Juanjo15 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Scnorthedinburgh said: Pointing out they do a lot of good. Reading this you would think they spent their entire time in uniform rampaging like Attila throughout the world. My dad served and helped build, rebuild and improve facilities all over the world. Never shot another person, helped children learn, avoid illness, improved their life's. He was a jambo, you would have liked him, he would have said your view is wrong and blinkered. But that's up to you. You are very wrong and blinkered if you feel that anyone that objects to this doesn't appreciate that the Army does a lot of good all over the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Ribble said: See the second you get a time served builder to work building basic infrastructure in a warzone for 9 months at a time and be paid under 20k per year, we can have a builders day, ok? So this is a day of protest for better wages for armed forces? If we have an issue with how the army is deployed, and their salaries, then it becomes political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Is our freedom in danger, who from? People who think freedom came easil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Scnorthedinburgh said: No just your point hearts should be neutral The charity we have on our tops was caught up in some pretty naughty things recently. I just asked if your happy to turn a blind eye to the club giving it's approval through our link to the things some charity workers got up to? the points you're making are utterly ridiculous. So we shouldnt actively support a charity that helps millions because of a few individuals. If anything charities like save the children are neutral, they are there to help people in need no matter their race, religion or political persuasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, sandyk said: Apologies, worded badly. I didn't mean parade as in massed ranks, etc. I imagine there will be a few in uniform on the pitch during the signing. Personally, I love the idea of our club supporting this, perhaps a private function would have sufficed? Possibly, mate. I don't think it will be OTT. Edited July 25, 2018 by Boab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, August Landmesser said: We're a football club. Not a department of the Ministry of Defence. The army etc. already have plenty opportunities for parades and flag-waving on their own time. I appreciate and honour the WWI link with the club, and the bravery of the players who joined up, but that's a very specific relationship deriving from very specific and tragic circumstances. I surely am not the only one uncomfortable with using a football match to glorify the modern-day armed forces for no particular reason. But you have no problem with the armed forces giving their lives to protect your country then but cringe at thought of them being giving a bit of time with our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ribble said: See the second you get a time served builder to work building basic infrastructure in a warzone for 9 months at a time and be paid under 20k per year, we can have a builders day, ok? I guess every day is Builders' Day in Baghdad then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Scnorthedinburgh said: Pointing out they do a lot of good. Reading this you would think they spent their entire time in uniform rampaging like Attila throughout the world. My dad served and helped build, rebuild and improve facilities all over the world. Never shot another person, helped children learn, avoid illness, improved their life's. He was a jambo, you would have liked him, he would have said your view is wrong and blinkered. But that's up to you. At no point have I stated the Armed Forces rampage anywhere, don't attributed to me what others have said. My gripe, and fear, is that Tynecastle resembles the nonsense we see every year at Ibrox. I don't want my club associated with that sort of questionable "pageantry" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Wonder how the mutants over on leggostand.net are taking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, maroonlegions said: But you have no problem with the armed forces giving their lives to protect your country then but cringe at thought of them being giving a bit of time with our club. But, you see, I do have a problem with the armed forces giving their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said: So this is a day of protest for better wages for armed forces? If we have an issue with how the army is deployed, and their salaries, then it becomes political. Not at all, the wages are clear to see when someone signs up, doubt anyone joins up for the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, maroonlegions said: But you have no problem with the armed forces giving their lives to protect your country then but cringe at thought of them being giving a bit of time with our club. Why not do it on a non-match day then the people who want to go along to the recruitment set up and information stuff can happily go and show support and give a little bit of time? People on Sunday are going to watch a football match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 40 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said: Strong false equivalency game, bro. 10 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said: Spot imo. The army is just basically Barnardo's but with missiles. No comment on the context but these two posts made me laugh. