Levein’s time is up...

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

He was made a full Board Director by Budge - if any other Director suggests Levein should go then it will be him that is shown the door!

Speculative nonsense. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Can anyone hazard a guess as to how much it would take to pay up the contracts of CL and his coaching staff?

One year left on CL’s so that roughly £140k, no idea re contracts of others. 

[soonbe110]

55 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

I think Levein has one year left on his 3 year contract?  If so around £200k I would guess.

 As for Austin and Daly I have no idea what length of contract they are on.

He doesn’t get paid £200k pa so why would we pay him that amount? 

[Bad Religion]

26 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

I wish craig all the health and happiness in life 

 

I also wish he has nothing to do with football management at Hearts ever again not even DOF role he has failed at both 

 

If we win the cup has he failed?

 

or would you rather we lost like you wanted us to lose the derby just to make yourself feel better?

[soonbe110]

34 minutes ago, 18Jambo_dave74 said:

It's now getting to the stage where I think there has to be some announcement made to say that Levein will be leaving the club after the final. I wouldn't be adverse to him leaving before the final but accept that is extremely unlikely. 

 

Not selling out for Easter Road; tickets remaining for the cup final; hardly any fans left for Saturday's post match walk around the pitch; another home game with lots of empty seats and I suspect poor uptake on season ticket renewals. Surely these things can't be ignored for much longer? I hate to say but the longer it does go on then the weaker Budge looks and she becomes even more complicit in the current levels of under performance. 

 

If/ when Levein goes then it has to be a clean break, I can't understand how it would be acceptable for him to return to a DOF position. 

 

I understand that Levein has made huge improvements to the academy and that is great to hear. Obviously it will take time and patience to see the rewards from that as it is still early days. I can understand to an extent why some people might say that he should return to looking after the youth academy however we have Roger Arnott and I would have thought that is within his remit? 

 

I remember back at the start when we announced Levein as DOF he talking about things like principles of play and having the youth teams playing the same way as the first team to make it easier for younger players to transition in to the first team. Perhaps the people who watch the youth teams could confirm but unless they play hoofball to a big target man then this is certainly not the case. The days of passing it out from the back to the centre backs in the Championship season seem a long time ago. 

 

Another reason we were told we should have a DOF is to ensure continuity when it comes to replacing managers. If the club has a way of playing and sign players to fit that way of playing then it should be easier to change managers and not upset things. That couldn't be further from the truth. First of all we saw Neilson rip up the team that ran away with the Championship. Then we saw Cathro come in and make a load of changes (mid season) and of course we now have Levein who has made 18 summer signings. We have signed a huge amount of duds in this time and Levein as DOF has overseen this. When he became manager he instantly said that Martin wasn't his type of player. Well in that case why was he signed as this goes against our 'model'. Signing guys like Sammon on a 3 year deal only for him to spend 2 and half years of that time on loan at other clubs is an absolute nonsense. 

 

As DOF Levein was responsible for identifying Cathro to be the man that would take us forward - I don't really need to say much more on the shambles of the Cathro reign. 

 

Then of course after weeks of carrying out a recruitment process to identify the next manager, we decide that Levein was the right man for the job all along. Well we are two seasons down the line and things haven't improved. The football is as bad as I can remember, we are totally and utterly reliant on one player and we simply cannot, or will not, do the basics on a football pitch. 

 

How we've went from being so exciting in the Championship season - having Sow up front with 3 pacy direct players in behind, full backs that like to attack, quick football played on the ground to watching the likes of Edwards, Wighton, Mulraney, MacLean etc. 

 

I was always a big Levein fan and even for much of this season I have stood up for him but enough is enough. People have had enough of his brand of football and this season in isolation you could perhaps forgive but combined with the last few seasons of boring mediocrity is starting to put people off. 

 

Apologies for the long winded post. At the end of the day we all hope Levein can win the cup and retire a hero but it is looking extremely unlikely. 

