US Open Tennis

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, RussAsia said:

I'm glad i came on here to read this. Everyone has the same opinions about it as me..

 

Having to listen to/read Andy Roddick, Billie Jean King even Sue Barker say how Serena was picked on.. ridiculous and will just fuel her to say more.. Hope she gets a long ban.

 

Even more so than other sports (because everyone's touring together almost all year long, players and commentators alike), it's very cosy at the top of tennis. Most people at that level I imagine are scared of upsetting Serena and thus making life difficult for themselves in the future. I notice that the Americans in particular very quickly closed ranks around Serena. Leaves a bitter taste...

 

[John Findlay]

Fined 13,000 pounds. So that's 40 love to Serena. Behaved like a spoilt brat regardless of alleged happenings in her past. Should have been banned but, wasn't as she is box office. 

My own mum had 3 children between April 63 and March 66. So whats your beef Serena?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Roger Federer wouldn't behave like that.

 

Sure, but that's not really the point I was making. Federer wouldn't behave like she did after the fact but there's also no way he would be called out by the umpire like that for his coach sending coded signals. I think that's more the point Serena was making when she alluded to sexism. 

[John Findlay]

Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Sure, but that's not really the point I was making. Federer wouldn't behave like she did after the fact but there's also no way he would be called out by the umpire like that for his coach sending coded signals. I think that's more the point Serena was making when she alluded to sexism. 

She was talking bollocks and trying to justify her cheating. Many male tennis players have been called out for it. Sexism had **** all to do with it. The umpire enforced the rules as laid down in the rule book. She didn't like it and has well and truly thrown her toys out the pram. Playing the sexism card just makes her sound more bitter than she already is.

[Taffin]

Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Sure, but that's not really the point I was making. Federer wouldn't behave like she did after the fact but there's also no way he would be called out by the umpire like that for his coach sending coded signals. I think that's more the point Serena was making when she alluded to sexism. 

 

I get what you're saying about the coaching point and your probably right but even if Roger did I imagine he'd take it on the chin rather than have a meltdown and blaming everyone else despite her coach admitting he was coaching her from the box. Maybe it happens more in the woman's game as it is allowed on the WTA (I think?) so the coaches possibly do it much more than the men's coaches so by the law of averages they get penalised for it more? Men have been penalised for it too in the past which doesn't really suit her agenda.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

19 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

She was talking bollocks and trying to justify her cheating. Many male tennis players have been called out for it. Sexism had **** all to do with it. The umpire enforced the rules as laid down in the rule book. She didn't like it and has well and truly thrown her toys out the pram. Playing the sexism card just makes her sound more bitter than she already is.

Simples. She overlooks all the other things that happened leading up to the meltdown - the coaching wasn't her only misdemeanour. She then compounds it by talking bollocks about what she is doing for equality in womens' tennis. She's got previous for this kind of behaviour  and it's time she was called out on it but the US media never will. 

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Simples. She overlooks all the other things that happened leading up to the meltdown - the coaching wasn't her only misdemeanour. She then compounds it by talking bollocks about what she is doing for equality in womens' tennis. She's got previous for this kind of behaviour  and it's time she was called out on it but the US media never will. 

No not many will call her out. Her skin colour has alot to do with that as that is another weapon in her perceived everyone is out to get me agenda. To play when she thinks it's needed.

[Thaw]

36 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Sure, but that's not really the point I was making. Federer wouldn't behave like she did after the fact but there's also no way he would be called out by the umpire like that for his coach sending coded signals. I think that's more the point Serena was making when she alluded to sexism. 

 

The Guardian reports that the same umpire clashed with Rafael Nadal over minor offences in last year's French Open, and therefore arguably shoots itself in the foot while attempting to defend Serena. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/09/carlos-ramos-serena-williams-tennis-umpire-us-open

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, Thaw said:

 

The Guardian reports that the same umpire clashed with Rafael Nadal over minor offences in last year's French Open, and therefore arguably shoots itself in the foot while attempting to defend Serena. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/09/carlos-ramos-serena-williams-tennis-umpire-us-open

So she was talking bollocks.

