Levein - stay or go. New poll (15.9.19)

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

The fact that you even hint that the current situation might persist until January kinda reinforces the view I stated above to be honest.

 

Given the amount we as a club invest in the football department, especially when compared tot the budgets of our competitors, we should in

my opinion be able to cope

much better despite the injuries.

 

Yeah but let's be honest here. We're missing half a team of first picks, just like last season. No other club faced that last season or is facing it this season. A club our size can't afford like for like replacements for these players. Aberdeen have bad injury worries this season, but even then they still have their main man Cosgrove. Without him, they'd be as screwed as us.

Edited October 3, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Jodami]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Absolutely. Meshino, Naismith and Walker were all signed to address that though, not to mention bringing in footballing defenders like Souttar and Halkett, so hopefully we'll get to see them all play together as intended. The fact that 4 of those 5 are injured shows just how bad injuries are affecting us.

But it's not enough to just to sign better quality players, we need coaches who have a better idea on how to set teams up and coach players on how the ball should be moved. The coaches in place are inexperienced and are not being developed and there is no relationship between how younger age groups and the first team play. Unless that changes there won't be sustainable progress.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Jodami said:

But it's not enough to just to sign better quality players, we need coaches who have a better idea on how to set teams up and coach players on how the ball should be moved. The coaches in place are inexperienced and are not being developed and there is no relationship between how younger age groups and the first team play. Unless that changes there won't be sustainable progress.

 

I have no idea about how we're coached. Can you expand on it form your knowledge? All I know as a fan on the outside is we played well with everyone fit and we've brought in young players who have played very well when selected. Some players we've brought in have developed and got better.

 

Is that not all in part down to the coaches? Michael Smith is probably playing the best football of his career for example. Naismith was brilliant before his injury.  Mulraney is better than when he started. We turned around Souttar's career. Halkett would have been in this Scotland squad. McLaughlin got a move to a big club down south. Walker when he started looked a much better, more committed player than the one who left us. Haring has been transformed by us into one of if not the best DMs in the league last season. Hickey... There are successes if you're willing to acknowledge them.

Edited October 3, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Bazzas right boot]

18 minutes ago, Jodami said:

We won't be fighting relegation because we have enough quality in the squad to win games down to individuals, the Naismith effect from last year if you like. 

I agree on the defensive mistakes (not helped by changing personnel and formation too much) but the attacking issue is much more than a cutting edge from strikers. We have an issue with attacking transition, moving the ball through midfield to the forwards and creating chances. It's one dimensional, crosses going into the box or fighting for second ball in the final third. The only way to make any sustained impact is improve the coaching, which would require changes. 

 

 

I agree in general with the sentiment, but we have scored enough this season. 

 

2 goals v Hamilton, Motherwell at home usually sees us win them. Defensive howlers cost us. 

 

Even 2 at aberdeen would have been good for at least a  point normally. 

 

Without the defensive lapses and even with our injuries and limited attacking penetration we could easily have had 7 - 9 points extra. 

 

Our individual errors at the most basic level has cost us imo. 

 

Hibs and Motherwell away we were hardly creating chance after chance but because we scored two and defended like a football team- we won. 

 

We need to sort it tho and a win v Killie will help start to  reverse our awful home form. 

 

In regards to CL, he has the players onside, that is also key to this from both prospectives of keeping him and removing him. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Smith's right boot

[Jodami]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I have no idea about how we're coached. Can you expand on it form your knowledge?

 

All I know as a fan on the outside is we played well with everyone fit and we've brought in young players who have played very well when selected. Some players we've brought in have developed and got better. Is that not in part down to the coaches? Michael Smith is probably playing the best football of his career for example. Naismith was brilliant before his injury.  Mulraney is better than when he started. We turned around Souttar's career. Halkett would have been in this Scotland squad. McLaughlin got a move to a big club down south. Walker when he started looked a much better, more committed player than the one who left us. Haring has been transformed by us into one of if not the best DMs in the league last season. Hickey... There are successes if you're willing to acknowledge them.

Watching teams, particularly live, it's apparent how teams are set up and what they are trying to do. You don't need to be a professional to understand this, I think most fans are more astute than many people in the game either want to admit or give credit for. 