 

 

 

 

Re Cathro, you forget that something over 80% of posters on this forum supported Cathro’s appointment. Many were wetting themselves when he was appointed.  Levein wasn’t the only that got that one wrong. 

[Bad Religion]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He doesn’t get paid £200k pa so why would we pay him that amount? 

 

It’s easiest just to make things up as you go along. 

[soonbe110]

35 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

So you reckon Levein is only paid c£4k pw (£200k) for being a Director of Football (overseeing all parts of the club) as well as being team manager.

But

as I suggested earlier it would cost to get rid of the retinue as some people want a clean sweep.

We then get in their replacements and for the gates to go up we would have to guarantee success and better football.  Who are these people  who you feel could do that or is it just another hit and hope?

Last accounts, in the directors emoluments notes it said we have one  director earning over the disclosure amount. I’m assuming that was Levein and I’m sure it was about £137k but can’t remember for sure. FF will have the correct amount. 

[RudiHMFC]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Re Cathro, you forget that something over 80% of posters on this forum supported Cathro’s appointment. Many were wetting themselves when he was appointed.  Levein wasn’t the only that got that one wrong. 

 

But it was Levein that got him in and it failed miserably, he's the man paid to make these decisions and he has to shoulder blame if it goes wrong and it did, horribly.

[Thommo414]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He doesn’t get paid £200k pa so why would we pay him that amount? 

Just under 4k a week for the dof/manger? Not too outlandish imo. Not itk but it can't be too far off surely 

[soonbe110]

23 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

The strange this is we haven't been playing hoofball for the last few games.  We have been trying to play out from the back but our distribution has been terrible, there is no link between defence and midfield and the ball is not sticking, even to Uche, when it's played forward.    It's not hoofball that is our problem it's a lack of craft and guile.  

Exactly, the hoof ball stuff is just nonsense. Me of our crowd was moaning about it at htnon Saturday. I said to him let’s count the number of long balls second half. After 25 mins there hadn’t been any and he admitted he was talking nonsense. Not saying we never play long balls but it’s greatly exaggerated on here. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by soonbe110

[18Jambo_dave74]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Re Cathro, you forget that something over 80% of posters on this forum supported Cathro’s appointment. Many were wetting themselves when he was appointed.  Levein wasn’t the only that got that one wrong. 

 

Agree, many people did support the appointment. I certainly backed him up as I felt the comments from Boyd, Craigan etc were out of order and I think he gained a lot of support out of that. 

 

However the buck stops with Levein for appointing him - it's not the fans job to pick the best candidate for the job. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by 18Jambo_dave74

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, RudiHMFC said:

 

But it was Levein that got him in and it failed miserably, he's the man paid to make these decisions and he has to shoulder blame if it goes wrong and it did, horribly.

Think he has publicly admitted he got it wrong. Does everyone get fired when they make a mistake these days? Especially a mistaken decision that the vast majority of supporters thought was a great decision at the time it was made? What would the reaction have been at the time if Levein had said we could have hired Cathro but I decided not to? 

[Bad Religion]

34 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

 Had several years of CL and his shite signings , tactics and formations, its not like this has just happened, 3/4 years of CLs stagnation, and for your information the only ones throwing their toys around are the ones putting down ANY criticism  of CL. 

 

What would be a better use of your time and energy?

 

1.  Giving your full support to the team for the next couple of weeks. Allow the club to make a statement at the seasons conclusion on how it intends to proceed.  

 

2.  Support the inane mouth breathers on here trying to create as much negativity as possible just to support their anti AB, CL agenda. 

[18Jambo_dave74]

25 minutes ago, TexasAndy said:

The strange this is we haven't been playing hoofball for the last few games.  We have been trying to play out from the back but our distribution has been terrible, there is no link between defence and midfield and the ball is not sticking, even to Uche, when it's played forward.    It's not hoofball that is our problem it's a lack of craft and guile.  