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 This is very welcome news. Good on the club. Shame on you if you have an issue with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said: At no point have I stated the Armed Forces rampage anywhere, don't attributed to me what others have said. My gripe, and fear, is that Tynecastle resembles the nonsense we see every year at Ibrox. I don't want my club associated with that sort of questionable "pageantry" If it goes ahead you still be going on Sunday then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, magicTs said: And that’s the beauty of having the freedom to make your own choice. A freedom that our armed services help provide us all with! Wonderful to tip our caps and give them something back once in a while. I'm not disputing that mate. I just don't like our club allowing itself to be used for poitical means. If we are doing this for the forces we should be extending the same courtesy to other essential services. Perhaps we will ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, August Landmesser said: But, you see, I do have a problem with the armed forces giving their lives. What do you suggest they give then. ?? In defence of our country?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: At no point have I stated the Armed Forces rampage anywhere, don't attributed to me what others have said. My gripe, and fear, is that Tynecastle resembles the nonsense we see every year at Ibrox. I don't want my club associated with that sort of questionable "pageantry" Only absolute cretins link the British Armed Forces and Rangers. Complete bangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, August Landmesser said: We're a football club. Not a department of the Ministry of Defence. The army etc. already have plenty opportunities for parades and flag-waving on their own time. I appreciate and honour the WWI link with the club, and the bravery of the players who joined up, but that's a very specific relationship deriving from very specific and tragic circumstances. I surely am not the only one uncomfortable with using a football match to glorify the modern-day armed forces for no particular reason. We are a club that has always been closely associated with the armed forces. There's a clock at Haymarket as testament to that. The armed forces have every right as anyone else to recruit. No one is pressed ganged nowadays. We no lonfer have national service. Those that sign the dotted line do so of their on volition. You don't like it. Tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, luckydug said: I'm not disputing that mate. I just don't like our club allowing itself to be used for poitical means. If we are doing this for the forces we should be extending the same courtesy to other essential services. Perhaps we will ? Political means?? This is our football club showing respect to its countries brave men, nothing political in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, maroonlegions said: What do you suggest they give then. ?? In defence of our country?? I have a problem with anyone being asked to die or kill for their country - no matter what their country is. Why is the bit of dirt I was born on any more valuable than the bit of dirt anyone else was born on? Clarification: I was not literally born on a bit of dirt, I'm not a Hibby (despite, apparently being 'Celtic-minded'). Edited July 25, 2018 by August Landmesser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambopilms Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'm all for this, but we should have a NHS day a Fire day etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By the light Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Nookie Bear said: I read it, and it just seems like a lot of words with no actual commitment - but it makes the signatories look they are doing something. What are we as a club genuinely going to do for our armed forces by signing this? I would already expect us to employ ex-forces if they were the best candidate for the job, they are welcome to pay their money and take a seat at any time and we have good disabled facilities now. We would be better off having a collection for Erskine as that is at least a tangible way of helping. You are right in the fact that it’s a pledge so you can essentially choose to do nothing. For me it’s more in line with the living wage pledge. We’re saying that if someone comes for a job and they are in the reserves then we’re happy to provide extra holidays for them to go and do their training. Or that if a spouse of a member of the armed forces comes for a job, we won’t let the fact they may get posted elsewhere in 6 months cloud the judgement to take them on. Little things that can make a big difference to people in that community that are often overlooked. I had no idea that these things were even an issue. I guess that’s kind of the point of a highly visible organisation like ourselves backing and highlighting it. Personally I think that’s a good thing for the community as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, John Findlay said: We are a club that has always been closely associated with the armed forces. There's a clock at Haymarket as testament to that. The armed forces have every right as anyone else to recruit. No one is pressed ganged nowadays. We no lonfer have national service. Those that sign the dotted line do so of their on volition. You don't like it. Tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmore Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, BelgeJambo said: Might come as a bit of a shocker to some, but the NHS also supports the armed forces covenant Who decided the NHS should support this, a politician? If there is already an annual armed forces day, is there any need for the club to hold it's own? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: This kind of stuff is harsh guys. What if somebody was just genuinely a pacifist and objected to all armed forces and conflict? You can still be a pacifist and respectful. It’s sad we now live in a world that people expect Hearts to consult them on everything we do because they’re going to get a bit upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, August Landmesser said: I have a problem with anyone being asked to die or kill for their country - no matter what their country is. Why is the bit of dirt I was born on any more valuable than the bit of dirt anyone else was born on? Trying saying that to the people who are gunning down your country men and invading your home??