Independence March Edinburgh 5th Oct

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Old Hearts said:

Love reading your posts. Reaffirms to me why I voted NO 😎😎

There's perfectly valid reasons for voting No. We're not going to convince people to vote for self governance by insulting them and we've all been guilty of it. I have mates who voted No but are now yes and I insulted them and them me but we also had reasonable discussions. It's the direction the UK is going in that convinced them. I honestly can't believe that fair-minded Scots think that Johnson, Gove, Farage and their ilk can run our affairs better than a government of our own choosing. 

[Old Hearts]

10 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

There's perfectly valid reasons for voting No. We're not going to convince people to vote for self governance by insulting them and we've all been guilty of it. I have mates who voted No but are now yes and I insulted them and them me but we also had reasonable discussions. It's the direction the UK is going in that convinced them. I honestly can't believe that fair-minded Scots think that Johnson, Gove, Farage and their ilk can run our affairs better than a government of our own choosing. 

You have a valid point about Johnson, Gove, Farage etc. I will give you that ..... But I equally don't trust likes of Sturgeon, Cherry, Blackford either. Especially the latter after his disgusting behaviour towards Charles Kennedy.

[Roxy Hearts]

8 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

You have a valid point about Johnson, Gove, Farage etc. I will give you that ..... But I equally don't trust likes of Sturgeon, Cherry, Blackford either. Especially the latter after his disgusting behaviour towards Charles Kennedy.

It's what would happen OH after the vote. We would choose the government we want with a Scottish General Election. That's the point and I liked Charles Kennedy but loathe his party and the clueless hypocrites that infest it now, Jardine, Rennie, Swinson, Cole-Hamilton ffs! 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Roxy Hearts

[Old Hearts]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

It's what would happen OH after the vote. We would choose the government we want with a Scottish General Election. That's the point and I liked Charles Kennedy but loath his party and the clueless hypocrites that infest it now, Jardine, Rennie, Swinson, Cole-Hamilton ffs! 

Yes, I get that Roxy, but as many have pointed out, the SNP are here governing in Scotland for the foreseeable. Are they suddenly going to disappear and retire because (if) they win Independence?? I very much doubt it. Will the electorate suddenly stop voting for them? Again, I doubt it.

 

What is worse is that you will have SNP MPs like the aforementioned Cherry and Blackford wanting to be MSPs 🙄

 

Have no time for the Lib Dems and the people you mention either. Something we agree on 👍🤣

[Old Hearts]

10 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

You do realise a vote for independence doesn’t mean the SNP get to govern forever?

 

There’s a strong chance a post independence general election would see a huge change in government. 
 

I think we’ll find out in a few years. Yes started off at the start of the last referendum at 28%, this time they’ll be starting off on a much larger percentage they don’t need to persuade. 
 

I personally think independence is inevitable given the utter shit-show in Westminster. 

And by the same token, the current zoompots in charge at Westminster will not govern forever either. 🤔

[Alan_R]

2 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

Yes, I get that Roxy, but as many have pointed out, the SNP are here governing in Scotland for the foreseeable. Are they suddenly going to disappear and retire because (if) they win Independence?? I very much doubt it. Will the electorate suddenly stop voting for them? Again, I doubt it.

 

What is worse is that you will have SNP MPs like the aforementioned Cherry and Blackford wanting to be MSPs 🙄

 

Have no time for the Lib Dems and the people you mention either. Something we agree on 👍🤣

Im strongly in favour of independence.

But your arguement above doesnt really hold any water for me. Its not a reason to vote against independence in itself.

ie for arguements sake lets say if is SNP for the foreseable v the current conservative shambles for the foreseable. You don't have to be a lover of the snp to see the lesser of those two evils.

And ultimately whatever your political views independence at least offers a bit hope for the shake up of home politics.

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

Yes, I get that Roxy, but as many have pointed out, the SNP are here governing in Scotland for the foreseeable. Are they suddenly going to disappear and retire because (if) they win Independence?? I very much doubt it. Will the electorate suddenly stop voting for them? Again, I doubt it.

 

What is worse is that you will have SNP MPs like the aforementioned Cherry and Blackford wanting to be MSPs 🙄

 

Have no time for the Lib Dems and the people you mention either. Something we agree on 👍🤣

 

I think there will be new parties formed after independence.

I'll vote snp but I haven't always, and I'm not that into quite a lot of what they do. I'd be looking for someone else to represent my views post- independence, but right now the SNP are the ones carrying the independence flag so they have my general support.

 

They might not disappear after Scotland gains its freedom but they won't be able to stop their voters drifting to other parties, I think there are a lot of people in the same boat as me. 

[Old Hearts]

Just now, Alan_R said:

Im strongly in favour of independence.

But your arguement above doesnt really hold any water for me. Its not a reason to vote against independence in itself.

ie for arguements sake lets say if is SNP for the foreseable v the current conservative shambles for the foreseable. You don't have to be a lover of the snp to see the lesser of those two evils.

And ultimately whatever your political views independence at least offers a bit hope for the shake up of home politics.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone Alan_R. I agree that the CURRENT Conservative government is indeed a shambles as you describe. But they will not last forever either.

[Old Hearts]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

I think there will be new parties formed after independence.

I'll vote snp but I haven't always, and I'm not that into quite a lot of what they do. I'd be looking for someone else to represent my views post- independence, but right now the SNP are the ones carrying the independence flag so they have my general support.

