Armed Forces Day

[poultry]

Just now, jambocraig89 said:

As a ex servicemen I feel this is a good thing that the club is doing. With our long history with our armed forces with Mcraes Battalion and now with the club being the official football club for HMS Queen Elizabeth its good to see that the club is recognizing this tradition. Understand its not every ones cup of tea especially now our armed forces are not in many combat roles that will make you feel proud. But do understand our armed forces do a lot of work in the back round that wont get much recognition like recently helping with fire services on saddle worth moors, helping communities when floods hit, protecting vital shipping lanes from piracy in the gulf of Aden with a lot of the cargo coming to the UK through that route, Helping hurricane hit communities in the Caribbean, helping communities that were hit by the tsunami in 2004 and helping with mountain and sea recuses across the country. Our armed forces are there doing a lot more than a 9-5 and are always on stand by for when the next dictator is ready to kick off. Its one day a year where we recognize those who have served, lost there lives, gave life and limb and are currently still protecting our interests and helping communities across the world. don't see why so many would get there backs up with this.  

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I'm all for it! 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I'm dead against this! 

[Rudy T]

1 hour ago, August Landmesser said:

Also, if opposing the armed services is political, then so is supporting them. That's logic, baby!

 

No its not. You personally oppose the armed forces for political reasons that's a fact.

 

Supporting the service men and women for serving the country is a token of gratitude for doing so. The service men and women don't have a say in the politics, they defend the nation without  question. You can oppose the politics behind the wars they fight but still have respect and support for the men and women who are sent there. They also don't just fight wars they are asked to do a number of different things many to the benefit of communities around not only the UK but the world. Many have served and lost their lives on peace keeping missions do you oppose that also?

[kila]

30 minutes ago, jambocraig89 said:

As a ex servicemen I feel this is a good thing that the club is doing. With our long history with our armed forces with Mcraes Battalion and now with the club being the official football club for HMS Queen Elizabeth its good to see that the club is recognizing this tradition. Understand its not every ones cup of tea especially now our armed forces are not in many combat roles that will make you feel proud. But do understand our armed forces do a lot of work in the back round that wont get much recognition like recently helping with fire services on saddle worth moors, helping communities when floods hit, protecting vital shipping lanes from piracy in the gulf of Aden with a lot of the cargo coming to the UK through that route, Helping hurricane hit communities in the Caribbean, helping communities that were hit by the tsunami in 2004 and helping with mountain and sea recuses across the country. Our armed forces are there doing a lot more than a 9-5 and are always on stand by for when the next dictator is ready to kick off. Its one day a year where we recognize those who have served, lost there lives, gave life and limb and are currently still protecting our interests and helping communities across the world. don't see why so many would get there backs up with this.  

 

Good post, but the bit in bold is key to my feelings. Armed Forces Days to me are hijacked by a fair few certain main stream media outlets to glorify certain corrupt wars that the country has been in instead of the things you mentioned. Sadly, like the poppy has become, it is all very political. While the club's intentions are true to the heart it brings a can of worms with it, especially with this being a yearly thing now.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by kila

[Taffin]

Not a fan of this.

[Seymour M Hersh]

This thread.

 

 

[luckydug]

43 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

We are a club that has always been closely associated with the armed forces. There's a clock at Haymarket as testament to that. The armed forces have every right as anyone else to recruit. No one is pressed ganged nowadays. We no lonfer have national service. Those that sign the dotted line do so of their on volition. You don't like it. Tough.

See your last sentence.

That says that they are paid employees it is their choice to join up. Unlike the troops of ww1 and ww2 who had no choice in the matter .

The modern soldier may well be a hero if called upon but so may be firemen ,paramedics, policemen and women and coastguards mountain rescue etc.

If we are going to honour soldiers we should be doing the same for other heroes.

[John Findlay]

57 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Not at all, the wages are clear to see when someone signs up, doubt anyone joins up for the money! 

I never. Got £30 a fortnight in the hand from September 1979-April 1980. Joined my first ship after that and my pay jumped to £106 a fortnight. I was loaded. Pardon the pun.