 

Yeah we definitely lack craft and guile. That is the reason that Mulraney (a squad player at Championship side Inverness) is one of the first names on the team sheet at the moment and has to play in the final. 

 

We have so little creativity and threat that a player who's only attribute is pace is a certain starter. 

[It should have been ten]

11 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

If we win the cup has he failed?

 

or would you rather we lost like you wanted us to lose the derby just to make yourself feel better?

 

Well said mate, anyone that wants us to lose a derby is not a Hearts supporter 

[Inch Hearts]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

To be fair, Inch, Jim McIntyre at Dundee doesn't expect that HE is going anywhere either. Managers do tend to fight their corner umtil the decision is made for them. I certainly don't think he will resign.

 

I don’t think Budge would have the guts to sack Levein and admit it’s a farce.  I think she would walk at the same time if it comes to it and that won’t be until she’s got her £ back. 

[Inch Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

What would be a better use of your time and energy?

 

1.  Giving your full support to the team for the next couple of weeks. Allow the club to make a statement at the seasons conclusion on how it intends to proceed.  

 

2.  Support the inane mouth breathers on here trying to create as much negativity as possible just to support their anti AB, CL agenda. 

 

Why is it always some kind of made up agenda?  What was the agenda the first couple of years when it was going well?  There’s no agenda the team are 6th again the crowds are down and the product is rank.  Why is it an agenda to want better than what’s been on display for yet another season? 

[Bad Religion]

5 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Why is it always some kind of made up agenda?  What was the agenda the first couple of years when it was going well?  There’s no agenda the team are 6th again the crowds are down and the product is rank.  Why is it an agenda to want better than what’s been on display for yet another season? 

 

Planes being flown over Tynecastle. Ring any bells?

[Sid]

There are continual comments around Craig’s signing policy being abysmal. Fully accept Sammon and Martin contract extensions seem bizarre in the extreme. Not sure how much of that was his choice but he must take some accountability as DOF at the time. 

A lot of the other failures were calculated risks (not having a budget to actually pay for players) which the vast majority of fans were excited about in advance but haven’t worked out. Vanacek prime example. 

 

Craig is entirely responsible/accountable (as manager and DOF) for securing a core of the following players on 3 year deals this season : - 

Berra

Souttar

Haring 

Uche

Halkett

Cochrane

Naismith (fingers crossed). 

Plus a number of squad players. 

 

He he has stated he wants about 4 even better players in predominantly more attacking positions. 

 

Can anyone honestly argue this is abysmal recruitment policy? 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Planes being flown over Tynecastle. Ring any bells?

 

A dozen arseholes did that. There are far more than a dozen people calling for changes to be made to the management of the team.

[Bad Religion]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

 

A dozen arseholes did that. There are far more than a dozen people calling for changes to be made to the management of the team.

 

Change to the management team now or at the end of the season?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, Sid said:

There are continual comments around Craig’s signing policy being abysmal. Fully accept Sammon and Martin contract extensions seem bizarre in the extreme. Not sure how much of that was his choice but he must take some accountability as DOF at the time. 

A lot of the other failures were calculated risks (not having a budget to actually pay for players) which the vast majority of fans were excited about in advance but haven’t worked out. Vanacek prime example. 

 

Craig is entirely responsible/accountable (as manager and DOF) for securing a core of the following players on 3 year deals this season : - 

Berra

Souttar

Haring 

Uche

Halkett

Cochrane

Naismith (fingers crossed). 

Plus a number of squad players. 

 

He he has stated he wants about 4 even better players in predominantly more attacking positions. 

 

Can anyone honestly argue this is abysmal recruitment policy? 

"Abysmal" is extreme but if you look at the recruitment this season it has hardly set the heather on fire. Bold = hit

 

Zlamal - Decent but it is disappointing when a first choice keeper loses their place

Shaughnessy - Awful

Dunne - Probably one of our best players of the season

Haring - Excellent

Bozanic - Adequate as a squad player

Lee - Frustrating. Would suit a team being built around him to give him time and space on the ball

Clare - Imposter and a waste of a transfer fee

Mitchell - A surprising disappointment

Doyle - Adequate back-up keeper

Naismith - God how we miss him!

