Levein

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Kev1998 said:

The three parts you mentioned graygo,He's gave you his reasons for wanting rid of Levin and the coaches you tell me yours for wanting them to stay?

 

I couldn't really give a toss whether they stay or not but I support Ann Budge's right to make that decision and reckon she is a better judge of whether it is the right call or not than most if not all of the people losing their shit over it. 

[Ron Burgundy]

35 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

I wasn't too fussed if he stayed in the background or not, but on reflection I now want him to stay. 

 

The seethe on here is magnificent. 

The way he winds up grown men is fantastic entertainment. 

 

I hope he's the new ceo once Ann leaves. 

 

 

I doubt many will be shocked to see you admit that getting your jollies on an internet forum is more important to you than a successful Hearts team.

[Governor Tarkin]

8 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

Would you be happy if Levein was gone, negotiations broke down as a result of Levein not being here to head up the negotiations and Hickey leaves for free?

 

Other football clubs manage to run their affairs perfectly well without Craig Levein.

 

The fact that some folk still see fit to imply that he's essential to Hearts - in any capacity - is hilarious.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Governor Tarkin

[Nookie Bear]

7 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

Would you be happy if Levein was gone, negotiations broke down as a result of Levein not being here to head up the negotiations and Hickey leaves for free?

No, but I don’t think it’s a good reason to keep Levein here. 
 

 

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Other football clubs manage to run their affairs perfectly well without Craig Levein.

 

The fact that some folk still think he's essential to Hearts - in any capacity - is hilarious.

In a nutshell 

 

Its not like he is any good at what he does ffs

[graygo]

3 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Mate. Ann Budge has us sitting at 3rd bottom of the league so let’s just say that’s she has made her fair share of mistakes and that her blinded loyalty has cost her to date 

 

That said, and as I said, I think recently she has just made one of the best decisions that she has ever made. I just would like a complete clear out of the old (if possible) and move on from this and get right behind Stendel, the new era and the team 

 

Good, reasoned post.

 

My thoughts are that you will get your wish just not as quick as you would like.

[Boab]

Just now, Ron Burgundy said:

I doubt many will be shocked to see you admit that getting your jollies on an internet forum is more important to you than a successful Hearts team.

I’m not shocked, tbh.

[Kev1998]

See ,that's the difference between you and I graygo.because I do give a toss if he stays or goes.for the life of me I cannot give you a reason why he should stay ,but if I had a spare 2 hours I could tell you why he should go

[Hearts1975]

9 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

I wish we could empty negative people from this thread never mind the business lol

The bit I don’t get or grasp is that in my mind it’s negative the posters who are still backing Levein and to this day 

How much damage does he need to do before folk wake up ?

Certainly not having a pop at you my friend but seriously the sooner he is gone the sooner you will see things starting to take shape again 

[Vlad Magic]

1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

Mate. Ann Budge has us sitting at 3rd bottom of the league so let’s just say that’s she has made her fair share of mistakes and that her blinded loyalty has cost her to date 

 

That said, and as I said, I think recently she has just made one of the best decisions that she has ever made. I just would like a complete clear out of the old (if possible) and move on from this and get right behind Stendel, the new era and the team 

 

I don’t disagree with any of that. However it’s not as simple as “get them all out now”.

 

There are lengthy contracts involved in some cases, compensation for paying up said contracts, future contract negotiations taking place with current first team players not withstanding the effect on players whom may or may not have close affections to the management and or training staff.

 

Life unfortunately is not as cut and dry as we would like and more often than not immediate knee jerk reactions can be more damaging than carefully and thought through exit strategies.

 

This is where Ann earns her crust and respect from those with some grey matter between their ears. 

[Vlad Magic]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Other football clubs manage to run their affairs perfectly well without Craig Levein.

 

The fact that some folk still see fit to imply that he's essential to Hearts - in any capacity - is hilarious.

 

It was a closed question. One that is answered with a “yes” or a “no” 👍

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

In a nutshell 

 

Its not like he is any good at what he does ffs

 

Correct.

