by JFK-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, frankblack said: Sorry to spoil your fun. I noticed you were itching for an argument and are straw clutching. No you are refusing to acknowledge or defend your ridiculous view that the state should resort to maximum force to suppress protest and other mass gatherings. And redefining maximum force as you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 37 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said: Absolutely, Joe Wicks played his part too. Seems a long time ago now funnily enough. There’s absolutely no way we’re heading back to full lockdown, the UK would be utterly ****ed if we are and the mental health of the country would severely decline. Hopefully just a tightening of current restrictions and although I don’t want jack boots on the streets I think we’re all getting a bit pissed off at those folk who have spoiled it for everyone else. Yup. What I personally would like to see, for example, is the issuing of medical certificates for folk who can't wear masks so that every Tom, Dick and Henrietta don't use it as an excuse not to wear one in places where they should be doing so. Simple things like to stop people taking the piss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 We need more obnoxious posters imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, JFK-1 said: If Sweden had a solution that was better and would work everywhere you can be guaranteed everyone would be following it. What sort of idiot do you have to be to imagine that governments the world over are happy to be creating the economic consequences of the responses to this crisis if there were a better way? For example Sweden has a population of around 10 million. Only around a million or so more than London. And the population in London is squeezed into a vastly smaller area. A guess would be population density is a hugely important factor. And there will no doubt be countless other factors only experts in the field can even think of far less offer opinion on. I don't think it's a guess. Sweden has a population density of 25 people per km2, the UK has over 10 times that amount at 275 per km2. Now I know there are many factors and population density is just one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: Lockdown and masks are amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Just now, Brian Dundas said: Do we get them both at the same time this time? Sitting in my house with a mask on knowing everyone else has to stay home and wear one too - bliss The poster from Hamilton will be pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said: Do we get them both at the same time this time? Sitting in my house with a mask on knowing everyone else has to stay home and wear one too - bliss What you wear in your house is your business, Bri. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: I don't think it's a guess. Sweden has a population density of 25 people per km2, the UK has over 10 times that amount at 275 per km2. Now I know there are many factors and population density is just one of them. London 1,510 per square kilometre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, jonesy said: FTFY You're not qualified to FTFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, King prawn said: I may be completely wrong here so happy to be corrected but I think Italy were slower to leave the lockdown, compared to Spain anyways. I wonder if their cases will start going up as well as more things start opening up. According to the article I read, they locked down for 10 weeks from March. I think they locked down earlier than us though iirc. Apparently their cases have gone up from low hundreds in July to about 2k now but there is talk of second waves or more lockdowns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 37 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: Lockdown and masks are amazing. One hour exercise walks are cool too, like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, jonesy said: It's okay, I called Vallance and Whitty. They gave me the green light 😛 You'd be as well asking fat Tracy from Facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: I don't think it's a guess. Sweden has a population density of 25 people per km2, the UK has over 10 times that amount at 275 per km2. Now I know there are many factors and population density is just one of them. After a bit of googling I see Scotland’s pop density is 65/km2. Perhaps the Sweden strategy would work better here than England? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Morgan said: One hour exercise walks are cool too, like. 👍 Zoom peeving is brilliant too. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbow Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, 1874robbo said: Every self employed tradesman I know has actually been better off during all of this. Some trades for sure, most were able to work during lockdown. Some food retailers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said: 👍 Zoom peeving is brilliant too. 😎 🍷🍺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, jonesy said: I understand where you're coming from, but would suggest that's a dangerous route to go down. As we've seen from issues around removal/reduction in benefits cases, systems put in place to decide who is 'worthy' of exemption are likely to be controversial in themselves. Appreciated, jonesy. It could make quite a difference though. Even if the exemption criteria were "liberal", the very fact that you would have to go through your doctor to get one would probably reduce the number of dishonest chancers using medical exemption as an excuse. There have been quite a few examples on here of the significant proportion of folk in hospitality, shops and public transport who are not wearing masks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOak88 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: I don't think it's a guess. Sweden has a population density of 25 people per km2, the UK has over 10 times that amount at 275 per km2. Now I know there are many factors and population density is just one of them. That’s not really the way to work this out. Imagine a mythical country the size of Russia, and imagine it only had one city (about the size of London), however 100% of the population lived there. The population per Km2 would be tiny as the land mass of Russia is huge. However, the country described would be in real trouble in the event of a pandemic as 100% of the population all live in close quarters in an urban area. The more pertinent stat when making such a comparison would be the percentage of the population who live in urban areas, rather than population per Km2. Sweden have a higher percentage of the population that live in urban areas than the UK does. Both are between 80-90%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BarneyBattles said: I do understand where you are coming from but those NHS claps were for me, the biggest national cringe since the birdie song. Folk out banging pots and pans and the thank you NHS nonsense to make themselves feel better. Almost as embarrassing as flying a spitfire over the cities to say cheers. Britain is full of ****wits. Brainwashed ****ing headcases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said: That’s not really the way to work this out. Imagine a mythical country the size of Russia, and imagine it only had one city (about the size of London), however 100% of the population lived there. The population per Km2 would be tiny as the land mass of Russia is huge. However, the country described would be in real trouble in the event of a pandemic as 100% of the population all live in close quarters in an urban area. The more pertinent stat when making such a comparison would be the percentage of the population who live in urban areas, rather than population per Km2. Sweden have a higher percentage of the population that live in urban areas than the UK does. Both are between 80-90%. This should be a sticky so that it doesn't have to be explained over and over again. Spain's population density is closer to Sweden's than the UK and they haven't exactly been doing great. As you say, it's far too simplistic to look at population per sq/km. