Armed Forces Day

[August Landmesser]

10 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

 

Excellent posts, sums up my thoughts entirely. 

Mine too. Just wish I'd composed myself a bit better before blurting my OP into the ether.

Ah well...

[Chuck Berry]

9 hours ago, Scnorthedinburgh said:

Because that generation is now gone, it took on more reverence as the last of the survivors of the war were passing away.

Happened all over the world, Anzac day grew in importance so not just us.

 

I don't believe it's linked with the passing of the last remaining survivors of WWI at all, or that generation.

 

We went c90 years with a dignified commemoration of the Hearts team of WWI, it was largely a Hearts thing. There was never poppies on shirts before c2006/2007, or on programme covers, statues on the concourse, Cairns built on foreign fields. I'm not saying any of that is a bad thing, but it seems suddenly to have taken root in the trend to glorify the Armed Forces which began around the same time as we put poppies on the shirts.

 

Now we ramp it up and take it to the next level by having our own Armed Forces Day. 

 

It doesn't sit right and as was said previously, seems to be at the expense of remembering our great players of the past.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Chuck Berry

[Rudy T]

3 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

Mine too. Just wish I'd composed myself a bit better before blurting my OP into the ether.

Ah well...

 

I was also a little hasty and arsey with my replies yesterday... I apologise. I get it that it's an emotive subject and Im all for respecting other people's opinions. Like someone said above perhaps this thread reflects the feelings of the support and maybe it was best left alone or supported in a different way.

[August Landmesser]

3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I was also a little hasty and arsey with my replies yesterday... I apologise. I get it that it's an emotive subject and Im all for respecting other people's opinions. Like someone said above perhaps this thread reflects the feelings of the support and maybe it was best left alone or supported in a different way.

Good man Rudy. Yep, feelings running high. I'm still uneasy with the 'Armed Forces Day' bit, but the covenant is a good cause. I was imagining a North Korean-style military parade and getting het up, but I'll wait and see how it pans out on Sunday.

ICT might even win and take everyone's minds off it anyway!

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, August Landmesser said:

Good man Rudy. Yep, feelings running high. I'm still uneasy with the 'Armed Forces Day' bit, but the covenant is a good cause. I was imagining a North Korean-style military parade and getting het up, but I'll wait and see how it pans out on Sunday.

ICT might even win and take everyone's minds off it anyway!

 

If ICT win then CL might send the squad away with the army boys as a punishment...old school!

[August Landmesser]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

If ICT win then CL might send the squad away with the army boys as a punishment...old school!

Back to Gullane, then forced march up to the Highlands to sleep rough and eat squirrels for a week. Nice!

Tbf, that would be good prep for a trip to Hamilton...

Edited July 26, 2018 by August Landmesser

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

If ICT win then CL might send the squad away with the army boys as a punishment...old school!

 

A week's fighting in Aldershot town centre is excellent preparation for an away trip to Hamilton.

[Rudy T]

4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

A week's fighting in Aldershot town centre is excellent preparation for an away trip to Hamilton.

 

Can MacLean fight on a plastic pitch tho?

[Peebo]

56 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Plenty of others are deserving of being honoured for doing their job (which is what the armed forces are doing).

The trouble is where do you draw the line ?

Draw the line wherever you think is appropriate.

 

As a club, we’ve signed up to other initiatives. Why not just judge each one on its own merits? 

[OmiyaHearts]

Would have been better if the club held this  event on the day of the Celtic game. Now I would have liked to have seen that - even though I'm against events like Armed Forces Day at a football match.

[Boab]

9 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Would have been better if the club held this  event on the day of the Celtic game. Now I would have liked to have seen that - even though I'm against events like Armed Forces Day at a football match.

 

Don't be ridiculous. To do what ?

Score points ?

Have a word with yourself !

[jambo lodge]

If people in our support cannot see that the club is celebrating the people that make up our armed forces then they are as thick as mince. This is not a political stance nor a loyalist one so please get on board with what the club are doing.  

