Independence March Edinburgh 5th Oct

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

You asked. I answered.

 

I have noticed the First Minister is complaining about Trump's tariffs on whisky. That's what you get for prioritising trade with Lithuania over the USA.

Economy is reserved. The whole point is to manage it ourselves instead of those self serving morons in WM. I trust we could do it better with anyone other than those charlatans. Scotland is dispensable to those that fester in London. 

 

 

[coconut doug]

On 05/10/2019 at 07:44, Hasselhoff said:

Paranoid response to the first link. Nobody transcribed Salmond’s speeches in full into an article so it never happened. Nobody was arrested and charged so it never happened. Pure denial. 
 

Here Is the video of him saying It http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29142488

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/10/salmond-scottish-independence-fight-team-scotland-westminster 
 

“Mantra” - a statement or slogan repeated frequently

The leader of the SNP at the time repeatedly used the same phrase. 

 

Alex Salmond said that “Team Scotland” would triumph over “Team Westminster” in next week’s referendum as the leaders of the Westminster parties arrived in Scotland for a day of furious campaigning.

In a round of interviews made before any public appearance of David Cameron, Ed Miliband or Nick Clegg, Salmond repeatedly used the terms to cast his campaign for independence as the Scots against Westminster.

 

Nothing remotely paranoid in my response. 

 

Characterising the referendum as Team Westminster against Team Scotland is nothing to do with the mantra claimed by old Hearts. 

It's a logical if non- subtle deduction  to call the Indy movement Team Scotland. Perhaps he should have called it Team Scottish emancipation against Team Westminster, but not quite as good a sound bite.

 

   It is not evidence  that Indy supporters generally regard people who do not vote for Indy as not being Scots as the poster claimed. In fact if you listen all the way through the link you posted you will hear AS talking about persuading Unionist voters. I don't think he nor anybody else is going to convince the doubters by telling them they are not Scottish. Many people of other nationalities support Indy in Scotland and the degree to which they wish to be Scottish is up to them, same as it is with the indigenous population. For some people national identity is paramount for others peripheral, an increasing number of people just think the direction being taken by the UK is not for them. Have a look at some of the posts made by those on your side of the argument - for any reasonable person it is difficult not to see that many have a very negative view of Scotland and that makes it easy for those of us who have high hopes for our country to react in a negative way to these people and their sentiments. It is not however a mantra that they are not Scottish - we know that some of us held similar views at one time and we know that many on the Unionist side will continue to evolve and may change their views.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

18 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

This is the equivalent to claiming you won the post-match singing.

 

We said No, we meant it, we would again if asked.

 

And still Eck's trial to come. And then the aftermath and the civil war.

Why will that affect our self governance? 

[Old Hearts]

13 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Nothing remotely paranoid in my response. 

 

Characterising the referendum as Team Westminster against Team Scotland is nothing to do with the mantra claimed by old Hearts. 

It's a logical if non- subtle deduction  to call the Indy movement Team Scotland. Perhaps he should have called it Team Scottish emancipation against Team Westminster, but not quite as good a sound bite.

 

   It is not evidence  that Indy supporters generally regard people who do not vote for Indy as not being Scots as the poster claimed. In fact if you listen all the way through the link you posted you will hear AS talking about persuading Unionist voters. I don't think he nor anybody else is going to convince the doubters by telling them they are not Scottish. Many people of other nationalities support Indy in Scotland and the degree to which they wish to be Scottish is up to them, same as it is with the indigenous population. For some people national identity is paramount for others peripheral, an increasing number of people just think the direction being taken by the UK is not for them. Have a look at some of the posts made by those on your side of the argument - for any reasonable person it is difficult not to see that many have a very negative view of Scotland and that makes it easy for those of us who have high hopes for our country to react in a negative way to these people and their sentiments. It is not however a mantra that they are not Scottish - we know that some of us held similar views at one time and we know that many on the Unionist side will continue to evolve and may change their views.

 

All well and good. But Unionists have been labelled 'traitors' on this thread. 

 

[coconut doug]

1 minute ago, Old Hearts said:

All well and good. But Unionists have been labelled 'traitors' on this thread. 

 

Not by me and not by the vast majority of Indy supporters on the site. On the other hand ...

[Old Hearts]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

Not by me and not by the vast majority of Indy supporters on the site. On the other hand ...

But it has happened. And while I find the use of the word hilarious, there is just no need.

