BelgeJambo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, By the light said: The company I work for signed up to the Armed Forces covenant which is more about helping past and current serving members and their families integrate in to the community. It’s about creating opportunities for them, their spouses and their kids. It’s about helping the spouses of service people find work and create social circles which can be difficult if you have to relocate every 2 years with new postings. It’s very much something Hearts as a community club should be supporting in my opinion. Unfortunately, people automatically jump to the conclusion that it’s a big pro union, flag waving sash bash and is yet another worthy cause tainted due to the brain dead arseholes associated to the scum bag clubs from through the west. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 If a subject divides the support so much Hearts should be no where near it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strachsuit Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, August Landmesser said: 'Celtic-minded' Nice euphemism there. Subtle. Classy. It's not a euphemism whatsoever. Yet again you're letting your own political bigotry get the better of you! Celtic-minded, persistently-offended, anti-establishment, pro-IRA, anti-Armed Forces viewpoints. The viewpoints of the vast majority of the Celtic support. Does that clarify things for you? Deary me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Strachsuit said: You do realise we aren't. We are having our own armed forces appreciation day on Sunday. It's to signal the signing of the covenant. It's got nothing to do with the national Armed Forces Day, which was in June. Either way, we shouldn't have anything to do with the Armed forces outside of remembrance day, or allow our club to be used as a platform for recruitment or support a covenant or any other bollocks. We should solely be focused as a football club on football and we should continue our neutrality towards a range of different subjects, whether that be the Armed forces, religion, politics and not seek to actively promote these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: My issue is that it will be jumped on by some people to behave like that , and that is what it will be remembered for. And, as a club we are clearly bothered by our public perception, this seems a strange risk to take. So that’s reason not to do it. Lol. Jesus wept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Strachsuit said: This isn't what's happening. Have you even read the article? Or are you too busy being offended by nothing? The day will comprise of the signing of the Armed Forces Covenant and the Club will welcome guests from all three Services to Tynecastle Park. The three Services will also have a number of displays on the Foundation Plaza and supporters are encouraged to stop for a chat and to find out more about the role of our Armed Forces. Which is to be an annual event too. Tell me how that isn't giving support for the troops at the ground on Sunday? Edited July 25, 2018 by Juanjo15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strachsuit Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, By the light said: The company I work for signed up to the Armed Forces covenant which is more about helping past and current serving members and their families integrate in to the community. It’s about creating opportunities for them, their spouses and their kids. It’s about helping the spouses of service people find work and create social circles which can be difficult if you have to relocate every 2 years with new postings. It’s very much something Hearts as a community club should be supporting in my opinion. Unfortunately, people automatically jump to the conclusion that it’s a big pro union, flag waving sash bash and is yet another worthy cause tainted due to the brain dead arseholes associated to the scum bag clubs from through the west. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Sarah O said: If a subject divides the support so much Hearts should be no where near it. We still have Craig Levein as manager.....so your argument kinda falls flat on its face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 This no differnt to when we supported erskine . They look after all servicemen didn't see much complaining then? This extends to family members, it's a good fit for some of the things big hearts do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Juanjo15 said: The day will comprise of the signing of the Armed Forces Covenant and the Club will welcome guests from all three Services to Tynecastle Park. The three Services will also have a number of displays on the Foundation Plaza and supporters are encouraged to stop for a chat and to find out more about the role of our Armed Forces. Recruitment tents. Get this to ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, magicTs said: So that’s reason not to do it. Lol. Jesus wept. Not my problem, i don;t give a shit about our public perception as long as we win matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Strachsuit said: It's not a euphemism whatsoever. Yet again you're letting your own political bigotry get the better of you! Celtic-minded, persistently-offended, anti-establishment, pro-IRA, anti-Armed Forces viewpoints. The viewpoints of the vast majority of the Celtic support. Does that clarify things for you? Deary me. It's possible to be all, one, some or none of those things, and still be opposed to an Armed Forces Day at a football match. Also, it's 'your'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, Strachsuit said: Isn't it? It's basically what people have been saying on here. That supporting the troops by signing the covenant is supporting wars in Iraq! I didn’t say that though. Sign the covenant by all means, I’d expect everyone to act in this way anyway whether they sign something or not, but why the need for an “Armed Forces Day” and all the baggage that brings? Absolutely no need for it. I’ll look forward to the Emergency Services Day, people who actually lay their lives on the line and save lives every minute of the day. They deserve our appreciation equally if not more so, where do you draw the line? As it stands, I’m not sure who is threatening Scotland to the extent that we need to honour these brave defenders of the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Cruyff Turn said: Recruitment tents. Get this to ****. