.....The official Ross County v Heart of Midlothian match day thread .....

[Leveins Battalion]

What do folk expect?

 

Levein neglected the two most important areas of our team for years,the engine room and the Striker department.Added to that we have had no wingers,changed goalie every week,had a huge squad of dross that Stendel has sussed out in 2 training sessions.

 

I cant see us staying up,we are too far gone in the mind.Ann Budge has already stated she left Levein in charge for far far too long.

 

Stendels philosophy is admirable,and in the long term I hope it comes to fruition,but when are up against old pros like Tommy Docherty and Hamilton's gaffer we need more than some Geggenpressing.We need fight and balls,something this team sadly lacks.

[Boris5115]

17 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

What do folk expect?

 

Levein neglected the two most important areas of our team for years,the engine room and the Striker department.Added to that we have had no wingers,changed goalie every week,had a huge squad of dross that Stendel has sussed out in 2 training sessions.

 

I cant see us staying up,we are too far gone in the mind.Ann Budge has already stated she left Levein in charge for far far too long.

 

Stendels philosophy is admirable,and in the long term I hope it comes to fruition,but when are up against old pros like Tommy Docherty and Hamilton's gaffer we need more than some Geggenpressing.We need fight and balls,something this team sadly lacks.

And to think that the man who caused this situation is still drawing a wage sickens me. He should be hounded out the door. I even wonder if he is still attending games being the big Hearts man that he is. 

[Hearts1975]

12 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said:

What do folk expect?

 

Levein neglected the two most important areas of our team for years,the engine room and the Striker department.Added to that we have had no wingers,changed goalie every week,had a huge squad of dross that Stendel has sussed out in 2 training sessions.

 

I cant see us staying up,we are too far gone in the mind.Ann Budge has already stated she left Levein in charge for far far too long.

 

Stendels philosophy is admirable,and in the long term I hope it comes to fruition,but when are up against old pros like Tommy Docherty and Hamilton's gaffer we need more than some Geggenpressing.We need fight and balls,something this team sadly lacks.

When it’s been drilled into you to take no chances, stay in position, don’t get out of position etc then the geggenpress system is exactly the polar opposite. The same system that Stendel is trying to teach the players.

 

Its going to take time and is no overnight fix. We are struggling when the opposition get in our faces as the players need to be quicker with their thought processes and move the ball. I said this earlier, but it will take time.

 

hopefully we get a few more in this month 

 

If ever Ann needed to put some dosh on the table that time is now. She needs to back Stendel and get some money on the table. We could really do with 2 more strikers and an attacking mid. 3 players who can score and create goals. That will see us through to the summer and keep us in this division 

 

Thats why when we are struggling for funds and possibly pushing the boat out so far that we still have the likes of CL/AM slithering around taking salaries from the club. Absolutely disgusting in my view. 

 

Dont even tell me that that they will both be trying to help Stendel with recruitment or whatever else they are doing in the background. I just don’t believe this is the case at all. 

[soonbe110]

6 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

William Hill and Bet Victor both have us Joint favourites with Hamilton to finish bottom.

 

Not disputing that. FA’s point was that we are ‘odds on’ to go down. Do Hills or Bet Victor have us at those sort of prices to go down. 

[Captain Canada]

7 hours ago, Spoleto said:

Did you read the earlier posts that said we were better when Uche came on?

 

Plus, is he not coming back from an injury which ruled him out of the last game?

 

 

I did, but "better" still resulted in us not scoring any goals with him on the pitch. I think his attitude is great, but as a striker, he isn't a goal threat and we desperately need to start scoring goals in the league. 

 

His career stats would suggest he is never going to be prolific. 

[The Treasurer]

Only positives from last night, a clean sheet and one point closer to those directly above us.

No-one had a particularly bad game but no-one had a particularly good one either.

Defensively they all did their jobs reasonably but we badly missed the attacking abilities of Clare and Hickey and the drive of Smith

[ScandinavianJambo]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It very well could be down to Levein, or at least to some degree, I'm not expert enough to say for sure. Because in the past decade all of the City clubs have struggled as often as not and 3 of them were relegated.

 

Levein wasn't managing all of them.

 

But I have come to believe that a manager can make a significant difference and I would use Aberdeen as an example to illustrate that.

In the four seasons prior to McInnes taking over they registered three consecutive 9th place finishes then an 8th place finish in the final season before he took over. Since he took over the worst they have had was the 4th they finished last season. I presume McInnes made the difference.