 

Naismith was the difference last season, more than double the amount of points were gained per game when he started. Clearly though, due to his age and recurring injury issues we can't and in fact shouldn't be playing him every week. This is an issue going back to November last year, the fateful moment in the semi final at Murrayfield was the turning point in hindsight, a significant amount of time. For all these positives relating to players you have outlined why are we sitting in ninth this season and why have we been so appalling for months?

 

The squad is not punching its weight and that situation never ends with the players all being sacked. Coaching takes time, requires knowledge and inexperienced people need guidance. If you want to understand the impact of coaching look at Levein's first spell and his impact on Andy Webster. He made Webster and that defence was consistently excellent. At that point he was a tracksuit manager. I don't understand why Levein has not got more directly involved or brought more experienced coaches in. Inexperienced coaches need to be coached. With better coaches I think we would see significant improvement.

 

[JamboAl]

47 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

The fact that you even hint that the current situation might persist until January kinda reinforces the view I stated above to be honest.

 

Given the amount we as a club invest in the football department, especially when compared tot the budgets of our competitors, we should in my opinion be able to cope much better despite the injuries.

Can you tell us what the respective budgets are that you are comparing?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Watching teams, particularly live, it's apparent how teams are set up and what they are trying to do. You don't need to be a professional to understand this, I think most fans are more astute than many people in the game either want to admit or give credit for. 

 

Naismith was the difference last season, more than double the amount of points were gained per game when he started. Clearly though, due to his age and recurring injury issues we can't and in fact shouldn't be playing him every week. This is an issue going back to November last year, the fateful moment in the semi final at Murrayfield was the turning point in hindsight, a significant amount of time. For all these positives relating to players you have outlined why are we sitting in ninth this season and why have we been so appalling for months?

 

The squad is not punching its weight and that situation never ends with the players all being sacked. Coaching takes time, requires knowledge and inexperienced people need guidance. If you want to understand the impact of coaching look at Levein's first spell and his impact on Andy Webster. He made Webster and that defence was consistently excellent. At that point he was a tracksuit manager. I don't understand why Levein has not got more directly involved or brought more experienced coaches in. Inexperienced coaches need to be coached. With better coaches I think we would see significant improvement.

 

 

I agree with you but that was last season. It wasn't just Naismith we missed. Uche was a big miss too. We basically had McLean as our only striker for months, a guy signed to be a bit part player. On top of that our first choice International CB pairing was also injured. I'm baffled why some so called Hearts fans are so unwilling to acknowledge the part our injuries played.

 

To Levein's credit, and Budge for financing it, we then addressed the reliance on one or two players when attacking by signing Meshino, Walker and Washington. Two of them are now injured of course. We also addressed the lack of defensive cover by signing Halkett, who is now injured. Thank goodness for Whelan... crossed fingers.

[Jodami]

21 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I agree with you but that was last season. It wasn't just Naismith we missed. Uche was a big miss too. We basically had McLean as our only striker for months, a guy signed to be a bit part player. On top of that our first choice International CB pairing was also injured. I'm baffled why some so called Hearts fans are so unwilling to acknowledge the part our injuries played.

 

To Levein's credit, and Budge for financing it, we then addressed the reliance on one or two players when attacking by signing Meshino, Walker and Washington. Two of them are now injured of course. We also addressed the lack of defensive cover by signing Halkett, who is now injured. Thank goodness for Whelan... crossed fingers.

We didn't do anything about signing a striker as we had already signed Vanecek, which was an utter disaster. If we had done business like Hibs did with McNulty then that could have made a real impact. 

 

It's not a last season issue and this season issue, it's a sustained malaise. We have better players but even in the League Cup league section games the same issues  persisted. That was with the vast majority of the squad available. What I am saying and as you are aware I have consistently said for several months is that I think we have a real coaching issue and unless that changes we won't see us string together a sequence of wins to turn things around.

[Coolio]

2 hours ago, Morgan said:

Not ‘our club’ then?

 

Been on holiday?

 

This.

 

A vermin troll who is not the brightest and has so little in his life that he simply can't stay away.

[Prof]

9 hours ago, JamboAl said:

You'll have to make up your mind.

