Hard Brexit

[Beni]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/06/ireland-hopes-side-deal-with-eu-could-allow-it-friction-free-trade-across-border

 

ROI seeking frictionless transportation of EU goods through UK.

 

 

I wonder what concessions the EU will offer in return.

[Cade]

The Irish proposal essentially just ignores the existence of the UK.

Goods are checked in France then don't get looked at again until they reach ROI.

 

Obviously this is only for goods bypassing the UK and not good ending up in the UK as their final destination, as those would still need to be stopped and checked.

 

Not sure how this will work. Will there be special "Irish trucks only" lanes at Customs?

[The Mighty Thor]

Baw Jaws and Rees Mogg ramping up the rhetoric again in the media. 

Still no one asks them the obvious question....show us your plan gents?

 

[Thunderstruck]

On 06/09/2018 at 21:42, Cade said:

The Irish proposal essentially just ignores the existence of the UK.

Goods are checked in France then don't get looked at again until they reach ROI.

 

Obviously this is only for goods bypassing the UK and not good ending up in the UK as their final destination, as those would still need to be stopped and checked.

 

Not sure how this will work. Will there be special "Irish trucks only" lanes at Customs?

 

TIR - Transport Internationaux Routiers. 

 

Although each EU Member State is a Contracting Party to the TIR Convention, the European Union is considered to be a single territory for the purposes of the TIR procedure. This means TIR can only be used in the Union for international movements, i. e. where the movement either starts or ends in a third country, or where the goods move between two or more EU Member States via the territory of a third country.

[Francis Albert]

I see in the latest instalment of Project Fear that the police fear and are preparing for civil unrest in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

I haven't yet seen any reference to their preparation for in my view more likely civil unrest if the vote to leave is negated by a second "people's vote" or a deal which is Brexit in name only.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I see in the latest instalment of Project Fear that the police fear and are preparing for civil unrest in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

I haven't yet seen any reference to their preparation for in my view more likely civil unrest if the vote to leave is negated by a second "people's vote" or a deal which is Brexit in name only.

Probably a sensible contingency plan. 

No one knows what the outcome will be and what thd short term impacts will bd on foodstuffs, medicines or more likely the carnage at points of entry at the UK border particularly in the south east of England. 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Probably a sensible contingency plan. 

No one knows what the outcome will be and what thd short term impacts will bd on foodstuffs, medicines or more likely the carnage at points of entry at the UK border particularly in the south east of England. 

"Carnage". As in the death of perishable foodstuffs?

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

"Carnage". As in the death of perishable foodstuffs?

Yes mate. That's it. 

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Yes mate. That's it. 

If the police forces are really devoting major resources to planning for the UK starving and French farmers going bankrupt as a result of Brexit it suggests to me the often  claimed under-resourcing of our police forces may be overstated.

[Dawnrazor]

Trouble on a greater or lesser degree is inevitable imo, if there's a "no deal" the remainers and the far left will kick off, if we stay in to any degree the brexiters and the far right will kick off. 

I'm not equating the remainers as all far left or the remainers as far right before anyone suggests that I am! 

But the extreme of both sides never seem to need a lot to smash up high streets at times. 

I really don't think the uk will be having food drops made by the UN or medicines will disappear in a few days. 

[Boris]

2 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Trouble on a greater or lesser degree is inevitable imo, if there's a "no deal" the remainers and the far left will kick off, if we stay in to any degree the brexiters and the far right will kick off. 

I'm not equating the remainers as all far left or the remainers as far right before anyone suggests that I am! 

But the extreme of both sides never seem to need a lot to smash up high streets at times. 

I really don't think the uk will be having food drops made by the UN or medicines will disappear in a few days. 

The far left will kick off? Hahaha. Don't you think the far left, as you put it, probably voted to leave too?

[AlphonseCapone]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I see in the latest instalment of Project Fear that the police fear and are preparing for civil unrest in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

I haven't yet seen any reference to their preparation for in my view more likely civil unrest if the vote to leave is negated by a second "people's vote" or a deal which is Brexit in name only.

