Boris Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said: And if you take Farage at his word, he himself would have been nowhere near British politics again either, he wouldn't have needed to if the referendum result had been fulfilled like both the Tories & Labour had promised to do so at the last GE. The only reason Farage is back on the scene and front & centre again is because of the incompetence and inability of both the Tories & Labour to get brexit over the line and in doing so I think that Farage is here to stay or at least until brexit is actually fully delivered. So being driven to a no deal by a false narrative pedalled by Farage et al? Great! Can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, frankblack said: Labour, Tories, and Lib Dems will suffer. I think the SNP too but to a much lesser extent. I don't personally like Farage but he is more tolerable than Sturgeon, with fewer grievances. They're both similar in that they're each offering their own brand of divisive Nationalism. The whole of Brexit has been an utter shambles, and the SNP haven't been blameless, conflating Remain in Scotland with Scottish Independence. Meanwhile Scots who would prefer to remain in both Unions, and that's still the majority, get dragged towards either side of an unwanted Nationalism tug of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 6 hours ago, frankblack said: While I respect your view, I don't see too many people here identifying themselves as European first. I think the decision of what to vote for will boil down to economics and Independence will get torn apart as unplanned and a financial disaster that would see us begging to get back in to the UK within a decade. I'm a Scottish, non Brit, European. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, pablo said: They're both similar in that they're each offering their own brand of divisive Nationalism. The whole of Brexit has been an utter shambles, and the SNP haven't been blameless, conflating Remain in Scotland with Scottish Independence. Meanwhile Scots who would prefer to remain in both Unions, and that's still the majority, get dragged towards either side of an unwanted Nationalism tug of war. I'd rather have one border than 27. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 15 hours ago, Gorgiewave said: Hate-filled. Mirror Mirror on the wall. Don't be throwing stones in green houses, GW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 On 11/05/2019 at 20:53, Ally Bee said: Typically offensive comment against a woman who gave birth only 6 months ago. Alex Salmond & Natalie McGarry are both a bit chubby too. A few months of porridge will soon sort them out though I suppose. Virgin birth too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, pablo said: They're both similar in that they're each offering their own brand of divisive Nationalism. The whole of Brexit has been an utter shambles, and the SNP haven't been blameless, conflating Remain in Scotland with Scottish Independence. Meanwhile Scots who would prefer to remain in both Unions, and that's still the majority, get dragged towards either side of an unwanted Nationalism tug of war. Labour would seem to be the obvious choice then, no? A least there is the inkling of another referendum on Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Gorgiewave said: Keep going. You're an asset to our side. People will make their own minds up. Absolutely loathe that Govan mob. There are perfectly decent people who voted no and will still do for perfectly good reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 On 12/05/2019 at 15:39, Class of 75 said: I think the SNP will be as shocked as the 2 main parties. Brexit Party polling around 10% in Scotland. Interesting watching the Andrew Marr show this morning and seeing him resort to personal attacks on Farage in an effort to discredit him. Even the BBC are worried. Interesting times ahead. Farage was attacked by Marr because of his political idealoligies , and quite rightly so. The amount of air time this nasty piece of work gets from the BBC is shocking.Marr highlighted his extreme far right views. Farage is an enemy of the ordinary working class, his policies within the Brexit party masks , anti immigrant rhetoric and xenophobia. He is also a racist. Well done Rage Against The Machine. Rage Against the Machine send cease and desist letter to Nigel Farage "Your anti-immigrant rhetoric, lack of social compassion and barely disguised racism and xenophobia are the antithesis of what RATM stands for. Stop using RATM’s name and logo, change the name of your podcast and find some other target to troll. We suggest President Trump.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Boris said: Nothing new, just his usual bullshit about betrayal etc Now saying a vote for his party is a vote for no deal. Why didn't he say that back during the referendum? He's a complete charlatan. I just do not trust him one iota. Snake oil salesman imo. Correct he is indeed a snake, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, maroonlegions said: Correct he is indeed a snake, Guaranteed £79000 a year for life. He's a fecking scumbag. The EU should pull his pension after Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said: Your assertion was that iScotland would be begging to return to the UK within a decade and I provided a list of countries who have left without "begging" to return. You've nullified your idiotic argument. Countries that you've labelled "shiteholes" (How very Trumpian) and terrible examples of democracy are still not begging to return to Britain. Your examples were weak at best. Israel was never a UK colony or fully unionised, Pakistan is an annexed part of India, and others still remain part of the commonwealth with the Queen as head of state. Those are just some that stand out without doing any research. As soon as an Independent Scotland got its own currency and found that weak compared to the pound, everything will start to unravel. Try getting voters to accept being worse off than the English with higher prices in the shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 hours ago, frankblack said: Your