In general historically we usually expect that putting the OF aside Hearts, Aberdeen, hubz and maybe Dundee united should take the next 4 places below the OF most of the time. But in reality that doesn't happen much or at least not recently it hasn't.

 

2009/10 season

DU 3rd

hubz 4th

Hearts 6th

Aberdeen 9th 

2010/11 season.

Hearts 3rd

Dundee Utd 4th

Aberdeen 9th

hubz 10th

 

2011/12 season.

DU 4th

Hearts 5th

Aberdeen 9th

hubz 11th

 

2012/13 season.

DU 6th

hubz 7th

Aberdeen 8th

Hearts 10th

 

2013/14 season

Aberdeen 3rd

DU 4th

hubz 11th (relegated)

Hearts 12th (relegated)

 

2014/15 season

Aberdeen 2nd

DU 5th

Hearts and hubz both in the Championship

 

2015/16 season

Aberdeen 2nd

Hearts 3rd

DU 12th (relegated)

hubz in Championship

 

2016/17

Aberdeen 2nd

Hearts 5th

DU (championship)

hubz (championship)

 

2017/18

Aberdeen 2nd

hubz 4th

Hearts 6th

DU (championship)

 

2018/19

Aberdeen 4th

hubz 5th

Hearts 6th

DU (championship)

 

Take note from those last 10 seasons in none of them did all 4 of the non OF city clubs finish in the top 6. The best result for them came in just 4 of the 10 seasons when 3 of the City clubs finished in the top 6.

In 2012/13 DU alone finished in the top 6 and only barely, in 6th place.

This represents a pattern over the past decade indicating that the city clubs and their budget advantage is no longer proving to be much of an advantage. I suspect because there is so little money in the Scottish game that with the passing seasons it's become a leveler.

With everyone shopping in pretty much the same store which is league 1/2 freebies there is little between them. Being able to pay a freebie a bit more than the provincials just doesn't make that much of a difference.

Freebies are freebies for a reason and the only consistent aspect of them is that they aren't greatly technically gifted and if they do have any technical proficiency at all it's not consistent. And not good enough to easily overcome the now standard Scottish park the bus strategy.

In that decade Aberdeen have had the most consistent run of top 6 finishes and that's only since McInnes took over there. That suggests to me that to get any kind of consistent top 6 run in this league it takes a specific kind of manager who simply knows how to grind out points ugly or otherwise with these freebies.

 

McInnes has registered not just a top 6 finish but a Euro spot finish in the past 6 of those seasons. Every season since he took over in fact when they had just registered a run of 4 consecutive seasons where their best finish was 8th.

It looks to me as if McInnes is the best manager out there for maintaining a regular top 6 finish in the current Scottish environment. Even now they're lying in 4th while 4 points behind Motherwell but 8 ahead of 5th placed Livi.

They don't play pretty football but what's the overall preference? Pretty football or consistent Euro spot finishes? And bizarrely the Aberdeen fans hate him while he has consistently delivered the best they can realistically expect.

 

Will possibly hound him out of there with their mindless abuse. And I hope the total morons do. 

Hearts need to get lucky with the correct manager for the current Scottish financial climate and game as Aberdeen did with McInnes.

 

Stendel might be a manager who can deliver I don't know. But I think it's at a point where everyone should stop thinking that a budget advantage will be or even should be a clincher even just most of the time.

It's obviously not and I don't think that's likely to change anytime soon. 

Great post! 👍

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, The Treasurer said:

Only positives from last night, a clean sheet and one point closer to those directly above us.

No-one had a particularly bad game but no-one had a particularly good one either.

Defensively they all did their jobs reasonably but we badly missed the attacking abilities of Clare and Hickey and the drive of Smith

Asking you because you were obviously at the game. I know Damour is gash but would a third central midfielder such as Damour have made a difference, at the expense of one of our more attacking players? It sounded like Ross County were just strolling through the midfield in the first half.

[The Treasurer]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Asking you because you were obviously at the game. I know Damour is gash but would a third central midfielder such as Damour have made a difference, at the expense of one of our more attacking players? It sounded like Ross County were just strolling through the midfield in the first half.

The midfield was getting over run at times, so it could have been an option.

We didn't seem to have one player as the main attacker, Washington and Donis were playing wide and Naismith kept going deeper to help out in midfield

[GinRummy]

Just now, The Treasurer said:

The midfield was getting over run at times, so it could have been an option.