[Tams bird]

  Not bothering me at all.  More things to worry about.  

[Boab]

26 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Whatever your opinion, WTF has religion got to do with this

 Nothing, mate, absolutely nothing.

[John Findlay]

37 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

We're a club that has a historical link with WWI due to several footballers enlisting - that's not the same as being closely associated with the armed forces. I did not express myself particularly well in my OP or in several posts since; a few other posters have done a lot better job of articulating the issues than I did.

 

However, I am uneasy with an 'Armed Forces Day', as I am (mostly) a pacifist, and I am also uneasy with such a day being imposed upon people who just want to have a nice day at the football. 

 

The armed forces covenant is a different issue - I think it is a worthy idea, and the majority of folk who sign up for it do so for good intentions, but it is also a way for the government to wash its hands of responsibility for ex-servicepeople that have suffered as a direct result of the government's decisions and interventions (how many of the homeless are ex-servicemen? How many suicides? Where's the glory in that?).

 

I'm sorry if I've upset or pissed off any ex (or current) service personnel on here, who do what they do for many reasons and have lived tougher lives than many of us, but I hope you can understand my (and others') unease with the whole shindig. 

However, I'm not sorry if I've upset or pissed off anyone who uses the term 'Celtic-minded' and means it. Those lot can GTF.

I'll probably be at the game on Sunday, but I might turn up a bit late.

 

That is your perogative to turn up late. Just remember many gave their lives in order for you to have your perogative.

As your comment to several. It was a whole team and more. Who gave up a league title as it was their perogative to do.

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, luckydug said:

See your last sentence.

That says that they are paid employees it is their choice to join up. Unlike the troops of ww1 and ww2 who had no choice in the matter .

The modern soldier may well be a hero if called upon but so may be firemen ,paramedics, policemen and women and coastguards mountain rescue etc.

If we are going to honour soldiers we should be doing the same for other heroes.

I don't disagree with you. Write to the club and let them know how you feel.

[sidjamesbottle]

1 hour ago, Beats said:

This is very welcome news. Good on the club.

 

Shame on you if you have an issue with this.

well said sir !

[johnthomas]

35 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Whatever your opinion, WTF has religion got to do with this

Nothing ? Not sure if anyone brought it up ?

[heartmussel]

12 minutes ago, Tams bird said:

  Not bothering me at all.  More things to worry about.  

Me to.And football takes my mind of these things?

[August Landmesser]

9 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

That is your perogative to turn up late. Just remember many gave their lives in order for you to have your perogative.

As your comment to several. It was a whole team and more. Who gave up a league title as it was their perogative to do.

They gave up something more important than a league title.

[Jeff]

It's like a lot of people have forgotten about our clubs history and what we stand for. This isn't to have a dig at Celtic either.

 

I'm all for it

Edited July 25, 2018 by Jeff

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

It's like a lot of people have forgotten about our clubs history and what we stand for. This isn't to have a dig at Celtic either.

 

I'm all for it

 

What do we “stand for” ?

[Jeff]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

What do we “stand for” ?

 

We are a family club. Our whole squad gave the ultimate sacrifice in WW1 when the league title was in reach. A club with one of the proudest histories in the world.

 

Let's not let Rangers armed forces day - which is usually just a dig at Celtic -  spoil ours.

[stirlo]

The reaction to this is interesting as even 10 years ago I imagine that any opposition to this sort of thing would be minimal. I strongly suspect that there is an age correlation here too i.e. people over a certain age are more likely to be in favour than the younger generation.

 

What surprises me is the level of general hostility some people seem to display towards the military. I think it's important to make a distinction between the military and those that make the decisions on their deployment i.e. the politicians. The 2003 invasion of Iraq has been mentioned a few times. But the blame for the disastrous consequences of that invasion lies firmly with the politicians - not the military.     

Edited July 25, 2018 by stirlo

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

We are a family club. Our whole squad gave the ultimate sacrifice in WW1 when the league title was in reach. A club with one of the proudest histories in the world.

 

Let's not let Rangers armed forces day - which is usually just a dig at Celtic -  spoil ours.

 

We remember them in November, don’t we?

