US Open Tennis

[Victorian]

Yep.   Bullying,   intimidation and defamation.      This umpire is being unfairly cast as a bigot,    or it is being strongly suggested as such.     He should probably seek legal advice and come out all guns blazing.     

 

It's a natural thing for a non-bigot to be utterly horrified at allegations of racism or sexism.     Especially the undertones of racism.     He in no way deserves to be persecuted.      

[shaun.lawson]

On 10/09/2018 at 06:05, John Findlay said:

I'll say it until I am maroon in the face. Women are not after equality, they are after preferential treatment on the sole ground that they are a woman /women.

 

John Findlay: world expert on about 4bn people, despite not even being one himself. Quite remarkable.

 

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I'll go further. Williams and her sycophants are indulging in bullying in my eyes. Agree with me/us or im/we are calling you sexit, racist etc. To me that is a form of bullying.

 

Aw, diddums. So this is about you, is it? John the victim?

 

I'm not sure how someone goes through decades of their life proudly parading their unreconstructed macho bullshit for all to see, and at no point questions their own world view, even by the tiniest fraction. But that's you. It's always been you. You're a walking, talking cliche - and open proof that when some people get older, they certainly don't get any wiser. 

 

My take more broadly:

 

1. Serena's behaviour was appalling and the umpire was well within his rights throughout. Most of the subsequent fall-out has been a media-driven nonsense.

 

2. I'm chuckling at how many on this thread are suddenly outraged at calling an official a 'cheat'. I assume they'll extend this approach of respect and decorum to football? Thought not.

 

3. The Guardian's predictable take on things does not help the right against sexism or racism. Quite the opposite. It's middle-class, First World micro-aggression bullshit.

 

4. The cartoon is despicably racist, draws on countless racist tropes, and has rightly been called out. Artistic licence of satirical cartoonists does not justify that. 

 

One other thing. However appalling her behaviour was, however much of a diva she often is, however much far too many around her act as though she's somehow bigger than her sport, what I've noticed on this thread is how extraordinarily few people are able to take a deep breath, a step back, and try walking a mile in Serena Williams' shoes. She's been subjected to the most hateful, vile racism throughout her life: the story of which is a triumph against overwhelming odds. The anger she's rightly felt against that never-ending abuse based on the colour of her skin has driven her on. Sometimes it manifests itself in horribly inappropriate ways... but it's also human and natural.

 

We seem to live in a world in which instant judgement and castigation is always the preferred option. Every online discussion becomes a competition on who can be angriest, who can be most disgusted, who can be most appalled. Nuance, shades of grey and above all, empathy, just vanish. It's kinda pitiful. And worse: it doesn't only happen online any longer. Which is a major part of why this world is the mess it is. 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

John Findlay: world expert on about 4bn people, despite not even being one himself. Quite remarkable.

 

 

Aw, diddums. So this is about you, is it? John the victim?

 

I'm not sure how someone goes through decades of their life proudly parading their unreconstructed macho bullshit for all to see, and at no point questions their own world view, even by the tiniest fraction. But that's you. It's always been you. You're a walking, talking cliche - and open proof that when some people get older, they certainly don't get any wiser. 

 

My take more broadly:

 

1. Serena's behaviour was appalling and the umpire was well within his rights throughout. Most of the subsequent fall-out has been a media-driven nonsense.

 

2. I'm chuckling at how many on this thread are suddenly outraged at calling an official a 'cheat'. I assume they'll extend this approach of respect and decorum to football? Thought not.

 

3. The Guardian's predictable take on things does not help the right against sexism or racism. Quite the opposite. It's middle-class, First World micro-aggression bullshit.

 

4. The cartoon is despicably racist, draws on countless racist tropes, and has rightly been called out. Artistic licence of satirical cartoonists does not justify that. 

 

One other thing. However appalling her behaviour was, however much of a diva she often is, however much far too many around her act as though she's somehow bigger than her sport, what I've noticed on this thread is how extraordinarily few people are able to take a deep breath, a step back, and try walking a mile in Serena Williams' shoes. She's been subjected to the most hateful, vile racism throughout her life: the story of which is a triumph against overwhelming odds. The anger she's rightly felt against that never-ending abuse based on the colour of her skin has driven her on. Sometimes it manifests itself in horribly inappropriate ways... but it's also human and natural.

 

We seem to live in a world in which instant judgement and castigation is always the preferred option. Every online discussion becomes a competition on who can be angriest, who can be most disgusted, who can be most appalled. Nuance, shades of grey and above all, empathy, just vanish. It's kinda pitiful. And worse: it doesn't only happen online any longer. Which is a major part of why this world is the mess it is. 