We didn't seem to have one player as the main attacker, Washington and Donis were playing wide and Naismith kept going deeper to help out in midfield

Thanks, maybe be better when Smith is back. I know we're screaming out for width but I'm wondering if we're strong enough in the middle to afford it on both sides. If we're playing Irving, who has good games and bad, I feel we need someone better than Bozanic beside him.

[The Treasurer]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Thanks, maybe be better when Smith is back. I know we're screaming out for width but I'm wondering if we're strong enough in the middle to afford it on both sides. If we're playing Irving, who has good games and bad, I feel we need someone better than Bozanic beside him.

Agreed.

We already had Moore playing wide so the other two didn't both need to drift to the wings.

Irvine started well but was getting caught in possession as he didn't have options looking for a pass

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 hours ago, Coburg Hearts said:

Interesting stats.

Interesting but not true.  Boyce has been far more prolific at his last 2 clubs, Ross County and Burton.  Washington has never been prolific anywhere.

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Agreed.

We already had Moore playing wide so the other two didn't both need to drift to the wings.

Irvine started well but was getting caught in possession as he didn't have options looking for a pass

Cheers for info, bud.

[i8hibsh]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Interesting but not true.  Boyce has been far more prolific at his last 2 clubs, Ross County and Burton.  Washington has never been prolific anywhere.

 

How long do we have no goals Washington on our books?

[The Old Tolbooth]

10 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Stop being all even handed and pragmatic...get your hysterics on! 🧐

 

Some of the comments I've seen are just plain stupid mate, we've only made one signing so far and he made his debut last night after a month on the sidelines, were folk really expecting miracles? It's still the same players that Levein left us with that he's trying so hard to get a better tune out of, and he's getting somewhere too as there's a marked difference in the players and their attitude, we missed Clare and Smith last night big time though, it was a very good point with a patched up side. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Some of the comments I've seen are just plain stupid mate, we've only made one signing so far and he made his debut last night after a month on the sidelines, were folk really expecting miracles? It's still the same players that Levein left us with that he's trying so hard to get a better tune out of, and he's getting somewhere too as there's a marked difference in the players and their attitude, we missed Clare and Smith last night big time though, it was a very good point with a patched up side. 

👍

[Prof]

12 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Some of the comments I've seen are just plain stupid mate, we've only made one signing so far and he made his debut last night after a month on the sidelines, were folk really expecting miracles? It's still the same players that Levein left us with that he's trying so hard to get a better tune out of, and he's getting somewhere too as there's a marked difference in the players and their attitude, we missed Clare and Smith last night big time though, it was a very good point with a patched up side. 

Agreed, but that won’t stop the doom mongers on here.

[TyphoonJambo]

14 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Some of the comments I've seen are just plain stupid mate, we've only made one signing so far and he made his debut last night after a month on the sidelines, were folk really expecting miracles? It's still the same players that Levein left us with that he's trying so hard to get a better tune out of, and he's getting somewhere too as there's a marked difference in the players and their attitude, we missed Clare and Smith last night big time though, it was a very good point with a patched up side. 

Mods, get this guy binned, there's no room for this blatant positivity on here. 

Good post otherwise 

[The Old Tolbooth]

2 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Mods, get this guy binned, there's no room for this blatant positivity on here. 

Good post otherwise 

 

I forgot that Meshino and Hickey were also out too, it really was a patched up side. 

[1874robbo]

19 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Some of the comments I've seen are just plain stupid mate, we've only made one signing so far and he made his debut last night after a month on the sidelines, were folk really expecting miracles? It's still the same players that Levein left us with that he's trying so hard to get a better tune out of, and he's getting somewhere too as there's a marked difference in the players and their attitude, we missed Clare and Smith last night big time though, it was a very good point with a patched up side. 

Missing Hickey also.

[Debut 4]

4 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It very well could be down to Levein, or at least to some degree, I'm not expert enough to say for sure. Because in the past decade all of the City clubs have struggled as often as not and 3 of them were relegated.

 

Levein wasn't managing all of them.

 

But I have come to believe that a manager can make a significant difference and I would use Aberdeen as an example to illustrate that.

In the four seasons prior to McInnes taking over they registered three consecutive 9th place finishes then an 8th place finish in the final season before he took over. Since he took over the worst they have had was the 4th they finished last season. I presume McInnes made the difference.

