Levein’s time is up...

[kimosavi]

Just now, Bad Religion said:

 

I’ll take away your crayons. 

It'll  give you something to chew on mind you 

[Bad Religion]

13 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How is not renewing a false threat? I remember when getting 5,000 STs sold was a milestone. We only broke the 10K barrier after we won the cup in 1998. They are still a relatively new phenomenon.

 

Are there arseholes who have an agenda? Yes. But don't use them to tar a support where apathy with the club is growing despite our best financial position in years.

 

It’s pointless without any knowledge of what the future holds. 

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Fair point. 

Everything else was pretty much spot on though.

[Bad Religion]

2 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

It'll  give you something to chew on mind you 

 

In your opinion will CL still have failed in his role (Dof or Manager) if we win the cup?

Edited May 6, 2019 by Bad Religion

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

 

It’s pointless without any knowledge of what the future holds. 

Right, so people don't make decisions based on past evidence at all then?

 

Craig Wighton could score 40 goals next season. Past evidence suggests that is as likely as me scoring a threesome with the Minogue sisters!

[kimosavi]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

 

In your opinion will CL still have failed in his role (Dof or Manager) if we win the cup?

YES 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

 

It’s pointless without any knowledge of what the future holds. 

What do you think the future holds? We’ve had two poor seasons of pretty much the same football and results. We have a manager that by his own admission struggled to change his tactics and didn’t know why his team start games poorly. What evidence is there that he will ever change or sign players that aren’t injury prone that will help us improve?

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

In your opinion will CL still have failed in his role (Dof or Manager) if we win the cup?

Did you think Sergio or Ivanauskas failed?

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

YES 

Why ? If we win the cup we'll also qualify for European football ! Granted the football has mostly been eye bleeding but success for us would certainly be bringing home the Scottish cup , qualifying for European football and also league cup semi final 

[Bad Religion]

1 minute ago, kimosavi said:

YES 

 

How anyone is meant to rationalise with people with your kind of mindset is beyond me. 

 

 

[Bad Religion]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Did you think Sergio or Ivanauskas failed?

 

Absolutely not. Does anyone?

[Enzo Chiefo]

27 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

There is definitely an anti AB and CL agenda amongst the noisy minority in our support. That cannot be denied. 

 

There is no need for all these false threats of not renewing, stopping FoH contributions etc. before anyone has the slightest clue what is going to transpire over the summer. 

 

 

There was also an anti Cathro agenda and he didn't get the luxury of even one pre season, never mind 2. I also remember anti-McLean agendas, anti Ford one and an anti Moncur one. That's football. Happens at all clubs. Managing Hearts is a temporary role, regardless of how good a player you were. Underperform and you're out the door.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Did you think Sergio or Ivanauskas failed?

I don’t think Sergio particularly succeeded in terms of the league but he deserved another shot for winning the cup imo. 

 

Ivanauskas won the cup in somewhat crazy times so it’s hard to judge.

[Bad Religion]

6 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Right, so people don't make decisions based on past evidence at all then?

 

Craig Wighton could score 40 goals next season. Past evidence suggests that is as likely as me scoring a threesome with the Minogue sisters!

 

If CL was to continue in his current role, yes. It’s looking increasingly unlikely that this will be the case. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Absolutely not. Does anyone?

I’m not sure if you’ve read this whole thread, I don’t blame you, but I’ve asked a few Levein fans if they would take Sergio back and the majority have said we were awful in the league and they wouldn’t want him back? Ironic eh?He had a better squad than Levein but with the state the club was in and only signing one player, and losing quite a few through the season, he did a good job. I would like to see him have another go with his own signings.

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I don’t think Sergio particularly succeeded in terms of the league but he deserved another shot for winning the cup imo. 

 

Ivanauskas won the cup in somewhat crazy times so it’s hard to judge.

The point is that Levein fans mostly say that they wouldn’t want Sergio back because of the poor football and finishing 5th ??‍♂️??

[sadj]

22 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Right, so people don't make decisions based on past evidence at all then?

 

Craig Wighton could score 40 goals next season. Past evidence suggests that is as likely as me scoring a threesome with the Minogue sisters!

