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Sweet Caroline

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MacPhee
1 minute ago, red said:

Not a shocker at all! It’s true! Your losing the place at fellow fans and calling/agreeing fans are cancer of our club? And I’m having a shocker? 

 

 

Show me where i agreed with anyone calling anyone cancer of the club????

 

All ive been saying is FTP should not have been used, it has no reference to HMFC, anyone with a single bit of sense would understand this and somehow you cant. 

 

You think FTP is no worse than FTH, how? 

 

Then you start calling the non sectarian side of the support the minority????????

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mbhmfc
12 minutes ago, red said:

As for you saying “these fans are the cancer of the club” 

 

well 70-80% of Them booed the minutes silence for the last pope! I was there and it was possible more than that! 

 

Have any of you muppets ever thought YOU are the minority! And crying like snobs over a few guys drunkenly shouting FTP has drove thousands of fans away and turned Tynecastle into a library! 

 

And you blame a guy shouting one offensive word as the cancer of our club!!?????

 

Its football. It’s a word said in jest! I bet majority of them don’t even know the Popes name! Get over it ffs (is ffs ok?)  

 

 

Again I don’t condone this but sure as hell I ain’t calling for any of my fellow supporters to be banned or accusing the of being the cancer of our club! 

 

Nice edit there "I dont condone it". You basically just went on a rant explaining for everyone to see why saying FTP is acceptable at a football match and in 2018. Rangers fan without the bus fare mate.

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red
1 minute ago, mbhmfc said:

 

Nice edit there "I dont condone it". You basically just went on a rant explaining for everyone to see why saying FTP is acceptable at a football match and in 2018. Rangers fan without the bus fare mate.

LoL really? I don’t condone it! My first reply said that very thing! 

 

However I ain’t shouting for my fellow fans to be banned because of it! That’s their prerogative! Read back before you type. Good boy ?

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Baird, King and Michael
Just now, red said:

Derby win and folk losing the place over a few guys in a section shouting a word! This place is bonkers

 

Except that's not what the discussion is about...is it Red?

 

It's not about one or two using inappropriate words in the heat of the moment or after a few beers after a fantastic result.

 

Its about a minority, but a significant minority at this club who want to see Hearts associated with Loyalism and the political and religious consequences that stem from that.

 

They want us to be seen as a club of Protestantism (whatever that is) they want us to sing the sash, want us to sing FTP or No Pope of Rome,  Hello, Hello with all the added extras. 

 

So this discussion is not about high jinx or people temporarily losing it .it is a discussion about the type of club that we want to support.

 

I want to support one where everyone who wants to follow Hearts is welcome, regardless of their sex, their race or their creed. 

 

As a support we are hugely diverse, each one of us has our own beliefs, our own tastes, our own preferences but the vast majority leave them at the door on a matchday and support the team. (A team incidentally made up of all races and creeds.)

 

Whenever it happens I think it should be called out, not ignored.

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red
5 minutes ago, MacPhee said:

 

 

Show me where i agreed with anyone calling anyone cancer of the club????

 

All ive been saying is FTP should not have been used, it has no reference to HMFC, anyone with a single bit of sense would understand this and somehow you cant. 

 

You think FTP is no worse than FTH, how? 

 

Then you start calling the non sectarian side of the support the minority????????

I agree with you it should not be used! However I don’t agree with you or anyone shouting for folk to be banned because of it, I also don’t agree with whoever it was who called these guys the cancer of our club (I’m referring to the guys who shouted FTP, not all the other crap which gets shouted) 

I was referring to 70-80% of OUR fans booing the minutes silence! 

 

If a section of our support acted like rangers and Celtic on a regular basis throughout the whole 90minutes I wouldn’t go to the games! However once or twice in delirium I can handle and put it down to alcohol or over exhuberance! Not the cancer of our club! 

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Jenks
3 minutes ago, Baird, King and Michael said:

 

Except that's not what the discussion is about...is it Red?

 

It's not about one or two using inappropriate words in the heat of the moment or after a few beers after a fantastic result.

 

Its about a minority, but a significant minority at this club who want to see Hearts associated with Loyalism and the political and religious consequences that stem from that.

