redjambo Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said: To save all the ****ing about she should have been brought back at the outset, tried, and banged up in maximum security for the rest of her natural life. Might've also saved the life of one of her kids, the poor wee *******. This post should probably be in the unpopular opinion thread. I agree that she should have been brought back at the outset and tried for her crimes. However, being the bleeding-heart liberal that I am, I would have wanted to see her receiving commensurate punishment for any crimes for which she was found guilty, not automatically banged up for life in max security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, redjambo said: However, being the bleeding-heart liberal that I am, I would have wanted to see her receiving commensurate punishment for any crimes for which she was found guilty, not automatically banged up for life in max security. I didn't say that she should be automatically banged up for life in max security. Edited February 26, 2021 by Governor Tarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just now, Governor Tarkin said: I didn't say she should be automatically banged up for life in max security. Ah, ok. In that case we are in agreement, Governor. In my opinion, this idea of withdrawing her British citizenship was reneging on our responsibility towards our own citizens, and that includes holding them accountable for crimes they've committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, redjambo said: Ah, ok. In that case we are in agreement, Governor. In my opinion, this idea of withdrawing her British citizenship was reneging on our responsibility towards our own citizens, and that includes holding them accountable for crimes they've committed. You're needed back on the Covid19 thread for statistics. 🌝 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, redjambo said: Ah, ok. In that case we are in agreement, Governor. In my opinion, this idea of withdrawing her British citizenship was reneging on our responsibility towards our own citizens, and that includes holding them accountable for crimes they've committed. Agree 100%. We're either that type of a country, or we're not. It shouldn't even be a grey area. That said... from a personal point of view, the temptation to leave her to her fate is understandable. I doubt very much whether she'd advocate such clemency for either of us, as our head was being detached from our shoulders. Edited February 26, 2021 by Governor Tarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Agree 100%. We're either that type of a country, or we're not. It shouldn't even be a grey area. That said... from a personal point of view, the temptation to leave her to her fate is understandable. I doubt very much whether she'd advocate such clemency for either of us, as our head was being detached from our shoulders. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 I'm a bit torn. Tho I don't think she deserves any sympathy, on the other hand, do we not live by higher standards. So I suppose, bring her back, try her for whatever crimes and keep a never moving eye on the fecking boot and everyone connected to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 13 minutes ago, ri Alban said: I'm a bit torn. Tho I don't think she deserves any sympathy, on the other hand, do we not live by higher standards. So I suppose, bring her back, try her for whatever crimes and keep a never moving eye on the fecking boot and everyone connected to her. An unnecessary expense. Double tap to the back of the head. Blame the covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 A problem we have made for ourselves by allowing dual citizenship to exist in the UK Now we are not in the EU ( and I want us to be, for clarity) make it single citizenship which new arrivals can hold as long as don't commit crimes for 10 years then its solid. Don't allow British and Irish, British and anything else. People just choose which country they want to be a citizen of. If a citizen born here or full citizen after 10 years commits treason bring them back for trial. If under ten years revoke their citizenship which reverts to country of origin. As it is it seem to me we are wrong to try to deny her a right to come back to a country where she is a citizen, so we should have her back and then determine if she has committed an offence and try her if considered so, and then consider any mitigating circumstances (age, grooming etc) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said: An unnecessary expense. Double tap to the back of the head. Blame the covid. There's the thing, I do and don't agree. I wouldn't lose any sleep if it did happened. A very dangerous person, but she's our problem, so I'm confused on what to do. Edited February 26, 2021 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just now, ri Alban said: There's the thing, I do and don't agree. I wouldn't lose any sleep if it did happen. A very dangerous person, but she's our problem. Not if the covid gets her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 45 minutes ago, redjambo said: Ah, ok. In that case we are in agreement, Governor. In my opinion, this idea of withdrawing her British citizenship was reneging on our responsibility towards our own citizens, and that includes holding them accountable for crimes they've committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said: To save all the ****ing about she should have been brought back at the outset, tried, and banged up in maximum security for the rest of her natural life. Might've also saved the life of one of her kids, the poor wee *******. This post should probably be in the unpopular opinion thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Dozens of people come back from the middle east every year and are either tried and jailed or monitored or allowed to re-integrate. This lassie has become a political football and is being made an example of to appease the racist bigots that vote Tory. Nothing more, nothing less. Today's Supreme Court judgement was slimy. The Home Secretary now has the powers to use "national security" as an excuse to deny a fair trial to a UK citizen and to strip them of citizenship, which is under any other circumstance illegal. The Supreme Court actually said that this is fine because the Home Sec is accountable at the ballot box. So enacting dog whistle populist far right policies is fine because voters can vote them out in 5 years time. We're backsliding into barbarism in this shitehole nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wentworth jambo Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Made her bed...can lie in it. Would happily kill and maim innocent people in the name of religion....