Aye right. More expert on things than you ever will be. You stick to judging people from your bedsit in downtown Montevideo  I mean Norwich. You are a bullshitter extroadinaire. Least some of us have lived life. Have more life experience in one of our pinkies than you have in your whole body.

Edited September 11, 2018 by John Findlay

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

John Findlay: world expert on about 4bn people, despite not even being one himself. Quite remarkable.

 

 

Aw, diddums. So this is about you, is it? John the victim?

 

I'm not sure how someone goes through decades of their life proudly parading their unreconstructed macho bullshit for all to see, and at no point questions their own world view, even by the tiniest fraction. But that's you. It's always been you. You're a walking, talking cliche - and open proof that when some people get older, they certainly don't get any wiser. 

 

My take more broadly:

 

1. Serena's behaviour was appalling and the umpire was well within his rights throughout. Most of the subsequent fall-out has been a media-driven nonsense.

 

2. I'm chuckling at how many on this thread are suddenly outraged at calling an official a 'cheat'. I assume they'll extend this approach of respect and decorum to football? Thought not.

 

3. The Guardian's predictable take on things does not help the right against sexism or racism. Quite the opposite. It's middle-class, First World micro-aggression bullshit.

 

4. The cartoon is despicably racist, draws on countless racist tropes, and has rightly been called out. Artistic licence of satirical cartoonists does not justify that. 

 

One other thing. However appalling her behaviour was, however much of a diva she often is, however much far too many around her act as though she's somehow bigger than her sport, what I've noticed on this thread is how extraordinarily few people are able to take a deep breath, a step back, and try walking a mile in Serena Williams' shoes. She's been subjected to the most hateful, vile racism throughout her life: the story of which is a triumph against overwhelming odds. The anger she's rightly felt against that never-ending abuse based on the colour of her skin has driven her on. Sometimes it manifests itself in horribly inappropriate ways... but it's also human and natural.

 

We seem to live in a world in which instant judgement and castigation is always the preferred option. Every online discussion becomes a competition on who can be angriest, who can be most disgusted, who can be most appalled. Nuance, shades of grey and above all, empathy, just vanish. It's kinda pitiful. And worse: it doesn't only happen online any longer. Which is a major part of why this world is the mess it is. 

 

I have huge respect for what Serena and Venus have achieved, and the circumstances in which they have had to operate since first picking up tennis rackets. 

 

But should that excuse questioning the integrity of the umpire? Threatening him by saying he will never work on a court with her again? A black American woman can justify her anger by verbally abusing a Spanish man in a game against a Japanese lady?? 

 

I can still respect the Williams’ sisters journey, I can still see Serena is a marvel on the court...and I can see she is 100% wrong here. 

 

Serena has to apologise to the umpire.

[ri Alban]

All Umpires considering  boycotting Serena Williams matches. Good on them.  The spoilt brat can't take getting beat. Bad loser, plain and simple. 

 

 

 

I've never seen Venus act like this. 

[Nookie Bear]

21 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

All Umpires considering  boycotting Serena Williams matches. Good on them.  The spoilt brat can't take getting beat. Bad loser, plain and simple. 

 

 

 

I've never seen Venus act like this. 

 

As Willians is doing this on behalf of women, and the WTA have backed her, the umpires need to boycott all women’s tennis (if they are going down that road)

[shaun.lawson]

50 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I have huge respect for what Serena and Venus have achieved, and the circumstances in which they have had to operate since first picking up tennis rackets. 

 

But should that excuse questioning the integrity of the umpire? Threatening him by saying he will never work on a court with her again? A black American woman can justify her anger by verbally abusing a Spanish man in a game against a Japanese lady?? 

 

I can still respect the Williams’ sisters journey, I can still see Serena is a marvel on the court...and I can see she is 100% wrong here. 

 

Serena has to apologise to the umpire.

 

Fully agree with all this.

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Aye right. More expert on things than you ever will be. 

 

If you could point me towards your 'expertise' on any of:

 

- Racism

 

- Sexism

 

- What women think and experience

 

I'd be most grateful.

 

Yours expectantly, etc etc.  

[John Findlay]

12 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

If you could point me towards your 'expertise' on any of:

 

- Racism

 

- Sexism

 

- What women think and experience

 

I'd be most grateful.

 

Yours expectantly, etc etc.  

Zzzzzzz. 