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionFJambo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 England closing all pubs and hospitality venues daily from 10pm on Thursday. Also limited to table service only. Seems a sensible approach however you can guarantee Sturgeon will have to go one further. 6pm sound about right...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 If this thread was a virus, it would be AIDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, SectionFJambo said: England closing all pubs and hospitality venues daily from 10pm on Thursday. Also limited to table service only. Seems a sensible approach however you can guarantee Sturgeon will have to go one further. 6pm sound about right...... Yes, a common sense decision. Yeah, she'll have to do something different no doubt. Let's hope it's 11pm👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Riddley Walker said: If this thread was a virus, it would be AIDS. Would it? 🤦♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Yes, a common sense decision. Yeah, she'll have to do something different no doubt. Let's hope it's 11pm👍 Is it though? People can still spend hours getting pissed together they just head home a bit earlier. Instead of spending 6 hours in the pub you spend 4 hours. Surely if you have Covid that’s plenty of time to spread to everyone in the pub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said: Agree but I suspect that’s still being done because we still have a few old folks who were active in the war. Hopefully it gets toned down massively once they’re all dead. Celebrating mass murder from 80 years ago isn’t a good look in the 21st century, despite the circumstances at the time. It’s not. They have literally nothing else to give us these days other than look we won the war. Don’t get me wrong I’d never denigrate those men and women or the memory but to try palm the health workers off with that shite is embarrassing. But we lap it up. The clapping? Edited September 21, 2020 by jack D and coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Adam_the_legend said: Is it though? People can still spend hours getting pissed together they just head home a bit earlier. Instead of spending 6 hours in the pub you spend 4 hours. Surely if you have Covid that’s plenty of time to spread to everyone in the pub? Pubs and restaurants are not the problem. Only 2 households can mix, you have to wear a mask on the floor and it's table service. The existing rules, if obeyed and enforced, are perfectly safe. That's my experience from the ones I go to. If some places are not observing that we need to ramp up enforcement. The problem is crowds of youngsters mingling in house parties, beaches and raves. If everyone else is observing the rules and being careful then eventually cases will drop imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Riddley Walker said: If this thread was a virus, it would be AIDS. And not the good kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Government deciding when a Covid is starting its shift... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, SteauaNeedarest said: Where did I say there were leaders in the field on this forum? I’d say Prof Sikora and Prof Heneghan infinitely more knowledgeable than you and they disagree with the Gov strategy... https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-needs-to-rethink-his-covid-strategy Heneghan I find informative and it would be interesting to see him and SAGE discussing policy and the numbers as clearly there is a difference in view. Sikora I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Has links to the shady Tufton St "think tanks" who want to deregulate Britain and profiteer, with the NHS being one such market they want to financially exploit. http://www.pharmafile.com/news/pharmafocus-interview-karol-sikora-doctors-reform Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Pubs and restaurants are not the problem. Only 2 households can mix, you have to wear a mask on the floor and it's table service. The existing rules, if obeyed and enforced, are perfectly safe. That's my experience from the ones I go to. If some places are not observing that we need to ramp up enforcement. The problem is crowds of youngsters mingling in house parties, beaches and raves. If everyone else is observing the rules and being careful then eventually cases will drop imo. I agree. My ultimate point was this seems like a pointless restriction and has been done so the government appear to be doing something rather than a belief it will make a substantial difference to infections. The constant knee jerk policy changes are crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 hours ago, JFK-1 said: Yes, you go right ahead with your non educated disputation of a complex science you know less about than I do about pretty much anything. That makes prefect sense doesn't it. Logical. Let's listen to every Tom Dick and non entity on all scientific subjects. Logical. Ok mr logic 😂😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said: I agree. My ultimate point was this seems like a pointless restriction and has been done so the government appear to be doing something rather than a belief it will make a substantial difference to infections. The constant knee jerk policy changes are crazy. Yes, I totally agree. The rule of 6 hasn't even had time to take effect and they are already introducing more changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 A quarter of Wales has been put in lockdown, England set to fine pubs £1k for not keeping tables 2m apart, and no visiting other people's homes in Northern Ireland. Worth bearing in mind before the inevitable posts tomorrow about Sturgeon going power crazy and political posturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, 1874robbo said: Ok mr logic 😂😂😂😂 Yes indeed, 3 words 4 smileys are a killer blow. They destroy all logic. Now you really are proven to be a credible opposition to the stupid scientists. Aside from your status as a pseudo expert worthy of any credible opinion in this science let me offer another 'opinion' You're one of these people who aside from being upset that anyone would point out your obvious and 100% lack of expertise, are also one of these people who even when there's nothing rational left to say still want to say something. Anything. Last wordism. Talking while saying nothing. The final refuge of countless non educated pseudo experts in all fields. If I just say something else, no matter how empty of any actual content. I'm the winner. An expert with credible advice. Fortunately that's not the way science works but you go right ahead. Demonstrate your credibility. Dazzle one and all with such a sparkling display of learned logical verbosity that all will clearly see your genius. In comparison to the stupidity of me and all those scientists. Be my guest. Humble the entire scientific community with smileys. Make it 6 this time. That's even more credible than 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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