**** her and all like her. And don't go down the "she was young, she was radicalised" line - she chose the path she's on. The only one's I feel any remorse for are the poor innocent bairns she had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 55 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: A problem we have made for ourselves by allowing dual citizenship to exist in the UK Now we are not in the EU ( and I want us to be, for clarity) make it single citizenship which new arrivals can hold as long as don't commit crimes for 10 years then its solid. Don't allow British and Irish, British and anything else. People just choose which country they want to be a citizen of. If a citizen born here or full citizen after 10 years commits treason bring them back for trial. If under ten years revoke their citizenship which reverts to country of origin. As it is it seem to me we are wrong to try to deny her a right to come back to a country where she is a citizen, so we should have her back and then determine if she has committed an offence and try her if considered so, and then consider any mitigating circumstances (age, grooming etc) . I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, jonesy said: Haven't really been able to make my mind up on this. And then the more I think about it, I think bringing her back, educating her and showing her compassion (to the point where she can be legally held to account) would probably be the most un-ISIS thing the UK government could do. That right there is the heart of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said: Would Wizards sleeve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 5 hours ago, scott herbertson said: A problem we have made for ourselves by allowing dual citizenship to exist in the UK Now we are not in the EU ( and I want us to be, for clarity) make it single citizenship which new arrivals can hold as long as don't commit crimes for 10 years then its solid. Don't allow British and Irish, British and anything else. People just choose which country they want to be a citizen of. If a citizen born here or full citizen after 10 years commits treason bring them back for trial. If under ten years revoke their citizenship which reverts to country of origin. As it is it seem to me we are wrong to try to deny her a right to come back to a country where she is a citizen, so we should have her back and then determine if she has committed an offence and try her if considered so, and then consider any mitigating circumstances (age, grooming etc) . She’s not a dual citizen though? She was born in England, is a British citizen and has never even visited Bangladesh (the country of origin of her parents). She’s our problem, it’s not fair to leave her in Syria as a potential destabilising influence whilst they’re trying to rebuild. It’s also unfair to expect Bangladesh to have anything to do with her. Bring her back, establish what crimes she has committed and try her in a court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said: Wizards sleeve 37 mins ago. I take it you turned the game off? Edited February 26, 2021 by Tommy Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 57 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: 37 mins ago. I take it you turned the game off? There’s only so much punishment you can take. Maybe we should buy the wee traitor a ST? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 3 hours ago, moogsy said: She’s not a dual citizen though? She was born in England, is a British citizen and has never even visited Bangladesh (the country of origin of her parents). She’s our problem, it’s not fair to leave her in Syria as a potential destabilising influence whilst they’re trying to rebuild. It’s also unfair to expect Bangladesh to have anything to do with her. Bring her back, establish what crimes she has committed and try her in a court. Yes - I was talking about the generality of having dual citizenship as an option -I don't agree with the principle which is has allowed a blurring where the UK government claimed they were not leaving her stateless as she was 'entitled' to Bangladeshi citizenship (denied by the Bangladeshi government but that doesn't matter to a government who ignores international law when it suits them I agree with you she is our problem and on the course of action which any government should see is its clear responsibilty.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Repatriating Shamima Begum is vital for the UK’s national security An interesting and morally consistent perspective. Note it was written last July, not after this latest twist. If you can't be bothered to read it, here are the three main summary points: · She may have thrown her lot in with ISIS, but it's right Shamima Begum return to the UK to face justice · By putting Begum through our court process we deny Islamists the oxygen of grievance they depend on · Mercy can be a weapon in the fight against terrorism - as can due process A society worth defending should try to act as un-ISIS-like as possible, to borrow jonesy's turn of phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Justin Z said: Repatriating Shamima Begum is vital for the UK’s national security An interesting and morally consistent perspective. Note it was written last July, not after this latest twist. If you can't be bothered to read it, here are the three main summary points: · She may have thrown her lot in with ISIS, but it's right Shamima Begum return to the UK to face justice · By putting Begum through our court process we deny Islamists the oxygen of grievance they depend on · Mercy can be a weapon in the fight against terrorism - as can due process A society worth defending should try to act as un-ISIS-like as possible, to borrow jonesy's turn of phrase. I agree that she should be dealt with here but points two and three are the sorts of fanciful bollocks I’d expect to read in the Guardian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Justin Z said: Repatriating Shamima Begum is vital for the UK’s national security An interesting and morally consistent perspective. Note it was written last July, not after this latest twist. If you can't be bothered to read it, here are the three main summary points: · She may have thrown her lot in with ISIS, but it's right Shamima Begum return to the UK to face justice · By putting Begum through our court process we deny Islamists the oxygen of grievance they depend on · Mercy can be a weapon in the fight against terrorism - as can due process A society worth defending should try to act as un-ISIS-like as possible, to borrow jonesy's turn of phrase. Point 2 - By putting her through the court system only gives ISIS a worldwide platform and potentially unlimited oxygen, because if she's convicted of a crime, she then becomes a martyr to their cause, a propaganda tool they can use to recruit more people by using her incarceration or punishment to use as an example of the Christians hatred against Islam. Point 3 - ISIS and their kind see mercy as weakness and only inspires them to challenge us weak infidels all the more, because they believe we are weak. And as for acting as un-ISIS as possible, well we do already, as we don't go around lobbing people's heads off and putting them on display......well not for the last 400 odd years we haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I agree that she should be dealt with here but points two and three are the sorts of fanciful bollocks I’d expect to read in the Guardian The writer is a self-described "Irish Unionist" and "unbiddable Tory", as well as a professor who specialises in terrorism and extremism. Maybe, just maybe he knows what he's talking about, and much like when Ben Shapiro called Andrew Neil a liberal, would likely have quite the laugh at this. 1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Point 2 - By putting her through the court system only gives ISIS a worldwide platform and potentially unlimited oxygen, because if she's convicted of a crime, she then becomes a martyr to their cause, a propaganda tool they can use to recruit more people by using her incarceration or punishment to use as an example of the Christians hatred against Islam. This is at least a take. Agree to disagree, but I appreciate the engagement. 1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Point 3 - ISIS and their kind see mercy as weakness and only inspires them to challenge us weak infidels all the more, because they believe we are weak. It seems to me is what radicalises people into joining ISIS is primarily the west's continual bombing of their homes for the past 20 years. If we get out of where we don't belong, they'll be fuel starved. 2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: And as for acting as un-ISIS as possible, well we do already, as we don't go around lobbing people's heads off and putting them on display......well not for the last 400 odd years we haven't. We go around bombing brown people's homes for 20 years straight, but at least we don't use knives when we remove their heads from their bodies, and censor any footage of it, I guess? We might act less ISIS than ISIS does, but as un-ISIS as possible? Nah, and we should really take some responsibility IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: And as for acting as un-ISIS as possible, well we do already, as we don't go around lobbing people's heads off and putting them on display......well not for the last 400 odd years we haven't. We're pretty handy at lobbing ordnance at folk though, or punting it to our mates and getting them to do it. Play to your strengths imo. Like you say, heads on a pike is so 400 years ago. 👍 Edited February 28, 2021 by Governor Tarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK2020 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 26/02/2021 at 12:51, Lovecraft said: Kinda torn about the whole thing tbh. She was a kid when she left, yet still old enough to know better. Yet again, kids are easily led and manipulated. Yet, yet again, kids are brainwashed with religious propaganda crap. And what would she be doing if ISIS were winning? 🤔 Sounds like SNP's Scotland when you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, Justin Z said: It seems to me is what radicalises people into joining ISIS is primarily the west's continual bombing of their homes for the past 20 years. If we get out of where we don't belong, they'll be fuel starved. IIRC ISIS et al don't really cite the invasion of Iraq, they still bang on about the Crusades. We should never have been anywhere near Iraq in 2003, that was solely because 'dubya' wanted to go one step further than his father did. WMD's pile of BS, I was very vocal at the time and was shot down for it as well, but I was right, there was none, there hadn't been for years. Maybe we should have finished the job back in 1990-91, instead of thinking we could control Saddam, maybe just maybe things might have turned out differently. Guess we'll never know now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 26/02/2021 at 12:55, Governor Tarkin said: Heaving out the next generation of jihadi fighters in between cutting folks heads off, most likely. She stitched up suicide vests too y'ken. It was in The Sun. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: She stitched up suicide vests too y'ken. It was in The Sun. 😁 Is that right? I'll defer to your superior knowledge of red-top headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, Governor Tarkin said: Is that right? I'll defer to your superior knowledge of red-top headlines. Aye, it's true man. I also read in the press-for-plebs that she was breeding terrorists....oh wait, I read that on here, it was written by you. 