[The Treasurer]

6 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

If people in our support cannot see that the club is celebrating the people that make up our armed forces then they are as thick as mince. This is not a political stance nor a loyalist one so please get on board with what the club are doing.  

The question is not WHAT the club is doing, it is WHY the club have chosen to do it.

If you can't see that then you're "thick as mince"

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, The Treasurer said:

The question is not WHAT the club is doing, it is WHY the club have chosen to do it.

If you can't see that then you're "thick as mince"

[...a bit disco]

5 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

If people in our support cannot see that the club is celebrating the people that make up our armed forces then they are as thick as mince. This is not a political stance nor a loyalist one so please get on board with what the club are doing.  

 

But didn't the very same armed forces in question fight for people to have the rights of democracy, free will and to think and decide for themselves what's right or wrong?

[jambo lodge]

3 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

The question is not WHAT the club is doing, it is WHY the club have chosen to do it.

If you can't see that then you're "thick as mince"

Aye right, argument for argument sake. 

[jambo lodge]

3 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

But didn't the very same armed forces in question fight for people to have the rights of democracy, free will and to think and decide for themselves what's right or wrong?

That's what happens when you join the armed forces, you obey orders. You give up the choice of deciding what is right or wrong when you join up.

[The Treasurer]

Just now, jambo lodge said:

Aye right, argument for argument sake. 

Who's arguing ?

The fact is everyone can see what it is that the club are doing, however quite a few people are questioning why.

 

[jambo lodge]

6 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Who's arguing ?

The fact is everyone can see what it is that the club are doing, however quite a few people are questioning why.

 

Vast majority of fans are for it showing appreciation to our armed forces for what they do on our behalf.No need to ask why crystal clear to those who can appreciate our history.

[The Treasurer]

3 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Vast majority of fans are for it showing appreciation to our armed forces for what they do on our behalf.No need to ask why crystal clear to those who can appreciate our history.

Talk about missing the point.

We as a club do more than most to appreciate our history.

This has nothing to do with that. 

Like it or not, the subject of our present day armed forces divides opinion and as such, should be left well alone by us as a club

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

A week's fighting in Aldershot town centre is excellent preparation for an away trip to Hamilton.

 My money is on Big Uche to take out three paras with the one hit.

[John Findlay]

17 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

That's what happens when you join the armed forces, you obey orders. You give up the choice of deciding what is right or wrong when you join up.

Trust me you are wrong here.

[jambo lodge]

4 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Talk about missing the point.

We as a club do more than most to appreciate our history.

This has nothing to do with that. 

Like it or not, the subject of our present day armed forces divides opinion and as such, should be left well alone by us as a club

There more of us than you so Gorgie rules.Stop trying to politicise this.

[The Treasurer]

1 minute ago, jambo lodge said:

There more of us than you so Gorgie rules.Stop trying to politicise this.

Please show where in my posts I've "politicised" this debate.

[jambo lodge]

4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Trust me you are wrong here.

Aye sure, like the lads all had a choice whether to go to Iraq or the Falkland Islands.

[Tommy Walker]

As an old (p)Heart can I suggest...

 

that there's a difference between the 'employees', sometimes termed as cannon fodder / heroes,...

 

(but often meaning well-intentioned people fighting for what they consider a good cause)

 

and the 'bosses' who generally gain from war in the name of democracy, freedom etc...

 

and glorify those who suffer much, much more than them

 

while their 'net worth' increases proportionately

 

it's not protection/defence but offence/offensive

 

IMHO

 

TW

[BelgeJambo]

There is absolutely no political agenda here

IMO, the reason we have the Armed Forces  Covenant is because the politicians have failed our armed forces.

The care of our service people after conflicts and service to their country has been abysmal and only this incentive and charities like H4Hs have made some difference.

