Poisoned Russian spy.

[Francis Albert]

Smearing the deadly nerve agent on the front door of the house seems an extraordinarily crude form of assassination to be adopted by what is one of the most sophisticated and experienced assassination squads in the world.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Thunderstruck]

12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Smearing the deadly nerve agent on the front door of the house seems an extraordinarily crude form of assassination to be adopted by what is one of the most sophisticated and experienced assassination squads in the world.

 

 

 

Perhaps the assassins were movie buffs. 

 

[Ibrahim Tall]

24 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Smearing the deadly nerve agent on the front door of the house seems an extraordinarily crude form of assassination to be adopted by what is one of the most sophisticated and experienced assassination squads in the world.

 

 

Kind of, in a way it's pretty clever though assuming it's the door handle. If you're a visitor, postman etc you'll perhaps I.e. knock the door but you generally won't touch the handle yourself or else you've got a key.

If they knew he was arriving home in a few minutes it's a lot more subtle than randomly stabbing him with an umbrella in the street, particularly to a guy that himself was a former spy and would possibly have picked up on being followed etc.

[southcap]

Out of curiosity, is anyone still on the fence whether Russia did it or not?

[Thunderstruck]

45 minutes ago, southcap said:

Out of curiosity, is anyone still on the fence whether Russia did it or not?

 

I’m sure that very few now think them to be innocent. Admitting that is quite a different matter, particularly for those who set their faces against Russian culpability. 

[southcap]

2 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

I’m sure that very few now think them to be innocent. Admitting that is quite a different matter, particularly for those who set their faces against Russian culpability. 

There was nothing wrong with scepticism, especially since the UK government has a proud history of talking complete and utter shite. It was just one of these things were there really was no plausible alternatives from the very beginning. The less said about the tinfoil hat wearers though, the better. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Smearing the deadly nerve agent on the front door of the house seems an extraordinarily crude form of assassination to be adopted by what is one of the most sophisticated and experienced assassination squads in the world.

 

 

 

Far from it, I'd say, if the nerve agent was sprayed or smeared on the door handle then very very few people other than the Skripals would touch that handle, giving the fact he normally lived alone and also with the attack taking place on a Sunday when there is no mail or parcel deliveries, thus minimising the chances of someone else touching the handle, besides wouldn't the postie/delivery driver knock on the door and not touch the handle anyway.

 

Instead of being a crude form, this has been a well planned and executed attack.

[Sraman]

2 hours ago, southcap said:

Out of curiosity, is anyone still on the fence whether Russia did it or not?

 

Did someone call?

 

There is no evidence the Russians did it yet. Until such times as evidence is presented I shall remain perched on that fence.

 

If they both felt unwell at the same time does that mean they must have touched the door handle at the same time, and if so, who has a door that needs two people to open it with the same handle at the same time?

 

I suspect the traces on the door handle could be residue from the hands of one of the Skirpals as they left the house. Have the police spoken to the Skirpals dealer yet?

[AlphonseCapone]

24 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

Did someone call?

 

There is no evidence the Russians did it yet. Until such times as evidence is presented I shall remain perched on that fence.

 

If they both felt unwell at the same time does that mean they must have touched the door handle at the same time, and if so, who has a door that needs two people to open it with the same handle at the same time?

 

I suspect the traces on the door handle could be residue from the hands of one of the Skirpals as they left the house. Have the police spoken to the Skirpals dealer yet?

 

No evidence, not even circumstantial? 

 

Your second paragraph makes a lot of assumptions, thought that wasn't your game. 

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Far from it, I'd say, if the nerve agent was sprayed or smeared on the door handle then very very few people other than the Skripals would touch that handle, giving the fact he normally lived alone and also with the attack taking place on a Sunday when there is no mail or parcel deliveries, thus minimising the chances of someone else touching the handle, besides wouldn't the postie/delivery driver knock on the door and not touch the handle anyway.

 

Instead of being a crude form, this has been a well planned and executed attack.

Don't know where you live but if anyone spread an extremely toxic nerve agent on a door handle down our street on a Sunday the intended victim could return home to be warned off by a pile of corpses of Amazon delivery people, or deliverymen from Ocada or Tesco or numerous other delivery services which operate on Sundays, not to mention religious leafletters. Isn't there also some discrepancy in saying that anyone who had been anywhere near the places the Skripals had visited or where other smaller traces had been found should burn their clothing, such was the risk, but the assassins could rely on no-one leaning against or touching, or getting too close to the door handle while knocking on the door on a Sunday., while holding a parcel or pushing a note through the letterbox?