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, Thaw said:

 

The Guardian reports that the same umpire clashed with Rafael Nadal over minor offences in last year's French Open, and therefore arguably shoots itself in the foot while attempting to defend Serena. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/09/carlos-ramos-serena-williams-tennis-umpire-us-open

assuming this link is accurate the umpire has penalised venus for the same coaching, along with nadal, djokovic, and murray for infringetments 

 

http://larrybrownsports.com/tennis/umpire-carlos-ramos-history-code-violations-serena-williams/463180

[Thaw]

6 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

assuming this link is accurate the umpire has penalised venus for the same coaching, along with nadal, djokovic, and murray for infringetments 

 

http://larrybrownsports.com/tennis/umpire-carlos-ramos-history-code-violations-serena-williams/463180

 

A welcome injection of facts, thanks. This may still only be 'edited highlights' but it's a lot better than saying that the Alize Cornet incident (which I agree was ridiculous) somehow 'proves' that Serena was only penalised because of sexism.

[ri Alban]

Serena showing his true colours once again. Boot!

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

24 minutes ago, Thaw said:

 

The Guardian reports that the same umpire clashed with Rafael Nadal over minor offences in last year's French Open, and therefore arguably shoots itself in the foot while attempting to defend Serena. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/09/carlos-ramos-serena-williams-tennis-umpire-us-open

 

That's a sore one for her. Kind of smashes the sexism argument to bits. 

[Dawnrazor]

Scandalous behaviour, should receive a ban. 

[Tazio]

I can, off the top of my head, think of two previous incidents at the US open where her behaviour has gone well over the line. Including one occasion where it could be said she threatened the umpire. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Its tennis not a knitting competition….she's passionate...and face was tripping her obviously as she was getting beaten....looks like she might not get that holy grail of 24 slams  . shame as she is easily the greatest player in the game 

[milky_26]

13 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I can, off the top of my head, think of two previous incidents at the US open where her behaviour has gone well over the line. Including one occasion where it could be said she threatened the umpire. 

2009 v the line judge, again she was losing so lost it

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/sep/13/serena-williams-tirade-us-open

[Gorgiewave]

9 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

2009 v the line judge, again she was losing so lost it

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/sep/13/serena-williams-tirade-us-open

 

Spoilt cow.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Stupid cow

[CJGJ]

The female 'tennis experts' come out in her support but admit the ruling was correct based on the tennis regulations/laws currently in place...so they admit it was the right action but simply because 'someone else got way with it' in other matches Williams should not have been punished.

 

The fear of some to stand up against Williams in case they are labelled sexist shows you just how she has tried to twist the story from her own (and her coaches ) stupidity

 

Her rant against officials is not the first one she has made either

 

She may well be the greatest female tennis player but she is not the example for others she is often painted to be

 

 

[Judge Fudge]

Both Williams sisters have been great for the women's game no doubt about it. Its a shame that she made a complete arse of herself. At one point she mentions that every time she comes here this happens? She's won it 6 times. Felt sorry for Osaka, who started brilliantly and had ice in her veins when serena attempted the mind games. It was a desperate attempt to change momentum that backfired. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

It's maybe a good night's sleep Serena needs. She should get herself a decent mattress. Oh wait. 

[The Brow]

Either way, the American crowd are complete and utter wankers for booing Osaka when she was collecting her trophy. 

 

****ing pricks. 

[Gorgiewave]

Osaka is apparently a dual Japanese-American citizen so they could have still given her home support.

[Bindy Badgy]

The fine was 0.9% of Williams' prize money so not exactly a deterrent against doing it again. She should definitely get some sort of ban for that type of behaviour.

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Stokesy

[The Brow]

2 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

The fine was 0.9% of Williams' prize money so not exactly a deterrent against doing it again. She should definitely get some sort of ban for that type of behaviour.

 

 

The only bans the tennis authorities seem to dish out are for drugs, match fixing and other corruptions. Other than Kyrgios getting a ban for being a complete ***** for the 100th time, I cant recall many bans. 

[rudi must stay]

Potentially a classic tonight. Del Potro is so attacking minded and is playing fantastic tennis, but Djokovic is such a consistent yet determined player. I think 5 sets is almost guaranteed

[rudi must stay]

Somehow I think how this set is going suits Djokovic. He is reading everything Del Potro's doing 

[rudi must stay]

Del Po hasn't been going for his shots. To have any chance he has to do that

[rudi must stay]

Wall mode and his ability to suss out his opponents makes Djokovic for me the best of all time. Him v Murray in the Australian Open is the best performance I have seen on a tennis court, you couldn't put the ball anywhere and this is the same story. The intensity is incredible and to win any points they have to be wonderful shots and as anyone that plays tennis will say 'not percentage shots'

[rudi must stay]

Djokovic is quite frankly taking the... With the shot clock. Which should be alot shorter

[neilnunb]

Too easy sadly.