 

Put the Gorgie Gambler out to pasture and let us all get behind the Gorgie Gruppenführer.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I doubt many will be shocked to see you admit that getting your jollies on an internet forum is more important to you than a successful Hearts team.

[E6 Inc]

10 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

Only among the brain dead. You'd be right if it was Daly, MacPhee or Fox taking the team but no way wi Stendel in charge

 

I meant more from the press and the Stewarts of this world than our fans (even the brain dead ones). They'll bang on about it and it's just a distraction and negativity we don't need.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Kev1998 said:

See ,that's the difference between you and I graygo.because I do give a toss if he stays or goes.for the life of me I cannot give you a reason why he should stay ,but if I had a spare 2 hours I could tell you why he should go

 

I've read all your reasons for him going, Ann Budge disagrees and it's her club right now. I'm pretty sure that if she had a spare 2 hours she could tell you why he should stay.

 

Me? I'm just going to get on with supporting the club and not get too hung up on whether Levein stays or not. I reckon it'll make it more enjoyable.

[Hearts1975]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Good, reasoned post.

 

My thoughts are that you will get your wish just not as quick as you would like.

Honestly, I don’t.

 

I have said many many times that this won’t be an overnight fix as I personally believe that we are in a state of damage and that Stendel will need months and months to turn this around 

 

That said, I will go on record now and give him my full backing as I don’t know what it is, but I just believe this guy is the answer to our prayers. You can call that dreaming, pipe dreams, whatever you want, but the more and more I think on it, out of everyone he just seems to tick the box and get us going again 

 

I just hope that he gets the time that he needs and to get us on the front foot again 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Getting Ann to part with Craig is like getting a bairn to give up its dummy. It's quite pathetic.

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Honestly, I don’t.

 

I have said many many times that this won’t be an overnight fix as I personally believe that we are in a state of damage and that Stendel will need months and months to turn this around 

 

That said, I will go on record now and give him my full backing as I don’t know what it is, but I just believe this guy is the answer to our prayers. You can call that dreaming, pipe dreams, whatever you want, but the more and more I think on it, out of everyone he just seems to tick the box and get us going again 

 

I just hope that he gets the time that he needs and to get us on the front foot again 

 

I guarantee that if things are still the same in a couple of months there will be calls for heads with the experts claiming that they knew this would happen.

[Hearts1975]

7 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

I don’t disagree with any of that. However it’s not as simple as “get them all out now”.

 

There are lengthy contracts involved in some cases, compensation for paying up said contracts, future contract negotiations taking place with current first team players not withstanding the effect on players whom may or may not have close affections to the management and or training staff.

 

Life unfortunately is not as cut and dry as we would like and more often than not immediate knee jerk reactions can be more damaging than carefully and thought through exit strategies.

 

This is where Ann earns her crust and respect from those with some grey matter between their ears. 

I get the financial side. If we need to honour agreements, we need to honour agreements 

 

I would add that Ann would have been best off not saying that she wouldn’t be adverse to offering CL/AM new contracts when theirs expire and in the press at this moment in particular time 

 

Don’t know what’s going on there but there are 2 people that DS would like to bring to the club in Stern and Tong, so it maybe would have been more prudent to say nothing if she was going to allow Levein and McPhee’s contracts to run down and then employ the said 2 

[davemclaren]

38 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I understand that but I question what value he will add, and in any other capacity, until such times as he is gone.

 

AB still hasn’t ruled out giving him a new contract and given what has happened in the past that is concerning to say the least. Even although I am really excited by the DS appointment there is a bit of me that wonders if AB is fully prepared or accepted that the best thing for the club is to let him go. 

 

Personally, if I was him, and I am sure he will have made his money, all I’m saying is that he could have went to AB and resigned, allowing her to use the money to allow Stendel to bring in his own team.