No , no its really not Geoff ?

[Sid]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Couple of hundred grand?

 

These days the wage bill is the best indication of what is spent on a team. Compare and contrast to the team that beat us at the weekend.

And how many players did they bring in this season?  The question isn’t comparative budgets. It’s specifically how quickly can you build a team when you don’t have a significant transfer fee budget ie what can you expect to secure that isn’t a risk but is available on a free. You seem to think you should be able to get every one right. 

[JamboGraham]

17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

There was also an anti Cathro agenda and he didn't get the luxury of even one pre season, never mind 2. I also remember anti-McLean agendas, anti Ford one and an anti Moncur one. That's football. Happens at all clubs. Managing Hearts is a temporary role, regardless of how good a player you were. Underperform and you're out the door.

 

Did Cathro not have the pre-season, summer 2017?

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Did Cathro not have the pre-season, summer 2017?

Yes he did

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Did Cathro not have the pre-season, summer 2017?

My mistake yes, he did up until July. I should have said one full summer transfer window.

[Jodami]

2 minutes ago, Sid said:

And how many players did they bring in this season?  The question isn’t comparative budgets. It’s specifically how quickly can you build a team when you don’t have a significant transfer fee budget ie what can you expect to secure that isn’t a risk but is available on a free. You seem to think you should be able to get every one right. 

Clarke turned that team around last season without signing anyone. Levein has been backed to the hilt, we even over spent to get Clare. 

Or maybe you could try to play the same way as the rest of the teams at the club to help players moving through the ranks. Alternatively you could publicly state that and then just not bother your arse. 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Clarke turned that team around last season without signing anyone. Levein has been backed to the hilt, we even over spent to get Clare. 

Or maybe you could try to play the same way as the rest of the teams at the club to help players moving through the ranks. Alternatively you could publicly state that and then just not bother your arse. 

 

Thats just not correct. 

[innerjambo]

He is nothing more than a massive failure at everything he does. He's not even a Hearts legend, what exactly did he achieve. He was at best an above average defender in a tin pot league, who won nowt. All these years later and he's still a failure in coaching and management. All these idiots on here salivating over him is just laughable, it really is.

 

?????????

[kimosavi]

22 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

How anyone is meant to rationalise with people with your kind of mindset is beyond me. 

 

 

Looks like you're the only one who thinks he'd have been successfull Frank 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Thats just not correct. 

I think Mulumbu was the only signing last season.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

He is nothing more than a massive failure at everything he does. He's not even a Hearts legend, what exactly did he achieve. He was at best an above average defender in a tin pot league, who won nowt. All these years later and he's still a failure in coaching and management. All these idiots on here salivating over him is just laughable, it really is.

 

?????????

I agree about wanting him out but to say he was an above average defender is laughable.

[innerjambo]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I agree about wanting him out but to say he was an above average defender is laughable.

 

Each to their own, I thought he was a bit over rated myself.

[jambonian]

39 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Why ? If we win the cup we'll also qualify for European football ! Granted the football has mostly been eye bleeding but success for us would certainly be bringing home the Scottish cup , qualifying for European football and also league cup semi final 

 

But it would be highly unlikely we'd actually reach the group stages, which is where the money is. Too many qualifying rounds and even if we did get through one or two of them we'd get some big club and that would be that, over for another year.

As for winning the Cup...it could happen but, that lot on a treble Treble? I just hope we can hold out for longer than normal during the game then see what happens. If they were to score within the first 5-10 minutes.....ouch! Could be a hammering.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think Mulumbu was the only signing last season.

Sure there was at least one or two more boy from Villa? Anyway fairly moot was just saying if you make a point , make it accurate. 

 

I showed stats the other day to say Leveins second spell in terms of win percentage was 6th best in the last 40years for anyone with more than 6months in the job. His first 8th best. 

 

The pathetic comments aside (not aimed at you) there is no doubt that the first team football and the last 6months have been abysmal but the off field and non first team things are not a reason to beat Levein with a stick. Someone mentioned not playing the same style all the way through. Possibly that is the long term plan , the gestation period would take us at least another 2/3 years we can’t continue as we are until then however. 