You say that I am claiming "it's all a blip" and now you're saying I support Hibs.

Which is it?

Both

[Cut The Crap]

7 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Can you tell us what the respective budgets are that you are comparing?

 

There are indicative stats readily available, none of which appear to be disputed by the clubs reported on. For example:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/547202/average-annual-first-team-player-salaray-football-clubs-scottish-premiership/

 

Before you get all excited and embark on your usual crusade on this topic, understand that this is simply my opinion based on available data.

 

Your opinion seems to be that it's fine that the fourth highest budget delivers bottom three performance. That's entirely your prerogative.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, Cut The Crap said:

 

There are indicative stats readily available, none of which appear to be disputed by the clubs reported on. For example:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/547202/average-annual-first-team-player-salaray-football-clubs-scottish-premiership/

 

Before you get all excited and embark on your usual crusade on this topic, understand that this is simply my opinion based on available data.

 

Your opinion seems to be that it's fine that the fourth highest budget delivers bottom three performance. That's entirely your prerogative.

 

👏

[JamboAl]

59 minutes ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

There are indicative stats readily available, none of which appear to be disputed by the clubs reported on. For example:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/547202/average-annual-first-team-player-salaray-football-clubs-scottish-premiership/

 

Before you get all excited and embark on your usual crusade on this topic, understand that this is simply my opinion based on available data.

 

Your opinion seems to be that it's fine that the fourth highest budget delivers bottom three performance. That's entirely your prerogative.

You're the one on the crusade, mate, to continually down the club.

I know it's your opinion but your opinion must surely have some substance, some basis.  This oft peddled myth may be true in terms of turnover but as I've said often enough, it's what's avaiilable as a PLAYING budget that matters and as we continue to build the club ON and OFF the field there are many calls on our disposable income that other clubs may not have.

Another point to consider is that if we were able to spend £5m on 5 players what advantage is that if they're all out injured at the same time?

[Spoleto]

9 hours ago, Jodami said:

Watching teams, particularly live, it's apparent how teams are set up and what they are trying to do. You don't need to be a professional to understand this, I think most fans are more astute than many people in the game either want to admit or give credit for. 

 

Naismith was the difference last season, more than double the amount of points were gained per game when he started. Clearly though, due to his age and recurring injury issues we can't and in fact shouldn't be playing him every week. This is an issue going back to November last year, the fateful moment in the semi final at Murrayfield was the turning point in hindsight, a significant amount of time. For all these positives relating to players you have outlined why are we sitting in ninth this season and why have we been so appalling for months?

 

The squad is not punching its weight and that situation never ends with the players all being sacked. Coaching takes time, requires knowledge and inexperienced people need guidance. If you want to understand the impact of coaching look at Levein's first spell and his impact on Andy Webster. He made Webster and that defence was consistently excellent. At that point he was a tracksuit manager. I don't understand why Levein has not got more directly involved or brought more experienced coaches in. Inexperienced coaches need to be coached. With better coaches I think we would see significant improvement.

 

 

I don't know why people persist with this myth that Naismith is the difference, unless it's an attempt to suit some sort of weird agenda. 

 

It's a lie, pure and simple.

 

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

I don't know why people persist with this myth that Naismith is the difference, unless it's an attempt to suit some sort of weird agenda. 

 

It's a lie, pure and simple.

 

 

It is an opinion not a lie. Suggesting the poster you quoted is telling deliberate lies is an outrageous and unacceptable slur against a fellow hearts supporter with no real foundation.

 

you just don’t seem able to post without chucking insults about

Edited October 4, 2019 by GinRummy

[Spoleto]

12 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

It is an opinion not a lie. Suggesting the poster you quoted is telling deliberate lies is an outrageous and unacceptable slur against a fellow hearts supporter with no real foundation.

 

you just don’t seem able to post without chucking insults about

 

Of course it's a lie. 

 

If it was an opinion it would be a stupid opinion though.

[Gambo]

21 hours ago, Noah Claypole said:

 

 

my eyes tell me all I need to know about how we play. I enjoy it. 

 

 

 

That is a cracker, even from you.

Even Levein and Budge would agree we are not enjoyable to watch. We all love watching Hearts but to say how we play is enjoyable is a cracker.