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, magicTs said: Its got nothing to do with a game of football. It’s not impacting the game in any way, shape or form. It is Hearts saying thank you to those who work in our armed services. Nothing more nothing less. If you don’t like it you can arrive after it’s over or simply stay silent. Not difficult for a normal human being! The exact same could have been written about the minute silence for the Pope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, August Landmesser said: It's possible to be all, one, some or none of those things, and still be opposed to an Armed Forces Day at a football match. Also, it's 'your'... No, unfortunately for some if you object to this you are of course Celtic minded. I wonder where I've heard that before? Ayr perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Juanjo15 said: No, unfortunately for some if you object to this you are of course Celtic minded. I wonder where I've heard that before? Ayr perhaps? That must have been it. Or maybe from rogue Chelsea fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: Either way, we shouldn't have anything to do with the Armed forces outside of remembrance day, or allow our club to be used as a platform for recruitment or support a covenant or any other bollocks. We should solely be focused as a football club on football and we should continue our neutrality towards a range of different subjects, whether that be the Armed forces, religion, politics and not seek to actively promote these things. You miss the big charity thing on our strips, not realy neutral. Consider the scandals the charity has recently had, could argue we should have ditched them and went to another charity. Didnt see that debated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 53 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: You can have an issue with something without being offended by it. Well said. It's in vogue now to dismiss someone else's opinion by claiming they are easily offended. As soon as you see the phrases snowflake or pantwetter just scroll past as the post will contain nothing of substance. 34 minutes ago, XB52 said: Posts like this show why we shouldn't be involved. One upmanship Again well said. Utterly atrocious thing to score points over. As bad as those cretins over the road that go on about us "winning the war". I don't know how I feel about it but the best point on the thread for me is why only armed forces. Where are the NHS days? Not just football but in general. If you think Armed Forces days are completely void of politics then you're fooling yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strachsuit Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, August Landmesser said: It's possible to be all, one, some or none of those things, and still be opposed to an Armed Forces Day at a football match.Also, it's 'your'... Eh, no, it's not. "You're" = you are. You tried to pull me up on a grammatical error and failed spectacularly. Much like most of your performance on this thread tbh. Enjoy the rest of your day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, magicTs said: Its got nothing to do with a game of football. It’s not impacting the game in any way, shape or form. It is Hearts saying thank you to those who work in our armed services. Nothing more nothing less. If you don’t like it you can arrive after it’s over or simply stay silent. Not difficult for a normal human being! Arrive after it is over would be my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, XB52 said: The exact same could have been written about the minute silence for the Pope. Not in the least similar!!! Clearly a terrible decision for numerous reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, August Landmesser said: It's still glorifying death and slaughter though. Whether that's at sea, in the air or on land... yes, that's all the armed forces do, death and slaughter, death and slaughter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Strachsuit said: Eh, no, it's not. "You're" = you are. You tried to pull me up on a grammatical error and failed spectacularly. Much like most of your performance on this thread tbh. Enjoy the rest of your day. :facepalm: What a riddy tbf. That's it, I'm off to Scruffy Murphy's to stroke me shillelagh and drink Jameson's whilst wiping my arse on the Establishment. Edited July 25, 2018 by August Landmesser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, jambopilms said: That's statement says it all and sumsyou up. the club are standing by the forces covenant that many businesses do throughout the country. It's to support injured and bereaved men and women who will be there when the country needs them. Country is full of fickle people who speak out against their own mate. They forget how their life they currently lead has been provided. But everyone feels they deserve to have their own agenda to feel important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: I didn’t say that though. Sign the covenant by all means, I’d expect everyone to act in this way anyway whether they sign something or not, but why the need for an “Armed Forces Day” and all the baggage that brings? Absolutely no need for it. I’ll look forward to the Emergency Services Day, people who actually lay their lives on the line and save lives every minute of the day. They deserve our appreciation equally if not more so, where do you draw the line? As it stands, I’m not sure who is threatening Scotland to the extent that we need to honour these brave defenders of the nation. Last Scottish regiment to be deployed was sent to help the firemen in Yorkshire. That ok with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, By