In general historically we usually expect that putting the OF aside Hearts, Aberdeen, hubz and maybe Dundee united should take the next 4 places below the OF most of the time. But in reality that doesn't happen much or at least not recently it hasn't.

 

2009/10 season

DU 3rd

hubz 4th

Hearts 6th

Aberdeen 9th 

2010/11 season.

Hearts 3rd

Dundee Utd 4th

Aberdeen 9th

hubz 10th

 

2011/12 season.

DU 4th

Hearts 5th

Aberdeen 9th

hubz 11th

 

2012/13 season.

DU 6th

hubz 7th

Aberdeen 8th

Hearts 10th

 

2013/14 season

Aberdeen 3rd

DU 4th

hubz 11th (relegated)

Hearts 12th (relegated)

 

2014/15 season

Aberdeen 2nd

DU 5th

Hearts and hubz both in the Championship

 

2015/16 season

Aberdeen 2nd

Hearts 3rd

DU 12th (relegated)

hubz in Championship

 

2016/17

Aberdeen 2nd

Hearts 5th

DU (championship)

hubz (championship)

 

2017/18

Aberdeen 2nd

hubz 4th

Hearts 6th

DU (championship)

 

2018/19

Aberdeen 4th

hubz 5th

Hearts 6th

DU (championship)

 

Take note from those last 10 seasons in none of them did all 4 of the non OF city clubs finish in the top 6. The best result for them came in just 4 of the 10 seasons when 3 of the City clubs finished in the top 6.

In 2012/13 DU alone finished in the top 6 and only barely, in 6th place.

This represents a pattern over the past decade indicating that the city clubs and their budget advantage is no longer proving to be much of an advantage. I suspect because there is so little money in the Scottish game that with the passing seasons it's become a leveler.

With everyone shopping in pretty much the same store which is league 1/2 freebies there is little between them. Being able to pay a freebie a bit more than the provincials just doesn't make that much of a difference.

Freebies are freebies for a reason and the only consistent aspect of them is that they aren't greatly technically gifted and if they do have any technical proficiency at all it's not consistent. And not good enough to easily overcome the now standard Scottish park the bus strategy.

In that decade Aberdeen have had the most consistent run of top 6 finishes and that's only since McInnes took over there. That suggests to me that to get any kind of consistent top 6 run in this league it takes a specific kind of manager who simply knows how to grind out points ugly or otherwise with these freebies.

 

McInnes has registered not just a top 6 finish but a Euro spot finish in the past 6 of those seasons. Every season since he took over in fact when they had just registered a run of 4 consecutive seasons where their best finish was 8th.

It looks to me as if McInnes is the best manager out there for maintaining a regular top 6 finish in the current Scottish environment. Even now they're lying in 4th while 4 points behind Motherwell but 8 ahead of 5th placed Livi.

They don't play pretty football but what's the overall preference? Pretty football or consistent Euro spot finishes? And bizarrely the Aberdeen fans hate him while he has consistently delivered the best they can realistically expect.

 

Will possibly hound him out of there with their mindless abuse. And I hope the total morons do. 

Hearts need to get lucky with the correct manager for the current Scottish financial climate and game as Aberdeen did with McInnes.

 

Stendel might be a manager who can deliver I don't know. But I think it's at a point where everyone should stop thinking that a budget advantage will be or even should be a clincher even just most of the time.

It's obviously not and I don't think that's likely to change anytime soon. 

In short, it’s about decision making and hiring the correct person to lead the club. 
 

Hearts past inspires too but you still need the right manager to bring everything together...use of budget, management, tapping into the mentality of a club etc...

 

Alex MacDonald sparked Hearts again but we didn’t waste time when we knew his days were up. Almost instantly Joe Jordan tookHearts back up again. 
 

We had a terrible spell between then and JJ but he was another good appointment and we improved. Then Levein 2000. Same thing again.

 

We waited too long to change this time and we are suffering. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

3 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Missing Hickey also.

 

And Meshino 

[Bauld]

If we keep picking up a point away from home and win our homes games we will be fine.

 

We had plenty of chances to score last night but failed to hit the net. Far worse would have been no chances and riding our luck. 

 

If we gain some form at home and start picking up a consist 3 points from those home games we will very quickly catch the pack.

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

And Meshino 

Correct, so potentially a third of our strongest line up.

[Last Laff]

7 hours ago, graygo said:

 

Hamilton? The Hamilton that are second bottom of the league? That Hamilton?

 

Watch for Kilmarnock getting sucked into it if we can pick up some wins.

