Hearts fielded ineligible player against Cove Rangers

[ramrod]

9 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

 

Where in the part of my post where I said it wasn’t deliberate that made it sounds like it’s deliberate.  Is part of the hearing panel judgement if it’s deliberate or not?  I don’t think it matters - rules got broken and if it’s a fine instead of an expulsion it leaves the rules open to bend with teams playing unregistered or banned players in the future claiming they forgot. We genuinely did forget but try and prove another club doesn’t. 

Regardless of what you or any other sensationalist thinks the panel will decide every case on its merit . 

I know you probably wont like it but I can see us getting a fine and  no points deduction. 

The more I read into it it's clear it was a technicality and quite an exceptional case . We'll see I guess but any talk of expulsion is quite frankly laughable. 

[Deevers]

14 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

 

Where in the part of my post where I said it wasn’t deliberate that made it sounds like it’s deliberate.  Is part of the hearing panel judgement if it’s deliberate or not?  I don’t think it matters - rules got broken and if it’s a fine instead of an expulsion it leaves the rules open to bend with teams playing unregistered or banned players in the future claiming they forgot. We genuinely did forget but try and prove another club doesn’t. 

Exactly so. However to me for anyone to do this as a deliberate act just doesn't make any sense. Just wondered if you were part of the cadre on here that wants to see us hit with the worst possible sanction.

[Hearts_fan]

20 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

 

We did gain a sporting advantage though. We played a player that our manager wanted to that we were not allowed to.

 

If the shoe was in the other foot i would be arguing we had been cheated. I don't think breaking the laws of the game albeit unintentionally can be called anything other than cheating.

 

This mindset is utterly absurd! 

 

No sporting advantage was gained by a months-old office mistake.

 

But yes, why let an opportunity to stick the knife into your own club pass you by!?

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Hearts_fan

[Rudy T]

7 minutes ago, been here before said:

Ahhh hold on a minute. Everyones favourite creepy obsessive loner has another way of looking at it.

 

greenginger 08:48 AM Today 

Maybe fielding the ineligible player was all a cunning Baldrick type plan toget kicked out of the tournament because the new pitch ain’t ready or someone from the council has said they need an occupation certificate before they can open the place for the new season.

Embarrassing themselves to save embarrassment! 

 

Perhaps he's right. If so, well played Mrs B

 

This sad twat needs help...serious feckin looney. I suspect he's lurking on this thread.

[Taffin]

Just now, Hearts_fan said:

 

This mindset is utterly absurd! 

 

No sporting advantage was gained by months-old office mistake.

 

But yes, why let an opportunity to stick the knife into your own club pass you by!?

 

 

 

ZzzzZzzZzzZzzzZzzzz

 

Been through this already and I didn't stick the knife in anywhere.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

This mindset is utterly absurd! 

 

No sporting advantage was gained by months-old office mistake.

 

But yes, why let an opportunity to stick the knife into your own club pass you by!?

 

 

How do you know that no sporting advantage was gained?

 

Irving may have been difference between a  2-1 win and a 2-2 draw. 

[Don Dan]

Leviens no idea of the outcome either. However he’s using it as a motivational tool. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

If they dock us points or kick us out then I hope we enquire about getting the points back from all the games against Rangers when they fielded improperly registered players. Oh, and the prize money we may have missed out on if said points move us up the table. Not to mention compensation if we missed out on any possible European campaigns. 

[luckyBatistuta]

14 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

Precisely, I wouldn't be bothered. If it was a genuine administrative error, such as ours, and there was absolutely no sporting advantage to be gained, such as with ours, then any reasonable minded person would conclude that the match result was unaffected by an error made by someone sitting at a computer in an office, months previously. 

 

It's depressing to see Hearts fans stick the knife into Hearts, believing things such as 'heads must roll for this', which I'm pretty sure I read earlier in the thread. 

 

Who needs enemies when you have friends like that? 

 

It was a mistake. We did not act maliciously or deceitfully. 

 

 

I think plenty would have something to say, even though it was a genuine mistake. It doesn’t matter though about whether it was a mistake or whether it affected the result, you can’t do it. You have to follow the rules and if you don’t (by mistake or not) accept your punishment.

[Hearts_fan]

4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

How do you know that no sporting advantage was gained?