[Victorian]

Comparing Tennis umpires to Scottish Football referees is a rather obtuse piece of whataboutery.      

 

 

[Ray Gin]

6 hours ago, Stokesy said:

To be fair to Rowling the cartoon she was responding to is pretty dodgy

 

 

Very dodgy.

 

Why is her opponent depicted as a blonde-haired white girl?

[Dawnrazor]

11 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Very dodgy.

 

Why is her opponent depicted as a blonde-haired white girl?

Her opponent has her hair died blonde and is Asian. 

[robroy1874]

This is just so unfair and clearly sexist. There should be equality in tennis. Females should be allowed to play best of five sets like the men. How dare a male umpire bully that fragile icon Serena, who is a mother. As a mother shouldn't she be given a one game start every game? Just disgraceful how she was treated and how she showed her class by accepting her defeat in good grace and making sure her 21 year old opponent who fully deserved her win had the full plaudits she deserved. 

[redjambo]

26 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Very dodgy.

 

Why is her opponent depicted as a blonde-haired white girl?

 

I know, it's weird that they're saying that. The skin shading is obvious on Osaka in the cartoon.

[Mark M]

21 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Tell me, are you actually a football fan, or do you just enjoying going on various forums to put across your sociopolitical viewpoint? Genuine question.

 

Both, although I sacked off Twitter a while ago and not a forum type. I'm Ex season ticket and catch games when I am back in Scotland such as the St Mirren game. And I genuinely think Football's in trouble if they go down the Tennis equity route (which is not to say I'm not fully supportive of increased female participation).

[Mark M]

48 minutes ago, robroy1874 said:

This is just so unfair and clearly sexist. There should be equality in tennis. Females should be allowed to play best of five sets like the men. How dare a male umpire bully that fragile icon Serena, who is a mother. As a mother shouldn't she be given a one game start every game? Just disgraceful how she was treated and how she showed her class by accepting her defeat in good grace and making sure her 21 year old opponent who fully deserved her win had the full plaudits she deserved. 

Serena's also got form for repeated abuse and targeting of woman line judges and umpires.

Incredible to see this level of straight faced hypocrisy cloaked in righteousness . And here's the daily Beeb pearler.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45476500

[redjambo]

12 minutes ago, Mark M said:

 

Both, although I sacked off Twitter a while ago and not a forum type. I'm Ex season ticket and catch games when I am back in Scotland such as the St Mirren game. And I genuinely think Football's in trouble if they go down the Tennis equity route (which is not to say I'm not fully supportive of increased female participation).

 

Fair enough. I personally don't have a problem with Lewes FC's decision. It's their choice. It's not compulsory. Just à propos, I disagree with Tennis equity if women don't play the same number of sets than men.

Edited September 11, 2018 by redjambo

[benny]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I have huge respect for what Serena and Venus have achieved, and the circumstances in which they have had to operate since first picking up tennis rackets. 

 

But should that excuse questioning the integrity of the umpire? Threatening him by saying he will never work on a court with her again? A black American woman can justify her anger by verbally abusing a Spanish man in a game against a Japanese lady?? 

 

I can still respect the Williams’ sisters journey, I can still see Serena is a marvel on the court...and I can see she is 100% wrong here. 

 

Serena has to apologise to the umpire.

Good post.As was Shaun's above it.

[Dawnrazor]

I really do hope the Umpires boycott her matches, I fear the racist/sexist card will be played by some though, they should boycott any player who behaves in such a manner. 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 05:47, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Utterly incredible the way the WTA and others are fighting her corner. Proof that she's a lot bigger than the women's game and that the sport has no standards.

 

 

[Victorian]

34 minutes ago, Mark M said:

Serena's also got form for repeated abuse and targeting of woman line judges and umpires.

Incredible to see this level of straight faced hypocrisy cloaked in righteousness . And here's the daily Beeb pearler.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45476500

 

I read that earlier.    A clear case of self-indulgence.     Someone trying desperately to appear extremely clever and merely succeeding in being a mindless parrot.     

[robroy1874]

Thought the cartoon was quite good.  Aren't they meant to exaggerate features?

[Rocco_Jambo]

3 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Very dodgy.

 

Why is her opponent depicted as a blonde-haired white girl?

 

So on the one hand it’s racist because he’s racially stereotyped the black female but also racist because he’s not racially stereotyped the Asian female enough?

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Rocco_Jambo

[Dawnrazor]

7 hours ago, robroy1874 said:

Thought the cartoon was quite good.  Aren't they meant to exaggerate features?