 

With the police and military saying they need possibly months of further forensic analysis and investigation is it maybe too soon to draw conclusions?

 

I remember how gullible we all were in the peak of the first cold war in the 50s and 60s, swallowing whole what we were told about the Russian demons and our brave upholders of freedom and democracy. So I will remain sceptical about what we are told until the ,evidence, that we are told will take many more months to accumulate,. is available. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 3/28/2018 at 04:35, John Findlay said:

Are they not Marxist in political belief? Or do they see some overseas funding going out the window?

 

What would being Marxist have to do with it? Do folk think Putin is a Marxist in any way?

[Sraman]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

No evidence, not even circumstantial? 

 

Your second paragraph makes a lot of assumptions, thought that wasn't your game. 

 

As far as I can tell, the circumstantial evidence all states Putin bad, Tories Good. This is then backed up by pointing to historical actions by Putin whilst simultaneously ignoring all the historical, as well as current, actions of the Tories. 

 

My second paragraph was asking questions of the latest theories being put forward by fellow kickbackers. Therefore, you are quite correct in your thinking.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

28 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Don't know where you live but if anyone spread an extremely toxic nerve agent on a door handle down our street on a Sunday the intended victim could return home to be warned off by a pile of corpses of Amazon delivery people, or deliverymen from Ocada or Tesco or numerous other delivery services which operate on Sundays, not to mention religious leafletters. Isn't there also some discrepancy in saying that anyone who had been anywhere near the places the Skripals had visited or where other smaller traces had been found should burn their clothing, such was the risk, but the assassins could rely on no-one leaning against or touching, or getting too close to the door handle while knocking on the door on a Sunday., while holding a parcel or pushing a note through the letterbox?

 

With the police and military saying they need possibly months of further forensic analysis and investigation is it maybe too soon to draw conclusions?

 

I remember how gullible we all were in the peak of the first cold war in the 50s and 60s, swallowing whole what we were told about the Russian demons and our brave upholders of freedom and democracy. So I will remain sceptical about what we are told until the ,evidence, that we are told will take many more months to accumulate,. is available. 

 

Only ever seen an Amazon delivery on a Sunday at Christmas time, not saying there isn't any, but not where I live, at least not which I've seen.

 

If they had gotten the nerve agent on their hands, then wouldn't everything they touched afterwards potentially be contaminated as well?

If someone sneezes or coughs in their hand and then opens a door and you come along five minutes later and touch that handle don't you then run the risk of catching a cold or the flu?

This will be why everything the Skripals touched could potentially infect everyone else who also came into contact with that item afterwards.

 

Wasn't alive in the 50's and was only a kid in the 60's so I can't comment about all the paranoia that there was at this time, all I know is what I've seen & heard on the TV about it.

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Potential good news, as Yulia is no longer in a critical condition and her condition is improving rapidly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43588450

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Only ever seen an Amazon delivery on a Sunday at Christmas time, not saying there isn't any, but not where I live, at least not which I've seen.

 

If they had gotten the nerve agent on their hands, then wouldn't everything they touched afterwards potentially be contaminated as well?

If someone sneezes or coughs in their hand and then opens a door and you come along five minutes later and touch that handle don't you then run the risk of catching a cold or the flu?

This will be why everything the Skripals touched could potentially infect everyone else who also came into contact with that item afterwards.

 

Wasn't alive in the 50's and was only a kid in the 60's so I can't comment about all the paranoia that there was at this time, all I know is what I've seen & heard on the TV about it.

 

 

Amazon have made Sunday deliveries since 2014. Ocado, Tesco and many others do too. Other people call at doors on Sundays too (annoyingly).

My point was not to deny that cross contamination can occur; it was that a sophisticated Russian assassin or assassins would be unlikely to assume that others would not touch a door handle in a public street.

For that matter I think they would be unlikely to use as a weapon something easily traceable as "most likely" being sourced from Russia (likely but not yet proven).

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Amazon have made Sunday deliveries since 2014. Ocado, Tesco and many others do too. Other people call at doors on Sundays too (annoyingly).