Those talking about boycotting the game, you need to grow a pair

If you support Hearts then you walk into the stadium as usual and  put this matter to the side

[John Findlay]

25 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Aye sure, like the lads all had a choice whether to go to Iraq or the Falkland Islands.

Guess what. With regards to Iraq. The first Gulf war. I and others were given the choice.

After my term of engagement I left the Royal Navy on the 16/04/90. The day before my 27th Birthday. At the time I was married and the father of a daughter who had just turned four.

June that year I Started work for IBM at their UK headquarters at North Harbour Portsmouth.

Three weeks after I started work there I got a letter from the Ministry of Defence asking me to comeback into the Navy for the duration of the first Gulf War as they were short of experienced personnel.

After much deliberation and discussion with my then wife. I politely refused their request. The main reason for saying no was because my wife was 7 months pregnant with our eldest son who was born in September 1990. Ironically on the 11/09/90. The MOD accepted my decision. If my wife had not been pregnant I would have said yes. As that is what I had spent the last eleven years of my life training for. My apprenticeship being the Falklands War.

I don't know your history or background but, I am going to take a guess that you have never served in the Army, Air Force or Navy. This next part might offend many who post on here. Many who have never served have an ignorance of what the British armed services do especially when not fighting a war and an ignorance of the men and women who do serve our have served.

I will make no apology for my service or for what I did during my service to anyone.

I will not criticise Heart of Midlothian for what they are doing this coming Sunday. I will applaud them.

By the same token I will not criticise anyone for taken the opposite view to me as, that is what living in a country where people have freedom of speech have the right to do. To my dying day I will always defend that right. Whether in or out of uniform.

[Peebo]

1 hour ago, The Treasurer said:

The question is not WHAT the club is doing, it is WHY the club have chosen to do it.

If you can't see that then you're "thick as mince"

While a lump of mince may not agree with the decision, it could probably understand why the club has chosen to do it. 

 

The lump of mince, and most others, may find it more difficult to understand why the club has not chosen to take part in other initiatives that it may or may not have ever been asked to participate in. 

[glynnlondon]

17 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Guess what. With regards to Iraq. The first Gulf war. I and others were given the choice.

After my term of engagement I left the Royal Navy on the 16/04/90. The day before my 27th Birthday. At the time I was married and the father of a daughter who had just turned four.

June that year I Started work for IBM at their UK headquarters at North Harbour Portsmouth.

Three weeks after I started work there I got a letter from the Ministry of Defence asking me to comeback into the Navy for the duration of the first Gulf War as they were short of experienced personnel.

After much deliberation and discussion with my then wife. I politely refused their request. The main reason for saying no was because my wife was 7 months pregnant with our eldest son who was born in September 1990. Ironically on the 11/09/90. The MOD accepted my decision. If my wife had not been pregnant I would have said yes. As that is what I had spent the last eleven years of my life training for. My apprenticeship being the Falklands War.

I don't know your history or background but, I am going to take a guess that you have never served in the Army, Air Force or Navy. This next part might offend many who post on here. Many who have never served have an ignorance of what the British armed services do especially when not fighting a war and an ignorance of the men and women who do serve our have served.

I will make no apology for my service or for what I did during my service to anyone.

I will not criticise Heart of Midlothian for what they are doing this coming Sunday. I will applaud them.

By the same token I will not criticise anyone for taken the opposite view to me as, that is what living in a country where people have freedom of speech have the right to do. To my dying day I will always defend that right. Whether in or out of uniform.

Well said sir

[Chuck Berry]

Browsing through the responses on twitter to this, those in favour seem to consist largely of huns, Orangemen, racicts and the lowest common denominator of our support. No surprises there.

[jambo lodge]

4 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

Browsing through the responses on twitter to this, those in favour seem to consist largely of huns, Orangemen, racicts and the lowest common denominator of our support. No surprises there.

Dear oh dear!!

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

Browsing through the responses on twitter to this, those in favour seem to consist largely of huns, Orangemen, racicts and the lowest common denominator of our support. No surprises there.