 

Irving may have been difference between a  2-1 win and a 2-2 draw. 

 

I feel I can say "I know" that no sporting advantage was gained because that's a rational conclusion to draw from the evidence, which tells us that Irving would have been playing in that match whether the admin error had been made or not. 

[feedthefox]

It will be a 3 point deduction and a fine. SPFL will concede it is an unusual situation that the player was already a Hearts player and it will be noted that Hearts immediately recognised their unfortunate and innocent mistake however due to presidence they have no choice. 

 

On a positive note two wins and Tynie will be bouncing for the ICT match.

 

 

[Bull's-eye]

10 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

This sad twat needs help...serious feckin looney. I suspect he's lurking on this thread.

 

He's not to far removed from some of the loonies on here night and day.

[Juanjo15]

14 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Exactly so. However to me for anyone to do this as a deliberate act just doesn't make any sense. Just wondered if you were part of the cadre on here that wants to see us hit with the worst possible sanction.

 

No, of course not.  I think it will be fair to forfeit the match that’s the worst we can be hit with and it sets a precedent for the future. 

[Deevers]

13 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

This sad twat needs help...serious feckin looney. I suspect he's lurking on this thread.

There are certainly one or two on here that let their mask slip pretty frequently that would fit the profile.

[Hearts_fan]

2 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

I think plenty would have something to say, even though it was a genuine mistake. It doesn’t matter though about whether it was a mistake or whether it affected the result, you can’t do it. You have to follow the rules and if you don’t (by mistake or not) accept your punishment.

 

I agree that there should be some penalty for Hearts to pay – administrative rules such as player registrations clearly enrich the game with a rightful sense of credibility. But this was a non-footballing mistake that resulted in zero sporting advantage – the player would have been playing whether he was properly registered or not. The result was emphatically not affected. 

 

I'm only posting here because I hear Hearts fans of all people saying Hearts should be dragged over hot coals for this, which is just weird. What happened to loyalty!

[Juanjo15]

18 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Regardless of what you or any other sensationalist thinks the panel will decide every case on its merit . 

I know you probably wont like it but I can see us getting a fine and  no points deduction. 

The more I read into it it's clear it was a technicality and quite an exceptional case . We'll see I guess but any talk of expulsion is quite frankly laughable. 

 

Sensationalist? For stating the rules should be the same for everyone although done in faith? No bother.  Who said expulsion ever? I’ve given loads of reasons why that won’t happen.  As for not liking a fine? That would be great news but I can’t see it happening.

[Juanjo15]

32 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Each case should be judged on its individual circumstances.

 

They have to make it clear then if that is the case.  

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

If I ran Hearts I would use Rangers cheating as an example and refuse any sanction. Call me crazy but that's the only way to stop the preferential treatment certain clubs receive.

[Bazzas right boot]

30 minutes ago, been here before said:

Ahhh hold on a minute. Everyones favourite creepy obsessive loner has another way of looking at it.

 

greenginger 08:48 AM Today 

Maybe fielding the ineligible player was all a cunning Baldrick type plan toget kicked out of the tournament because the new pitch ain’t ready or someone from the council has said they need an occupation certificate before they can open the place for the new season.

Embarrassing themselves to save embarrassment! 

 

Perhaps he's right. If so, well played Mrs B

 

 

Maybe this chicken nugget works for us and has been causing the chaos. 

 

 

[heartmussel]

24 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Regardless of what you or any other sensationalist thinks the panel will decide every case on its merit . 

I know you probably wont like it but I can see us getting a fine and  no points deduction. 

The more I read into it it's clear it was a technicality and quite an exceptional case . We'll see I guess but any talk of expulsion is quite frankly laughable. 

Mulling over this for a while now,and I tend to agree with you.Probably been at Tynecastle longer than majority of team on Wednesday.

[eyesandears]

8 hours ago, It should have been ten said:

 

Right own up, it was you eh? ?

 .....they did ask me to take over but I would'nt give up my job as chief masseur at the Playboy Mansions

[Maroon 1874]

41 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Regardless of what you or any other sensationalist thinks the panel will decide every case on its merit . 

I know you probably wont like it but I can see us getting a fine and  no points deduction. 