the light said: The company I work for signed up to the Armed Forces covenant which is more about helping past and current serving members and their families integrate in to the community. It’s about creating opportunities for them, their spouses and their kids. It’s about helping the spouses of service people find work and create social circles which can be difficult if you have to relocate every 2 years with new postings. It’s very much something Hearts as a community club should be supporting in my opinion. Unfortunately, people automatically jump to the conclusion that it’s a big pro union, flag waving sash bash and is yet another worthy cause tainted due to the brain dead arseholes associated to the scum bag clubs from through the west. This. Sevco turn it into a UJ waving day so Celtic have a perfect excuse to turn their faces against it (that and the role of the "Brits" in their troubles). I think it's a great idea. It recognises the day to day sacrifices peoples of all the services make throughout their military service and the challenges they face when they try to integrate into a society that often seems overwhelming to many. The Yanks do it well simply by saying "thank you for your service". It doesn't mean you have to agree with govt policy - just acknowledge what they've given in the service of their country. Well done Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Ribble said: yes, that's all the armed forces do, death and slaughter, death and slaughter To be fair it’s what they are mainly trained to do. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Ribble said: yes, that's all the armed forces do, death and slaughter, death and slaughter Well, if they didn't , then they'd just be the fire brigade or the coastguard or some builders tbf. Can we have a Builders' Day please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, luckydug said: Arrive after it is over would be my choice. And that’s the beauty of having the freedom to make your own choice. A freedom that our armed services help provide us all with! Wonderful to tip our caps and give them something back once in a while. Edited July 25, 2018 by magicTs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Scnorthedinburgh said: You miss the big charity thing on our strips, not realy neutral. Consider the scandals the charity has recently had, could argue we should have ditched them and went to another charity. Didnt see that debated? Are you really comparing supporting a charity that helps children across the world to supporting the Armed forces? Are you for real ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strachsuit Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: I didn’t say that though. Sign the covenant by all means, I’d expect everyone to act in this way anyway whether they sign something or not, but why the need for an “Armed Forces Day” and all the baggage that brings? Absolutely no need for it. I’ll look forward to the Emergency Services Day, people who actually lay their lives on the line and save lives every minute of the day. They deserve our appreciation equally if not more so, where do you draw the line? As it stands, I’m not sure who is threatening Scotland to the extent that we need to honour these brave defenders of the nation. Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion on the day. However I think most people will be quite pleasantly surprised when they see that it's not the flag-waving triumphalism that goes on at Ibrox. I suspect it will be a couple of vans on the plaza and a small ceremony pre-match to sign the covenant and welcome the guests. FWIW re: emergency services, my brother is a firefighter and I agree that they and those that work in the NHS deserve as much appreciation. I certainly wouldn't be against a day or an initiative supporting them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Scnorthedinburgh said: Last Scottish regiment to be deployed was sent to help the firemen in Yorkshire. That ok with you? What has that got to do with what is being discussed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By the light Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: Either way, we shouldn't have anything to do with the Armed forces outside of remembrance day, or allow our club to be used as a platform for recruitment or support a covenant or any other bollocks. We should solely be focused as a football club on football and we should continue our neutrality towards a range of different subjects, whether that be the Armed forces, religion, politics and not seek to actively promote these things. Im assuming you disagree with Big Hearts and the club collecting for food banks etc? Or Hearts supporting any other charity or community initiative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, magicTs said: Mans that’s the beauty of having the freedom to make your own choice. A freedom that our armed services help provide us all with! Wonderful to tip out caps and give them something back once in a while. Is our freedom in danger, who from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, By the light said: Im assuming you disagree with Big Hearts and the club collecting for food banks etc? Or Hearts supporting any other charity or community initiative? Supporting Charities and supporting the Armed Forces aren't the same thing, not even close. Edited July 25, 2018 by Cruyff Turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, magicTs said: We still have Craig Levein as manager.....so your argument kinda falls flat on its face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said: Are you really comparing supporting a charity that helps children across the world to supporting the Armed forces? Are you for real ? No just your point hearts should be neutral The charity we have on our tops was caught up in some pretty naughty things recently. I just asked if your happy to turn a blind eye to the club giving it's approval through our link to the things some charity workers got up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, By the light said: Im