Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[TheOak88]

32 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Many, such as breaking up mass gatherings with maximum force, criminal records, fines down to enforcing face mask rules on public transport and removing exemptions liars are using to get on without them.

 

Scary how some people think like. 

[TheOak88]

As a society we asked for stronger restrictions, looks like we are going to get them. 

[Victorian]

13 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I think those who are currently breaking rules will continue to. I don’t think increased restrictions will be a light bulb moment.

 

Those who are currently obeying the restrictions, the majority will continue to do so. Though there will be a percentage who won’t follow new rules, for whatever reason. The extent of this will be dependant on restrictions. If they ban households meeting up they will have a large chunk of people breaking the rules. It would be incredibly unpopular restriction and a very easy one to break with little consequences. 
 

its strange in someways the more they increase restrictions, the more they are likely to see the rules broke. Though overall it should still result in a reduction of spread.

 

New restrictions are coming in for a long time, autumn and winter, or vaccine being found was the impression given today. They go to hard on restrictions here they could kick a big kickback and too light risk the spread. Its a tight rope not one I think we are close to getting the balance right.

 

All that said the vast majority of people will obey the rules for a variety of reasons, its just how big the minority will be. Whilst people who break the rule will tend to do it now and again as opposed to a full time hobby.

 

Yep.   I don't see much changing at all.    The restrictions wont be much harder than they are now.   Rules observance wont change at all.    Against a backdrop of a possible exponential spread.   Maybe it will happen.   Maybe it wont.    I just don't see the likely public observance being enough to suppress it if if gets as bad as suggested.

[frankblack]

21 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

So not maximum. Water cannons? Clubbing? Maybe knees on throats?

 

No not maximum except where there are mass gatherings such as marches against the rules.  Those usually attract your rent a mob anarchists.

[frankblack]

18 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Scary how some people think like. 

 

I know - if only the halfwits had followed the rules we wouldn't be back here again.

[spirt of 98]

34 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

So if we follow the rules we will save all those people (most of them) dying with serious and multiple underlying conditions?

We won’t save everyone of the predicted 200 Covid death a day but we will save a lot. 
 

what about the one who might live another 5,10,15, 20 years should they die to so you. An be a selfish c u next Tuesday and go to the pub etc? 

 

[spirt of 98]

43 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Vast majority of Covid-19 deaths were going to die anyway, maybe not quite as quickly but most had comorbidities.

Sorry if that sounds crass.

What about the people who would have lived another 20 years just a case of nae luck chief big Graygo needs his night out.

[TheOak88]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I know - if only the halfwits had followed the rules we wouldn't be back here again.

 

Possibly true. 

 

I do still find it scary how easily some people are willing to give up their liberty and hand it over to politicians. Maybe it’s more a generational thing tho. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Possibly true. 

 

I do still find it scary how easily some people are willing to give up their liberty and hand it over to politicians. Maybe it’s more a generational thing tho. 

 

Just a little bit of short term sacrifice for long term gain.

[spirt of 98]

4 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Possibly true. 

 

I do still find it scary how easily some people are willing to give up their liberty and hand it over to politicians. Maybe it’s more a generational thing tho. 

And that right there is the problem in the UK people are too bothered about themselves giving up their rights. Too short sighted to think of others. 
 

Article 2 of the Human Rights Act 1998 provides everyone the right to life and it is the governments duty to protect this right. 
 

But hey let ignore that cause you got the right not to wear a mask. 
 

One thing I’ve noticed during the pandemic is how selfish most of us really are deep down. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by spirt of 98

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, spirt of 98 said:

And that right there is the problem in the UK people are too bothered about themselves giving up their rights. Too short sighted to think of others. 
 

Article 2 of the Human Rights Act 1998 provides everyone the right to life and it is the governments duty to protect this right. 
 

But hey let ignore that cause you got the right not to wear a mask. 
 

One thing I’ve noticed during the pandemic is how selfish most of us really are deep down. 

 

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

What about the people who would have lived another 20 years just a case of nae luck chief big Graygo needs his night out.

 

Big Graygo hasn't had a night out since this started and it'll probably be a long time before he has his next one.

 

Covid is not killing off many people who have illnesses that would see them living another 20 years, last I saw the average age was over 80.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8470843/The-average-Covid-19-victim-OLDER-age-people-usually-die-Scotland.html

Edited September 21, 2020 by graygo

[Swanny17]

51 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Vast majority of Covid-19 deaths were going to die anyway, maybe not quite as quickly but most had comorbidities.

Sorry if that sounds crass.