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, maroonlegions said: Trying saying that to the people who are gunning down your country men and invading your home??? The people doing the gunning down are usually in someone's armed forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonexile Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, johnthomas said: Ah so if you don't agree with it you are anti-army ? Poppy fascism is alive and well Stinking of Celtic. Edited July 25, 2018 by maroonexile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, magicTs said: Not in the least similar!!! Clearly a terrible decision for numerous reasons. Not talking about the decision, just the comment about turning up late or keeping quiet if you don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocraig89 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 As a ex servicemen I feel this is a good thing that the club is doing. With our long history with our armed forces with Mcraes Battalion and now with the club being the official football club for HMS Queen Elizabeth its good to see that the club is recognizing this tradition. Understand its not every ones cup of tea especially now our armed forces are not in many combat roles that will make you feel proud. But do understand our armed forces do a lot of work in the back round that wont get much recognition like recently helping with fire services on saddle worth moors, helping communities when floods hit, protecting vital shipping lanes from piracy in the gulf of Aden with a lot of the cargo coming to the UK through that route, Helping hurricane hit communities in the Caribbean, helping communities that were hit by the tsunami in 2004 and helping with mountain and sea recuses across the country. Our armed forces are there doing a lot more than a 9-5 and are always on stand by for when the next dictator is ready to kick off. Its one day a year where we recognize those who have served, lost there lives, gave life and limb and are currently still protecting our interests and helping communities across the world. don't see why so many would get there backs up with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 My dad served with the army in WW2 and my brother in amongst other places Northern Ireland. However while I welcome us signing the armed forces covenant I am unhappy about the Armed Forces Day and associated stalls. I will be missing Sunday's game anyway as I am on holiday for the weekend but will be interested to see what form this day takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said: You are very wrong and blinkered if you feel that anyone that objects to this doesn't appreciate that the Army does a lot of good all over the world. They were child killers in an earlier post, no mention that they do any good. If erskine was ok to support so is this. It's the same people after all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, jambocraig89 said: As a ex servicemen I feel this is a good thing that the club is doing. With our long history with our armed forces with Mcraes Battalion and now with the club being the official football club for HMS Queen Elizabeth its good to see that the club is recognizing this tradition. Understand its not every ones cup of tea especially now our armed forces are not in many combat roles that will make you feel proud. But do understand our armed forces do a lot of work in the back round that wont get much recognition like recently helping with fire services on saddle worth moors, helping communities when floods hit, protecting vital shipping lanes from piracy in the gulf of Aden with a lot of the cargo coming to the UK through that route, Helping hurricane hit communities in the Caribbean, helping communities that were hit by the tsunami in 2004 and helping with mountain and sea recuses across the country. Our armed forces are there doing a lot more than a 9-5 and are always on stand by for when the next dictator is ready to kick off. Its one day a year where we recognize those who have served, lost there lives, gave life and limb and are currently still protecting our interests and helping communities across the world. don't see why so many would get there backs up with this. 100% This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: the points you're making are utterly ridiculous. So we shouldnt actively support a charity that helps millions because of a few individuals. If anything charities like save the children are neutral, they are there to help people in need no matter their race, religion or political persuasion. But that one was a bit tainted recently. If you bother about who the club associate with it should at least merit a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, jambocraig89 said: As a ex servicemen I feel this is a good thing that the club is doing. With our long history with our armed forces with Mcraes Battalion and now with the club being the official football club for HMS Queen Elizabeth its good to see that the club is recognizing this tradition. Understand its not every ones cup of tea especially now our armed forces are not in many combat roles that will make you feel proud. But do understand our armed forces do a lot of work in the back round that wont get much recognition like recently helping with fire services on saddle worth moors, helping communities when floods hit, protecting vital shipping lanes from piracy in the gulf of Aden with a lot of the cargo coming to the UK through that route, Helping hurricane hit communities in the Caribbean, helping communities that were hit by the tsunami in 2004 and helping with mountain and sea recuses across the country. Our armed forces are there doing a lot more than a 9-5 and are always on stand by for when the next dictator is ready to kick off. Its one day a year where we recognize those who have served, lost there lives, gave life and limb and are currently still protecting our interests and helping communities across the world. don't see why so many would get there backs up with this. Thanks for posting this. Should be a must read for everyone! Some people genuinely believe the armed forces are sitting twiddling their thumbs waiting for 'go go go' and your post highlights how ignorant that is. There is absolutely no question