My point was not to deny that cross contamination can occur; it was that a sophisticated Russian assassin or assassins would be unlikely to assume that others would not touch a door handle in a public street.

For that matter I think they would be unlikely to use as a weapon something easily traceable as "most likely" being sourced from Russia (likely but not yet proven).

 

 

That assumes the would be assassin/s have a conscience and care about Joe Public.

 

[Sraman]

15 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Potential good news, as Yulia is no longer in a critical condition and her condition is improving rapidly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43588450

 

It is good news, especially given that someone was calling for them to be put out of their misery as the hospital had stated that they wouldn't have a life worth living due to the brain damage suffered.  Wow. Go on the NHS! Still the best thing to come out of these isles.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

7 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

It is good news, especially given that someone was calling for them to be put out of their misery as the hospital had stated that they wouldn't have a life worth living due to the brain damage suffered.  Wow. Go on the NHS! Still the best thing to come out of these isles.

 

Did the hospital say this though?  Or was it the media going for the dramatic headline.

[John Findlay]

52 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

What would being Marxist have to do with it? Do folk think Putin is a Marxist in any way?

During the main period of what is referred to in the UK as the troubles concerning Northern Ireland 1969-2000(when after the good Friday Agreement kicked in) the republicans were being funded in various ways by the Kreme in as it was seen as a way of destabilising the UK. SInn Féin being the political arm of the republicans would have received a fair bit of this money.  Although Putin may not be a Marxist in the true sense of the word he still wishes to destabilise the west. So, I think it is safe to say that the Kremlin are still sending funds their way. SInn Féin has a strong voice in Stormont. 

[Francis Albert]

10 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That assumes the would be assassin/s have a conscience and care about Joe Public.

 

You said it was a well planned and executed attack and suggested that the perpetrators were safe  to assume noone other than the intended victim would touch the door handle on a Sunday. And if it was well planned we have to assume that the plan was to make the russians easily identifiable as the culprits. For me it doesn't really stack up, even before getting to motivation.

[Sraman]

16 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Did the hospital say this though?  Or was it the media going for the dramatic headline.

 

It was a neighbour of the Skripals who said the hospital wasn't letting them in to see them. This is, allegedly, what the neighbour said the hospital told them. It was on a link further up the thread, Sky News I think. It stuck out as it's the only MSM thing I've read other than the BBC's account.

[Victorian]

3 hours ago, Sraman said:

 

Did someone call?

 

There is no evidence the Russians did it yet. Until such times as evidence is presented I shall remain perched on that fence.

 

If they both felt unwell at the same time does that mean they must have touched the door handle at the same time, and if so, who has a door that needs two people to open it with the same handle at the same time?

 

I suspect the traces on the door handle could be residue from the hands of one of the Skirpals as they left the house. Have the police spoken to the Skirpals dealer yet?

 

I assume when you say "there is no evidence" that what you actually mean is that you have not been given an opportunity to view evidence.     If my assumption is correct then you are 100% right.  

[Victorian]

The suggested mode of delivery seems completely plausible.     A completely secure method of applying the agent in the place designed to contaminate the victim(s).     Very limited risk of the delivery act being compromised.     Time and limited exposure to limit the risk of self contamination.      High probability of covert infiltration and exfiltration.     

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

30 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

It was a neighbour of the Skripals who said the hospital wasn't letting them in to see them. This is, allegedly, what the neighbour said the hospital told them. It was on a link further up the thread, Sky News I think. It stuck out as it's the only MSM thing I've read other than the BBC's account.

 

I saw the interview as well.

He told Sky News: "Quite frankly, what future have they got? I don't know the properties of this weapon that was used on them and my guess is they are probably being kept alive by artificial means and what life will they have if they survive?

"We've already been told they will be severely mentally impaired and I don't think they would want that. I think death would probably be merciful."

https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-sergei-skripal-and-daughter-yulia-should-be-allowed-to-die-11306692

 

The key point for me here is.

Who told him they would be "Severely mentally impaired"  I would be astonished if it were the Hospital, as Hospital's don't usually give out that kind of information, especially to a neighbour.

I seem to recall a weapons expert mentioning something about the amount of brain damage nerve agents can cause, so maybe that is where he's heard it.