[Gambo]

21 hours ago, Noah Claypole said:

 

I suspect your only experience is on the Xbox, you certainly post like it is.

 

 

Underperformed, what a load of old media speak bullshit, 

 

 

So our level is 9th?

 

Or do you think we should be higher than 9th?

[GinRummy]

Just now, Gambo said:

So our level is 9th?

 

Or do you think we should be higher than 9th?

 

Doubt we will be ninth after first round of fixtures. We’ve got some tough games ahead..

[wavydavy]

54 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

I don't know why people persist with this myth that Naismith is the difference, unless it's an attempt to suit some sort of weird agenda. 

 

It's a lie, pure and simple.

 

 

So why did CL give Naismith a four year deal at nearly 33 years of age if he doesn't think he is the difference?

[Jodami]

46 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

It is an opinion not a lie. Suggesting the poster you quoted is telling deliberate lies is an outrageous and unacceptable slur against a fellow hearts supporter with no real foundation.

 

you just don’t seem able to post without chucking insults about

Cheers Gin, don't worry about it though. Some posters I refuse to engage with this as they're clearly trolls. Poster in question has hid away for 10 years and now appears to agitate on certain subjects. 

It's a shame as polarising debate cheapens it quickly. Good to speak to people who disagree but want to discuss like Toque for example but it's really not worth entertaining posters who are only interested in the wind up. 

[Spoleto]

9 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

So why did CL give Naismith a four year deal at nearly 33 years of age if he doesn't think he is the difference?

 

That's a good question. Why did he?

 

Is Naismith to be the next manager perhaps?

[wavydavy]

3 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

That's a good question. Why did he?

 

Is Naismith to be the next manager perhaps?

 

You seem to be the expert so I thought you would enlighten us all.

[Spoleto]

16 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

You seem to be the expert so I thought you would enlighten us all.

 

Not an expert by any manner of means.

 

Just smarter than your average Levein hating troll/sheep.

[Cut The Crap]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

You're the one on the crusade, mate, to continually down the club.

I know it's your opinion but your opinion must surely have some substance, some basis.  This oft peddled myth may be true in terms of turnover but as I've said often enough, it's what's avaiilable as a PLAYING budget that matters and as we continue to build the club ON and OFF the field there are many calls on our disposable income that other clubs may not have.

Another point to consider is that if we were able to spend £5m on 5 players what advantage is that if they're all out injured at the same time?

 

As far as I can tell, the link I included in my last post relates solely to playing budget. I very much doubt we are diverting a disproportionate percentage of ours funds to other projects. I believe this has been confirmed by Dr Budge. It therefore seems eminently reasonable to conclude that we pay more for our squad than everyone outside Celtic, Rangers, and Aberdeen.

 

I also think you'd struggle to find any evidence on here of me continually doing the club down. Quite the reverse in fact.

 

With that said, we should probably leave this discussion there. I can already sense your ire increasing and I know how your interactions generally develop from this point on. I've no desire to get dragged into an argument or find myself pursued around the board by you.

 

Enjoy your weekend!

 

 

[Morgan]

10 hours ago, Coolio said:

 

This.

 

A vermin troll who is not the brightest and has so little in his life that he simply can't stay away.

That just about sums him up.  

[wavydavy]

50 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Not an expert by any manner of means.

 

Just smarter than your average Levein hating troll/sheep.

 

You seem to have a thing about sheep!!!!

[Spoleto]

1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

You seem to have a thing about sheep!!!!

 

I've got nothing against sheep - I just don't believe people should behave like them.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

As far as I can tell, the link I included in my last post relates solely to playing budget. I very much doubt we are diverting a disproportionate percentage of ours funds to other projects. I believe this has been confirmed by Dr Budge. It therefore seems eminently reasonable to conclude that we pay more for our squad than everyone outside Celtic, Rangers, and Aberdeen.

 

I also think you'd struggle to find any evidence on here of me continually doing the club down. Quite the reverse in fact.

 

With that said, we should probably leave this discussion there. I can already sense your ire increasing and I know how your interactions generally develop from this point on. I've no desire to get dragged into an argument or find myself pursued around the board by you.

 

Enjoy your weekend!