I think it’s fair to say that 100% of COVID-19 deaths were going to die anyway. Perhaps just not nearly so soon. 

[Taffin]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No not maximum except where there are mass gatherings such as marches against the rules.  Those usually attract your rent a mob anarchists.

 

It's quite strong to be after maximum force for anything against a state's own civilians. Not many States would even consider that.

[TheOak88]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Just a little bit of short term sacrifice for long term gain.

 

We have no idea how short term it is, let’s be honest. Just buying time hoping for a miracle vaccine really, could be 6 months, could be 6 years. 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

I think it’s fair to say that 100% of COVID-19 deaths were going to die anyway. Perhaps just not nearly so soon. 

Very true, in fact the average age of people dying with Covid is actually above the average life expectancy in this country.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

This is just a reinforcement of restrictions rather than a lockdown.    There's still going to be virtually as much daily activity and interactions as there has been recently.    No widespread shutdown of workplaces.   No furlough and self employed support.   Other than scheduled breaks,  no school closures.    Largely,  the majority part of daily life carrying on as 'normal'.    Likely to be the beginning of a 6 month programme of restrictions + hoping for the best.

 

You would need to have just disembarked from a unicorn that flew in from Fantasy Island to expect public observance to rules and personal responsibility requests to reach anywhere near what is required.    Arguments about the rights & wrongs of what we're told to do aside,   the appetite to observe the rules simply isn't there.    For a variety of reasons,  the manager has lost the dressing room.

 

It would be fantastic if they've badly miscalculated and over-reacted.   Really fantastic.    What if they haven't though?    Does anyone expect a sufficient effort from the public?    

 

It all went down hill as soon as we stopped clapping for the NHS.

 

I say that not fully in jest. Not only did everyone noticeably relax after we stopped doing that, it gave us the faulty impression that it was all over bar the shouting. The weekly clap also provided some sort of cohesion that we were all in this together, a cohesion that is now considerably weakened.

 

Purely food for thought, by the way.

Edited September 21, 2020 by redjambo

[Back to 2005]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Just a little bit of short term sacrifice for long term gain.

Short term? 7 months and they are talking about another 6. But yeah if we all do as we are told the virus will magically disappear. 

Sorry but you are getting taken for a ride. 

 

[Robbofan99]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Just a little bit of short term sacrifice for long term gain.

You hit the nail on the head inadvertently ,  just how long is “ short term” that’s the big problem 

[Back to 2005]

29 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No not maximum except where there are mass gatherings such as marches against the rules.  Those usually attract your rent a mob anarchists.

People have the right to protest. Otherwise what sort of a country are we living in?

[Robbofan99]

2 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Short term? 7 months and they are talking about another 6. But yeah if we all do as we are told the virus will magically disappear. 

Sorry but you are getting taken for a ride. 

 

Exactly . He’s actually quite naive to even think that . The virus will not magically disappear but we can change our response to it ? 

[Back to 2005]

If only there had been a coronavirus before we would know how best to get through one...

[Francis Albert]

24 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No not maximum except where there are mass gatherings such as marches against the rules.  Those usually attract your rent a mob anarchists.

Sorry are you saying machine guns etc are ok in these cases?.

And presumably by the same logic in ABM marches?

[Robbofan99]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It all went down hill as soon as we stopped clapping for the NHS.

 

I say that not fully in jest. Not only did everyone noticeably relax after we stopped doing that, it gave us the faulty impression that it was all over bar the shouting. The weekly clap also provided some sort of cohesion that we were all in this together, a cohesion that is now considerably weakened.

 

Purely food for thought, by the way.

You usually write some thought provoking intelligent well researched postings but that’s fairly la la land ! 😂😂

[1874robbo]

3 hours ago, westbow said:

Unfortunately, I cannot see the last part happening. Self employed are not a priority issue for any government it seems. Not enough votes.

Every self employed tradesman I know has actually been better off during all of this.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

59 minutes ago, Victorian said:

This is just a reinforcement of restrictions rather than a lockdown.    There's still going to be virtually as much daily activity and interactions as there has been recently.    No widespread shutdown of workplaces.   No furlough and self employed support.   Other than scheduled breaks,  no school closures.    Largely,  the majority part of daily life carrying on as 'normal'.

 

correct - boris needs to be seen to be concerned and taking action etc while in reality fundamentally ploughing-on with opening-up

 

if the public don’t comply (predicted by the government early doors) well that’s a shame - bit like our overindulgence of sugar, alcohol etc

 

that’s the way it’s heading despite what’s being said - might change but it hasn’t yet

 

not sure about Scotland tho - wee Jimmy’s determined to save us all at unlimited cost

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Back to 2005]

7 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Exactly . He’s actually quite naive to even think that . The virus will not magically disappear but we can change our response to it ? 