Besides he doesn't actually say in this interview that it was the Hospital which told him they would be brain damaged, he just say's "We've already been told.................." without giving the source of the info.

[felix]

6 hours ago, southcap said:

Out of curiosity, is anyone still on the fence whether Russia did it or not?

Depends what you mean by Russia - a Putin sanctioned hit or a personal vendetta by the GRU.

I'm on the fence.

 

In any case it's irrelevant. It's already been decided it was Putin and the wheels are in motion for a potential second cold war.

The real question should be why  - and why now  ?

 

[Francis Albert]

41 minutes ago, felix said:

Depends what you mean by Russia - a Putin sanctioned hit or a personal vendetta by the GRU.

I'm on the fence.

 

In any case it's irrelevant. It's already been decided it was Putin and the wheels are in motion for a potential second cold war.

The real question should be why  - and why now  ?

 

I agree. I am perfectly willing to believe that Putin and/or the GRU (though I doubt the latter operate independently of Putin) are capable of killing their enemies abroad and statistically the number of Russians murdered or dying in mysterious circumstances in the UK suggests it has probably happened not infrequently. But why the change of modus operandi to unnecessarily risking taking other lives and deliberately putting down a trail of evidence that seems to point unambiguously to Russia? And why now, when Russia has established a seemingly fairly cosy relationship with the only Western leader who really matters?

 

I have to say in terms of motive my mind turns to international terrorists who have a clear motive for setting those with a common interest in opposing them at each others throats. Motive isn't everything but ISIS and other such organisations have a clear motive for doing what was done in the way it was done, whereas I struggle to understand what Russia's motive would be, other than some fundamental irrational evil.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Victorian]

And how would international terrorists such as Islamic State inspired or directed agents obtain such exotic materials?       Even if they did,    doesn't that still virtually certainly implicate Russia as having been criminally negligent regarding the security of such materials?

 

No.    Such whatiffery does not credibly stand up and does not avert the blame from Russia.      

[Sraman]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

And how would international terrorists such as Islamic State inspired or directed agents obtain such exotic materials?       Even if they did,    doesn't that still virtually certainly implicate Russia as having been criminally negligent regarding the security of such materials?

 

No.    Such whatiffery does not credibly stand up and does not avert the blame from Russia.      

 

WHAAATTiffery! Whatiffery!

 

You really must pay more attention at the back. The whole point of Novichoks, or so we have been told, is that they can be manufactured from readily available ingredients anywhere in the world old chap.

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

WHAAATTiffery! Whatiffery!

 

You really must pay more attention at the back. The whole point of Novichoks, or so we have been told, is that they can be manufactured from readily available ingredients anywhere in the world old chap.

Sounds terribly straightforward.    It's almost miraculous then that the likes of Islamic State have chosen not to kill many thousands of people in Europe and America and beyond with this readily available weaponry of mass destruction.    

 

Perhaps the psychopathic murderers of the world have decided that mass murder is not valid or indeed ethical in this regard.     Good for them.

[Francis Albert]

32 minutes ago, Victorian said:

And how would international terrorists such as Islamic State inspired or directed agents obtain such exotic materials?       Even if they did,    doesn't that still virtually certainly implicate Russia as having been criminally negligent regarding the security of such materials?

 

No.    Such whatiffery does not credibly stand up and does not avert the blame from Russia.      

Not trying to avert the blame just arguing that there is maybe reasonable doubt. Your "doesn't that still virtually certainly implicate Russia as having been criminally negligent" suggests an over-eagerness to find Russia guilty whatever the facts might be.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Not trying to avert the blame just arguing that there is maybe reasonable doubt. Your "doesn't that still virtually certainly implicate Russia as having been criminally negligent" suggests an over-eagerness to find Russia guilty whatever the facts might be.

It's not an over eagerness.    It's a logical conclusion arrived at,  based on all reasonable information.     

 

Other suggestions of the easily obtained pre-cursor materials and readily available knowledge of how to create viable materials from them are just lunacy.      

[Thunderstruck]

2 minutes ago, felix said:

Depends what you mean by Russia - a Putin sanctioned hit or a personal vendetta by the GRU.

I'm on the fence.

 

In any case it's irrelevant. It's already been decided it was Putin and the wheels are in motion for a potential second cold war.

The real question should be why  - and why now  ?