Yes Hamilton, lost in the last min at Parkhead, 1-0 at Pittodrie, drew at Livi, beat us and in in Motherwell away.  That’s very good form for the team you thinking may come bottom. 
 

“if” we can pick up wins and Killie don’t at all.  I can’t see us catching them anytime soon though. 

[Spoleto]

It strikes me that Stendel is suffering from the same issue that Levein and MacPhee suffered from. 

 

Unable to field the same team twice.

 

 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

It strikes me that Stendel is suffering from the same issue that Levein and MacPhee suffered from. 

 

Unable to field the same team twice.

 

 

Aye having to field players with shite ability and shite mentality.

[JFK-1]

14 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

In short, it’s about decision making and hiring the correct person to lead the club. 
 

Hearts past inspires too but you still need the right manager to bring everything together...use of budget, management, tapping into the mentality of a club etc...

 

Alex MacDonald sparked Hearts again but we didn’t waste time when we knew his days were up. Almost instantly Joe Jordan tookHearts back up again. 
 

We had a terrible spell between then and JJ but he was another good appointment and we improved. Then Levein 2000. Same thing again.

 

We waited too long to change this time and we are suffering. 

 

Given the option I would have taken McInnes. He went to the sheep when they had just had 3 consecutive 9th place finishes then an 8th place and immediately turned it around.

In his first season he got a 3rd place then 4 consecutive 2nd place finishes and last season a 4th place. Came in and gave them six straight Euro spot finishes and a league cup win.

 

OF aside that's an acceptable record for any other team in the league. Yet I feel Aberdeen fans may drive him out. I have no idea what else they realistically expect.

 

Win the league?. Unrealistic in the current financial state of the Scottish game. No team of freebies is going to win the league against their multi million pound squads.

And I feel they may drive him out because their bile is non stop and goes way beyond acceptable complaint about anything.
 

Quote

Mcinnes has now, for me, eroded ALL credit he built up

Thats it done and any form of legacy he had is ****ing gone

GO NOW YOU C*%T

 

Quote

Just bin the c*%t ffs Cormack. Pull the *** pin.

 

Quote

Hun DMC sleekit c*%t will be bumming up his fellow weegie press pals, the ****ing easy ride he's had from them and milne is shocking,

 

And that's not a minority that's commonplace. I wouldn't take that from a crowd I had given the best they can realistically expect knowing it can't realistically get any better than it already is. Their stupidity is mind boggling and their poisonous bile sickening.

Hopefully Stendel works out but if not I think he would be the best man for the job.

[Rogue Daddy]

 

24 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

It strikes me that Stendel is suffering from the same issue that Levein and MacPhee suffered from. 

 

Unable to field the same team twice.

 

 

 

Spot on!... although changing the midfield personnel every single week is something that goes back to Robbie Neilson! Never understood that... unless you have the quality in-depth like Liverpool or Barcelona, rotation doesn't work for me! When was the last time Hearts played the same starting 11 two games running? Playing with the same players is the only way to get consistency (apart from injuries of course).

 

There's a couple of things i like about Stendel - I know we are shouting for signings (and we need them!) but he appears to be very selective. This is a fresh approach compared to the 'scatter-gun effect' of CL and basically signing players for the sake of signing them!

 

Also, the fact that DS wants our squad trimmed drastically...  this will definitely benefit consistency.

 

We have to keep faith. We really need a big performance to get a bit of confidence flowing... a win (!?) or a draw on Sunday will help big-time! We should have beaten Aberdeen... and I don't think we were that bad against Shellick also - so they have it in them.

 

Need a goal scorer though... and quick!

[The Old Tolbooth]

45 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

It strikes me that Stendel is suffering from the same issue that Levein and MacPhee suffered from. 

 

Unable to field the same team twice.

 

 

 

Deary me, we know you'd still love to have your heroes in charge plummeting towards the Championship rather than trying to do something about it, we get that, give it a rest though ffs! Stendel has been in the door 5 minutes and you've written him off already, he's signed one player, he's still operating with the utter dross that loser Levein left him with, what did you expect to happen? Until he gets his own players in, we're going to huff and puff quite a lot, but at least now we have some hope, whereas under Levein, we had absolutely zero hope! 