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said: Aye, it's true man. I also read in the press-for-plebs that she was breeding terrorists....oh wait, I read that on here, it was written by you. 😊 It's well a well established fact that she was involved in an ISIS breeding programme. AK47s for the boy children, and suicide vests for the girl children that aren't selected as breeders when they're 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakened Offender Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: It's well a well established fact that she was involved in an ISIS breeding programme. AK47s for the boy children, and suicide vests for the girl children that aren't selected as breeders when they're 8. Of course it is. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKongUno Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Justin Z said: We go around bombing brown people's homes for 20 years straight, but at least we don't use knives when we remove their heads from their bodies, and censor any footage of it, I guess? We might act less ISIS than ISIS does, but as un-ISIS as possible? Nah, and we should really take some responsibility IMO. Is it exclusively brown people we bomb? Do they go door to door 1st and check the skin colour before they drop the payloads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, JimKongUno said: Is it exclusively brown people we bomb? Do they go door to door 1st and check the skin colour before they drop the payloads Most of the folk we tool up are brown too. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I think its a really tough call because you don't want to effectively say its okay to go and join a war mongering caliphate but if that doesn't work out you can still come home. But, we're also talking about a teenager. I think morally speaking the UK has an obligation here. But I can see the view that she shouldn't be allowed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Most of the folk we tool up are brown too. 👍 Only if in a khaki uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Problem is, if she wasn’t banged up here she’d be getting attacked in the street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, OTT said: I think its a really tough call because you don't want to effectively say its okay to go and join a war mongering caliphate but if that doesn't work out you can still come home. But, we're also talking about a teenager. I think morally speaking the UK has an obligation here. But I can see the view that she shouldn't be allowed back. Indeed, what do you do, if you punish her too severely then she's a martyr, if not enough then it's no deterrent to anybody else wanting to do similar. What I think needs to be remembered here, is that if the caliphate was still going strong, she'd have no interest in trying to return back to the UK, she'd probably be too busy producing the next generation of terrorists, who'd quite happily bomb the feck out of the very country she's so desperate to return back to now. It really is a difficult situation, and one which no matter which way the UK government had went on this, they'd get crap over, just look at how this divides public opinion, and you can then see the problem the government has, there is no easy answer, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Indeed, what do you do, if you punish her too severely then she's a martyr, if not enough then it's no deterrent to anybody else wanting to do similar. What I think needs to be remembered here, is that if the caliphate was still going strong, she'd have no interest in trying to return back to the UK, she'd probably be too busy producing the next generation of terrorists, who'd quite happily bomb the feck out of the very country she's so desperate to return back to now. It really is a difficult situation, and one which no matter which way the UK government had went on this, they'd get crap over, just look at how this divides public opinion, and you can then see the problem the government has, there is no easy answer, here. It’s certainly a hard call to make on what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 As has been said before, many people have left the UK and joined various terror groups only to return. Some are jailed, some are monitored, some are allowed to reintegrate. This lassie has been singled out for special treatment for purely political purposes. That is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 hours ago, JimKongUno said: Is it exclusively brown people we bomb? Do they go door to door 1st and check the skin colour before they drop the payloads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Think I've posted on here in the past. My answer is still No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 You made your bed, now lie in it. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 17 hours ago, Cade said: As has been said before, many people have left the UK and joined various terror groups only to return. Some are jailed, some are monitored, some are allowed to reintegrate. This lassie has been singled out for special treatment for purely political purposes. That is the issue. Ah well unlucky for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK2020 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 17 hours ago, Cade said: As has been said before, many people have left the UK and joined various terror groups only to return. Some are jailed, some are monitored, some are allowed to reintegrate. This lassie has been singled out for special treatment for purely political purposes. That is the issue. Lol, and this lassie never singled herself out by leaving the UK to go join ISIS for political reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¼½¾ Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 We might as well take her back. If she's refused through legal channels, she can simply sneak in on a dinghy. Once she's here, there'll be no way of getting rid of her. At least by letting her come, there could be some control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I'd sooner take in the Yazidi woman these IS subhumans preyed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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