 

All I’m saying is, if it was me, and I don’t doubt you and many many others we may have asked AB what was in the clubs best interests and then make a decision. If that wasn’t the case for CL those who defend him saying he loves the club and wants what’s best for the club have no argument for saying that imo and ultimately it was just a job for him 

 

CL doesn’t manage us anymore and like I said previously,I am feeling ultra positive in respect of AB’s recent appointment but I just don’t think the old era has anything of value to add to the club. 

 

That said, if the current regime want their money and contracts paid up in full then I guess we have to honour that but there is absolutely no value in extending their presence around the club any longer than we have too.

 

It’s whats best for the club and not what’s best for individuals that should matter to all of the support. Nothing else.

The board clearly think that keeping him on to do some work while he’s bring paid is best for the club. 

[Perth to Paisley]

From my understanding Craig will leave at the end of his contract _ until then he will be doing Academy stuff _ well away from the first team. If he is doing a decent job and it's avoiding a pay off I can live with that.  If beyond the end of his current contract it is decided he is the best person for that job I would be happy he got it on a much reduced salary commensurate with that role.

Similarly with Austin. 

 

As for Daly and Fox they will similarly be on contracts that would need paid up. I would rather have them put out the cones and we got a new player. I think Stendel will get his own team in but it might take a few months (maybe FoH could help)

 

They all should get the same treatment as Lockie (ex manager remember) _ well away from the first team and on a rate appropriate for the job PROVIDED they are the best people for the job.

[Kev1998]

Graygo ,I also just want to get on supporting the club and get back on track.but with this situation I think it will be harder,I've been honest with you in my posts.so for you to come out with "If she had 2 hours I'm sure she would give you reasons for him staying"beggars belief my friend.

[davie1980]

On 11/12/2019 at 01:50, jamborich said:

Fair comment but your not really adding much to the debate 

 

Starts a thread, repeating the same shite that has been trotted out a million times over the last year.

 

Accuses others of not adding much to the debate.

 

The lack of self-awareness is frankly astounding.

[Jamhammer]

14 minutes ago, E6 Inc said:

 

I meant more from the press and the Stewarts of this world than our fans (even the brain dead ones). They'll bang on about it and it's just a distraction and negativity we don't need.

They're always gonna find something though. We pay em off, "Waste of cash the new guy could have had", FWIW I think they should all have been emptied but, if DS cant bring his own staff "yet" he's gonna need at least some of em.

[Hearts1975]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I guarantee that if things are still the same in a couple of months there will be calls for heads with the experts claiming that they knew this would happen.

That maybe, or not, maybe the case.

 

I don’t think that’s a wise strategy either giving the guy 2 months to fulfill a complete turnaround 

 

It’s about progress, the players, the attitude, the desire to win, the style of football, the performances without fear and ultimately connecting the support with the club again 

 

Not in 2 months but give Stendel time he can do this. He doesn’t have any fear of anyone ... One of his first media comments 

 

Something along the lines of “we won’t authenticate our style of play to the teams that we play, they will have to authenticate their style of play to us” 

 

This is the exact attitude that we need right now. It’s all about how we play and the opposition will just need to learn how to deal with it. Genuinely excited. This guy doesn’t understand the meaning of fear.

[davemclaren]

People have different views on whether Craig can add any value in staying on and doing what the board have asked him today but, for some people, the most important thing seems to be that Levein is seen to be heavily punished for failing as first team manager. 

[graygo]

5 minutes ago, Kev1998 said:

Graygo ,I also just want to get on supporting the club and get back on track.but with this situation I think it will be harder,I've been honest with you in my posts.so for you to come out with "If she had 2 hours I'm sure she would give you reasons for him staying"beggars belief my friend.

 

You will find it harder to support the club because CL and AP have been given the roles they have been given?

To me that beggars belief my friend.

 

Seriously, for your own enjoyment if not your mental health, put them out of your mind and just support the team/club and see where we end up.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

People have different views on whether Craig can add any value in staying on and doing what the board have asked him today but, for some people, the most important thing seems to be that Levein is seen to be heavily punished for failing as first team manager. 