[SwindonJambo]

25 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

That’s exactly how he does it. 
Absolute banger of a man  
Bigger than any Indy weirdo and there’s plenty of them as well lol! 

 

He does indeed sound like a card carrying nut job. Lots of them on both sides and they do nothing to further their respective causes. Quite the reverse I should think. I’d say the same of marches. Good for the soul to march and sing and wave flags with thousands of other like minded souls, whatever side you’re on. If it makes them happy then good luck to them. It just inconveniences everyone else. I don’t think it proves much tbh though of course it’s 100% their right to have them. It doesn’t prove you outnumber those who hold the opposite view. The same is happening here with anti Brexit protests.

 

Reasoned and rational arguments are much more likely to win votes than  marches.

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

But it has happened. And while I find the use of the word hilarious, there is just no need.

 

Not sure you've ever caught me having a go at ri alban before, but I have and for less. Do 100% agree with you here.

[Samuel Camazzola]

On 05/10/2019 at 11:22, Sarah O said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49932819

 

Nice wee article from the beeb. 

The Council stats claim the AUOB have borrowed the Seville Calculator. 

[jake]

4 hours ago, jumpship said:

Lots of chat about this group yesterday and today. I actually know a few old firm fans who support Scottish independence.  They are not your usual knuckle dragger old firm fans either. 

Absolute cringe.

That it's even an issue says it all.

I do not like the SNP outside Tynecastle and I am not in the least interested in football clubs supporters aligning themselves with political movements.

Especially those two .

 

We have a long way to go before we are independent going by this horseshit

[jake]

4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Had such an amazing day. Regarding the protesters, it really did enrage them even worse that we all smiled and waved and invited them to join us!

 

Really had to laugh at their brass neck to make their logo a heart-shaped union flag with "A Force For Good" across it as well! Their Facebook page is nothing but butthurt and seethe.

 

 

In sharp contrast to my Georgian friend and erstwhile classmate Ivan who was all smiles all day. He was not alone in that by a longshot. As for the Unionist protesters, we discussed yesterday that they're really quite unhappy, but somehow haven't correlated that to their beliefs. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Why is a Georgian bothered so much that he goes on a Scottish independence march ?

Or was it just a day out?

And why are you ?

Or was it just a day out?

[Sarah O]

3 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

The Council stats claim the AUOB have borrowed the Seville Calculator. 

I didn't know the council were counting? How many do they estimate were there? 

[jake]

Said it before say it again.

 

Flag waving nationalism is boaking material regardless what flag.

[Samuel Camazzola]

Just now, Sarah O said:

I didn't know the council were counting? How many do they estimate were there? 

The article alludes to an event from last year where the AUOB quoted 100,000. The council claim it was 20,000.

[Old Hearts]

23 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Not sure you've ever caught me having a go at ri alban before, but I have and for less. Do 100% agree with you here.

Respect

[jumpship]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Said it before say it again.

 

Flag waving nationalism is boaking material regardless what flag.

So thousands out enjoying their day supporting Scottish independence  are going to be devastated Jake is moaning about them waving flags..

 

Their whole day is ruined...

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Sarah O said:

Oh is that how he's come up with this figure?

   

What do you expect from a liar? He must be listening to that chief clown BoJo. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Roxy Hearts

[jake]

2 minutes ago, jumpship said:

So thousands out enjoying their day supporting Scottish independence  are going to be devastated Jake is moaning about them waving flags..

 

Their whole day is ruined...

😄 

I know .

 

Tbf I'm very important in my own living room😜

[jake]

5 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

Respect

Fek off old Hearts.

 

Justin rips intae every @#$%

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Fek off old Hearts.

 

Justin rips intae every @#$%

 

 

I'll reply to your other post when not on my phone

[Herbert.]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Dear God. Does this apply to Britian and EU exit or just Scotland and independence?

 

 

Open borders are good for the UK, but the EU. Oh, the EU might feel slighted and no buy our stuff either. Poor babies.

 

 

The part about the queen and tourism was so far fetched it could be on ancient aliens. 

[jake]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

I'll reply to your other post when not on my phone

Aw naw .

I'm gettin ripped on the laptop.

 

Ok bud I'm away to get my ky

[Justin Z]

Just now, jake said:

Aw naw .

I'm gettin ripped on the laptop.

 

Ok bud I'm away to get my ky

 

Not much to rip you for, happy to answer the questions and disagree with your assertion about nationalism calmly and soberly 😂

 

[jake]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Not much to rip you for, happy to answer the questions and disagree with your assertion about nationalism calmly and soberly 😂

 

Like I said.