 

 

We are already in a new form of warfare.

 

Says who? 

 

Says Valery Gerasimov, Head of the Russian Armed Forces.

 

5 years ago he stated that the concepts of war and peace are blurred and we are now in a “state of war by other means”. In other words, the role of non-kinetic warfare is on the rise. 

 

 

 

[felix]

5 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

We are already in a new form of warfare.

Says who? 

Says Valery Gerasimov, Head of the Russian Armed Forces.

5 years ago he stated that the concepts of war and peace are blurred and we are now in a “state of war by other means”. In other words, the role of non-kinetic warfare is on the rise. 

 

Non kinetic warfare !?

That's economic sanctions and cyber intelligence right ?

[Francis Albert]

Just saw a picture of the "suspect door" in the Guardian. The door handle is very close to and just above the letter box which is at waist height. The idea that the brilliant planners of the operation could have dismissed as remote  the likelihood of someone other than the intended victim touching the door handle is ludicrous. The same page has extracts from Johnson"s speech at the Lord Mayors Banquet which is the worst example of pompous blow hard nonsense surely ever spoken by a British Foreign Secretary ... "this week was the moment when the world decided to say enough to the wearying barrage of Russian lies, the torrent of obfuscation and intercontinental ballistic whoppers".

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Francis Albert

[shaun.lawson]

12 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

We are already in a new form of warfare.

 

Says who? 

 

Says Valery Gerasimov, Head of the Russian Armed Forces.

 

5 years ago he stated that the concepts of war and peace are blurred and we are now in a “state of war by other means”. In other words, the role of non-kinetic warfare is on the rise. 

 

 

 

 

Yup. And we are stunningly ill-prepared for it.

[Sraman]

11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's not an over eagerness.    It's a logical conclusion arrived at,  based on all reasonable information.     

 

Other suggestions of the easily obtained pre-cursor materials and readily available knowledge of how to create viable materials from them are just lunacy.      

 

It aint me,

It's the BBC.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43377698

 

Lunatics the lot of them.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Just saw a picture of the "suspect door" in the Guardian. The door handle is very close to and just above the letter box which is at waist height. The idea that the brilliant planners of the operation could have dismissed as remote  the likelihood of someone other than the intended victim touching the door handle is ludicrous. The same page has ectracts fro Johnson"s speech at the Lord Mayors Banquet which is the worst example of pompous blow hard nonsense surely ever spoken by a British Foreign Secretary ... "this week was the moment when the world decided to say enough to the wearying barrage of Russian lies, the torrent of obfuscation and intercontinental ballistic whoppers".

 

The point of the risk of non-target contamination is irrelevant.      This is highly unlikely to have been a consideration.     The high degree of risk of further cross-contamination via the targets existed in any case.     In an instance of such a toxic substance being deployed,   the deployment in itself is indiscriminately reckless enough.      Collateral damage to Postman Pat is not exacty priority 1.

[Sraman]

6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yup. And we are stunningly ill-prepared for it.

 

Did we not start it?

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

Did we not start it?

 

A Frenchman, a Briton, and a Russian are captured by an African tribe and are about to be killed. The chief asks if they have any last requests. 

The Frenchman asks for a glass of wine and is granted it. The Briton asks for a cigar and is granted it. The Russian asks for a punch in the nose and is granted it. At this point, he removes a gun from his pocket and shoots the chief. 

The Briton and the Frenchman are astounded. "If you had the gun all along", they ask, "why didn’t you use it immediately?" The Russian smiles. "We are never the aggressor".

[Victorian]

8 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

It aint me,

It's the BBC.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43377698

 

Lunatics the lot of them.

Perhaps the lunacy lies in how one digests the information in an article like that.     As well as forming assumptions from the information that is not present.

 

The theoretical suggestion of harmless pre-cursors being combined to manufacture potent and viable harmful agent,  without any supporting information regarding the equipment,  conditions and technical knowledge that would be required... or indeed not required... is just baseless speculation.  

[Sraman]

Just now, Victorian said:

Perhaps the lunacy lies in how one digests the information in an article like that.     As well as forming assumptions from the information that is not present.

 

The theoretical suggestion of harmless pre-cursors being combined to manufacture potent and viable harmful agent,  without any supporting information regarding the equipment,  conditions and technical knowledge that would be required... or indeed not required... is just baseless speculation.  