Wighton - Jesus wept!

Garuccio - Awful positional player. Can take a decent free kick

MacLean - A veteran who has had his moments but when asked to lead the line has been exposed

Edwards - Why?

Mulraney - It says a lot when people want him in the team because he's our only natural wide player on this list. I'm going to give him a hit though because I had no expectations whatsoever.

Dikamona - A true solid defender. Pity he's always crocked. Hopefully see more of him next season.

Burns - Too early to judge

White - Who knows?

 

So that's 18 players signed for this season (two loan renewals in Naismith and Mitchell) and 5 who you could say who have established themselves as going beyond their role in the squad. That's awful.

 

[Inch Hearts]

13 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Planes being flown over Tynecastle. Ring any bells?

 

That was about 10 folk that planned that.  Thousands are voting with their feet there’s no agenda against either Budge or Levein it’s just time for a change as there’s been no improvement season after season. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

8 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Change to the management team now or at the end of the season?

End of the season. Changing now is pointless.

[Inch Hearts]

9 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Change to the management team now or at the end of the season?

 

Obviously the end of the season but it’s not an agenda and it’s being discussed now because apart from the final the season was over weeks ago. 

[EH11]

9 minutes ago, Sid said:

There are continual comments around Craig’s signing policy being abysmal. Fully accept Sammon and Martin contract extensions seem bizarre in the extreme. Not sure how much of that was his choice but he must take some accountability as DOF at the time. 

A lot of the other failures were calculated risks (not having a budget to actually pay for players) which the vast majority of fans were excited about in advance but haven’t worked out. Vanacek prime example. 

 

Craig is entirely responsible/accountable (as manager and DOF) for securing a core of the following players on 3 year deals this season : - 

Berra

Souttar

Haring 

Uche

Halkett

Cochrane

Naismith (fingers crossed). 

Plus a number of squad players. 

 

He he has stated he wants about 4 even better players in predominantly more attacking positions. 

 

Can anyone honestly argue this is abysmal recruitment policy? 

 

I'd argue that the above is longer term strategic planning, something that has been difficult to do for a number of reasons since admin.  

 

I look forward to Craig bringing in 3-4 quality players to increase our goal threat.  Bryson, Adam, those types of players would be an asset imo.

 

Understand some fans frustrations, sixth isn't good enough and there should be expectations at Hearts to do better.  It's about balancing the short / medium term vision.  If we focus solely on this season, we undermine the longer term vision.  If CL gets the players in that he wants over the close season, I reckon the product will be much improved next season.  

 

[Thomaso]

44 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

He doesn’t get paid £200k pa so why would we pay him that amount? 

 

My assessment of £200k was a guess as I said - have you seen his salary slip then?

[JamboAl]

53 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

So your opinion is we retain the current Manager and his coaching staff???

I reckon that whatever we choose to do we should wait until the end of the season and review where we're at, both on and off the field.  Stupid knee-jerk reactions seldom pay off. 

CL, after his recent heart scare, may decide himself the time is right to vacate his post(s).

We should all try to calm down and get behind the team until the cup is won or lost.  Greeting and moaning will achieve nothing in the 3 remaining weeks.

[Gambo]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Can anyone hazard a guess as to how much it would take to pay up the contracts of CL and his coaching staff?

Free pass to the cup final should bring in a few unexpected £s that should be enough to cover it.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Gambo

[JamboAl]

Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

My assessment of £200k was a guess as I said - have you seen his salary slip then?

I'm not telling.

[Thomaso]

£200k does not seem to far away for a D of F/ Manager/ Director surely

Edited May 6, 2019 by Thomaso

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I reckon that whatever we choose to do we should wait until the end of the season and review where we're at, both on and off the field.  Stupid knee-jerk reactions seldom pay off. 