 

 

[Jeff]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

We remember them in November, don’t we?

 

 

 

True. Can we give them enough credit though?

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

True. Can we give them enough credit though?

 

What do you propose?

[SE16 3LN]

31 minutes ago, Boab said:

 Nothing, mate, absolutely nothing.

 

22 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

Nothing ? Not sure if anyone brought it up ?

I'm only asking because someone brought it up directly and several people have referred to Celtic. I must be too long out of Scotland. 

[Jeff]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

What do you propose?

 

I'm fairly happy with having an armed forces day as well as the yearly tribute in November.

[John Findlay]

5 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

We remember them in November, don’t we?

 

 

I personally remember them every day of the year.

[John Findlay]

9 minutes ago, stirlo said:

The reaction to this is interesting as even 10 years ago I imagine that any opposition to this sort of thing would be minimal. I strongly suspect that there is an age correlation here too i.e. people over a certain age are more likely to be in favour than the younger generation.

 

What surprises me is the level of general hostility some people seem to display towards the military. I think it's important to make a distinction between the military and those that make the decisions on their deployment i.e. the politicians. The 2003 invasion of Iraq has been mentioned a few times. But the blame for the disastrous consequences of that invasion lies firmly with the politicians - not the military.     

To use the old cliché. If politicians had to fight wars. They wouldn't start wars.

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I personally remember them every day of the year.

 

Not sure if you are being literal. 

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, Strachsuit said:

 

Precisely. And if AB is involved, you can be assured it won't be.

 

I really have no idea why anyone would be against this. Unless they are Celtic-minded, as I pointed out to the OP. 

Never knew I was Celtic minded.

I've kept that pretty well hidden over the last sixty years.

One of the good things about following Hearts is I can find common ground with people of different political ,religious and cultural beliefs . None of these things matter because we all support the Jambos and I am very reluctant to support anything that allies our club to a particular political stance.

 

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Not sure if you are being literal. 

Yes I am. I remember every day.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Only time this club should have anything to do with the Armed Forces in on remembrance day. 

This.

[Hogan3012]

This is the club thanking people who provide a public service, weather you agree with the governments choices on how they use the military is immaterial to this day. Would the same people be complaining about a day for nurses or police fireman etc.

[Shanks]

It sounds utter shite.  Don't fancy going along to an army recruitment day when I'm trying to watch the football. 

 

Don't see the point in this at all. 

[sidjamesbottle]

2 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

It sounds utter shite.  Don't fancy going along to an army recruitment day when I'm trying to watch the football. 

 

Don't see the point in this at all. 

dont go then simples

[maroonexile]

1 hour ago, johnthomas said:

Poppy fascism is a common term used on the UK news , reputable newspapers etc . Never knew Naga Munchetty supported Celtic !

Anybody bringing 'Celtic' into this argument logically infers they have a certain agenda . I will do my best not to draw the obvious conclusion , I got sworn at the last time

I would suggest that people who use that term are the ones harbouring an agenda. I stand by the statement that you are the sole Scottish person who I have heard use that term who is not a Celtic fan. I would associate that term very closely with them where I’m from.

 

I’m not going down that route, I just find your opinion distasteful, even though you are entitled to it.

 

[Hogan3012]

1 minute ago, Longshanks said:

It sounds utter shite.  Don't fancy going along to an army recruitment day when I'm trying to watch the football. 

 

Don't see the point in this at all. 

 

What utter nonsense you think there will be people being conscripted while the game is on?? Youngster getting frogmarched into waiting vans outside to be taken away to the barracks??

 

Army recruitment day honestly....

[maroonexile]

2 minutes ago, Hogan3012 said:

 

What utter nonsense you think there will be people being conscripted while the game is on?? Youngster getting frogmarched into waiting vans outside to be taken away to the barracks??

 

Army recruitment day honestly....

Deserters will be shot at half time apparently.

[sidjamesbottle]

1 minute ago, maroonexile said:

Deserters will be shot at half time apparently.

Martin first i suggest !

[magicTs]

6 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

It sounds utter shite.  Don't fancy going along to an army recruitment day when I'm trying to watch the football. 