 

Are you calling our chemists rubbish?

 

Where's your stiff upper lip man?

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Sraman said:

 

Are you calling our chemists rubbish?

 

Where's your stiff upper lip man?

I'm quite willing to reconsider things if someone can conclusively demonstrate which pre-cursor ingredients are required and also full details regarding where the nerve agent manufacturing lies on a scale between requiring Porton Down and all of it's resources,   down to a loon in a garden shed with an Acme chemistry set and a shopping bag of goodies from Semichem.

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The point of the risk of non-target contamination is irrelevant.      This is highly unlikely to have been a consideration.     The high degree of risk of further cross-contamination via the targets existed in any case.     In an instance of such a toxic substance being deployed,   the deployment in itself is indiscriminately reckless enough.      Collateral damage to Postman Pat is not exacty priority 1.

I was reacting to a suggestion by another poster that smearing the doorhandle on a sunday was part of a brilliant plan because only the intended victim would be at risk. This attack was as you say indiscriminately reckless and seems designed to implicate those who seemingly carried it out. As such it seems out of character for the alleged perpetrators and it is  difficult to explain why they should act in this way.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

I was reacting to a suggestion by another poster that smearing the doorhandle on a sunday was part of a brilliant plan because only the intended victim would be at risk. This attack was as you say indiscriminately reckless and seems designed to implicate those who seemingly carried it out. 85 As such it seems out of character for the alleged perpetrators and it is  difficult to explain why they should act in this way.

Fair enough.   Motive is probably the most complex area to comprehend.    I doubt that could ever be established.

[Sraman]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I'm quite willing to reconsider things if someone can conclusively demonstrate which pre-cursor ingredients are required and also full details regarding where the nerve agent manufacturing lies on a scale between requiring Porton Down and all of it's resources,   down to a loon in a garden shed with an Acme chemistry set and a shopping bag of goodies from Semichem.

 

I think both approaches could be successful in producing the required symptoms in this case, sitting on a bench foaming at the mouth. But, if Novichok was manufactured under full facilities, of which I'm sure the UK holds more than one of such facilities, are we not led to believe that they would not be coming back from that attack? Makes it sound like a real botch job. You could say whoever done it made a real Boris Johnson of it.

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

I think both approaches could be successful in producing the required symptoms in this case, sitting on a bench foaming at the mouth. But, if Novichok was manufactured under full facilities, of which I'm sure the UK holds more than one of such facilities, are we not led to believe that they would not be coming back from that attack? Makes it sound like a real botch job. You could say whoever done it made a real Boris Johnson of it.

You must have some specific information regarding the necessary chemicals,  equipment,  conditions and technical knowledge required to manufacture 'full fat' and 'homebrew' versions of the agent in order to conclude that.

[Sraman]

18 minutes ago, Victorian said:

You must have some specific information regarding the necessary chemicals,  equipment,  conditions and technical knowledge required to manufacture 'full fat' and 'homebrew' versions of the agent in order to conclude that.

 

Not me personally but, again, we are led to believe that Iran know how to do it because the Americans watched them do it so, if the Americans watched them do it you would think that they have a pretty good idea how to do it too, which brings us nicely to our extra special relationship where the Americans who know how to do it because they watched the Iranians do it told us how to do it because that's what a special relationship is all about and we've been doing that for years.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Sraman

[niblick1874]

Politicians (from the far left right through to the far right) have, and will, lie through their teeth. This is a proven fact.

 

The MSM have, and will, lie through their teeth to you. This is a proven fact.

 

Anyone that comes to a conclusion using what they are told by ether one of these scum Is not to be taken seriously.

 

Anyone telling you in what ever way you should take into consideration what the politicians and the MSM say have no credibility what so ever.

 

Always ask them where they are getting what they are coming out with.

 

How many on here are trying to pass this kind of shit by you? There are more than one or two. 

 

Think for yourself by using your common sense. 

 

[jake]

Now Russia expels 60 US diplomats.

So we revisit the cold war.

I don't want to diminish the attempted murder of people but you really have to wonder why we are where we are.

Considering the rhetoric involved.

 

Guess it's time to stock pile some weapons .

Some new ways to kill.   All in the name of freedom and democracy.

 

 

 

[jake]

How's those Russian gold reserves coming along?