I am none of these as are many fellow Hearts supporters who are in favour of this.

[Chuck Berry]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

Vast majority of fans are for it showing appreciation to our armed forces for what they do on our behalf.No need to ask why crystal clear to those who can appreciate our history.

 

It's paid employment, just like our emergency services. Is it worthy of special appreciation ahead of our firemen, coastguards, paramedics, nurses, mountain rescue, many of whom are unpaid volunteers and who do actually save lives every single day? Where is the appreciation for them?

[Yoda]

6 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

Browsing through the responses on twitter to this, those in favour seem to consist largely of huns, Orangemen, racicts and the lowest common denominator of our support. No surprises there.

What a completely ignorant post.

[Chuck Berry]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

I am none of these as are many fellow Hearts supporters who are in favour of this.

 

No, but it's very much an illustration of why we should never get involved in this. One contributor said anyone who is against it probably wears a Bobby Sands t-shirt. This is the mentality of the people who will be all over this like flies over shit.

[Chuck Berry]

1 minute ago, Yoda said:

What a completely ignorant post.

 

Go check for yourself instead of calling people ignorant.

[jambo lodge]

31 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Guess what. With regards to Iraq. The first Gulf war. I and others were given the choice.

After my term of engagement I left the Royal Navy on the 16/04/90. The day before my 27th Birthday. At the time I was married and the father of a daughter who had just turned four.

June that year I Started work for IBM at their UK headquarters at North Harbour Portsmouth.

Three weeks after I started work there I got a letter from the Ministry of Defence asking me to comeback into the Navy for the duration of the first Gulf War as they were short of experienced personnel.

After much deliberation and discussion with my then wife. I politely refused their request. The main reason for saying no was because my wife was 7 months pregnant with our eldest son who was born in September 1990. Ironically on the 11/09/90. The MOD accepted my decision. If my wife had not been pregnant I would have said yes. As that is what I had spent the last eleven years of my life training for. My apprenticeship being the Falklands War.

I don't know your history or background but, I am going to take a guess that you have never served in the Army, Air Force or Navy. This next part might offend many who post on here. Many who have never served have an ignorance of what the British armed services do especially when not fighting a war and an ignorance of the men and women who do serve our have served.

I will make no apology for my service or for what I did during my service to anyone.

I will not criticise Heart of Midlothian for what they are doing this coming Sunday. I will applaud them.

By the same token I will not criticise anyone for taken the opposite view to me as, that is what living in a country where people have freedom of speech have the right to do. To my dying day I will always defend that right. Whether in or out of uniform.

Thanks for sharing that. As regards my background I did work directly to a Major General for a number of years in a related field so have a flavour of what the army expects of its personnel.

[John Findlay]

Just now, Chuck Berry said:

 

No, but it's very much an illustration of why we should never get involved in this. One contributor said anyone who is against it probably wears a Bobby Sands t-shirt. This is the mentality of the people who will be all over this like flies over shit.

They are a very loud minority. It's the way of the world nowadays. Them that shouts loudest believe they are in the right. Their support in favour is notes.  Their reasons for supporting are not. Well not by me anyway.

[RussAsia]

21 hours ago, Homme said:

Would be nicer if we showed some support to our NHS staff, or emergency services. People that actually make a difference in our day to day lives.

 

Why does it always have to be the armed forces?

 

Our link up with Erskine i liked, but this along with all the other stuff is just way OTT. Wish we would give it up apart from Celebrating our WW1 team and the associated Batallon -  and when i say celebrating i mean respectfully remembering them.

When the NHS staff can get their leg blown off or any of the multitude of things that could happen to our armed forces then we will show our support to them too..

 

I always respect our armed forces.. they are there to do a job.. it's not their fault that somewhere up the chain of command their is a prick in westminster sending them like lambs to the slaughter.. We're an island. Defend our own borders and let others deal with the rest of the world's problems.