examples were weak at best. Israel was never a UK colony or fully unionised, Pakistan is an annexed part of India, and others still remain part of the commonwealth with the Queen as head of state. Those are just some that stand out without doing any research. As soon as an Independent Scotland got its own currency and found that weak compared to the pound, everything will start to unravel. Try getting voters to accept being worse off than the English with higher prices in the shops. So... Tell me how you voted yes in 2014, again. Do you even live in Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 5 hours ago, frankblack said: Your examples were weak at best. Israel was never a UK colony or fully unionised, Pakistan is an annexed part of India, and others still remain part of the commonwealth with the Queen as head of state. Those are just some that stand out without doing any research. As soon as an Independent Scotland got its own currency and found that weak compared to the pound, everything will start to unravel. Try getting voters to accept being worse off than the English with higher prices in the shops. Considering the outsized proportion of exports from the UK Scotland provides, a weak currency would actually be quite favourable. And as already discussed, Scotland could peg its currency to another for as long as it wanted anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) Good to see the plain packaging of Fags has helped put kids off smoking. Add in labours smoking ban. Well done The SNP and Labour for trying to sort out our health problems at the source. If the Tories had their way, they'd rather all working class heroes died. Edited May 14, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 On 12/05/2019 at 23:33, redjambo said: Nice in theory, but as a Remainer, switching my vote to Independence (I voted against, last time out) is exactly what I'm going to do. For two main reasons: (i) I'm a European and believe in the EU project, so am hoping that an independent Scotland will join the EU. (ii) The results of the Brexit referendum showed exactly how out of kilter Scotland and England are. I refuse to be dragged along the road of petty xenophobia that is being taken by so many in England at the moment. The question is, will there be many more like me or not? I'm not so sure there will be. I think there will be plenty like you. But there will also be plenty of Yes voters who voted leave and won’t want dragged back in to Europe by an independent Scotland and so will switch their vote the other way also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said: I think there will be plenty like you. But there will also be plenty of Yes voters who voted leave and won’t want dragged back in to Europe by an independent Scotland and so will switch their vote the other way also. Doubt it. Independence in Europe or Telt by England. ⚖️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Doubt it. Independence in Europe or Telt by England. ⚖️ Do you think there is any chance your opinion might be slightly swayed by your desire for independence?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: Do you think there is any chance your opinion might be slightly swayed by your desire for independence?!?! No, but equating EU membership with WM rule is a bit silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, ri Alban said: No, but equating EU membership with WM rule is a bit silly. If you don’t think any yes voters will switch their votes to No as they don’t want to be taken back into Europe you are either in denial or haven’t full grasped the complexities the SNP are wrestling with to ensure they win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: If you don’t think any yes voters will switch their votes to No as they don’t want to be taken back into Europe you are either in denial or haven’t full grasped the complexities the SNP are wrestling with to ensure they win. I didn't say that. But true independence supporters won't switch. The SNP can say what they want, btw. They'd have to win a GE with EU membership on their agenda (which it won't) first. But the only way to rejoin, is by independence, tho. EFTA is where Scotland will go. Imo. Sovereignty is the prize, whether that's by using brexit as leverage, well... so be it . The Brexit party , Farage and Boris will be the final wee shove to independence. The next poll will be over 50% and the EU elections will hand the SNP more ammunition. Glorious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, ri Alban said: I didn't say that. But true independence supporters won't switch. The SNP can say what they want, btw. They'd have to win a GE with EU membership on their agenda (which it won't) first. But the only way to rejoin, is by independence, tho. EFTA is where Scotland will go. Imo. Sovereignty is the prize, whether that's by using brexit as leverage, well... so be it . The Brexit party , Farage and Boris will be the final wee shove to independence. The next poll will be over 50% and the EU elections will hand the SNP more ammunition. Glorious! Only if Westminster gives permission for another referendum.....;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Justin Z said: Considering the outsized proportion of exports from the UK Scotland provides, a weak currency would actually be quite favourable. That argument only benefits a limited number of workers involved in manufacturing - around 7%. Scotland has a large number of people employed in the public sector. Cheaper wages will not balance out higher prices in the shops. 