that our services deserve to be saluted as often as possible for the work they do. Its also greta for their families who sacrifice a lot to see that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthomas Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 14 minutes ago, maroonexile said: Stinking of Celtic. What is ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: At no point have I stated the Armed Forces rampage anywhere, don't attributed to me what others have said. My gripe, and fear, is that Tynecastle resembles the nonsense we see every year at Ibrox. I don't want my club associated with that sort of questionable "pageantry" Totally agree that would not help the club at all. But the support the are signing up to will help families. Wasn't referencing you directly, just the feelings of some against this who have already called them all child killers. No offence meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, John Findlay said: We are a club that has always been closely associated with the armed forces. There's a clock at Haymarket as testament to that. The armed forces have every right as anyone else to recruit. No one is pressed ganged nowadays. We no lonfer have national service. Those that sign the dotted line do so of their on volition. You don't like it. Tough. We're a club that has a historical link with WWI due to several footballers enlisting - that's not the same as being closely associated with the armed forces. I did not express myself particularly well in my OP or in several posts since; a few other posters have done a lot better job of articulating the issues than I did. However, I am uneasy with an 'Armed Forces Day', as I am (mostly) a pacifist, and I am also uneasy with such a day being imposed upon people who just want to have a nice day at the football. The armed forces covenant is a different issue - I think it is a worthy idea, and the majority of folk who sign up for it do so for good intentions, but it is also a way for the government to wash its hands of responsibility for ex-servicepeople that have suffered as a direct result of the government's decisions and interventions (how many of the homeless are ex-servicemen? How many suicides? Where's the glory in that?). I'm sorry if I've upset or pissed off any ex (or current) service personnel on here, who do what they do for many reasons and have lived tougher lives than many of us, but I hope you can understand my (and others') unease with the whole shindig. However, I'm not sorry if I've upset or pissed off anyone who uses the term 'Celtic-minded' and means it. Those lot can GTF. I'll probably be at the game on Sunday, but I might turn up a bit late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester copperpot Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I am genuinely gobsmacked at some of the responses on here. Let me just nail my flag to the mast before I explain myself. I am Catholic. I hate war, but I absolutely love the armed forces in what they do for our country. They go to countries based on our shite government, but do so despite their loyalties. We had an almost full team die for the right to defend our country. My son is considering a career in the armed forces and if he decides, he will go with me wishing every day he comes home, but also an immense sense of pride in the fact he chose to defend his country. Soldiers do not influence politics, they follow out the instructions of the government. Anything our club does to help them, then I am good with that. Oh did I also say I am an SNP voter. We still need soldiers, regardless of your political stance. Apologies but some threads really boil my piss. The last I will comment on this as I hate politics and hate stuff like this being demeaned by Hearts 'fans' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonexile Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, johnthomas said: What is ? The term you used. You know the one. Heard it a few times, and never by someone who wasn’t one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 43 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Is our freedom in danger, who from? It's the classic argument isn't it. The armed forces fought to give us freedom but folk get really upset when folk use that same freedom to disagree with something that involves the armed forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Traffic Wardens day next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, August Landmesser said: The people doing the gunning down are usually in someone's armed forces. Taliban and Al Qeada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: Traffic Wardens day next Nope got to draw the line somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Maybe Prostitutes Day would be good Another group down on their luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) A bit like if they had a churchy day for the god botherers I personally couldn't care and will not be engaging with it in any way. Would also add that the first one of their principles should surely apply to anybody. No member of the Armed Forces Community should face disadvantage in the provision of public and commercial services compared to any other citizen Edited July 25, 2018 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Last time I noticed Army were defeated in Basra and Helmand Associating with losers is never good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthomas Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, maroonexile said: The term you used. You know the one. Heard it a few times, and never by someone who wasn’t one of them. Poppy fascism is a common term used on the UK news , reputable newspapers etc . Never knew Naga Munchetty supported Celtic ! Anybody bringing 'Celtic' into this argument logically infers they have a certain agenda . I will do my best not to draw the obvious conclusion , I got sworn at the last time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Whatever your opinion, WTF has religion got to do with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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