The more I read into it it's clear it was a technicality and quite an exceptional case . We'll see I guess but any talk of expulsion is quite frankly laughable. 

 

This needed bumped

[Sergio]

My take on it is we will get a fine a bigger one that has been given out before,because I see no difference to playing a ineligible player to having a ineligible player on the bench as the referee can give anyone a red card on the bench so it's much the same we won't be thrown out the cup we might loss the 3 points but I doubt it only my view got my hard hat on

[heartyhub]

Can we just issue him with a side letter and all will be ok.

[chester copperpot]

I can't see anything other than a hammering for us tbh.

 

A fine and the SPFL will be taking their time to make the correct decision.

 

Just fining us will be a disadvantage to Cove. Whether you like it or not, fielding an ineligible player is deemed as putting us at an advantage, and if it was say, Celtic doing it to us I would be going tonto. 

 

We won't be chucked out as that would have happened today, but I think the punishment will wholly depend on the round of results tomorrow.

 

Cove won't qualify and to suggest so is ludicrous. A hearts punishment suits all teams involved in the group so I am still thinking a 3-0 victory to them once they are beaten and out of it tmrw.

 

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

If he signed a contract extension in January his pay will probably have increased. A copy of his signed contract along with bank statements to show the payments altered  the next month should be enough to prove he extended his contract. That leaves only the small matter of forgetting to upload the new details onto the sfa registration site. It's hardly the crime of the century. Amateurish? Aye but in no way cheating. 

[Harry Potter]

30 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

If I ran Hearts I would use Rangers cheating as an example and refuse any sanction. Call me crazy but that's the only way to stop the preferential treatment certain clubs receive.

Great idea but tbh i doubt it would work.

[Juanjo15]

3 minutes ago, chester copperpot said:

I can't see anything other than a hammering for us tbh.

 

A fine and the SPFL will be taking their time to make the correct decision.

 

Just fining us will be a disadvantage to Cove. Whether you like it or not, fielding an ineligible player is deemed as putting us at an advantage, and if it was say, Celtic doing it to us I would be going tonto. 

 

We won't be chucked out as that would have happened today, but I think the punishment will wholly depend on the round of results tomorrow.

 

Cove won't qualify and to suggest so is ludicrous. A hearts punishment suits all teams involved in the group so I am still thinking a 3-0 victory to them once they are beaten and out of it tmrw.

 

 

 

Killing the club etc etc put the knife away.   But spot on. 

[SUTOL]

I wonder if a possible sanction is a reasonably hefty fine, £10,000 or so plus points deduction, but the actual result of the match still stands. 

We just get 3 or 4 points deducted from our total at the end of the group stage. 

 

[Jambof3tornado]

Is the online bit that we failed to do a belt and braces exercise if we have to submit paperwork too?

 

What does the SFA do if we have to update the online part ourselves anyway?

 

Time for Levein to take them to task.

 

 

Only kidding. We lose the 3 points and a 5k fine. 

[luckydug]

51 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

ZzzzZzzZzzZzzzZzzzz

 

Been through this already and I didn't stick the knife in anywhere.

You are generally one of the more glass half empty types though.

So no surprise you think we cheated.

[MacDonald Jardine]

3 minutes ago, luckydug said:

You are generally one of the more glass half empty types though.

So no surprise you think we cheated.

Nobody's saying we cheated, just that the rules have to be adhered to.

I wouldn't advocate we get hammered for this.

I would empty whoever caused it though.

[cocomac]

Surely the sanction will have to be a fine as people will spend good money tomorrow to watch a competitive game. If the SPFL were to kick Heart's out after the match tomorrow then the fans who paid to watch that match have been conned and the SPFL will have allowed that to happen. Tickets purchased for other matches will also have to be refunded. 

[ri Alban]

We should top the group whether we are deducted points or not. No problem. 

We all make mistakes. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by ri Alban

[RickDeckard]

We broke the rules and should be punished for that accordingly, however claiming it was cheating is wide of the mark. Cheating by definition is attempting to gain an advantage through breaking the rules or being dishonest - I think it's agreed Hearts did not realise Irving was ineligible and played him despite knowing this in order to gain an advantage in the game. We've been paying the wages for this player the entire time - what advantage would there be in not having him registered to play?