[Hearts007]

3 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Deary me, we know you'd still love to have your heroes in charge plummeting towards the Championship rather than trying to do something about it, we get that, give it a rest though ffs! Stendel has been in the door 5 minutes and you've written him off already, he's signed one player, he's still operating with the utter dross that loser Levein left him with, what did you expect to happen? Until he gets his own players in, we're going to huff and puff quite a lot, but at least now we have some hope, whereas under Levein, we had absolutely zero hope! 

yep

[Hearts1975]

1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

It strikes me that Stendel is suffering from the same issue that Levein and MacPhee suffered from. 

 

Unable to field the same team twice.

 

 

Stendel is suffering from having to try and coach some of the utter dross that Levein and Macphee signed.

 

You shouldn’t be even comparing the two. In Football terms I really can’t think of anyone who is at the same level as Levein and Macphee. Sad but true.

 

Levein signed these same players you refer too. But he suffered right enough.

 

He’s made us all suffer a lot more than what he has ever suffered. That’s for sure 😖

[Hearts1975]

16 minutes ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Deary me, we know you'd still love to have your heroes in charge plummeting towards the Championship rather than trying to do something about it, we get that, give it a rest though ffs! Stendel has been in the door 5 minutes and you've written him off already, he's signed one player, he's still operating with the utter dross that loser Levein left him with, what did you expect to happen? Until he gets his own players in, we're going to huff and puff quite a lot, but at least now we have some hope, whereas under Levein, we had absolutely zero hope! 

Sad but very very true. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Stendel is suffering from having to try and coach some of the utter dross that Levein and Macphee signed.

 

You shouldn’t be even comparing the two. In Football terms I really can’t think of anyone who is at the same level as Levein and Macphee. Sad but true.

 

Levein signed these same players you refer too. But he suffered right enough.

 

He’s made us all suffer a lot more than what he has ever suffered. That’s for sure 😖

Sadly he receives payment for the suffering.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Aye having to field players with shite ability and shite mentality.

[Hearts1975]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Sadly he receives payment for the suffering.

Too true. Honestly, it makes me just want to spew up. How anyone can even try and defend him is criminal at best. 

[colinmaroon]

12 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

@colinmaroon, is this true?

 

 

Not likely as He created time.

[SectionDJambo]

Just been reading the Evening News report. Bad though our situation is, their claim that Hearts have gone over 300 days without an away win has a wee flaw. We beat Hibs at Easter Road in September. A fair bit of column inches given to this claim too.

Ross County away isn't an easy fixture for us at present. Players missing, others just back from long lay offs and a general poor record up there. Other teams, better than us, have failed to win up there.

That said, our away form has to improve drastically if we are to pull clear of the mess we are in. It's still well within our grasp, but only if we get it together very soon.

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Some of the comments I've seen are just plain stupid mate, we've only made one signing so far and he made his debut last night after a month on the sidelines, were folk really expecting miracles? It's still the same players that Levein left us with that he's trying so hard to get a better tune out of, and he's getting somewhere too as there's a marked difference in the players and their attitude, we missed Clare and Smith last night big time though, it was a very good point with a patched up side. 

Agree with everything you said in both your posts!

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Stendel is suffering from having to try and coach some of the utter dross that Levein and Macphee signed.

 

You shouldn’t be even comparing the two. In Football terms I really can’t think of anyone who is at the same level as Levein and Macphee. Sad but true.

 

Levein signed these same players you refer too. But he suffered right enough.

 

He’s made us all suffer a lot more than what he has ever suffered. That’s for sure 😖

 

Get a grip ffs.

 

Levein was poor in that last spell as manager, McPhee had a record in his short time as coach that wasn't even as bad as Stendel's. 

Leaving that aside, CL's "level" included being his country's national team manager and McPhee is the current Northern Ireland assistant manager. 

 

Levein has left us in a mess but stop trying to rewrite history.

[The Treasurer]

2 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Just been reading the Evening News report. Bad though our situation is, their claim that Hearts have gone over 300 days without an away win has a wee flaw. We beat Hibs at Easter Road in September. A fair bit of column inches given to this claim too.

Ross County away isn't an easy fixture for us at present. Players missing, others just back from long lay offs and a general poor record up there. Other teams, better than us, have failed to win up there.

That said, our away form has to improve drastically if we are to pull clear of the mess we are in. It's still well within our grasp, but only if we get it together very soon.

They said it was "outside Edinburgh" to get round the fact that we beat their team.

Either way, it's still a shocking statistic

[Bazzas right boot]

9 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

It very well could be down to Levein, or at least to some degree, I'm not expert enough to say for sure. Because in the past decade all of the City clubs have struggled as often as not and 3 of them were relegated.