 

They might not disappear after Scotland gains its freedom but they won't be able to stop their voters drifting to other parties, I think there are a lot of people in the same boat as me. 

You may well be right about new parties being formed. That's an interesting point. A move away from the traditional 'mainstream'.

 

I'm just not convinced that, if it stays with the current mainstream parties, voters will indeed drift away from SNP. From what I have seen both on here and in general, is that supporters seem fiercely loyal to SNP. 

[Alan_R]

Just now, Old Hearts said:

I'm not trying to argue with anyone Alan_R. I agree that the CURRENT Conservative government is indeed a shambles as you describe. But they will not last forever either.

Nor me.

I just think recent history has told us we are on a hiding to nothing when it comes to westminster. The UK no longer offers the stability it once did.

I'd have to hear a very strong arguement to convince me that we wouldn't be better off to make our own path.

For the record, I love England. Had my honeymoon in York and theres plenty of great cities and places. I think we'd be great neighbours. I hope that independence is the catalyst for a huge shake up of UK politics, it needs it!
 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Old Hearts said:

You may well be right about new parties being formed. That's an interesting point. A move away from the traditional 'mainstream'.

 

I'm just not convinced that, if it stays with the current mainstream parties, voters will indeed drift away from SNP. From what I have seen both on here and in general, is that supporters seem fiercely loyal to SNP. 

 

I'd say more fiercely pro- independence, and therefore right behind the only party in town. 

 

[Old Hearts]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

I honestly wouldn’t bet on that.

Haha true. But the current Conservative government are up against probably the weakest Labour party in decades who are in total dissarray......but they STILL can't hold an overall majority 🙈

[Old Hearts]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

You’re right. My entire family used to vote labour. All of us. 
 

Now every single one of us votes SNP. 
 

That will undoubtedly change after independence. 

Really?? Would you all really flock back to supporting Labour?? 

[Auld Reekin']

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

...I think there are a lot of people in the same boat as me. 

 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

You’re right. My entire family used to vote labour. All of us. 
 

Now every single one of us votes SNP. 
 

That will undoubtedly change after independence. 

 

Makes sense, I'd be looking for a party that's quite lefty but not as authoritarian as the SNP. 

Maybe it would be labour, maybe not, it's impossible to know what the political landscape will look like. 

[Roxy Hearts]

39 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

Yes, I get that Roxy, but as many have pointed out, the SNP are here governing in Scotland for the foreseeable. Are they suddenly going to disappear and retire because (if) they win Independence?? I very much doubt it. Will the electorate suddenly stop voting for them? Again, I doubt it.

 

What is worse is that you will have SNP MPs like the aforementioned Cherry and Blackford wanting to be MSPs 🙄

 

Have no time for the Lib Dems and the people you mention either. Something we agree on 👍🤣

I currently vote SNP as I want self governance and think they do a fairly decent job. They don't get everything thing right but what party/government does? I would vote very differently in a self governing Scotland and it wouldn't be Labour. 👍

Edited October 11, 2019 by Roxy Hearts

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

I don’t know yet OH. It would depend as Smithee says on the make-up of the parties and their policies but I would vote central/left/green that’s for sure. 
 

The Labour Party would most likely be a completely different organisation post independence. 

 

It's also key that proportional representation in Scotland would mean that smaller parties would genuinely have more of a voice. I think we'd see more parties than ever before with the vote spread far and wide. Groups of parties with similar beliefs would probably form on certain issues and consensus government would become the norm. 

 

Hope, hope!

 

Re the bit in bold, of the current parties the greens would surely be obvious beneficiaries, so many people seem to share your view.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Smithee

[Old Hearts]

Interesting take on things tonight. Food for thought. 🤔 ..... Thanks for indulging this 'Traitor' and 'Uncle Tom' guys 👍

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Old Hearts said:

Interesting take on things tonight. Food for thought. 🤔 ..... Thanks for indulging this 'Traitor' and 'Uncle Tom' guys 👍

 

👍

 

I'd like to add that far from **** England, I'm in favour of forming a union with them in terms of freedom of movement, free trade etc.

We may be frustrated that our voice counts for little in this current union but England are our oldest and closest friends and we're culturally and practically intertwined in so many centuries old ways.

 

It's about self determination for Scotland and redefining our relationship with the rest of the UK for me. 

[Roxy Hearts]

24 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

Interesting take on things tonight. Food for thought. 🤔 ..... Thanks for indulging this 'Traitor' and 'Uncle Tom' guys 👍

Enjoy the rest of your evening OH. 👌

[Old Hearts]

21 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

👍

 

I'd like to add that far from **** England, I'm in favour of forming a union with them in terms of freedom of movement, free trade etc.

We may be frustrated that our voice counts for little in this current union but England are our oldest and closest friends and we're culturally and practically intertwined in so many centuries old ways.

 

It's about self determination for Scotland and redefining our relationship with the rest of the UK for me. 

Perhaps if the promises of Devo Max had been more adhered to, we would all be in a bit of a different space? .... Maybe, maybe not. 🤔 

[Old Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Enjoy the rest of your evening OH. 👌

👍 And to you Sir

[Unknown user]

Just now, Old Hearts said:

Perhaps if the promises of Devo Max had been more adhered to, we would all be in a bit of a different space? .... Maybe, maybe not. 🤔 

Perhaps, I don't worry about these things though, all I know is that Westminster doesn't serve Scotland in the way we deserve so something has to be done.