 

Aw naw

[ri Alban]

 

A JZ v Jake cyber square go, to keep Sunday from it's usual boredom.

[Justin Z]

😂 Ahhh, love you crazy Jambos.

[gjcc]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Rumoured he hands out £20 and a UJ to people in pubs to stand and wave them where’s he’s shouting through his megaphone. 
Claims he watches all the videos of these marches and actualky counts everybody in them  

If this level of weirdo was on the Indy side you’d hear a lot more about it I reckon. 

 

Is that the bloke that was employed by the Orange Order during the last referendum? The Gas Chamber denier? The bloke who was barred from UKIP?

 

Sounds a decent bloke. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, gjcc said:

 

Is that the bloke that was employed by the Orange Order during the last referendum? The Gas Chamber denier? The bloke who was barred from UKIP?

 

Sounds a decent bloke. 

Na that’s another absolute melt. He’s the Question time, Orange jacket wearing Rangers, England, brexit, Trump, Israel you name it ****ing clown. 

Hes a good Scotsman tho. 

[JyTees]

5 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

That banner had my Rangers supporting pals shaking with rage yesterday  
 

 

Rightly so. Would you support and stand behind a similar Edinburgh banner?

[Roxy Hearts]

30 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

Rightly so. Would you support and stand behind a similar Edinburgh banner?

Yes, I've got family and friends who support Hibs. They're our rivals and love beating them but the governance of our country is more important than a game of football. 

[jack D and coke]

43 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

Rightly so. Would you support and stand behind a similar Edinburgh banner?

Some of my best pals are hibbies and I was best man for one of them. I’m not sure I’d be actually be behind that banner but I don’t have a problem with it. 

I don’t like the James Connolly stuff I’ll admit they should be chased with that nonsense. 

[Justin Z]

5 hours ago, jake said:

Why is a Georgian bothered so much that he goes on a Scottish independence march ?

Or was it just a day out?

And why are you ?

Or was it just a day out?

 

Right, sorry about the delay Jake.

 

I think the best answer as to why I was out there is actually in the words of my best Scottish friend Dan when we cemented the plan to meet up:

 

"It feels entirely appropriate to march with someone who epitomises what Scotland means to me". It was one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me. "Your love of Scotland is no less than mine," he continued. "I'll be privileged to walk with you." And then as I explained to someone else, it was so touching because he views Scotland as a place of inclusivity, togetherness, and caring about your fellow human being. He said to Ivan, my Georgian friend, and Andris, my Chilean housemate, yesterday too--"This is the Scotland I want the world to see. I want people to come here and feel welcomed and at home and excited to become Scottish themselves. This is it."

 

I agree with all of that and I have always said that Scots' friendly and inclusive attitude towards me has been one of my favourite things about getting to spend so much time here. From a practical standpoint, if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014, I would likely already have leave to remain here. As it stands, I have to get sponsored for a work permit through the UK Home Office's rules by March or I will have to leave, and I already had to go take another degree just to have the opportunity to get sponsored in a more accessible way than normal (it's complicated but I can explain further if you want).

Ivan was talking to me about seeing a lot of similarities between Georgia/Russia and Scotland/England, both historically and contemporarily. He was in my Human Rights master's programme and I asked him to come with me. He really didn't know what to expect and was telling me that there is always violence at Georgian protests so I actually really appreciated his bravery not knowing that this would be nothing like that.  

 

There was, certainly, a day out element to it all too, and at one point seated around a table drinking together at the Brauhaus on Lauriston Place were four Scots, two Americans, a Chilean, a Georgian, a Canadian, and a Finn. Just ****ing quality.

As for Nationalism, let us just suffice to say I feel it is not a terribly accurate thing to do, to paint them as somehow all the same, or even slightly related to each other. Scottish Nationalism is an outward-looking, inclusive one. The First Minister has said on multiple occasions--and so have other members of the Scottish and Westminster governments--that if you want to be Scottish, just come and be Scottish. To want to control their own destiny and to welcome people with open arms to the country simply does not compare to, for example, the sort of nationalism I saw in the States--xenophobic, jingoistic, "patriotically correct".

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Justin Z

[JyTees]

24 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Some of my best pals are hibbies and I was best man for one of them. I’m not sure I’d be actually be behind that banner but I don’t have a problem with it. 