 

I'm sure they would/will if that becomes a thing, right now it has no chance of happening, unlike a no-deal. 

[Dawnrazor]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

The far left will kick off? Hahaha. Don't you think the far left, as you put it, probably voted to leave too?

There's a far left hooligan eliment, as there's a far right hooligan eliment that'll kick of and riot at this sort of thing, I'm sure the far left have some leave voters, are you saying that all far left leaning people who voted voted to remain? 

[Boris]

6 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

There's a far left hooligan eliment, as there's a far right hooligan eliment that'll kick of and riot at this sort of thing, I'm sure the far left have some leave voters, are you saying that all far left leaning people who voted voted to remain? 

No, I was saying that on the far left, the likelihood is that they voted leave, hence my original comment about the far left probably voting leave too.

[Toggie88]

Sorry to pull this back to the larger topic but, what a ****ing mess eh?

 

Can’t help but think that if we didn’t have Trump in the White House providing cover with all of his nonsense, there would be a much stronger angst about the situation this side of the Atlantic. 

 

For me, there’s been a real failure of former politicians and statemen speaking out - all quite happy to forget about it and continue picking up ludicrous fees for 30 min speeches to investment bankers. All Blair can muster is an attack on his old party, unthinkable in any other situation especially considering the Tories are weaker than they were under Major. 

 

Meanwhile Corbyn is doing nothing because he really wants to the leave the EU and is hamstrung by an issue in his own party which should have been put to bed months ago. 

 

Whole of Westminster is a shit show. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Toggie88

[Norm]

People angry about some Brexit in name only deal can't really complain. They were asked if Britain should leave the EU. If we leave the EU, regardless of what deal is struck, then they've got what they voted for. I don't remember any part of the referendum question that clarified exactly how a UK outwith the EU would work. Not one person who voted in that referendum had any idea what it actually was they were voting for, other than the UK leaving the EU. Whether its in name only or not, if we're no longer a member, they got what they voted for. 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Normthebarman said:

People angry about some Brexit in name only deal can't really complain. They were asked if Britain should leave the EU. If we leave the EU, regardless of what deal is struck, then they've got what they voted for. I don't remember any part of the referendum question that clarified exactly how a UK outwith the EU would work. Not one person who voted in that referendum had any idea what it actually was they were voting for, other than the UK leaving the EU. Whether its in name only or not, if we're no longer a member, they got what they voted for. 

 

This in spades.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Normthebarman said:

People angry about some Brexit in name only deal can't really complain. They were asked if Britain should leave the EU. If we leave the EU, regardless of what deal is struck, then they've got what they voted for. I don't remember any part of the referendum question that clarified exactly how a UK outwith the EU would work. Not one person who voted in that referendum had any idea what it actually was they were voting for, other than the UK leaving the EU. Whether its in name only or not, if we're no longer a member, they got what they voted for. 

Sophistry. No-one who voted Leave voted to retain pretty much everything about being in the EU except the right of any representation in its institutions.

I supported Remain thinking there was some sort of meaningful choice in the referendum question. 

If it turns out that it really was just a complicated and expensive ploy to keep certain politicians and one party in particular in power I think all who voted deserve to feel they have been duped.

I don't remember the Remain campaign's assurances that it didn't matter too much because we will be leaving in name only.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Sophistry. No-one who voted Leave voted to retain pretty much everything about being in the EU except the right of any representation in its institutions.

I supported Remain thinking there was some sort of meaningful choice in the referendum question. 

If it turns out that it really was just a complicated and expensive ploy to keep certain politicians and one party in particular in power I think all who voted deserve to feel they have been duped.

I don't remember the Remain campaign's assurances that it didn't matter too much because we will be leaving in name only.

 

Isn't that the point though?  GIven that there was no definition of what leaving the EU actually meant.  

 

Norm's thinking is perfectly logical and valid, as it answers the referendum question.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you regards the reasons why this referendum was called, and even now there has been a result, those same reasons are trying to dictate what Brexit is supposed to mean.

 

This isn't about the "will of the people", rather the "will of the Tory Party".