 

Djokovic will overtake Federer eventually imo.

[Dawnrazor]

Susie Bomiface has just said on Sky News that she was treated in the way she was because she is black, female and has a greater BMI than other female tennis players, so there you have it. 

[Gorgiewave]

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Susie Bomiface has just said on Sky News that she was treated in the way she was because she is black, female and has a greater BMI than other female tennis players, so there you have it. 

Imagine the horror of being abused so much that you only won 23 Grand Slams. The absolute horror.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

6 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Susie Bomiface has just said on Sky News that she was treated in the way she was because she is black, female and has a greater BMI than other female tennis players, so there you have it. 

 

Who the **** is Susie Bomiface?

[John Findlay]

5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Who the **** is Susie Bomiface?

Good question.

[Nookie Bear]

8 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Susie Bomiface has just said on Sky News that she was treated in the way she was because she is black, female and has a greater BMI than other female tennis players, so there you have it. 

 

Or.......she questioned the umpire’s integrity, an act that is explicitly stated in the laws as being a serious violation. 

 

Sue Barker said she has heard worse from the men, but I just feel there is a difference between arguing a point and disagreeing with a decision, and outright calling the umpire a cheat. 

 

Even in football, you would get a straight yellow if you called the ref a liar and a cheat. 

 

Unfortunately nobody seems to be asking for evidence if men doing the same, and give names. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Nookie Bear

[John Findlay]

21 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Or.......she questioned the umpire’s integrity, an act that is explicitly stated in the laws as being a serious violation. 

 

Sue Barker said she has heard worse from the men, but I just feel there is a difference between arguing a point and disagreeing with a decision, and outright calling the umpire a cheat. 

 

Even in football, you would get a straight yellow if you called the ref a liar and a cheat. 

 

Unfortunately nobody seems to be asking for evidence if men doing the same, and give names. 

 

 

I'll say it until I am maroon in the face. Women are not after equality, they are after preferential treatment on the sole ground that they are a woman /women.

[Nookie Bear]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I'll say it until I am maroon in the face. Women are not after equality, they are after preferential treatment on the sole ground that they are a woman /women.

 

well they have equal prize money, so that's a star

 

I just get frustrated when people are allowed to make statements such as "men do it all the time" without being asked to give examples.

 

It's like journalists are too scared to be blacklisted by the WTA, if it is felt they are challenging their position. And if Serena named a journalist who started pushing for evidence, that journalist would receive a huge backlash from the public.

 

Basically, until i hear proof that a male tennis player called an umpire a liar and cheat during a game - and got away with it - then they can all shut the **** up.

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Or.......she questioned the umpire’s integrity, an act that is explicitly stated in the laws as being a serious violation. 

 

Sue Barker said she has heard worse from the men, but I just feel there is a difference between arguing a point and disagreeing with a decision, and outright calling the umpire a cheat. 

 

Even in football, you would get a straight yellow if you called the ref a liar and a cheat. 

 

Unfortunately nobody seems to be asking for evidence if men doing the same, and give names. 

 

 

Wouldn't football be a red if you directly called a ref a cheat?

 

That's at least the 2nd time Williams has went full on personal and vitriolic attack on an official.

 

And I still don't understand the 'I'm a mother' comment

 

I wonder what the other recent precedents and punishments have been for similar attacks, male or female? I'm not counting Nastasie / McEnroe, different era, different levels of 'obscene' prize money and today's sports people because of fame, social media, sponsorship and so on are meant to be even greater role models.

 

Personally, I now hope the officials stick together and treat her completely by the rule book and zero tolerance.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by DETTY29

[Victorian]

She should be banned.     A total disgrace.    

[DETTY29]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

She should be banned.     A total disgrace.    

Sport in general imo opinion is far too lenient with disciplinary matters and you can only follow disciplinary procedures but it's laughable she was only fined.

 

It may not be possible under WTA rules, but she should have faced some form of disciplinary committee to explain her actions.

Edited September 10, 2018 by DETTY29

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Utterly incredible the way the WTA and others are fighting her corner. Proof that she's bigger than the women's game and that the sport has no standards.

[John Findlay]

16 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Utterly incredible the way the WTA and others are fighting her corner. Proof that she's bigger than the women's game and that the sport has no standards.