 

 

My ire is not increasing so don't use that as an excuse to bail out when you're struggling.

The highlighted parts show all your thoughts are based on supposition and lack hard facts.

I also said that even if we were able to  spend £5m on 5 players, what advantage would that be if they're all injured at the same time.  You conveniently ignored, or maybe just overlooked, these words.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

 

I've got nothing against sheep - I just don't believe people should behave like them.

 

Bah, stop bleeting about it then.

[Pasquale for King]

7 hours ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

There are indicative stats readily available, none of which appear to be disputed by the clubs reported on. For example:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/547202/average-annual-first-team-player-salaray-football-clubs-scottish-premiership/

 

Before you get all excited and embark on your usual crusade on this topic, understand that this is simply my opinion based on available data.

 

Your opinion seems to be that it's fine that the fourth highest budget delivers bottom three performance. That's entirely your prerogative.

Good post, he will deflect from it and move in another direction as he usually does when he asks this question on a weekly basis it would seem. Best to put him on ignore and never read his posts 👍🏽.

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, Spoleto said:

 

I don't know why people persist with this myth that Naismith is the difference, unless it's an attempt to suit some sort of weird agenda. 

 

It's a lie, pure and simple.

 

The evidence shows that we are a far better team with Naismith in it, we fell off a cliff from the top of the league when he was injured, Look at how well we played when he came on up at Aberdeen in August. I would’ve though a self claimed above average intelligentsia like yourself would know that?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/the-incredible-statistics-which-highlight-steven-naismith-s-importance-to-hearts-1-4931656

[Spoleto]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The evidence shows that we are a far better team with Naismith in it, we fell off a cliff from the top of the league when he was injured, Look at how well we played when he came on up at Aberdeen in August. I would’ve though a self claimed above average intelligentsia like yourself would know that?

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/the-incredible-statistics-which-highlight-steven-naismith-s-importance-to-hearts-1-4931656

 

The evidence shows no such thing. As well as Naismith being out we also had Uche and Souttar out, amongst others.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Spoleto said:

 

The evidence shows no such thing. As well as Naismith being out we also had Uche and Souttar out, amongst others.

We were still top of the league until Naismith got injured, the other players had been adequately replaced. The manager and his coaches in their own words couldn’t come up with a plan to compensate for his loss. He is vital to the team, not only as a player but as a coach on the pitch. For anyone to claim this is a lie when the facts show otherwise is nonsense.

[Spoleto]

41 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We were still top of the league until Naismith got injured, the other players had been adequately replaced. The manager and his coaches in their own words couldn’t come up with a plan to compensate for his loss. He is vital to the team, not only as a player but as a coach on the pitch. For anyone to claim this is a lie when the facts show otherwise is nonsense.

 

We adequately replaced other key players?

 

Really? 

 

Who replaced Haring, who replaced Souttar and who replaced Ikpeazu?

[JFK-1]

I feel it goes without saying that labeling Naismith a key player would amount to an understatement. I would deem a fit Naismith to be the first name on a Levein first 11.

 

A fit Naismith doesn't just provide goals - the very presence of such quality creates disturbances in opposition setups that can develop into openings for others.

The kind of player who provides that qualitative edge required to frequently get that odd goal for a result of any kind in this very tight league. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

16 hours ago, Jodami said:

We didn't do anything about signing a striker as we had already signed Vanecek, which was an utter disaster. If we had done business like Hibs did with McNulty then that could have made a real impact. 

 

It's not a last season issue and this season issue, it's a sustained malaise. We have better players but even in the League Cup league section games the same issues  persisted. That was with the vast majority of the squad available. What I am saying and as you are aware I have consistently said for several months is that I think we have a real coaching issue and unless that changes we won't see us string together a sequence of wins to turn things around.

 

I still don’t know what you mean about a coaching issue though.

 

The coaching issue is in your head unless you can expand on it. You mentioned we have young inexperienced coaches. Like robbie neilson who romped the championship and then got us 3rd and left us in 2nd?

 

The injuries however are real. I’ve been watching hearts regularly since about 1979. 