 

Levein wasn't managing all of them.

 

But I have come to believe that a manager can make a significant difference and I would use Aberdeen as an example to illustrate that.

In the four seasons prior to McInnes taking over they registered three consecutive 9th place finishes then an 8th place finish in the final season before he took over. Since he took over the worst they have had was the 4th they finished last season. I presume McInnes made the difference.

In general historically we usually expect that putting the OF aside Hearts, Aberdeen, hubz and maybe Dundee united should take the next 4 places below the OF most of the time. But in reality that doesn't happen much or at least not recently it hasn't.

 

2009/10 season

DU 3rd

hubz 4th

Hearts 6th

Aberdeen 9th 

2010/11 season.

Hearts 3rd

Dundee Utd 4th

Aberdeen 9th

hubz 10th

 

2011/12 season.

DU 4th

Hearts 5th

Aberdeen 9th

hubz 11th

 

2012/13 season.

DU 6th

hubz 7th

Aberdeen 8th

Hearts 10th

 

2013/14 season

Aberdeen 3rd

DU 4th

hubz 11th (relegated)

Hearts 12th (relegated)

 

2014/15 season

Aberdeen 2nd

DU 5th

Hearts and hubz both in the Championship

 

2015/16 season

Aberdeen 2nd

Hearts 3rd

DU 12th (relegated)

hubz in Championship

 

2016/17

Aberdeen 2nd

Hearts 5th

DU (championship)

hubz (championship)

 

2017/18

Aberdeen 2nd

hubz 4th

Hearts 6th

DU (championship)

 

2018/19

Aberdeen 4th

hubz 5th

Hearts 6th

DU (championship)

 

Take note from those last 10 seasons in none of them did all 4 of the non OF city clubs finish in the top 6. The best result for them came in just 4 of the 10 seasons when 3 of the City clubs finished in the top 6.

In 2012/13 DU alone finished in the top 6 and only barely, in 6th place.

This represents a pattern over the past decade indicating that the city clubs and their budget advantage is no longer proving to be much of an advantage. I suspect because there is so little money in the Scottish game that with the passing seasons it's become a leveler.

With everyone shopping in pretty much the same store which is league 1/2 freebies there is little between them. Being able to pay a freebie a bit more than the provincials just doesn't make that much of a difference.

Freebies are freebies for a reason and the only consistent aspect of them is that they aren't greatly technically gifted and if they do have any technical proficiency at all it's not consistent. And not good enough to easily overcome the now standard Scottish park the bus strategy.

In that decade Aberdeen have had the most consistent run of top 6 finishes and that's only since McInnes took over there. That suggests to me that to get any kind of consistent top 6 run in this league it takes a specific kind of manager who simply knows how to grind out points ugly or otherwise with these freebies.

 

McInnes has registered not just a top 6 finish but a Euro spot finish in the past 6 of those seasons. Every season since he took over in fact when they had just registered a run of 4 consecutive seasons where their best finish was 8th.

It looks to me as if McInnes is the best manager out there for maintaining a regular top 6 finish in the current Scottish environment. Even now they're lying in 4th while 4 points behind Motherwell but 8 ahead of 5th placed Livi.

They don't play pretty football but what's the overall preference? Pretty football or consistent Euro spot finishes? And bizarrely the Aberdeen fans hate him while he has consistently delivered the best they can realistically expect.

 

Will possibly hound him out of there with their mindless abuse. And I hope the total morons do. 

Hearts need to get lucky with the correct manager for the current Scottish financial climate and game as Aberdeen did with McInnes.

 

Stendel might be a manager who can deliver I don't know. But I think it's at a point where everyone should stop thinking that a budget advantage will be or even should be a clincher even just most of the time.

It's obviously not and I don't think that's likely to change anytime soon. 

 

 

Great Post. 

 

I think Aberdeen also benefited from the demise of rangers, hibs, utd and ourselves to rise above the rest and get a head start. 

 

The budget difference, imo is about the core and key players, we, hibs and Aberdeen although in general, we shop in the same same market, we should be able to get 4/5 key players that are better or of better potential than the rest. 

 

Think of guys like Naismith, Washington, Berra, Souttar maybe, Clare Smith and Halkett. 

 

International experience, current internationals and good potential 

 

 

That should see us rise to the top of the crowd imo. 