[sadj]

Just now, jambonian said:

 

But it would be highly unlikely we'd actually reach the group stages, which is where the money is. Too many qualifying rounds and even if we did get through one or two of them we'd get some big club and that would be that, over for another year.

As for winning the Cup...it could happen but, that lot on a treble Treble? I just hope we can hold out for longer than normal during the game then see what happens. If they were to score within the first 5-10 minutes.....ouch! Could be a hammering.

The money isnt really there in the group stages. Its better and to us would be huge but its poor unless you are in the CL. 

 

There was an article the other day about Ajax and PSV taking their Euro money and distributing it around to produce greater structure for the health of Dutch football and greater competition. That will never happen here unfortunately

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

 

Each to their own, I thought he was a bit over rated myself.

Fair enough.

 

[jambonian]

32 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The point is that Levein fans mostly say that they wouldn’t want Sergio back because of the poor football and finishing 5th ??‍♂️??

In fairness the board at the time allowed Jim Jeffries to recruit that summer before sacking him. Sergio was working with players signed to suit a JJ team. (Taouil, Hamill and Sutton spring to mind). Sergio is from another footballing culture and actually did okay with what he had under the circumstances, bearing in mind he didn't sign anyone until the following February. Beattie became legendary for his goal against Celtic in the semi and put us on the way to hammering Hibs in that Final. Must be one of the shortest contracted players ever to have that status! It would've been very interesting to see if or what, Sergio could've done given his own players.  Alas we'll never know.

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

 

Each to their own, I thought he was a bit over rated myself.

??

 

top class player until he got badly injured. 

[Jodami]

23 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Thats just not correct. 

Sorry he signed Mulumbu and then Tshbola in January on loan but he had turned the corner before then. The obvious point is he changed their fortunes by coaching and improving the players he had. It's difficult to discern what our players are coached to do. 

[Bad Religion]

18 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

Looks like you're the only one who thinks he'd have been successfull Frank 

 

You just focus on breathing. 

[SuperstarSteve]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Which is the board's call.

 

But I don't think they will need a forensic analysis to understand why the shiny new stand will have large gaps in it.

If anyone refuses to go for any other reason than they can”t afford to go or can’t make majority games through work etc. They don’t deserve to be there in the first place, just my opinion of course. 

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Sid said:

 

So, with a budget of a couple of hundred grand, he should have been able to build a long-term secured pool of first team players of how many?  

Draw me a picture of what an acceptable level of progress should have been on that budget starting with virtually no players on long term deals. 

So he should have signed 11 really good players on long term contracts who would all be successful and no injuries this season all for a couple of hundred grand. I’m sure there would have been a queue at his door of such applicants where their clubs wanted no money for them and they wanted to come to our club on our wage structure. 

 

Where do you get the £200k figure from for signing players and paying their wages???? ?

Draw me a picture if you’re struggling! ?

[innerjambo]

8 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

??

 

top class player until he got badly injured. 

 

There's no doubting he was good, especially in the eyes of Hearts fans. And ofcourse he played for Scotland, big deal. But the fact that Hearts was his biggest club and no other club signed him before he got injured, tells it's own story. As I said before, he was over rated imo.

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, sadj said:

Sure there was at least one or two more boy from Villa? Anyway fairly moot was just saying if you make a point , make it accurate. 

 

I showed stats the other day to say Leveins second spell in terms of win percentage was 6th best in the last 40years for anyone with more than 6months in the job. His first 8th best. 

 

The pathetic comments aside (not aimed at you) there is no doubt that the first team football and the last 6months have been abysmal but the off field and non first team things are not a reason to beat Levein with a stick. Someone mentioned not playing the same style all the way through. Possibly that is the long term plan , the gestation period would take us at least another 2/3 years we can’t continue as we are until then however. 

Now you’re doing it, he stated that the plan was for all the teams to play the same way so that the succession plan of coaches and players would be seamless. As soon as Cathro left and Daly didn’t get the job that all went out the window. The first team play different formations from match to match under Levein so it couldn’t be done anyway. The first three months of the season were the exception not the year before or the 6 months of relegation form afterwards. As for those stats we’ve only had a few decent managers since Mercer took over and most of my 46 years of going to games have been tumultuous on and off the pitch. Part of the frustration of our current position is that we are starting from scratch with no debt with a much bigger budget than at least two of the teams above us.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Bad Religion said:

 

There is definitely an anti AB and CL agenda amongst the noisy minority in our support. That cannot be denied. 