 

They want us to be seen as a club of Protestantism (whatever that is) they want us to sing the sash, want us to sing FTP or No Pope of Rome,  Hello, Hello with all the added extras. 

 

So this discussion is not about high jinx or people temporarily losing it .it is a discussion about the type of club that we want to support.

 

I want to support one where everyone who wants to follow Hearts is welcome, regardless of their sex, their race or their creed. 

 

As a support we are hugely diverse, each one of us has our own beliefs, our own tastes, our own preferences but the vast majority leave them at the door on a matchday and support the team. (A team incidentally made up of all races and creeds.)

 

Whenever it happens I think it should be called out, not ignored.

Very well said and if anyone disagrees it with this they should be nowhere near Tynecastle.

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mbhmfc
2 minutes ago, red said:

LoL really? I don’t condone it! My first reply said that very thing! 

 

However I ain’t shouting for my fellow fans to be banned because of it! That’s their prerogative! Read back before you type. Good boy ?

Don't worry, i have "read back" buddy. 

 

You're saying its acceptable to sing songs at a FOOTBALL game about a RELIGIOUS figure in the pope.......

 

As i said and will say again, Rangers fan without the bus fare as that is their mentality. 

 

You've had a shocker here mate, just face it rather than making it worse for yourself :)  

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red
3 minutes ago, Baird, King and Michael said:

 

Except that's not what the discussion is about...is it Red?

 

It's not about one or two using inappropriate words in the heat of the moment or after a few beers after a fantastic result.

 

Its about a minority, but a significant minority at this club who want to see Hearts associated with Loyalism and the political and religious consequences that stem from that.

 

They want us to be seen as a club of Protestantism (whatever that is) they want us to sing the sash, want us to sing FTP or No Pope of Rome,  Hello, Hello with all the added extras. 

 

So this discussion is not about high jinx or people temporarily losing it .it is a discussion about the type of club that we want to support.

 

I want to support one where everyone who wants to follow Hearts is welcome, regardless of their sex, their race or their creed. 

 

As a support we are hugely diverse, each one of us has our own beliefs, our own tastes, our own preferences but the vast majority leave them at the door on a matchday and support the team. (A team incidentally made up of all races and creeds.)

 

Whenever it happens I think it should be called out, not ignored.

Agree with all of that! But how do we know that one guy (or a few more) was one of them? The guy shouted FTP (apparently) ffs? 

 

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Smithee

As the post above says, this shit has no place at tynie.

Proud of your religion? Go to church. 

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Brauhauser2012

I feel uncomfortable with FTP so sang FTH instead and I've encouraged my boys to do the same, not that they will probably listen to me.

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red
2 minutes ago, mbhmfc said:

Don't worry, i have "read back" buddy. 

 

You're saying its acceptable to sing songs at a FOOTBALL game about a RELIGIOUS figure in the pope.......

 

As i said and will say again, Rangers fan without the bus fare as that is their mentality. 

 

You've had a shocker here mate, just face it rather than making it worse for yourself :)  

Read back again because I am not saying it’s acceptable! I’m saying asking for folk to be banned because of a few badly chosen words is what’s making our ground a library! 

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Jenks
2 minutes ago, red said:

Read back again because I am not saying it’s acceptable! I’m saying asking for folk to be banned because of a few badly chosen words is what’s making our ground a library! 

These folk SHOULD be banned though because they are scum! Religion has NOTHING to do with football. The same as the 'hard men 'who think it's fine to go battling and pavement dancing because they think they should be 'harder than other fans. It's a sport ffs. Sad  , Sad people.

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GorgieRulesApply
28 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

So you condone the "FTP" shite do you?

Can't say I like/dislike it. Just don't see why people make such a big deal out of it.

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Baird, King and Michael
6 minutes ago, red said:

Agree with all of that! But how do we know that one guy (or a few more) was one of them? The guy shouted FTP (apparently) ffs? 

 

Think we're talking at cross purposes a bit here Red. I'm not referring to a single guy... It was a significant number that sung FTP. Not everybody, not the majority but enough for it to be clearly heard at the game, in the concourses afterwards and on TV when I watched it back later. 