CL, after his recent heart scare, may decide himself the time is right to vacate his post(s).

We should all try to calm down and get behind the team until the cup is won or lost.  Greeting and moaning will achieve nothing in the 3 remaining weeks.

 

Hard to disagree with all that TBH

[Gambo]

58 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Think it depends on the prognosis re his health to be honest. Probably the biggest factor in any decision. 

The biggest factor should be the product on the park.

 

He may make his own decision based on health but the club should be making the decision for him based on the biggest factor at any club, the product on the park.

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

£200k does not seem to far away for a D of F/ Manager/ Director surely

Before, we had a DoF and a Head Coach.

If, and I repeat IF, one was paid £3k pw and the other £2k pw I'd expect CL to get around £4k pw for the combined job - but that is just a guess.

Would you not think so?

[Sid]

7 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

"Abysmal" is extreme but if you look at the recruitment this season it has hardly set the heather on fire. Bold = hit

 

Zlamal - Decent but it is disappointing when a first choice keeper loses their place

Shaughnessy - Awful

Dunne - Probably one of our best players of the season

Haring - Excellent

Bozanic - Adequate as a squad player

Lee - Frustrating. Would suit a team being built around him to give him time and space on the ball

Clare - Imposter and a waste of a transfer fee

Mitchell - A surprising disappointment

Doyle - Adequate back-up keeper

Naismith - God how we miss him!

Wighton - Jesus wept!

Garuccio - Awful positional player. Can take a decent free kick

MacLean - A veteran who has had his moments but when asked to lead the line has been exposed

Edwards - Why?

Mulraney - It says a lot when people want him in the team because he's our only natural wide player on this list. I'm going to give him a hit though because I had no expectations whatsoever.

Dikamona - A true solid defender. Pity he's always crocked. Hopefully see more of him next season.

Burns - Too early to judge

White - Who knows?

 

So that's 18 players signed for this season (two loan renewals in Naismith and Mitchell) and 5 who you could say who have established themselves as going beyond their role in the squad. That's awful.

 

 

So, with a budget of a couple of hundred grand, he should have been able to build a long-term secured pool of first team players of how many?  

Draw me a picture of what an acceptable level of progress should have been on that budget starting with virtually no players on long term deals. 

So he should have signed 11 really good players on long term contracts who would all be successful and no injuries this season all for a couple of hundred grand. I’m sure there would have been a queue at his door of such applicants where their clubs wanted no money for them and they wanted to come to our club on our wage structure. 

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Gambo said:

The biggest factor should be the product on the park.

 

He may make his own decision based on health but the club should be making the decision for him based on the biggest factor at any club, the product on the park.

1

If you want rid of him it surely should not matter how he goes but you'd prefer to see blood on the carpet.  Is that it?

I'm not saying he should stay or go because we don't know the constraints he's been working under with the club still in transition.

As I said earlier, we should calm down and get behind the club for the next 3 weeks  -  that's not too much to ask from genuine supporters without an agenda.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

8 minutes ago, Sid said:

 

So, with a budget of a couple of hundred grand, he should have been able to build a long-term secured pool of first team players of how many?  

Draw me a picture of what an acceptable level of progress should have been on that budget starting with virtually no players on long term deals. 

So he should have signed 11 really good players on long term contracts who would all be successful and no injuries this season all for a couple of hundred grand. I’m sure there would have been a queue at his door of such applicants where their clubs wanted no money for them and they wanted to come to our club on our wage structure. 

Couple of hundred grand?

 

These days the wage bill is the best indication of what is spent on a team. Compare and contrast to the team that beat us at the weekend.

[JamboAl]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Couple of hundred grand?

 

These days the wage bill is the best indication of what is spent on a team. Compare and contrast to the team that beat us at the weekend.

What are the respective wage bills?

Did we not also beat Killie twice away from home?

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Couple of hundred grand?

 

These days the wage bill is the best indication of what is spent on a team. Compare and contrast to the team that beat us at the weekend.