 

There is no need for all these false threats of not renewing, stopping FoH contributions etc. before anyone has the slightest clue what is going to transpire over the summer. 

 

 

 

The is definitely a noisy minority against Budge but I would not be so sure it’s only a minority who now want Levein out.

[Shanks]

To finish in 6th place with our wage bill is a disgrace and a massive failure.  Couple this with the eye bleeding football and it's been a crap season, we have been gifted a shot at the Scottish cup that would take our season from a 3/10 to a 8/10.  

 

IF we can win the cup it would be a brilliant achievement and I would congratulate Levein for beating Celtic in a one of game, I do fear it would paper over the cracks and if he remains in charge for next season I have zero faith that we can progress under him.

 

We have given Levein more time than any other manager would get, since Neilson left can we really say we have progressed on the pitch?  Wasted a shit tonne of money and we have wasted 2 years. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

My assessment of £200k was a guess as I said - have you seen his salary slip then?

As good as. See my other post on the the subject. 

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, jambonian said:

In fairness the board at the time allowed Jim Jeffries to recruit that summer before sacking him. Sergio was working with players signed to suit a JJ team. (Taouil, Hamill and Sutton spring to mind). Sergio is from another footballing culture and actually did okay with what he had under the circumstances, bearing in mind he didn't sign anyone until the following February. Beattie became legendary for his goal against Celtic in the semi and put us on the way to hammering Hibs in that Final. Must be one of the shortest contracted players ever to have that status! It would've been very interesting to see if or what, Sergio could've done given his own players.  Alas we'll never know.

You never know, he might just return at some point.

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

 

There's no doubting he was good, especially in the eyes of Hearts fans. And ofcourse he played for Scotland, big deal. But the fact that Hearts was his biggest club and no other club signed him before he got injured, tells it's own story. As I said before, he was over rated imo.

Spurs were sniffing about before the injury at age 22. 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Sorry he signed Mulumbu and then Tshbola in January on loan but he had turned the corner before then. The obvious point is he changed their fortunes by coaching and improving the players he had. It's difficult to discern what our players are coached to do. 

Indeed, a far better manager than we have.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Spurs were sniffing about before the injury. 

He won the Scottish Young player of the year award 1985 & 1986, then got injured and who knows where he could’ve gone onto. Unfortunately for him and the club he didn’t, do you think it influenced  his decision to sign so many injury prone players in an attempt to help them move onto bigger and better things?

[Morph]

Surely his ''5 year plan'' and individual seasons targets should be used as an indication on whether Levein has failed or not rather than a one off game against Celtic at the end of the season.  

 

 

[innerjambo]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He won the Scottish Young player of the year award 1985 & 1986, then got injured and who knows where he could’ve gone onto. Unfortunately for him and the club he didn’t, do you think it influenced  his decision to sign so many injury prone players in an attempt to help them move onto bigger and better things?

 

Think you're on to something there PFK. Maybe he should retire and set up a sanctuary for injured ex players. 

[sadj]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Now you’re doing it, he stated that the plan was for all the teams to play the same way so that the succession plan of coaches and players would be seamless. As soon as Cathro left and Daly didn’t get the job that all went out the window. The first team play different formations from match to match under Levein so it couldn’t be done anyway. The first three months of the season were the exception not the year before or the 6 months of relegation form afterwards. As for those stats we’ve only had a few decent managers since Mercer took over and most of my 46 years of going to games have been tumultuous on and off the pitch. Part of the frustration of our current position is that we are starting from scratch with no debt with a much bigger budget than at least two of the teams above us.

 

Much bigger budget than one. Hibs budget is about 8k a year less than us thats not very big at our level. 

 

Doesn't matter if we have only had a few decent managers in 40 years. The ott behaviour of some needs a rationale. That rationale is in terms of win percentage and the academy it is not poor by Hearts standards its actually decent.

 

The football and the last 6months is a different story