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Jenks
2 minutes ago, GorgieRulesApply said:

Can't say I like/dislike it. Just don't see why people make such a big deal out of it.

Because it's totally pathetic and has nothing to do with what you are watching.

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MacPhee
1 minute ago, GorgieRulesApply said:

Can't say I like/dislike it. Just don't see why people make such a big deal out of it.

 

Because we have players in our team who are catholic and i dont think they would appreciate it coming from the stands. 

 

Also it is irrelevant to HMFC. why couldn't people just sing FTH. perfect sense considering we had just beat hibs.

Edited by MacPhee

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Forza Cuore
2 minutes ago, GorgieRulesApply said:

Can't say I like/dislike it. Just don't see why people make such a big deal out of it.

Maybe they find it offensive and its potentially illegal?

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Thought Police

Just think it’s offensive to Catholics in our support. There’s no Hibs fans in our support.

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MacPhee
2 minutes ago, Thought Police said:

Just think it’s offensive to Catholics in our support. There’s no Hibs fans in our support.

 

 

Spot on 

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Baird, King and Michael
45 minutes ago, red said:

As for you saying “these fans are the cancer of the club” 

 

well 70-80% of Them booed the minutes silence for the last pope! I was there and it was possible more than that! 

 

Have any of you muppets ever thought YOU are the minority! And crying like snobs over a few guys drunkenly shouting FTP has drove thousands of fans away and turned Tynecastle into a library! 

 

And you blame a guy shouting one offensive word as the cancer of our club!!?????

 

Its football. It’s a word said in jest! I bet majority of them don’t even know the Popes name! Get over it ffs (is ffs ok?)  

 

 

Again I don’t condone this but sure as hell I ain’t calling for any of my fellow supporters to be banned or accusing the of being the cancer of our club! 

The cancer I referred too was not those who get caught up in the moment or who've had a few.

 

I'm not taking about the vast majority of Hearts fans. 

 

I'm on about that significant minority I mentioned who are motivated to see us identified with loyalism.

 

I stand by this remark. Anyone who wants to use Hearts to promote their agenda of sectarianism is a cancer to the club. 

 

 

Edited by Baird, King and Michael

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red
6 minutes ago, Baird, King and Michael said:

Think we're talking at cross purposes a bit here Red. I'm not referring to a single guy... It was a significant number that sung FTP. Not everybody, not the majority but enough for it to be clearly heard at the game, in the concourses afterwards and on TV when I watched it back later. 

Fair enough! I didn’t hear it and by sounds of it I was the only one chanting the actual words from the song! Oh oh oh! 

 

I am am not condoning one thing sectarian here and my argument is on the odd guy adding FTP in delirium being hounded our support not the apparent masses who sing sectarian garbage throughout a game which btw doesn’t happen in my section and rarely In section G anytime I’ve sat there. Heard it a few in N but nothing drastic from memory 

 

this is not me backtracking either! My first post said the same thing! 

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red
1 minute ago, Baird, King and Michael said:

The cancer I referred too was not those who get caught up in the moment or who've had a few.

 

I'm not taking about the vast majority of Hearts fans. 

 

I'm on about that significant minority I mentioned who are motivated to see us identified with loyalism.

 

I stand by this remark. Anyone who wants to use Hearts to promote their agenda of sectarianism is a cancer to the club. 

 

I stand by me remark. i do

Well my argument was on the “odd guy caught up” so we’ve reached a stalemate! Thank F I’m bored! 

 

Off To the game

 

 

(once I’ve polished my flute) 

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Leipzig 51
10 minutes ago, Thought Police said:

Just think it’s offensive to Catholics in our support. There’s no Hibs fans in our support.

 

Post of the year. Early days though.

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iwasthere1954
1 hour ago, red said:

How is FTP anyworse than FTH?  

 

Theres folk on here arguing there case that FTP is horrible and bigoted yet in the same sentence admitting to FTH? lol. 