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Thanks for sharing that. As regards my background I did work directly to a Major General for a number of years in a related field so have a flavour of what the army expects of its personnel.

Thanks for your reply above.

[Homme]

1 minute ago, RussAsia said:

When the NHS staff can get their leg blown off or any of the multitude of things that could happen to our armed forces then we will show our support to them too..

 

I always respect our armed forces.. they are there to do a job.. it's not their fault that somewhere up the chain of command their is a prick in westminster sending them like lambs to the slaughter.. We're an island. Defend our own borders and let others deal with the rest of the world's problems.

 

In the UK i would state categorically that NHS staff are far more at risk of danger than any armed force personnel you talk of.

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

Browsing through the responses on twitter to this, those in favour seem to consist largely of huns, Orangemen, racicts and the lowest common denominator of our support. No surprises there.

Check out the Hearts Facebook page responses, Darwin would be struggling to explain away these people.

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Guess what. With regards to Iraq. The first Gulf war. I and others were given the choice.

After my term of engagement I left the Royal Navy on the 16/04/90. The day before my 27th Birthday. At the time I was married and the father of a daughter who had just turned four.

June that year I Started work for IBM at their UK headquarters at North Harbour Portsmouth.

Three weeks after I started work there I got a letter from the Ministry of Defence asking me to comeback into the Navy for the duration of the first Gulf War as they were short of experienced personnel.

After much deliberation and discussion with my then wife. I politely refused their request. The main reason for saying no was because my wife was 7 months pregnant with our eldest son who was born in September 1990. Ironically on the 11/09/90. The MOD accepted my decision. If my wife had not been pregnant I would have said yes. As that is what I had spent the last eleven years of my life training for. My apprenticeship being the Falklands War.

I don't know your history or background but, I am going to take a guess that you have never served in the Army, Air Force or Navy. This next part might offend many who post on here. Many who have never served have an ignorance of what the British armed services do especially when not fighting a war and an ignorance of the men and women who do serve our have served.

I will make no apology for my service or for what I did during my service to anyone.

I will not criticise Heart of Midlothian for what they are doing this coming Sunday. I will applaud them.

By the same token I will not criticise anyone for taken the opposite view to me as, that is what living in a country where people have freedom of speech have the right to do. To my dying day I will always defend that right. Whether in or out of uniform.

Yes mate, top man

[SE16 3LN]

48 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

Browsing through the responses on twitter to this, those in favour seem to consist largely of huns, Orangemen, racicts and the lowest common denominator of our support. No surprises there.

I can confirm that The "lee Rigby won't be drumming anymore brigade, Isis are freedom fighters army and the British army are responsible for all terrorist deaths squad" are all against it. This is a fact i know without resorting to social media.

[Chuck Berry]

17 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I can confirm that The "lee Rigby won't be drumming anymore brigade, Isis are freedom fighters army and the British army are responsible for all terrorist deaths squad" are all against it. This is a fact i know without resorting to social media.

 

That right aye 

[Chuck Berry]

57 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Check out the Hearts Facebook page responses, Darwin would be struggling to explain away these people.

 

It's not unexpected to be honest.

[The Treasurer]

1 hour ago, RussAsia said:

When the NHS staff can get their leg blown off or any of the multitude of things that could happen to our armed forces then we will show our support to them too..

 

 

WTF ????

Someone doing a difficult job should only be shown respect if there's a chance they could be blown up ???

I've heard it all now

[Jodami]

I will obviously be at the game on Sunday but already I am dreading the fact that it will probably be unionjacktastic. I might be wrong of course but if it is it will definitely affect my "fan experience". Against the backdrop of an increase in sectarianism in our support an armed forces day is dubious. Our closet mini huns have clearly got a semi about this already and I can see this being a green light for more of the same shit fans who watch us away from home have to witness. Disheartened at the club if I'm honest. 

[SE16 3LN]

31 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

That right aye 

Yes it is AYEl