 

 

[Cade]

200 days to go

 

Anybody got a clue what they're doing yet?

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Isn't that the point though?  GIven that there was no definition of what leaving the EU actually meant.  

 

Norm's thinking is perfectly logical and valid, as it answers the referendum question.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you regards the reasons why this referendum was called, and even now there has been a result, those same reasons are trying to dictate what Brexit is supposed to mean.

 

This isn't about the "will of the people", rather the "will of the Tory Party".

 

 

The Remain myth that those who voted Leave were thick racists and didn't know what they voted for is a major plank in the Remain "resistance". In fact, in contrast to multiple issue elections, the Leave voters had a clear idea of what they were voting for. Control of borders and immigration so that (for example) a foreign leader can't without consultation grant a million "refugees"  the right of entry to the UK. Freedom from the constraints of the Common Market which forces us to buy expensively from rich farmers rather than support poor farmers elsewhere. Courts independent of European law  (based on an entirely different legal system). Ability to decide what UK taxpayers money should be spent on rather than delegate to at best a weakly democratic EU.

 

 

[CJGJ]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Remain myth that those who voted Leave were thick racists and didn't know what they voted for is a major plank in the Remain "resistance". In fact, in contrast to multiple issue elections, the Leave voters had a clear idea of what they were voting for. Control of borders and immigration so that (for example) a foreign leader can't without consultation grant a million "refugees"  the right of entry to the UK. Freedom from the constraints of the Common Market which forces us to buy expensively from rich farmers rather than support poor farmers elsewhere. Courts independent of European law  (based on an entirely different legal system). Ability to decide what UK taxpayers money should be spent on rather than delegate to at best a weakly democratic EU.

 

 

They had no idea what they were voting for other than grand pie in the sky ideas that as we know were never going to come to fruition

 

They were lied to like us all  and I love the idea that you think we are somehow going to support poor farmers elsewhere.....what a load of rubbish....you and Boris must be close buddies in the truth department

Immigration..I must be missing the hundreds of thousands that came to the UK or was it that we said no under current rules and regulations like many other EU countries whilst some said yes...Germany for example

 

No sympathy for the leavers and lets hope they vote to be first out the door on principle when firms go belly up after all its what they voted for....will they ?

 

A good % of them have already passed on leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces and if there was a vote now Remain would be the clear choice

[The Mighty Thor]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Remain myth that those who voted Leave were thick racists and didn't know what they voted for is a major plank in the Remain "resistance". In fact, in contrast to multiple issue elections, the Leave voters had a clear idea of what they were voting for. Control of borders and immigration so that (for example) a foreign leader can't without consultation grant a million "refugees"  the right of entry to the UK. Freedom from the constraints of the Common Market which forces us to buy expensively from rich farmers rather than support poor farmers elsewhere. Courts independent of European law  (based on an entirely different legal system). Ability to decide what UK taxpayers money should be spent on rather than delegate to at best a weakly democratic EU.

 

 

Ah the 'poor' farmers. Funnily enough the majority voted leave to get away from all those pesky quality standards and regulations, but alas many forgot about the EU subsidies they receiveyear after year for, well nothing really. How are they going to bridge that shortfall? The money we give to Europe? Nah that's going to the NHS right?

I'm sure once the penny drops we'll hear them squeaking. 

[Francis Albert]

41 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah the 'poor' farmers. Funnily enough the majority voted leave to get away from all those pesky quality standards and regulations, but alas many forgot about the EU subsidies they receiveyear after year for, well nothing really. How are they going to bridge that shortfall? The money we give to Europe? Nah that's going to the NHS right?

I'm sure once the penny drops we'll hear them squeaking. 

I wasn't referring to British farmers but to farmers outside the EU who are denied fair access to European markets by the policies of the "rich mans club" of the EU. 

Also I wasn't suggesting leave voters were voting out of an altruistic concern for poor farmers outside the EU just that access to cheaper sources of food would incidentally benefit poor farmers outside the rich mans club.

[Victorian]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

200 days to go

 

Anybody got a clue what they're doing yet?