 

I disagree with that Dave. I think there are a lot of people who expect problems of interference in first team affairs. I certainly do. The entire staff currently being at the club while Stendel arrived on his own is  a recipe for disaster. 

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

That maybe, or not, maybe the case.

 

I don’t think that’s a wise strategy either giving the guy 2 months to fulfill a complete turnaround 

 

It’s about progress, the players, the attitude, the desire to win, the style of football, the performances without fear and ultimately connecting the support with the club again 

 

Not in 2 months but give Stendel time he can do this. He doesn’t have any fear of anyone ... One of his first media comments 

 

Something along the lines of “we won’t authenticate our style of play to the teams that we play, they will have to authenticate their style of play to us” 

 

This is the exact attitude that we need right now. It’s all about how we play and the opposition will just need to learn how to deal with it. Genuinely excited. This guy doesn’t understand the meaning of fear.

 

Agree with every word.

[Governor Tarkin]

29 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

It was a closed question. One that is answered with a “yes” or a “no” 👍

 

Ok I'll answer your 'closed' question.

 

Yes, I would be happy. Happy enough knowing that the 'natural order' of things (see what I did there), had run its course. 

 

Young players leave football clubs all of the time.

And in Hickey's case it wouldn't even be the first time he'd left us.

 

You can keep doing your hypothetical mental gymnastics all you like, but the fact is your golden boy has been a resounding failure where it really matters.

And in the case of any Hickey deal, the least smelly shite in the toilet is still a shite.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Governor Tarkin

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

 

I disagree with that Dave. I think there are a lot of people who expect problems of interference in first team affairs. I certainly do. The entire staff currently being at the club while Stendel arrived on his own is  a recipe for disaster. 

Why do you expect that?

[Ron Burgundy]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

People have different views on whether Craig can add any value in staying on and doing what the board have asked him today but, for some people, the most important thing seems to be that Levein is seen to be heavily punished for failing as first team manager. 

Being told to stay away as you have cost the club millions is being heavily punished?

Are you personal friends with this guy?

[Hearts1975]

7 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The board clearly think that keeping him on to do some work while he’s bring paid is best for the club. 

Fully understand that but the board has just presided over a reign of failure so by keeping the same people on in some other capacity rather than getting rid and paying them off is ultimately going to raise some question marks 

 

Some of the decisions that the board have made in recent times have been baffling to say the least so probably wise not to put your full faith in what they think although I fully agree with you that you are right when you say that they do see the value in it, even although others don’t 

 

I keep hearing financial implications but what sticks in my throat is what would CL and AM’s cost of severance be right now and to pay them off VS the amount of money they have sanctioned and wasted on dross recruitment at the club and over their time in charge 

 

I would indicate that their severance combined would be utterly insignificant  to the amount of club money they have wasted on recruitment alone 

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Why do you expect that?

 

Because Levein is a well documented control freak, meddling ****.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Governor Tarkin

[Kev1998]

No graygo,I didn't mean that.getting back to normal will be harder with them still there is what I meant.ifhes running the youths ,fair enough.but it will always be in people's minds that there is a bigger agenda further down the line.but I will ,as you say get behind the team. Onwards and upwards

[luckydug]

36 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

I don’t disagree with any of that. However it’s not as simple as “get them all out now”.

 

There are lengthy contracts involved in some cases, compensation for paying up said contracts, future contract negotiations taking place with current first team players not withstanding the effect on players whom may or may not have close affections to the management and or training staff.

 

Life unfortunately is not as cut and dry as we would like and more often than not immediate knee jerk reactions can be more damaging than carefully and thought through exit strategies.

 

This is where Ann earns her crust and respect from those with some grey matter between their ears. 

Good Post 👍

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Why do you expect that?

 

If you're a disgruntled player or coach where do you go?

 

Also, CL is  a very strong character who I don't believe for a second has accepted his role at the club is over come the summer.