Exactly. 

[Victorian]

A caricature is meant to exaggerate facial features for the purpose of humour.    Since certain facial features are innately race sensitive,    any such caricature will always tend to be controversial in nature.      Should people of any particular race be exempt from being the subect of a caricature?     No.     But it's skating on thin ice.

[Ron Burgundy]

39 minutes ago, Victorian said:

A caricature is meant to exaggerate facial features for the purpose of humour.    Since certain facial features are innately race sensitive,    any such caricature will always tend to be controversial in nature.      Should people of any particular race be exempt from being the subect of a caricature?     No.     But it's skating on thin ice.

Agreed.

A caricature exaggerates the obvious.

Maybe the world is too sensitive for such things nowadays.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

The Guardian cartoonist portrays the PM as a grotesque haggard old witch nearly every day. Sexist? Misogynist?

Edited September 12, 2018 by Francis Albert

[ri Alban]

16 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian cartoonist portrays the PM as a grotesque haggard old witch nearly every day. Sexist? Misogynist?

Witchist. 

[John Findlay]

18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian cartoonist portrays the PM as a grotesque haggard old witch nearly every day. Sexist? Misogynist?

They're allowed. The PM is a Tory and the Guardian is a left leaning paper so that makes it alright. Those are the rules. You not cottoned on yet.

[I P Knightley]

21 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian cartoonist portrays the PM as a grotesque haggard old witch nearly every day. Sexist? Misogynist?

Are you sure it's not a photograph?

 

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Witchist. 

Very good

[7628mm]

 

13 hours ago, robroy1874 said:

Thought the cartoon was quite good.  Aren't they meant to exaggerate features?

 

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

A caricature is meant to exaggerate facial features for the purpose of humour.    Since certain facial features are innately race sensitive,    any such caricature will always tend to be controversial in nature.      Should people of any particular race be exempt from being the subect of a caricature?     No.     But it's skating on thin ice.

 

45 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Agreed.

A caricature exaggerates the obvious.

Maybe the world is too sensitive for such things nowadays.

 

 

 

This popped up on Facepuss so I just thought I would post it to show that other cartoonists have portrayed Serena. For some unknown reason I cannot recollect these being slammed in a similar fashion to the recent US Open one.

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

And yet more Guardian deflection from the real issue

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/serena-williams-cartoon-racism-censorship-mark-knight-herald-sun

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

And yet more Guardian deflection from the real issue

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/serena-williams-cartoon-racism-censorship-mark-knight-herald-sun

 

He's a bit of a slaver but he seems to have landed a blow with the distinction between a caricature of a person and a caricature of a person of a particular race.     That's the crucial nuance that makes this caricature,    arguably many,    dicey.

 

I'm still not saying it was racist but it could very easily be that a cartoonist inadvertently creates the latter whilst attempting to create the former.    

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

22 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

He's a bit of a slaver but he seems to have landed a blow with the distinction between a caricature of a person and a caricature of a person of a particular race.     That's the crucial nuance that makes this caricature,    arguably many,    dicey.

 

I'm still not saying it was racist but it could very easily be that a cartoonist inadvertently creates the latter whilst attempting to create the former.    

 

The cartoon is a fairly racist depiction. But his apologies for Williams’ behaviour wrecks his credibility. 

[Victorian]

8 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

The cartoon is a fairly racist depiction. But his apologies for Williams’ behaviour wrecks his credibility. 

 

Yes the cartoon is a very useful thing for Williams.

[Nookie Bear]

11 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

And yet more Guardian deflection from the real issue

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/serena-williams-cartoon-racism-censorship-mark-knight-herald-sun

 

It's a pretty fair argument against the cartoon imo

 

I suppose there is issue when he (rightly) says that you have the right to draw the picture but you must then appreciate the backlash that will happen. Does this apply to cartoons that are offensive to Muslims? Are you "asking for it"?

[ri Alban]

It's now moved from Serena not having a leg to stand on, to her now being the victim. Imo. Those cartoons are pathetic. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

It's now moved from Serena not having a leg to stand on, to her now being the victim. Imo. Those cartoons are pathetic. 

 

The cartoon is spot on in what it’s trying to say - she’s a brat who thinks the sport belongs to her.

[ri Alban]

42 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

The cartoon is spot on in what it’s trying to say - she’s a brat who thinks the sport belongs to her.

I know she is, but it doesn't give folk the right to have a free fly dig at her ethnicity. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by ri Alban