 

Not in the government or Tory Party.    The final conflict is just ramping up.    They're in complete and utter chaos and the hardline Brexiteers are determined to cause as much carnage as possible.

 

No deal is virtually certain.    The ERG and associated maniacs don't want ANY deal... simply to win a point.     The economy and population will suffer the consequences.     Tory hardliners will continue to be very wealthy.     **** everyone else.

[Dawnrazor]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Not in the government or Tory Party.    The final conflict is just ramping up.    They're in complete and utter chaos and the hardline Brexiteers are determined to cause as much carnage as possible.

 

No deal is virtually certain.    The ERG and associated maniacs don't want ANY deal... simply to win a point.     The economy and population will suffer the consequences.     Tory hardliners will continue to be very wealthy.     **** everyone else.

Sadly they can afford to, if there was anything like a credible opposition everyone in the Tory party would have to wnlind thier necks in, all this and Labour are how many points in front? I honestly don't think if there was a general election next week the Tories would loose, this is a sign of things to come unless Labour gets its house in order, government without opposition is a very dangerous thing. 

[The Mighty Thor]

17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I wasn't referring to British farmers but to farmers outside the EU who are denied fair access to European markets by the policies of the "rich mans club" of the EU. 

Also I wasn't suggesting leave voters were voting out of an altruistic concern for poor farmers outside the EU just that access to cheaper sources of food would incidentally benefit poor farmers outside the rich mans club.

Will this be one of the absolute plethora of free trade deals we've signed up with the economic powerhouses? Cheap spuds and cabbages. Great plan. 

With the frictionless borders we'll be able to get it here double quick too.  

 

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Will this be one of the absolute plethora of free trade deals we've signed up with the economic powerhouses? Cheap spuds and cabbages. Great plan. 

With the frictionless borders we'll be able to get it here double quick too.  

 

I voted leave mainly to see agricultural reforms, other things also but mainly agricultural reform, the trouble with "cheap" European Food imports is the standard of the food, the animal husbandry standards in some EU countries is well below ours, I want to see more money going to farmers, especially upland/Hill farmers go to help environmental improvement schemes rather than increasing or maintaining current stock, mainly sheep, numbers and the damage they are doing. 

I don't want to see meat from lower quality farms from abroad come into the UK, cheap meat on the shelves sells better no matter where it comes from it seems. 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I voted leave mainly to see agricultural reforms, other things also but mainly agricultural reform, the trouble with "cheap" European Food imports is the standard of the food, the animal husbandry standards in some EU countries is well below ours, I want to see more money going to farmers, especially upland/Hill farmers go to help environmental improvement schemes rather than increasing or maintaining current stock, mainly sheep, numbers and the damage they are doing. 

I don't want to see meat from lower quality farms from abroad come into the UK, cheap meat on the shelves sells better no matter where it comes from it seems. 

I had this conversation about standards with a farmer recently. He cited the supposed lower standards of European and third country farmers. His desire to leave was so that he could lower his standards ergo his costs. 

It's about making money and whilst I support your dreams of environmental improvement it ain't going to happen. The farmers will do less not more and we'll all suffer for it. 

[Norm]

I saw a headline the other day but put it down to sensationalist Remainers and didn't really look in to it. 

 

Did that Mogg felly really say that there should be no special treatment for EU citizens already here? As in, they shouldn't get to stay here as was previously said? Please tell me that's just anti-Brexit shit stirring. 

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I had this conversation about standards with a farmer recently. He cited the supposed lower standards of European and third country farmers. His desire to leave was so that he could lower his standards ergo his costs. 

It's about making money and whilst I support your dreams of environmental improvement it ain't going to happen. The farmers will do less not more and we'll all suffer for it. 

Some of the things I see in the uplands is why I stopped eating farmed meat, there are some good farmers but my god there are some in The Forest of Bowland where I live that would turn the whole country vegan!! 

A lot of the uplands are now sssi and therefore will still be controlled as damage to these areas will be punishable. 