 

Why dont we just stop any kind of swearing at games altogether? Some of our fans need a reality check! The same fans who moan about lack of atmosphere and probably the same ones who chanted that boring Euro song at start of season when we hadn’t won in 10 games! 

You honestly think FTP is no worse than FTH. I fear our education system has failed.

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iwasthere1954
1 hour ago, Baird, King and Michael said:

Are you being serious Red?

 

i'd have thought the difference was pretty obvious....however, to be pedantic...

 

The law, (Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill 2011) states;

 

This Bill criminalises behaviour which is violent, threatening, hateful or otherwise offensive. This can be anywhere, but applies especially at football matches where it is an offence to sing or chant sectarian songs. According to the bill it is also a criminal offence to threaten violence or make threats that are intended to incite another religion.

The jail term for a sectarian offence can be up to five years, but can be more depending on the severity of the offence. 

Types of offensive behaviour and communications include:

  • expressing or inciting religious, racial or other forms of hatred.
  • threatening or offensive behaviour.
  • threats of serious harm intended to cause fear and alarm, or reckless as to whether it does.
  • implied threats (e.g. bullets or images depicting serious harm).

So it is clear that sectarian chants or songs are treated differently in law from your plain old offensive football songs.

 

Getting caught in the street shouting FTP would lead to a very different punishment from being caught shouting FTH.

 

Putting the law aside for a moment, it is unlikely that many Hearts fans are offended by a FTH chant. Nobody on this thread is arguing for a sanitised atmosphere free from swearing and it is disingenuous to argue otherwise.

 

However a chant including FTP is clearly illegal, clearly divisive amongst our own support and clearly could be a barrier to us attracting new supporters. 

 

I accept the people doing this are Hearts not Rangers fans. Too many of our support have their heads in the sand on this issue.

 

I accept that many of them will follow Hearts home and away, purchase merchandise, contribute to the Foundation etc.    

 

However they are a cancer at this club.

 

The supporters of almost every other team in Scotland and the UK can generate an atmosphere, often intimidating, often with humour, without resorting to sectarianism. Its time we learned to do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post.

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iwasthere1954
1 hour ago, red said:

As for you saying “these fans are the cancer of the club” 

 

well 70-80% of Them booed the minutes silence for the last pope! I was there and it was possible more than that! 

 

Have any of you muppets ever thought YOU are the minority! And crying like snobs over a few guys drunkenly shouting FTP has drove thousands of fans away and turned Tynecastle into a library! 

 

And you blame a guy shouting one offensive word as the cancer of our club!!?????

 

Its football. It’s a word said in jest! I bet majority of them don’t even know the Popes name! Get over it ffs (is ffs ok?)  

 

 

Again I don’t condone this but sure as hell I ain’t calling for any of my fellow supporters to be banned or accusing the of being the cancer of our club! 

You think we are muppets. I think we all know who the muppets are. Braindead idiots.

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Neverforgetfiveone
On ‎22‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 18:47, letsalllaughathobos said:

Hello hello was superb and tbf everyone around me was singing hibee blood not it makes it any better, 

 

If your easy offended you should just bin it honestly it's not right but it's going to happen like it or not, 

 

Not alot can be done it's down to the parents of the next generation

Indeed, Hello Hello was superb and the ground was rocking'. Just think we need to find a happy medium with the words. Get some that suit ourselves and not sectarianism and it could go back to being a HMFC classic.

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Governor Tarkin

Well this thread has taken a pleasing turn :lol:

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Koolkeith

Be interested to know what the opinion of those who like to sing FTP, is of the royal family. Lots of similarities between the Catholic Church and royal family. 

Edited by Koolkeith

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Governor Tarkin
4 minutes ago, Koolkeith said:

Be interested to know what the opinion of those who like to sing FTP, is of the royal family. Lots of similarities between the Catholic Church and royal family. 

 

Well there's certainly one that springs immediately to mind, although at the moment it's only rumours about the royals.

 

:lol:

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cb1874

This is getting unbelievably silly now.

Think we're all agreed...FTP, Gorgie Billy Boys, Fenian Blood etc etc etc is sectarian rubbish and we need to find alternative words for Hello Hello.

It gets the ground rocking when we belt it out but needs changed.