Correct. Whether you are ranked no1 in the world or 501 the rules are the same or should be the same for all. She broke the rules, she suffers the consequences. Regardless of the fact she is female, black and a mother. So what.

Edited September 10, 2018 by John Findlay

[Thaw]

40 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

And I still don't understand the 'I'm a mother' comment

 

 

 

To possibly clarify, but not justify, Williams' argument in the video seems to be something like "I raise my daughter to live the right way and I would never show her a bad example by cheating." (That detail seems to have been omitted from the match reports I've seen.)  There may be room for debate over whether Williams actually saw the signals from her coach, or interpreted them as he intended, but even if she didn't, it's still considered a violation.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I'll say it until I am maroon in the face. Women are not after equality, they are after preferential treatment on the sole ground that they are a woman /women.

 

What, all of them?

[Thaw]

49 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I wonder what the other recent precedents and punishments have been for similar attacks, male or female?

 

 

 

I tried to search for stats on players' discipline this season, but they didn't seem easy to find. However, this below-the-line comment in the Guardian comes across as fair-minded and knowledgeable:

 

"He [the umpire] called three code violations. The first for 'coaching' - the offence being committed by the coach, but counting against the player as a code violation. The second for racket abuse, when Serena smashed a racket (this is more or less automatic, if you actually render the racket unusable, it is called a code violation just about every time). The third for verbal abuse, when Serena demanded he apologize to her and called him a 'thief'.

 

The rule is that there is no direct penalty for a first code violation. For a second code violation, you get a point penalty (meaning that the next point is awarded to your opponent). As the second code violation was given right after a game that Serena served, Osaka was awarded the first point of her next service game and started at 15-0 (she then served the game out easily to love). For a third code violation (and each subsequent violation after that), you get a game penalty, meaning you immediately lose the game in progress. As the third violation was again awarded between games (just as Serena was walking out to receive at 3-4), that meant the entire game was immediately awarded to Osaka, meaning the score went to 3-5 on Serena's serve.

 

So far as the consequences of the violations went, everything was handled exactly correctly. Each of the violations was certainly defensible within the rules of the game. The racket abuse violation was basically automatic, as I mentioned.

 

The other two are rather more subjective and controversial calls. Coaching is called quite rarely, and it's always controversial, because virtually all coaches "coach" to some extent during a match (often almost subconsciously) and it's pretty hard to discern any kind of consistent 'line' between what's let go and what isn't. I don't think the WTA or ATP or the major rules committees really give out any kind of consistent guidance on what should be called as a violation and what shouldn't, so it's pretty random. Calling a violation on a hand signal from the far end of the court in a major final is a pretty...unusual thing to do (I can't recall any other grand slam final where a coaching violation has been given, but I've certainly seen coaches giving hand signals in grand slam finals before).

 

Verbal abuse is also pretty inconsistently called. I've seen it called for *less* than what Serena said, but I've also seen it *not* called for much *worse* than what Serena said. The call was certainly defensible, but at the same time, there's an argument that it would've been prudent for the umpire to just sit on it, given that Serena was already walking away, and the knowledge that calling the violation would result in a game penalty in part because of a previous arguable violation (the coaching one). I'd say it's a bit like the rule in ice hockey that two false starts on a puck drop results in a minor penalty: in practice the refs almost never call the second false start unless the offence is really egregious.

 

Especially given the situation, it might've worked out better for all parties (especially Osaka) if the umpire hadn't called the verbal abuse violation. He might at least have told Serena "look, don't say another word, or I'll have to give you a verbal abuse violation, and I don't want to do that" - given her an opportunity to just cool it and walk away, and avoid the game penalty being called. It's *extremely* rare for a player to actually get to a game penalty, I don't recall the last time I saw it happen."

 

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

What, all of them?

No. A large majority of them.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

No. A large majority of them.

 

That's a pretty bold claim. Let's take just the UK alone. You think tens of millions of women in the UK want preferential treatment just because they're women? If that was true, they'd be in charge of everything by now, no? You're also saying the same ofa large majority of the wives, girlfriends and adult daughters of the men who post on this forum. Is your wife Ike that? How about mine?

[John Findlay]

30 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

That's a pretty bold claim. Let's take just the UK alone. You think tens of millions of women in the UK want preferential treatment just because they're women? If that was true, they'd be in charge of everything by now, no? You're also saying the same ofa large majority of the wives, girlfriends and adult daughters of the men who post on this forum. Is your wife Ike that? How about mine?

Yes.