assuming you disagree with Big Hearts and the club collecting for food banks etc? Or Hearts supporting any other charity or community initiative? I'm assuming that you know the differences with them and having the Armed Forces out and about Tynie on match day supporting and honoring them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Is our freedom in danger, who from? They radges at Glasgow Airport. We never got our Smeato appreciation day though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macros Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 There are no true winners in war, everyone loses one way or another, much the same as in this case. There are plenty fully justifiable reasons for our club to become involved in Armed Forces day and plenty of reasons not to. Many of those against becoming involved cite modern day conflict as having more to do with control of oil production and politicians being at the behest of multi-nationals and financiers than overturning despotic regimes or helping our fellow man, yet we cite the involvement of Hearts players and fans in the formation of 16th Battalion Royal Scots in 1914, McCrae's, as a focal point in the history of our club. The First World War was as much to do with maintenance of multi-national power and imperialism as any of today's conflicts. Personally I regard Armed Forces Day as a cynical, politically driven event created to deflect efforts to highlight the illegality of some of our most recent conflicts and is abused by the politicians and most main stream media to put pressure on people to show support for armed forces personnel when in actual fact the vast majority of them, the politicians especially, don't give a toss about the 'lower ranks', especially after they have left service. As for the Armed Forces Covenant, this is separate from Armed Forces Day. I am not ex-service however I, like most on this forum, have family and friends who were or are in the Armed Forces. To many of these people all they were/are doing was and is a job. The decision to become involved in particular conflicts isn't put to the vote in the forces, in the past if they raised any doubt regarding what they were being ordered to do they faced death after a court-martial. I don't have any issue with supporting serving and ex-serving military and if my club wish to become signatories to this then I will happily support them on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Parmesan Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, By the light said: Im assuming you disagree with Big Hearts and the club collecting for food banks etc? Or Hearts supporting any other charity or community initiative? Spot imo. The army is just basically Barnardo's but with missiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By the light Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, Cruyff Turn said: Supporting Charities supporting the Armed Forces aren't the same thing, not even close. https://www.armedforcescovenant.gov.uk/get-involved/sign-the-covenant/ See my earlier post about what the covenant actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scnorthedinburgh Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: What has that got to do with what is being discussed? Pointing out they do a lot of good. Reading this you would think they spent their entire time in uniform rampaging like Attila throughout the world. My dad served and helped build, rebuild and improve facilities all over the world. Never shot another person, helped children learn, avoid illness, improved their life's. He was a jambo, you would have liked him, he would have said your view is wrong and blinkered. But that's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said: Spot imo. The army is just basically Barnardo's but with missiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: Supporting Charities and supporting the Armed Forces aren't the same thing, not even close. Aye but if we support homeless charities that suggests we support people’s with addiction issues like junkies as they are homeless. Hearts funding drug habits. Thats the game? Its better to stay clear of these things for a number of reasons. Doesn’t mean you don’t support the forces in any sense but gives a lot of ammunition (excuse the pun) to those types who will claim otherwise and get all upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madjambo21 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 No problem with this at all. Had friends and family in the military so fair play to hearts for doing this. Dont understand the hate for the idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, August Landmesser said: Well, if they didn't , then they'd just be the fire brigade or the coastguard or some builders tbf. Can we have a Builders' Day please? See the second you get a time served builder to work building basic infrastructure in a warzone for 9 months at a time and be paid under 20k per year, we can have a builders day, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Don't see what big deal is, its mixes up the occasion and can add to the atmosphere. As an army brat I'm maybe biased but the people that serve don't exactly have a choice in where they are posted and are doing it for the love of their country . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, By the light said: https://www.armedforcescovenant.gov.uk/get-involved/sign-the-covenant/ See my earlier post about what the covenant actually is. I read it, and it just seems like a lot of words with no actual commitment - but it makes the signatories look they are doing something. What are we as a club genuinely going to do for our armed forces by signing this? I would already expect us to employ ex-forces if they were the best candidate for the job, they are welcome to pay their money and take a seat at any time and we have good disabled facilities now. We would be better off having a collection for Erskine as that is at least a tangible way of helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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