The politicians would have to admit they got it completely wrong or the people will have to rise against what is going on. Unfortunately a lot of people just get taken in  by what they hear in the MSM and dont even think to question it.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

You usually write some thought provoking intelligent well researched postings but that’s fairly la la land ! 😂😂

 

Thank you for the compliment and the non-compliment!

 

Social cohesion is very important in any society. If folk can be encouraged to act for society as a whole more than for themselves then society will generally prosper. I think we generally did experience that cohesion during national lockdown but I'm not sure we have it now to the same extent and that doesn't augur well for the success of any restrictions. I think that the NHS claps were a good way of demonstrating and manifesting the former cohesion and our collective effort to beat this virus, and so I thought that might make a good example.

 

Of course, such cohesion often filters down from the top (Jacinda Ardern in NZ is perhaps a good example of this), and in that respect I don't think Boris and his cohorts are doing a tremendously good job.

 

Anyway, sorry to have disappointed you. I'll stick to my graphs from now on.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

57 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

You don't need to stand in a group to do that, but I'm sure you knew that already.

Agreed. I posted before seeing the pictures, with memories of police on horses with megaphones shouting at isolated people on park.benches and lying on the grass in large parks. Gathering in large numbers without social distancing is not on.

Shooting or clubbing them or using water cannons as has been suggested would be s wee bit OTT. IMO.

 

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. I posted before seeing the pictures, with memories of police on horses with megaphones shouting at isolated people on park.benches and lying on the grass in large parks. Gathering in large numbers without social distancing is not on.

Shooting or clubbing them or using water cannons as has been suggested would be s wee bit OTT. IMO.

 

 

Shooting and clubbing were your words.

[1874robbo]

34 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

We won’t save everyone of the predicted 200 Covid death a day but we will save a lot. 
 

what about the one who might live another 5,10,15, 20 years should they die to so you. An be a selfish c u next Tuesday and go to the pub etc? 

 

What about all the people who will take their own lives due to losing their jobs and livelihoods or the people who without their proper mental health support will also possibly commit suicide!! Do we just class them as collateral damage?

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Shooting and clubbing were your words.

Maximum force were yours.

[frankblack]

19 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

People have the right to protest. Otherwise what sort of a country are we living in?

 

Other people have the right to remain healthy.

 

Anarchists and political agitators don't have the right to ride all over social distancing regulations.

[TheOak88]

24 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

And that right there is the problem in the UK people are too bothered about themselves giving up their rights. Too short sighted to think of others. 
 

Article 2 of the Human Rights Act 1998 provides everyone the right to life and it is the governments duty to protect this right. 
 

But hey let ignore that cause you got the right not to wear a mask. 
 

One thing I’ve noticed during the pandemic is how selfish most of us really are deep down. 

 

I do think of others, maybe I just have a more balanced approach to thinking of others. I do think about the elderly who could catch CV and could lead to their death. But I also think about others as well who may be affected by this;

 

The people who who will die from undiagnosed or treated cancers/heart conditions over the next few years.

 

The people who will suffer heavily from mental health issues caused by lockdown, in particular the ones who will end their own lives. 

 

The people who will lose their livelihoods over the next few months, and the turmoil that will cause in their lives such as increased divorce rates, and suicides. 

 

I never mentioned masks in my post, so not sure why you have brought them up and assumed my dislike for them. I am neither here nor there on the mask issue TBH. 

 

I am not keen on the idea the Govt should have the right to tell me if I can see my family or not, if I can see my friends or not, what I am allowed to do in my own home, who I am allowed to have sex with, potentially obstruct me from earning a living. Maybe that makes me selfish in the eyes of some. 

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Other people have the right to remain healthy.

 

Anarchists and political agitators don't have the right to ride all over social distancing regulations.

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Maximum force were yours.

 

Maximum legal force for worst examples I gave.  Tear gas, etc.

[Weakened Offender]

31 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It all went down hill as soon as we stopped clapping for the NHS.

 

I say that not fully in jest. Not only did everyone noticeably relax after we stopped doing that, it gave us the faulty impression that it was all over bar the shouting. The weekly clap also provided some sort of cohesion that we were all in this together, a cohesion that is now considerably weakened.

 

Purely food for thought, by the way.

 

The PMs handling of the Cummings scandal was the turning point. 

[SectionFJambo]

It would be interesting to see the co-morbidities and underlying health conditions broken down.