The HLS schemes will end in 2020, one thing that is really boiling my piss it that a lot of Farmers have been getting grants to fence off burn sides and plant these areas, they've been planted to stabilise river sides, to provide food and cover for Black Grouse and other birds, farmers will now be able to open the gates or pull up the fences and graze sheep and cows again, undoing all the work and improvements that the puplic have paid for, the whole agri grant system in the UK is scandalous. 

[Victorian]

The PM is embarking on series of Downing Street dinners with Tory MPs to attempt to stop the Chequers plan from sinking.

 

Lovely.    Jolly boys/girls junkets all round.    

[Francis Albert]

49 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Will this be one of the absolute plethora of free trade deals we've signed up with the economic powerhouses? Cheap spuds and cabbages. Great plan. 

With the frictionless borders we'll be able to get it here double quick too.  

 

The free trade loving rich mens club doesn't allow its members to sign trade deals.

 

And cheap spuds and cabbages might reduce the need for food banks.

[Francis Albert]

40 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

I saw a headline the other day but put it down to sensationalist Remainers and didn't really look in to it. 

 

Did that Mogg felly really say that there should be no special treatment for EU citizens already here? As in, they shouldn't get to stay here as was previously said? Please tell me that's just anti-Brexit shit stirring. 

I read the article and yes Mogg did seem to say that EU nationals currently in the UK and UK nationals in the EU should not have special treatment, But then Mogg is Mogg and fortunately no-one in power in the UK or EU seems to agree with him. Nor I suspect do many Leave voters.

[The Mighty Thor]

19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The free trade loving rich mens club doesn't allow its members to sign trade deals.

 

And cheap spuds and cabbages might reduce the need for food banks.

A government focussing on delivering its manifesto and policies rather than religiously chasing economic folly on a twisted ideology would reduce the need for food banks. 

They're not doing the day job at all these days.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

 

 

Sensationalist headline.

 

He said EU migrants should be treated no differently from other migrants once we’ve left the EU. 

 

He’s been on record as saying that EU citizens who entered pre brexit should be given the same rights as U.K. citizens. Whilst the U.K. govt has guaranteed those rights even in the event of a no deal.

 

On reflection I think that is a more accurate description of what he said.

Certainly the UK's position seems to have been pretty clear on this throughout.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

 

Sensationalist headline.

 

He said EU migrants should be treated no differently from other migrants once we’ve left the EU. 

 

He’s been on record as saying that EU citizens who entered pre brexit should be given the same rights as U.K. citizens. Whilst the U.K. govt has guaranteed those rights even in the event of a no deal.

 

 

People would be less likely to make assumptions about the UK's position if the UK was less ambiguous.

 

The UK government has repeatedly made public statements that suggest they will offer some enhanced rights for EU citizens, but on closer inspection they have turned out to be qualified in some way, and they haven't been backed up by concrete proposals to the EU 27.

 

The issue was supposed to be addressed in the UK government's "technical notices" around August 23rd, but for some reason it wasn't.  Maybe it was dealt with subsequently and I just missed it.

 

In the absence of a definitive view from the British government, the EU 27 will make the most logical assumption which is that after Brexit the UK will treat EU citizens like any other "third country" citizens.

[The Mighty Thor]

Anyone read the Economists for Free Trade nonsense today.

It was a full house of complete Roger Hunts at the presser.

Mind you it's as close as the no deal brigade have come to mapping out any kind of cohesive plan.

It's utter bollocks of course.

[jake]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Anyone read the Economists for Free Trade nonsense today.

It was a full house of complete Roger Hunts at the presser.

Mind you it's as close as the no deal brigade have come to mapping out any kind of cohesive plan.

It's utter bollocks of course.

Not great and optimistic .

Much in keeping with the pessimistic mapping out of the future from anti brexit politicians.

Calm doon

[NANOJAMBO]

On 10/09/2018 at 20:35, Lord BJ said:

 

 

Sensationalist headline.

 

He said EU migrants should be treated no differently from other migrants once we’ve left the EU. 

 

He’s been on record as saying that EU citizens who entered pre brexit should be given the same rights as U.K. citizens. Whilst the U.K. govt has guaranteed those rights even in the event of a no deal.