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cb1874

Hello Hello

We are the Gorgie Boys

Hello Hello

You'll know us by our noise

You'll hear us on a Saturday

From Gorgie to Dalry

When we go marching through Gorgie

 

There's my effort...needs a better last line though imo

Anyone else?

Edited by cb1874

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yabadabadoo1874again
2 hours ago, Baird, King and Michael said:

 

Except that's not what the discussion is about...is it Red?

 

It's not about one or two using inappropriate words in the heat of the moment or after a few beers after a fantastic result.

 

Its about a minority, but a significant minority at this club who want to see Hearts associated with Loyalism and the political and religious consequences that stem from that.

 

They want us to be seen as a club of Protestantism (whatever that is) they want us to sing the sash, want us to sing FTP or No Pope of Rome,  Hello, Hello with all the added extras. 

 

So this discussion is not about high jinx or people temporarily losing it .it is a discussion about the type of club that we want to support.

 

I want to support one where everyone who wants to follow Hearts is welcome, regardless of their sex, their race or their creed. 

 

As a support we are hugely diverse, each one of us has our own beliefs, our own tastes, our own preferences but the vast majority leave them at the door on a matchday and support the team. (A team incidentally made up of all races and creeds.)

 

Whenever it happens I think it should be called out, not ignored.

 

Terrifically well put. 

 

Being grown up enough to hold your base instincts in... is a struggle for those  easily lead indolent glory hunters who should really be at ibrox...

 

Said it before...there are other more attractive options than supporting a team who are being (systematically?) infested with sectarian racist bigots...

 

 

 

 

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Governor Tarkin
15 minutes ago, yabadabadoo1874again said:

 

 

Said it before...there are other more attractive options than supporting a team who are being (systematically?) infested with sectarian racist bigots...

 

 

 

 

 

Like Hibs, for instance.

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Sir Vladimir of Romanov

The faux offend bus is fair filling up. 

 

People falling over themselves to be the most offended ?. 

 

Is it right? No. 

Has it always happened? Yes. 

Will we ever rid ourselves of this? No. 

 

If you don't want to hear it sing over them.  If as described it's a minority its not difficult to do. 

Edited by Sir Vladimir of Romanov

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winniethedog
19 hours ago, jambo2524 said:

Great song a few were singing HMFC instead of the words Sweet Caroline and that worked very well.

agree also that we replace sectarian extras with. Hearts extras you then have a song that all are happy to sing.

should be played after every home win .... Scott Wilson.

Sweet over the line 

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yabadabadoo1874again
On 24/01/2018 at 10:29, GorgieRulesApply said:

doesn't make them any less a Hearts fan that you pal

 

It certainly does...

 

 

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gnasher75

Personally I hate 'Hello, hello' regardless of what words are substituted. To me it will always be a horrible Rangers song with a nasty sectarian history. And whatever sanitised version some Hearts fans sing, others will sing the original.

 

Surely there are other better songs we can sing that don't leave us open to the charge that we are 'Rangers light' or whatever else we get called.

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SwindonJambo
1 minute ago, gnasher75 said:

Personally I hate 'Hello, hello' regardless of what words are substituted. To me it will always be a horrible Rangers song with a nasty sectarian history. And whatever sanitised version some Hearts fans sing, others will sing the original.

 

Surely there are other better songs we can sing that don't leave us open to the charge that we are 'Rangers light' or whatever else we get called.

Fully agree. 

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iwasthere1954
On 1/24/2018 at 19:46, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

The faux offend bus is fair filling up. 

 

People falling over themselves to be the most offended ?. 

 

Is it right? No. 

Has it always happened? Yes. 

Will we ever rid ourselves of this? No. 

 

If you don't want to hear it sing over them.  If as described it's a minority its not difficult to do. 

Your obviously very young. It has "not" always happened.Trust me I go a long way further back than you. Read the clubs history and tell me where and when this shit started.

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Sir Vladimir of Romanov
5 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

Your obviously very young. It has "not" always happened.Trust me I go a long way further back than you. Read the clubs history and tell me where and when this shit started.