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, Kev1998 said:

No graygo,I didn't mean that.getting back to normal will be harder with them still there is what I meant.ifhes running the youths ,fair enough.but it will always be in people's minds that there is a bigger agenda further down the line.but I will ,as you say get behind the team. Onwards and upwards

 

👍

[Cut The Crap]

15 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

People have different views on whether Craig can add any value in staying on and doing what the board have asked him today but, for some people, the most important thing seems to be that Levein is seen to be heavily punished for failing as first team manager. 

 

It's not about punishment. It's about clearing the decks to allow everyone - staff, players, fans and board - to unite and focus on getting us out of the mess we are currently in. The continued presence of the men who got us into that mess is an unnecessary distraction that will only grow if we don't fly out of the traps in the first few games. 

[Nookie Bear]

45 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Correct.

 

Put the Gorgie Gambler out to pasture and let us all get behind the Gorgie Gruppenführer.

 

 

Hoping Berra will be sporting his Spielfuhrer armband this weekend.

[Vlad Magic]

10 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

If you're a disgruntled player or coach where do you go?

 

Also, CL is  a very strong character who I don't believe for a second has accepted his role at the club is over come the summer.

 

He can accept it or not. His future will be decided by the board.

[Nookie Bear]

53 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I doubt many will be shocked to see you admit that getting your jollies on an internet forum is more important to you than a successful Hearts team.

 

[davemclaren]

22 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Being told to stay away as you have cost the club millions is being heavily punished?

Are you personal friends with this guy?

Nope. As I’ve said before, the board must believe he can add value in doing what he is currently doing. I’ve see many people ( including myself ) removed from a role and given something else to do to see out a contractual commitment. 

[Hearts1975]

22 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

I disagree with that Dave. I think there are a lot of people who expect problems of interference in first team affairs. I certainly do. The entire staff currently being at the club while Stendel arrived on his own is  a recipe for disaster. 

Correct but hopefully not so much the interference side as I hope Ann has learned her lesson there 

 

The most important thing for the club is having people at the club who Stendel can trust fully and that the same people at the club will walk through coals for Stendel and have full faith in him as an individual 

 

Its important to get his own people in who trust him and what he does. This will transfer directly to the players 

 

 

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

It's not about punishment. It's about clearing the decks to allow everyone - staff, players, fans and board - to unite and focus on getting us out of the mess we are currently in. The continued presence of the men who got us into that mess is an unnecessary distraction that will only grow if we don't fly out of the traps in the first few games. 

That’s certainly an opinion. The board have to make a judgement on that. In most businesses when a senior manager is removed from a role they don’t often clear the decks and empty everyone that reports to them. They get a new guy in to assess what needs to be done. They then generally bring in people they know and trust over time keeping some of the previous people or moving them on. 

[davemclaren]

28 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Because Levein is a well documented control freak, meddling ****.

 

 

Where is it documented and even if he is he doesn’t have the power or backing to do that anymore. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I doubt many will be shocked to see you admit that getting your jollies on an internet forum is more important to you than a successful Hearts team.

 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

That’s certainly an opinion. The board have to make a judgement on that. In most businesses when a senior manager is removed from a role they don’t often clear the decks and empty everyone that reports to them. They get a new guy in to assess what needs to be done. They then generally bring in people they know and trust over time keeping some of the previous people or moving them on. 

 

That may well be true. Can you maybe find a real life example where a manager has came to a club without his own assistant(s) but the club still has the ex-manager, the ex-interim manager and all the previous coaches still at the club?

 

Can you honestly say this situation seems ok?

[Bull's-eye]

Strikes me that Ann has give the torn pussed gum bumpers something to moan about, let's be honest, if it wasn't CL then it would be something else, then something else etc etc repeat.

 

She knows what she's doing and she knew the reaction it would cause.

 

Keeps everybody happy as far as I can gather from here and other media sources. 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

14 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Nope. As I’ve said before, the board must believe he can add value in doing what he is currently doing. I’ve see many people ( including myself ) removed from a role and given something else to do to see out a contractual commitment. 

Were you removed from that role due to incompetence?

If so then well done playing the system.

If not then that's fair enough.