2 hours ago, Justin Z said: And as already discussed, Scotland could peg its currency to another for as long as it wanted anyway. And lose control of the levers to control the economy. The fact remains that the Scottish currency will tank whenever it starts. Joining the Euro would be less stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, frankblack said: That argument only benefits a limited number of workers involved in manufacturing - around 7%. Scotland has a large number of people employed in the public sector. Cheaper wages will not balance out higher prices in the shops. And lose control of the levers to control the economy. The fact remains that the Scottish currency will tank whenever it starts. Joining the Euro would be less stupid. Iyo, Frank. The pound has tanked and will tank further post brexit. So, euro either way then, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Iyo, Frank. The pound has tanked and will tank further post brexit. So, euro either way then, is it? You seem to be struggling here. The pound was overvalued and rebalanced. Once this Brexit shambles at Westminster ends it will rise a bit. A Scottish currency starts with no credit worthiness and will fall back from there when Scotland is in a shambles post Indy*. * = Indy isn't going to happen so I'm humouring you with a scenario that would follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, frankblack said: You seem to be struggling here. The pound was overvalued and rebalanced. Once this Brexit shambles at Westminster ends it will rise a bit. A Scottish currency starts with no credit worthiness and will fall back from there when Scotland is in a shambles post Indy*. * = Indy isn't going to happen so I'm humouring you with a scenario that would follow. Oh dear! Someone has lost the plot. Independence is a certainty. When, not if. The bestest natural resources in Europe and we have no credit worthiness. Actually, there's no point talking to you, anyway. You're a liar(You didn't vote Yes)and your credit worthiness has just shat itself. Edited May 14, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said: Only if Westminster gives permission for another referendum.....;o) Just a courtesy, not required. And if they do not, that's ok, because the SNP and other yes parties will combine and put an UDI on their next GE manifesto and nothing else. Their choice. Edited May 14, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 21 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Just a courtesy, not required. And if they do not, that's ok, because the SNP and other yes parties will combine and put an UDI on their next GE manifesto and nothing else. Their choice. You and I know it is required as Sturgeon has explicitly said she wont have a referendum without it being legitimised. A general election doesn't work as you don't 'win' a general election in Scotland as its a UK vote. Even if you did accept that SNP 'won' the last GE then Westminster ignored the referendum claim, they would do so again. I think your scenario is what Westminster wants to happen at the Scottish elections. They will be banking on their being no pro indy majority in Holyrood post those elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: You and I know it is required as Sturgeon has explicitly said she wont have a referendum without it being legitimised. A general election doesn't work as you don't 'win' a general election in Scotland as its a UK vote. Even if you did accept that SNP 'won' the last GE then Westminster ignored the referendum claim, they would do so again. I think your scenario is what Westminster wants to happen at the Scottish elections. They will be banking on their being no pro indy majority in Holyrood post those elections. Latest poll (I know!) showed a spanking pro-indy majority! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Well, there's misinformed, and then there's wilfully ignorant. One side has consistently shown a proclivity for both the former and the latter since Johnny-Come-Lately here showed up on the scene--playing out further in threads like this all over, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, Boris said: Latest poll (I know!) showed a spanking pro-indy majority! But... But... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: You and I know it is required as Sturgeon has explicitly said she wont have a referendum without it being legitimised. A general election doesn't work as you don't 'win' a general election in Scotland as its a UK vote. Even if you did accept that SNP 'won' the last GE then Westminster ignored the referendum claim, they would do so again. I think your scenario is what Westminster wants to happen at the Scottish elections. They will be banking on their being no pro indy majority in Holyrood post those elections. The Tories have accumulated enough debt on banking. And anyway, they'll be obliterated very soon, so they'll be telling naeone naw. The will of the Scottish people will decide. Edited May 14, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: The Tories have accumulated enough debt on banking. And anyway, they'll be obliterated very soon, so they'll be telling naeone naw. The will of the Scottish people will decide. The Tories will see out their term. Its hard to see a majority government after that, which makes getting Indy Ref 2 authorised less likely. That will be academic when the nationalist majority is gone at Holyrood. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, frankblack said: That will be academic when the nationalist majority is gone at Holyrood. ? when will that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Boris said: when will that be? Based on the tactical voting at the last GE, the SNP will lose control and the green loons will be binned. Lets be honest it will be a bitter and nasty election campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Quite a few folk panicking about The Brexit Party. Good to see. Yvette Cooper in turmoil. Good to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 On 13/05/2019 at 13:37, pablo said: They're both similar in that they're each offering their own brand of divisive Nationalism. The whole of Brexit has been an utter shambles, and the SNP haven't been blameless, conflating Remain in Scotland with Scottish Independence. Meanwhile Scots who would prefer to remain in both Unions, and that's still the majority, get dragged towards either side of an unwanted Nationalism tug of war. You are not even close to being correct https://wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-first-choices/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 11 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said: I think there will be plenty like you. But there will also be plenty of Yes voters who voted