 

We have never had a good season - trophy, europe, cup run - without our main players. And we have finished 6th and 5th many times WITH most players fit. None of 85/86, 97/98, the great european run in the 80s, the 5-1 game would have happened if you took out 3-5 key players from those teams. Even the championship title under neilson probably wouldn’t have happened. It was a very injury free season. Maybe only in 05/06 did we have a squad that could cope with that amount of injuries to key players.

 

This injury crisis is unprecedented and has very obviously been the main issue behind our poor form. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Sagan]

Not only is Naismith the best attack minded player at our club (if not best player full stop) he also does Craig Levein's job on the park by constantly barking orders and making sure people know their role.  It amazed me when Souttar was given the captaincy over Naismith. 

To say we miss him is an understatement, but it's also not healthy! We shouldn't have to rely on one player!

 

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, Sagan said:

Not only is Naismith the best attack minded player at our club (if not best player full stop) he also does Craig Levein's job on the park by constantly barking orders and making sure people know their role.  It amazed me when Souttar was given the captaincy over Naismith. 

To say we miss him is an understatement, but it's also not healthy! We shouldn't have to rely on one player!

 

 

 

If it was onky Naismith injured I'd agree. 

 

But last season and this season it isn't just him. 

 

For example this year if Walker and Washington were fit we'd be better off. 

 

Not even going to mention Morrison who is just back, Haring, Souttar and now Halkett all ****ed. 

 

Naismith is a key player, but having him out and various others at the same time is the biggest problem. 

 

Even last year, our left backs got injured, Berra, Souttar and Uche were all out as well as Naismith and selling Lafferty and waiting on DV was just terrible. 

 

Then Haring, Morrison, think even Dunne went away injured. 

 

Shit storm, bigger than Naismith imo. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Smith's right boot

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, Sagan said:

Not only is Naismith the best attack minded player at our club (if not best player full stop) he also does Craig Levein's job on the park by constantly barking orders and making sure people know their role.  It amazed me when Souttar was given the captaincy over Naismith. 

To say we miss him is an understatement, but it's also not healthy! We shouldn't have to rely on one player!

 

 

It’s not unusual. We finished 2nd with robbo in 87/88. He went to Newcastle in 88 and we finished 6th that season even though he came back during the season. With him back we then finished 3rd the next season. We ended up playing a midfielder in Galloway up front a lot after Robbo left, although he did very well, even though we signed a decent striker in Ferguson. Some players are simple irreplaceable. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Sagan]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

If it was onky Naismith injured I'd agree. 

 

But last season and this season it isn't just him. 

 

For example this year if Walker and Washington were fit we'd be better off. 

 

Not even going to mention Morrison who is just back, Haring, Souttar and now Halkett. 

 

Naismith is a key player, but having him out and various others at the same time is the biggest problem. 

 

Even last year, our left backs got injured, Berra, Souttar and Uche were all out as well as Naismith and selling Lafferty and waiting on DV was just terrible. 

 

Then Haring, Morrison, think even Dunne went away injured. 

 

Shit storm, bigger than Naismith imo. 

 

Without doubt the biggest problem is the injuries but i have my own thoughts on that which i can't be bothered arguing about. 

We're going to continue to get them, that's all i'm saying. 

[Bull's-eye]

15 minutes ago, Sagan said:

Not only is Naismith the best attack minded player at our club (if not best player full stop) he also does Craig Levein's job on the park by constantly barking orders and making sure people know their role.  It amazed me when Souttar was given the captaincy over Naismith. 

To say we miss him is an understatement, but it's also not healthy! We shouldn't have to rely on one player!

 

 

Yes, good point.

Best not to pick him at all if he ever gets fit.

 

Or make him play Shit like everyone else so he fits in better. 

 

That the sort of thing Sags?

[Sagan]

Just now, Noah Claypole said:

 

Yes, good point.

Best not to pick him at all if he ever gets fit.

 

Or make him play Shit like everyone else so he fits in better. 

 

That the sort of thing Sags?

 

Oh c'mon now. 

That post deserves to be deleted.

[Bull's-eye]

5 minutes ago, Sagan said:

 

Oh c'mon now. 

That post deserves to be deleted.