 

Give us the respective figures.

We also beat Killie twice away from home.

[Bad Religion]

13 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Obviously the end of the season but it’s not an agenda and it’s being discussed now because apart from the final the season was over weeks ago. 

 

There is definitely an anti AB and CL agenda amongst the noisy minority in our support. That cannot be denied. 

 

There is no need for all these false threats of not renewing, stopping FoH contributions etc. before anyone has the slightest clue what is going to transpire over the summer. 

 

 

[Inch Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

There is definitely an anti AB and CL agenda amongst the noisy minority in our support. That cannot be denied. 

 

There is no need for all these false threats of not renewing, stopping FoH contributions etc. before anyone has the slightest clue what is going to transpire over the summer. 

 

 

 

I don’t think it’s an agenda at all.  An agenda is based on something outside what the manager is doing, the reason for any disgruntlement is because the manager/director/dof is failing and change is required for many.  If this was anyone apart from a club legend he would have been punted by now, the goodwill in the support for CL is now down to a vocal minority that can’t see past him for some unforeseen reason apart from the chance of getting it up another part of the support if by some miracle he succeeded. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

12 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

There is definitely an anti AB and CL agenda amongst the noisy minority in our support. That cannot be denied. 

 

There is no need for all these false threats of not renewing, stopping FoH contributions etc. before anyone has the slightest clue what is going to transpire over the summer. 

 

 

How is not renewing a false threat? I remember when getting 5,000 STs sold was a milestone. We only broke the 10K barrier after we won the cup in 1998. They are still a relatively new phenomenon.

 

Are there arseholes who have an agenda? Yes. But don't use them to tar a support where apathy with the club is growing despite our best financial position in years.

[kimosavi]

1 hour ago, Bad Religion said:

 

If we win the cup has he failed?

 

or would you rather we lost like you wanted us to lose the derby just to make yourself feel better?

Hiya Franko 

[Pasquale for King]

59 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

"Abysmal" is extreme but if you look at the recruitment this season it has hardly set the heather on fire. Bold = hit

 

Zlamal - Decent but it is disappointing when a first choice keeper loses their place

Shaughnessy - Awful

Dunne - Probably one of our best players of the season

Haring - Excellent

Bozanic - Adequate as a squad player

Lee - Frustrating. Would suit a team being built around him to give him time and space on the ball

Clare - Imposter and a waste of a transfer fee

Mitchell - A surprising disappointment

Doyle - Adequate back-up keeper

Naismith - God how we miss him!

Wighton - Jesus wept!

Garuccio - Awful positional player. Can take a decent free kick

MacLean - A veteran who has had his moments but when asked to lead the line has been exposed

Edwards - Why?

Mulraney - It says a lot when people want him in the team because he's our only natural wide player on this list. I'm going to give him a hit though because I had no expectations whatsoever.

Dikamona - A true solid defender. Pity he's always crocked. Hopefully see more of him next season.

Burns - Too early to judge

White - Who knows?

 

So that's 18 players signed for this season (two loan renewals in Naismith and Mitchell) and 5 who you could say who have established themselves as going beyond their role in the squad. That's awful.

 

You missed out Vanacek, abysmal ??. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

You missed out Vanacek, abysmal ??. 

Fair point. 

[SuperstarSteve]

Although the boo boys at this point is understandable I honestly can’t imagine the seethe when levein takes to the dugout next season. 

Hes going nowhere. 

[Bad Religion]

6 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

Hiya Franko 

 

Answer the question.  

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Although the boo boys at this point is understandable I honestly can’t imagine the seethe when levein takes to the dugout next season. 

Hes going nowhere. 

Which is the board's call.

 

But I don't think they will need a forensic analysis to understand why the shiny new stand will have large gaps in it.

[kimosavi]

Just now, Bad Religion said:

 

Answer the question.  

Or what.

[Bad Religion]

1 minute ago, kimosavi said:

Or what.

 

I’ll take away your crayons.