 

Don't see the point in this at all. 

 

 

Lol. Yep its going to be going on whilst the game is taking place. 

 

 

[Shanks]

3 minutes ago, Hogan3012 said:

 

What utter nonsense you think there will be people being conscripted while the game is on?? Youngster getting frogmarched into waiting vans outside to be taken away to the barracks??

 

Army recruitment day honestly....

 

 

'The three Services will also have a number of displays on the Foundation Plaza and supporters are encouraged to stop for a chat and to find out more about the role of our Armed Forces. '

 

I would 100% support an NHS day but an armed forces day is utter bullshit. 

[Nookie Bear]

9 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

I would suggest that people who use that term are the ones harbouring an agenda. I stand by the statement that you are the sole Scottish person who I have heard use that term who is not a Celtic fan. I would associate that term very closely with them where I’m from.

 

I’m not going down that route, I just find your opinion distasteful, even though you are entitled to it.

 

 

I’ve heard it said, and not by celtic fans. There is a life outside football, you know. 

[Hogan3012]

12 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

It sounds utter shite.  Don't fancy going along to an army recruitment day when I'm trying to watch the football. 

 

3 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

 

 

'The three Services will also have a number of displays on the Foundation Plaza and supporters are encouraged to stop for a chat and to find out more about the role of our Armed Forces. '

 

 

 

You watch the match from the foundation plaza that’s some going..

[sidjamesbottle]

4 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

 

 

'The three Services will also have a number of displays on the Foundation Plaza and supporters are encouraged to stop for a chat and to find out more about the role of our Armed Forces. '

 

I would 100% support an NHS day but an armed forces day is utter bullshit. 

find it quite funny that you have a king as leader of his armed forces as your handle on kickback ! 

[Cruyff Turn]

3 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

 

 

'The three Services will also have a number of displays on the Foundation Plaza and supporters are encouraged to stop for a chat and to find out more about the role of our Armed Forces. '

 

I would 100% support an NHS day but an armed forces day is utter bullshit. 

This.

I don't think the nhs, the fire service or the police have as many war crimes or massacres on their record either. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Traffic Wardens day next 

LGBT day as well.

[Felix Lighter]

Jeremy Vine had a fascinating interview today with 96 year old John Martin who's Lancaster bomber was shot down over Berlin in 1944, well worth a listen...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bbsfzj#play  starts at 1.08.30

 

As a staunch nationalist who served for 12 years I'm all for it.

[Scnorthedinburgh]

16 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

This.

I don't think the nhs, the fire service or the police have as many war crimes or massacres on their record either. 

You don't mind police brutality and stitching people up then? As long as it's not a war crime.

Nice people the police as a football fan you should know at least one reason why they shouldn't get time to do anything in connection with the club.

[Taffin]

36 minutes ago, Hogan3012 said:

This is the club thanking people who provide a public service, weather you agree with the governments choices on how they use the military is immaterial to this day. Would the same people be complaining about a day for nurses or police fireman etc.

 

Do nurses and firemen regularly go about killing  folk at the behest of the government?

 

I'd feel equally uncomfortable having a day of celebration  for the police.

 

I'm not against either the police or the armed forces (in fact I was a baw hair away from joining the forces) but they carry out some pretty unsavoury actions and shouldn't be celebrated at something like a football match. They are enforcers of the current political will, often with a deadly hand. I respect them greatly for being able to do that job but it doesn't belong in a football stadium.

[Scnorthedinburgh]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Do nurses and firemen regularly go about killing  folk at the behest of the government?

 

I'd feel equally uncomfortable having a day of celebration  for the police.

 

I'm not against either the police or the armed forces (in fact I was a baw hair away from joining the forces) but they carry out some pretty unsavoury actions and shouldn't be celebrated at something like a football match. They are enforcers of the current political will, often with a deadly hand. I respect them greatly for being able to do that job but it doesn't belong in a football stadium.

That's the remembrance service cancelled then.

Can't pick and choose what war or action within it is just.

Bloody hearts 1st team war criminals.

Or is a family feud war differnt from a political one.