 

If it's folk with mild Asthma then I think it will concern people more than if it's people with end stage leukaemia's, MND etc. as ultimately Covid is what got those people and not the cause of death. Still not nice but those people may well have died of a bout of flu, cold etc.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Maximum legal force for worst examples I gave.  Tear gas, etc.

Maximum.force against large gatherings is what you said. The word legal and worst have crept in. 

 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Maximum.force against large gatherings is what you said. The word legal and worst have crept in. 

 

 

Sorry to spoil your fun.  I noticed you were itching for an argument and are straw clutching.

[Governor Tarkin]

7 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Don't suppose she said it's all been one big joke and Jambo 4 Eva is all part of the gag and we can all go back to normal getting pissed and fighting on the streets again did she ?

 

We can but hope. 

 

3 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

I'm pretty sure that rule is already in place in Scotland

 

(Edit- the grandparents thing, not the removal of children from families)

 

I hope it is. I plan to carry on regardless out of necessity.

 

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Best advice is to look after yourself as best you can and respect others as much as you can 👍

 

 

Amen. 👍

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Other people have the right to remain healthy.

 

Anarchists and political agitators don't have the right to ride all over social distancing regulations.

 

Do we have a right to remain healthy?

 

If so, who's responsibility is it to ensure it? Is it time limited for age?

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, SectionFJambo said:

It would be interesting to see the co-morbidities and underlying health conditions broken down.

 

If it's folk with mild Asthma then I think it will concern people more than if it's people with end stage leukaemia's, MND etc. as ultimately Covid is what got those people and not the cause of death. Still not nice but those people may well have died of a bout of flu, cold etc.

 

Diabetes has been mentioned before, along with other blood conditions.

[JFK-1]

So the government is now increasing the alert level to level 4 which means transmission is "high or rising exponentially". The scientists are predicting a potential 50,000 new cases a day by mid October without further action.

Think about the pressure on the NHS of that before whining about mental health and cancelled surgeries. This is a war against an invisible enemy that isn't going to be won anytime soon.

[Robbofan99]

23 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Thank you for the compliment and the non-compliment!

 

Social cohesion is very important in any society. If folk can be encouraged to act for society as a whole more than for themselves then society will generally prosper. I think we generally did experience that cohesion during national lockdown but I'm not sure we have it now to the same extent and that doesn't augur well for the success of any restrictions. I think that the NHS claps were a good way of demonstrating and manifesting the former cohesion and our collective effort to beat this virus, and so I thought that might make a good example.

 

Of course, such cohesion often filters down from the top (Jacinda Ardern in NZ is perhaps a good example of this), and in that respect I don't think Boris and his cohorts are doing a tremendously good job.

 

Anyway, sorry to have disappointed you. I'll stick to my graphs from now on.

 

 

👍👍👍😂

[frankblack]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Do we have a right to remain healthy?

 

If so, who's responsibility is it to ensure it? Is it time limited for age?

 

We have a right to expect a clampdown on the halfwits recklessly flaunting the rules, who are the likely cause.

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

So the government is now increasing the alert level to level 4 which means transmission is "high or rising exponentially". The scientists are predicting a potential 50,000 new cases a day by mid October without further action.

Think about the pressure on the NHS of that before whining about mental health and cancelled surgeries. This is a war against an invisible enemy that isn't going to be won anytime soon.

Whining???? Are mental health and cancelled surgeries and cancelled cancer appointments not important now???

 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

That's one of the best posts on this thread.

 

It isn't really.  It is full of assumptions that people with blood conditions will die imminently.  A lot of these are maintained with medication.

[The Internet]

6 minutes ago, SectionFJambo said:

It would be interesting to see the co-morbidities and underlying health conditions broken down.

 

If it's folk with mild Asthma then I think it will concern people more than if it's people with end stage leukaemia's, MND etc. as ultimately Covid is what got those people and not the cause of death. Still not nice but those people may well have died of a bout of flu, cold etc.

 

There's been so little of this type of data available, perhaps for understandable reasons, but it would be good to know more details of the where when and how people have picked this up along with as you say the type of 'underlying health conditions' that are most at risk. There must be a decent sample size now for things like diabetes and asthma. 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

We have a right to expect a clampdown on the halfwits recklessly flaunting the rules, who are the likely cause.

 

👍 But that wasn't my question. I think some people do think we have a right to remain healthy these days. It's a big issue regardless of Covid but even more so now. The idea of a right surely can only exist if it can be protected, given that we all die, I'm not sure it can really be a right.