 

I thank you for thinking I'm young, sadly not so much. ?

 

To clarify I was referring to sectarian singing, it has been heard as long as I've been going. And that's longer than I'd care to remember. 

 

I doubt any written history of the club refers to the prevalent songs of the time. 

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iwasthere1954
1 minute ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

I thank you for thinking I'm young, sadly not so much. ?

 

To clarify I was referring to sectarian singing, it has been heard as long as I've been going. And that's longer than I'd care to remember. 

 

I doubt any written history of the club refers to the prevalent songs of the time. 

Sorry but my point was that these songs were not top of the pops in my early days  going to Tynie. I know it flared up some time during the sixties {I think) but its been off and on however this is probably the worst I've heard in the last 20/30 years. Of course this is only my opinion.  

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Sir Vladimir of Romanov
1 minute ago, iwasthere1954 said:

Sorry but my point was that these songs were not top of the pops in my early days  going to Tynie. I know it flared up some time during the sixties {I think) but its been off and on however this is probably the worst I've heard in the last 20/30 years. Of course this is only my opinion.  

 

Fair enough, I have a bad memory at the best of times so perhaps I'm doing us a disservice. 

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geomac
1 hour ago, gnasher75 said:

Personally I hate 'Hello, hello' regardless of what words are substituted. To me it will always be a horrible Rangers song with a nasty sectarian history. And whatever sanitised version some Hearts fans sing, others will sing the original.

 

Surely there are other better songs we can sing that don't leave us open to the charge that we are 'Rangers light' or whatever else we get called.

 

It 'taints' us, I don't want tainted by that sh!t

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Tams bird

What has Sweet Caroline got to do with Hearts ? Couldn’t work that one out...

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GorgieRulesApply
10 hours ago, yabadabadoo1874again said:

 

It certainly does...

 

 

how is that exactly?

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4marsbars

I simply don't get sectarianism, in life or in football. But a substantial minority of Hearts fans seem to like it. Maybe we need to understand why. 

 

There seem to be, for want of a better expression, a number of 'Hello, hello' apologists on here.

 

I'd like to ask them, or anyone else who is keen on that sort of thing:

 

- what are the good things about being sectarian?

- what they get out of it?

- why they like bringing their sectarianism to the game?

- what they think Hearts should do to encourage more sectarianism?


Can somebody please explain what is good about it, and why they think it is OK at Tynecastle?


 

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yabadabadoo1874again
4 hours ago, 4marsbars said:

I simply don't get sectarianism, in life or in football. But a substantial minority of Hearts fans seem to like it. Maybe we need to understand why. 

 

There seem to be, for want of a better expression, a number of 'Hello, hello' apologists on here.

 

I'd like to ask them, or anyone else who is keen on that sort of thing:

 

- what are the good things about being sectarian?

- what they get out of it?

- why they like bringing their sectarianism to the game?

- what they think Hearts should do to encourage more sectarianism?


Can somebody please explain what is good about it, and why they think it is OK at Tynecastle?


 

 

A great chance for those who like it to step up to the plate...and explain why they do...???

 

they may prefer to hide in the shadows...

 

lets watch and observe!!! ?

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FinnBarr Saunders
8 hours ago, Tams bird said:

What has Sweet Caroline got to do with Hearts ? Couldn’t work that one out...

 

Neil Diamond wrote it about us after meeting an ex-captains wife many moons ago.

 

:thumbsup:

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Stupid Sexy Flanders
4 hours ago, 4marsbars said:

I simply don't get sectarianism, in life or in football. But a substantial minority of Hearts fans seem to like it. Maybe we need to understand why. 

 

There seem to be, for want of a better expression, a number of 'Hello, hello' apologists on here.

 

I'd like to ask them, or anyone else who is keen on that sort of thing:

 

- what are the good things about being sectarian?

- what they get out of it?

- why they like bringing their sectarianism to the game?

- what they think Hearts should do to encourage more sectarianism?


Can somebody please explain what is good about it, and why they think it is OK at Tynecastle?


 

 

Aye I was thinking that too, I'd like to see one of them come on & defend this pish. It's utter nonsense.

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