 

That's fine : that's what a lot of people voted for.  As  a remainer I'm fine with that : but then no one ever talks about the UK immigrants to the EU.

What happens to them ? 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, jake said:

Not great and optimistic .

Much in keeping with the pessimistic mapping out of the future from anti brexit politicians.

Calm doon

It's not so much not great and optimistic, it's more that their plans are not viable or realistic, or as I put it last night, utter bollocks.

With roughly 6 months to go you'd hope that the hard Brexit mob would at least have come up with some realistic economic modelling of how the UK's economy will look under their stewardship?

Today we get to hear how they propose to deal with the Irish border. 

 

They're 0 for 1 with a swing and a miss so far.

 

[Pans Jambo]

On 10/09/2018 at 08:57, Toggie88 said:

Sorry to pull this back to the larger topic but, what a ****ing mess eh?

 

Can’t help but think that if we didn’t have Trump in the White House providing cover with all of his nonsense, there would be a much stronger angst about the situation this side of the Atlantic. 

 

For me, there’s been a real failure of former politicians and statemen speaking out - all quite happy to forget about it and continue picking up ludicrous fees for 30 min speeches to investment bankers. All Blair can muster is an attack on his old party, unthinkable in any other situation especially considering the Tories are weaker than they were under Major. 

 

Meanwhile Corbyn is doing nothing because he really wants to the leave the EU and is hamstrung by an issue in his own party which should have been put to bed months ago. 

 

Whole of Westminster is a shit show. 

 

 

Correct. 

Time to leave them to it IMO. 

[Toggie88]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Correct. 

Time to leave them to it IMO. 

Has your view been changed because of brexit, out of interest? 

 

Might be be getting you confused but I thought you were an ardent No voter in 2014 - I could be wrong. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Toggie88 said:

Has your view been changed because of brexit, out of interest? 

 

Might be be getting you confused but I thought you were an ardent No voter in 2014 - I could be wrong. 

Hated Westminster since the days of Thatcher. 

 

This last lot have only strengthened my resolve. 

[Victorian]

So it seems the end is nigh for weak&wobbly.     The hardliner Brexitlunatics,   mainly the ERG,  are about to give her the chop,    instigating yet more chaos and intransigence for negotiations.

 

Incidentally,    these ERG clowns are partly public funded.     Over a million pounds per annum of public money is spent on the maniacal plottings of a group of people who have no interest in the future of the economy and the people who will feel the effects.

 

What a wonderful democracy we have.

[maroonlegions]

Sneaky.

 

 

Tories strip 'right to equality' from EU withdrawal Bill

 

THELONDONECONOMIC.COM

 

 

The Conservative party narrowly voted against Labour's bid to retain EU human rights measures in UK law post-Brexit last night by 311 votes to 301. Just one Conservative MP, Ken Clarke, defied the Government whip and voted for

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 10/09/2018 at 14:47, Boris said:

 

Isn't that the point though?  GIven that there was no definition of what leaving the EU actually meant.  

 

Norm's thinking is perfectly logical and valid, as it answers the referendum question.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you regards the reasons why this referendum was called, and even now there has been a result, those same reasons are trying to dictate what Brexit is supposed to mean.

 

This isn't about the "will of the people", rather the "will of the Tory Party".

 

 

 

Did you not listen to Cameron and Osborne or read the propaganda sent at tax payers expense to every home in the UK? It and they made it perfectly clear that out meant out of everything.

[Boris]

59 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Did you not listen to Cameron and Osborne or read the propaganda sent at tax payers expense to every home in the UK? It and they made it perfectly clear that out meant out of everything.

Which iirc was labelled as scaremongering? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

43 minutes ago, Boris said:

Which iirc was labelled as scaremongering? 

 

And it was. Everything was worst case scenario doom and gloom. And yet leave still won the vote. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Seymour M Hersh

[Boris]

10 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And it was. Everything was worst case scenario doom and gloom. And yet leave still won the vote. 

They did, and such is life. I genuinely wish I shared your optimism about Brexit, and I genuinely hope any misgivings I have are proven false.