 

 

 

[Sagan]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It’s not unusual. We finished 2nd with robbo in 87/88. He went to Newcastle in 88 and we finished 6th that season even though he came back during the season. With him back we then finished 3rd the next season. We ended up playing a midfielder in Galloway up front a lot after Robbo left, although he did very well, even though we signed a decent striker in Ferguson. Some players are simple irreplaceable. 

 

Too many variables. I just think we rely on him far too much, but i agree that all the other injuries haven't helped. 

If we had a settled team, the main man being injured shouldn't make as much of an impact as it has. 

 

[Jodami]

25 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I still don’t know what you mean about a coaching issue though.

 

The coaching issue is in your head unless you can expand on it. You mentioned we have young inexperienced coaches. Like robbie neilson who romped the championship and then got us 3rd and left us in 2nd?

 

The injuries however are real. I’ve been watching hearts regularly since about 1979. 

 

We have never had a good season - trophy, europe, cup run - without our main players. And we have finished 6th and 5th many times WITH most players fit. None of 85/86, 97/98, the great european run in the 80s, the 5-1 game would have happened if you took out 3-5 key players from those teams. Even the championship title under neilson probably wouldn’t have happened. It was a very injury free season. Maybe only in 05/06 did we have a squad that could cope with that amount of injuries to key players.

 

This injury crisis is unprecedented and has very obviously been the main issue behind our poor form. 

 

 

I don’t know how much more you want on the coaching issue. Coach attacking transition, walk attackers repeatedly through phases of play so the ball carrier and the runners know what they should be doing. If you lose the ball know your shape and who goes to press. This is what happens at many clubs. Leeds work on this ad infinitum throughout the season. Bielsa introduced a new style in one close season. This won't happen with the current bunch though, they don't have the knowledge or experience to do this. It's scavenge second balls, hit crosses into the box, hope we do something from a set piece (we rarely do). 

 

We are of a similar vintage, I have watched the team for slightly longer than you. You must see how easily teams manoeuvre the ball to Berra because we just do not know how to build and who should be carrying the ball. 

 

If the injury crisis is the only reason for the poor form why were we rank rotten in the League Cup group games, 70 mins against Aberdeen and 90 mins against Ross County. Clueless because little had been done in training in pre season. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Sagan said:

 

Too many variables. I just think we rely on him far too much, but i agree that all the other injuries haven't helped. 

If we had a settled team, the main man being injured shouldn't make as much of an impact as it has. 

 

 

I literally just posted an example of the difference losing just one key player can make, and that was with the rest of the team being relatively settled.

[Sagan]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I literally just posted an example of the difference losing just one key player can make, and that was with the rest of the team being relatively settled.

 

Aye, but as i said, too many variables. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but you've got to look at the players we have now, the manager we have now, the coaches the lot. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I don’t know how much more you want on the coaching issue. Coach attacking transition, walk attackers repeatedly through phases of play so the ball carrier and the runners know what they should be doing. If you lose the ball know your shape and who goes to press. This is what happens at many clubs. Leeds work on this ad infinitum throughout the season. Bielsa introduced a new style in one close season. This won't happen with the current bunch though, they don't have the knowledge or experience to do this. It's scavenge second balls, hit crosses into the box, hope we do something from a set piece (we rarely do). 

 

We are of a similar vintage, I have watched the team for slightly longer than you. You must see how easily teams manoeuvre the ball to Berra because we just do not know how to build and who should be carrying the ball. 

 

If the injury crisis is the only reason for the poor form why were we rank rotten in the League Cup group games, 70 mins against Aberdeen and 90 mins against Ross County. Clueless because little had been done in training in pre season. 

 

How do you know how we’re coaching players? Players have already spoken up to say they’ve let the manager and coaches down with lots of silly mistakes. 

 

I’m not saying coaching isn’t part of it but the injuries are the most obvious reason. 

 

You mentioned carrying the ball from defence. Souttar’s our best for that. Injured. Halkett was doing a fine impression of him though. Injured.

 

The LC games were competitive warm ups. Motherwell were brilliant in them then we beat them. All that matters with the LC is we’re still in it.

Edited October 4, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Sagan said:

 

Aye, but as i said, too many variables. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but you've got to look at the players we have now, the manager we have now, the coaches the lot. 

 

The fact is with Naismith and others fit we’d have been challenging for europe minimum.