leave and won’t want dragged back in to Europe by an independent Scotland and so will switch their vote the other way also. The polls suggest otherwise. https://wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-first-choices/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, coconut doug said: You are not even close to being correct https://wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-first-choices/ Desperate stuff when you start using that place to back up your point of view. Come to think of it, you're not actually that dickhead are you? The way you drop in here to defend Scottish Nationalism and nothing else while plainly not being a) a Hearts fan or b) from Edinburgh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 hour ago, pablo said: Desperate stuff when you start using that place to back up your point of view. Come to think of it, you're not actually that dickhead are you? The way you drop in here to defend Scottish Nationalism and nothing else while plainly not being a) a Hearts fan or b) from Edinburgh? What facts has WOS got wrong? He backs his answers with detailed evidence and moreso than the MSM. He can be a bit weird but nevertheless he substantiates his responses. I'm a Hearts fan from Edinburgh by the way and a Scottish Nationalist as prefer that to the Brit version. Have a good night and enjoy the weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 9 hours ago, frankblack said: The Tories will see out their term. Its hard to see a majority government after that, which makes getting Indy Ref 2 authorised less likely. That will be academic when the nationalist majority is gone at Holyrood. ? Yeah! Did you even see the poll results image on this page about 10 posts above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 3 hours ago, pablo said: Desperate stuff when you start using that place to back up your point of view. Come to think of it, you're not actually that dickhead are you? The way you drop in here to defend Scottish Nationalism and nothing else while plainly not being a) a Hearts fan or b) from Edinburgh? I've been accused of not being a Hearts fan before on here and i think i proved to that accuser beyond all reasonable doubt that i was. Ididn't realise it was compulsory to be from Edinburgh either. In any case you have no way of knowing, you are merely jumping to conclusions and i wonder what difference it makes in any discussion anyway. I'm not defending Scottish Nationalism, i'm correcting yet another piece of erroneous information posted by you i.e. that Scots who prefer to remain in both unions are in the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, coconut doug said: I've been accused of not being a Hearts fan before on here and i think i proved to that accuser beyond all reasonable doubt that i was. Ididn't realise it was compulsory to be from Edinburgh either. In any case you have no way of knowing, you are merely jumping to conclusions and i wonder what difference it makes in any discussion anyway. I'm not defending Scottish Nationalism, i'm correcting yet another piece of erroneous information posted by you i.e. that Scots who prefer to remain in both unions are in the majority. Who accused you and how did you prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were a Hearts supporter? If you a Hearts, I'll happily apologise for getting that wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 1 minute ago, pablo said: Who accused you and how did you prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were a Hearts supporter? If you a Hearts, I'll happily apologise for getting that wrong. I'm under no obligation to answer your questions after all you rarely if ever answer mine. You have a cheek making these statements about me when you know nothing about me other than what is in my posts. I don't have to justify my origins, allegiances or anything else to you. I don't want your apology. I am of course happy to try and justify the points i make on here through evidence and reasoned argument that's what you should do. Why don't you apologise for posting rubbish the most recent of which is "the majority of Scots want to be in both unions"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said: Yeah! Did you even see the poll results image on this page about 10 posts above? Political polls have been proven to be completely inaccurate. Anyone who believes them is a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Krankie backing Cherry in the bullying row as SNP implodes with infighting how many wrong horses can one person back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 6 hours ago, frankblack said: Political polls have been proven to be completely inaccurate. Anyone who believes them is a fool. Indeed. Still, think they hold more water than “the nationalists majority will be gone at Holyrood” opinion of yours which has nothing to back it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said: Krankie backing Cherry in the bullying row as SNP implodes with infighting how many wrong horses can one person back A bit rich considering the Tories of Wm, past and present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 11 hours ago, pablo said: Desperate stuff when you start using that place to back up your point of view. Come to think of it, you're not actually that dickhead are you? The way you drop in here to defend Scottish Nationalism and nothing else while plainly not being a) a Hearts fan or b) from Edinburgh? I'm not from Edinburgh, And? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Indeed. Still, think they hold more water than “the nationalists majority will be gone at Holyrood” opinion of yours which has nothing to back it. The last General Election was fought up here on a partizan approach around the SNP's tiresome Independence crusade. People voted tactically to get the Nats out where another party could win a seat. Result was SNP lost a third of their seats. Exactly the same will happen for Holyrood x 100. The SNP may win most seats but lose control against pro-union parties. Edited May 15, 2019 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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