I don’t like the James Connolly stuff I’ll admit they should be chased with that nonsense. 

39 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Yes, I've got family and friends who support Hibs. They're our rivals and love beating them but the governance of our country is more important than a game of football. 

 

Football and politics, Hearts and Hibs, both mutually exclusive. The banner should rightly be ridiculed.

[pablo]

@Justin Z you are aware that many Scots who favour the status quo are just as inclusive, liberal and hospitable as those who favour independence?

 

Otherwise it wouldn't be the country that you feel such affection for.

 

I hope the practicalities of your personal situation sort themselves out satisfactorily and you are able to stay with us and contribute to this place, as long as you wish👍

[Justin Z]

Just now, pablo said:

@Justin Z you are aware that many Scots who favour the status quo are just as inclusive, liberal and hospitable as those who favour independence?

 

Otherwise it wouldn't be the country that you feel such affection for.

 

I hope the practicalities of your personal situation sort themselves out satisfactorily and you are able to stay with us and contribute to this place, as long as you wish👍

 

Oh I most certainly do, and quite right to point it out! I don't hold any ill will for people who are simply in favour of unionism, whether strongly or more mildly "No"s. I am positive that of the scores of Scots I've encountered throughout my time here, a great many of them have not been independence supporters. I do feel, rightly or wrongly, that those in favour of independence have a workable plan to make that welcoming and inclusive attitude true national policy--and that is an exciting prospect to me.

 

I appreciate the well wishes!

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

@Justin Z you are aware that many Scots who favour the status quo are just as inclusive, liberal and hospitable as those who favour independence?

 

Otherwise it wouldn't be the country that you feel such affection for.

 

I hope the practicalities of your personal situation sort themselves out satisfactorily and you are able to stay with us and contribute to this place, as long as you wish👍

Cant disagree with that however; Westminster controls immigration. Who stays, who goes is not up to Scotgov. Good enough reason to support a change in that policy and many others 

[manaliveits105]

Scottish Police estimate 20000

[gjcc]

28 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scottish Police estimate 20000

 

Not seen that reported anywhere. Source?

[North Berwick Jambo]

The amount of seethe on here from some is delicious 😋

 

I am glad I missed the game on Saturday, I  had a fantastic time at the march with my family in such an amazing atmosphere! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Roll on October 3rd 2020 😉 

[Sarah O]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scottish Police estimate 20000

How do people come up with these estimates? Nobody knows. What we can say for sure is that it's alot. 

 

The below image doesn't contain the many more people in Holyrood.

 

[gjcc]

7 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

How do people come up with these estimates? Nobody knows. What we can say for sure is that it's alot. 

 

The below image doesn't contain the many more people in Holyrood.

 

 

Definite photoshop. Those arrows weren’t there. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scottish Police estimate 20000

I've seen it reported in reference to a previous march but I've searched the police Scotland website and the city council website and can't find this official figure if 20,000 anywhere.

Got a link?

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scottish Police estimate 20000

You have the mindset of one of those Rangers fans who are so blind to reality, you have to question their capabilities. If it suits your agenda, bash on. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Roxy Hearts

[Old Hearts]

27 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

How do people come up with these estimates? Nobody knows. What we can say for sure is that it's alot. 

 

The below image doesn't contain the many more people in Holyrood.

 

100% genuine. No doubt.

 

😂😂😂

[Sarah O]

1 minute ago, Old Hearts said:

100% genuine. No doubt.

 

😂😂😂

I was there

 

As I said, this photo does not contain everyone. RIP The UK. 

[Old Hearts]

Just now, Sarah O said:

I was there

 

As I said, this photo does not contain everyone. RIP The UK. 

You were there in the plane/drone that took the photo? .... Cool 👍🤣

[Francis Albert]

The guardian claimed 200000 attended. Mmmm. Or reported that the organisers said so without any contradiction.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

There did seem to be the whiff of Nuremberg about it.

 

[Randy Marsh]

4 hours ago, Sarah O said:

How do people come up with these estimates? Nobody knows. What we can say for sure is that it's alot. 

 

The below image doesn't contain the many more people in Holyrood.

 

Looks like about a million to me.  Good stuff.  Not my cup of tea but looking forward to our independence in the near future.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Randy Marsh said:

Looks like about a million to me.  Good stuff.  Not my cup of tea but looking forward to our independence in the near future.

At least a couple of million at the 1998 cup final  parade then