 

One of our biggest issues has been the fitness of this core and when you remove that as you say there is little difference in quality between all the teams. 

 

The results game on game show that most games are very close. 

 

I done a calculation last season, almost 70% of the games were a draw or decided by 1 goal. 

 

 

 

Also possibly highlights the benefits of a stable manager. 

Hibs and ourselves have changed several times in that time. 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Hearts1975]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Get a grip ffs.

 

Levein was poor in that last spell as manager, McPhee had a record in his short time as coach that wasn't even as bad as Stendel's. 

Leaving that aside, CL's "level" included being his country's national team manager and McPhee is the current Northern Ireland assistant manager. 

 

Levein has left us in a mess but stop trying to rewrite history.

Stop being a drama queen 😀

 

Hardly rewriting history. I was responding to yet another joke of a post So you don’t have the right to say that when what I said was in context with what I read

 

no disrespect aimed at you personally but don’t even get me started on Levein and McPhee.

 

Mess and Poor would be a politicians way of describing their respective tenures at the club 

 

They still here ?.............

 

 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Stop being a drama queen 😀

 

Hardly rewriting history. I was responding to yet another joke of a post So you don’t have the right to say that when what I said was in context with what I read

 

no disrespect aimed at you personally but don’t even get me started on Levein and McPhee.

 

Mess and Poor would be a politicians way of describing their respective tenures at the club 

 

They still here ?.............

 

 

 

So you stand by this comment?

 

"In Football terms I really can’t think of anyone who is at the same level as Levein and Macphee"

 

Blinded by anger and hate.

[Hearts1975]

15 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

So you stand by this comment?

 

"In Football terms I really can’t think of anyone who is at the same level as Levein and Macphee"

 

Blinded by anger and hate.

Do I hold them personally responsible for our current predicament ? - Absolutely

 

Do I find it galling that they didn’t take matters into their own hands and walk away on many occasions when they had the chance to limit the damage they were causing our club ? - Absolutely 

 

Do I find it hard that we haven’t so much as heard a peep out of the two of them or even as much as heard even an apology for what has happened under their leadership ? - Absolutely 

 

Blinded by anger and hate ... As much as it might suit your point of view to get a yes from me, the answer is no. 

 

Anger, very much yes but I am certainly not blinded by the reality of what they have done to the club 

 

As far as what I said in terms of their level I can’t honestly think who I would be more concerned with leading us as a club and in respect of being compared to these 2. Sorry, but no point lying about it.  

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

Do I hold them personally responsible for our current predicament ? - Absolutely

 

Do I find it galling that they didn’t take matters into their own hands and walk away on many occasions when they had the chance to limit the damage they were causing our club ? - Absolutely 

 

Do I find it hard that we haven’t so much as heard a peep out of the two of them or even as much as heard even an apology for what has happened under their leadership ? - Absolutely 

 

Blinded by anger and hate ... As much as it might suit your point of view to get a yes from me, the answer is no. 

 

Anger, very much yes but I am certainly not blinded by the reality of what they have done to the club 

 

As far as what I said in terms of their level I can’t honestly think who I would be more concerned with leading us as a club and in respect of being compared to these 2. Sorry, but no point lying about it.  

 

Fair enough, we're all entitled to say what we think.

 

Plenty examples that I can think of for the last point though. John Hughes? Terry Butcher? Pat Fenlon? Plus a whole lot of other ex-hibs managers.

[Hearts1975]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Fair enough, we're all entitled to say what we think.

 

Plenty examples that I can think of for the last point though. John Hughes? Terry Butcher? Pat Fenlon? Plus a whole lot of other ex-hibs managers.

The fact that we are drawing direct comparisons with The previous list of failed hobo managers is saying something. 🙄

 

Anyway, we move on. If we can get Boyce and another creative/goal scoring mid in place this transfer window all is not lost 

[SectionDJambo]

2 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

They said it was "outside Edinburgh" to get round the fact that we beat their team.

Either way, it's still a shocking statistic

It is a very poor record. Mind you, we haven’t won much at home either.

And I should read things properly. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

34 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

The fact that we are drawing direct comparisons with The previous list of failed hobo managers is saying something. 🙄

 

Anyway, we move on. If we can get Boyce and another creative/goal scoring mid in place this transfer window all is not lost 

In fairness to Hughes, he's won a trophy as manager.

[Tasavallan]

SHOTS - 2

SHOTS ON TARGET - 0

 

Reads like a Levein game.