[NaturalOrder74]

When is a decision made on this ? Surely it’s a bit unfair having to continue to play games in this diddy cup unsure of what’s actually happening 

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I’ll guarantee green ginger was one of the dozen hibs fans still in Hampden at 4.45pm on 19th May. 

 

Crying into his scarf, flag snapped in half, staring at the maroon masses in front of him and utterly utterly seething. 

 

[Juanjo15]

14 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

Nobody's saying we cheated, just that the rules have to be adhered to.

I wouldn't advocate we get hammered for this.

I would empty whoever caused it though.

 

Theres literally nobody that’s said the club cheated.  There’s also nobody saying the club should get chucked out.  Nobody.  

[Taffin]

28 minutes ago, luckydug said:

You are generally one of the more glass half empty types though.

So no surprise you think we cheated.

 

This is true, however I explained my thoughts then held my hands up and said I was wrong but still felt we should be punished though I hoped we wouldn't be. So why it is not being brought up 10 pages later? I don't know. It's boring.

[Taffin]

10 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

 

Theres literally nobody that’s said the club cheated.  There’s also nobody saying the club should get chucked out.  Nobody.  

 

I did. But I meant it more from a Cove point of view. 'We were cheated' type of thing however I worded it awfully.

[Juanjo15]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I did. But I meant it more from a Cove point of view. 'We were cheated' type of thing however I worded it awfully.

 

Yeah I meant you personally though.

 

I don’t think they would think we cheated either but they could use it to their advantage as they have every right to do.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

Precisely, I wouldn't be bothered. If it was a genuine administrative error, such as ours, and there was absolutely no sporting advantage to be gained, such as with ours, then any reasonable minded person would conclude that the match result was unaffected by an error made by someone sitting at a computer in an office, months previously. 

 

It's depressing to see Hearts fans stick the knife into Hearts, believing things such as 'heads must roll for this', which I'm pretty sure I read earlier in the thread. 

 

Who needs enemies when you have friends like that? 

 

It was a mistake. We did not act maliciously or deceitfully. 

 

Heads should roll . We may get thrown out of the cup and more importantly lost revenue. 

[luckyBatistuta]

26 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

Nobody's saying we cheated, just that the rules have to be adhered to.

I wouldn't advocate we get hammered for this.

I would empty whoever caused it though.

 

I always think folk are too quick to jump in with the pitchforks when an honest mistake is made by someone. If you were to look at this from another angle...say it was your wife who had made this mistake and she had been in the job for years, without making any prior errors, would you honestly be telling her she should be sacked?

[davemclaren]

Hopefully it will help drive the team on to win convincingly tomorrow, regardless. 

[chester copperpot]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Hopefully it will help drive the team on to win convincingly tomorrow, regardless. 

This Dave. In spades.

 

Massive drive and try and win by as many as possible please Hearts.

 

I actually think we will spank them tmrw. 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I’ll guarantee green ginger was one of the dozen hibs fans still in Hampden at 4.45pm on 19th May. 

 

Crying into his scarf, flag snapped in half, staring at the maroon masses in front of him and utterly utterly seething. 

Convincing himself that it was Hibs who had just won 5-1

[chester copperpot]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Convincing himself that it was Hibs who had just won 5-1

Na. He was trying to fire into his sister round the back of the South stand NAP!

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

I always think folk are too quick to jump in with the pitchforks when an honest mistake is made by someone. If you were to look at this from another angle...say it was your wife who had made this mistake and she had been in the job for years, without making any prior errors, would you honestly be telling her she should be sacked?

 

I think it’s easy to say “sack them” on here but I bet it would be different if anyone actually spoke face to face with the person responsible. 

[John Findlay]

2 minutes ago, chester copperpot said:

Na. He was trying to fire into his sister round the back of the South stand NAP!

He was fifth in the queue.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

I always think folk are too quick to jump in with the pitchforks when an honest mistake is made by someone. If you were to look at this from another angle...say it was your wife who had made this mistake and she had been in the job for years, without making any prior errors, would you honestly be telling her she should be sacked?

I think if the person was sacked on the basis of making a mistake that cost the club money, she might have a winnable court case considering some of the expensive gaffes made in the last few years that had no consequences.