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Genuine question : are Leveins days numbered?


gavinderbayne

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15 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Well in Scotland both McInnes and Wright have won domestic trophies, something that Levein has not even come close to achieving. 

He came pretty clise when his yeam won the Scottish cup season he left to take the Scotland job. However, I would prefer McInnes to be our manager. Not so sure about Wright or Yogi, who won a domestic trophy as well. 

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23 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

He came pretty clise when his yeam won the Scottish cup season he left to take the Scotland job. However, I would prefer McInnes to be our manager. Not so sure about Wright or Yogi, who won a domestic trophy as well. 

 

From memory Levein took the Scotland job in December 2009 - before the Scottish Cup DU won had started.

 

He gets credit for building the team, however it was Peter Houston who took them through that winning cup run.  Who knows if DU would have won the cup under Leveins brand of negative cup football.

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3 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

And replace him with who? 

 

What if no one applies? What would Mitch Budge do? 

 

Aye it's as clear as mud :lol: 

What if no-one applies??? Are you for real??  We would be inundated with applications as long as we made it  clear that they were in sole charge of the first team and could bring their own coaches. 

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10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What if no-one applies??? Are you for real??  We would be inundated with applications as long as we made it  clear that they were in sole charge of the first team and could bring their own coaches. 

 

NAILED IT!!

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Captain America

Some raw stats from his 10 games in charge.

 

3 wins out of 10 = 30% win rate

12 points out of 30.

5 points from our 5 'home' games and 7 points from our 5 away games.

10 goals scored 

12 goals conceded

 

Compared with 1st 10 games of Ian Cathro in charge

 

4 wins out of 10 = 40% win rate

10 points out of 24. 

7 points from our 4 home games and 3 points from our 4 away games.

19 goals scored

15 goals conceded.

 

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11 hours ago, bobskeldon said:

If it was a new manager coming in (who wanted the job) and was trying to sort out, stabilise or "turn things around", the answer is no. However, this is not the case with CL! Firstly he didn't want the job and said as much many times, if he did he could have saved a few folk a lot of time during the 'interview' process! Secondly, As someone who oversees ALL footballing matters, CL is not trying to sort out the previous manger's mess, it's HIS mess. Therefore, CL has not had a few months, he has had much, much longer....sadly!

 

I know some like to think Levein has been managing the team all this time but he hasn’t. So he is a new manager, albeit an internal appointment which is what the club favours anyhow.

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Cory McNamara
10 hours ago, bobskeldon said:

What if your horse can't swim?????

 

Interesting question. Most of them are good swimmers - even some first-timers are able to do it without panic. From what I know you should keep the young ones near the older ones - not too close, if you want to prevent climbing. In most cases your horse will show you when something is uncomfortable.

If the situation is critical - fish them out. 

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5 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

 

No need for an apology. We're all frustrated and just want Hearts to do better. 

 

Correct mate.

 

my personal opinion is we should not chase CL out of the door.

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3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What if no-one applies??? Are you for real??  We would be inundated with applications as long as we made it  clear that they were in sole charge of the first team and could bring their own coaches. 

So in summary, you want to bin the strategy that's been in force for 4 years in favour of the one that really didn't worked very well for us for the previous 130 years?

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44 minutes ago, C-3PO said:

Some raw stats from his 10 games in charge.

 

3 wins out of 10 = 30% win rate

12 points out of 30.

5 points from our 5 'home' games and 7 points from our 5 away games.

10 goals scored 

12 goals conceded

 

Compared with 1st 10 games of Ian Cathro in charge

 

4 wins out of 10 = 40% win rate

10 points out of 24. 

7 points from our 4 home games and 3 points from our 4 away games.

19 goals scored

15 goals conceded.

 

Eye opening....   

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1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

So in summary, you want to bin the strategy that's been in force for 4 years in favour of the one that really didn't worked very well for us for the previous 130 years?

Has Levein got some sort of hypnotical hold over some of our fans?? Yes, in summary I certainly want to bin the HMFC & Sons, plumber style management structure in favour of one that allows a PROPER manager full control over the first team. Just to remind you that Craig Levein has not been involved in any  of our successful glorious trophy winning teams over our illustrious 143 year history.

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12 hours ago, RudiHMFC said:

If Levein cared about Hearts like he'd claim he does he'd **** off and allow us to be free of his stranglehold of the club. We're bigger than him and we all deserve better, even the ones who have been hypnotized by his 'vision' and don't know what's good for you. 

 

The longer he stays the more the rot sets in and more damage is done in the long term.

 

:lol:

 

What a meltdown. I don’t want him to go anywhere, thanks. You don’t speak for the support Rudi. :thumbsup:

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6 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

And if none of your suggested names applies for the job?

Oh get a life will you. 

If the sun doesn't rise tomorrow.

If Martians attack.

If Hibs win the league.

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5 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Oh get a life will you. 

If the sun doesn't rise tomorrow.

If Martians attack.

If Hibs win the league.

If you don’t appear on nearly every thread slagging Levein 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

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Levein must be feeling the heat as he came out today and said he'd make changes to the team in january.

He said we need a Left Back, A Scoring Midfielder & A Wide Pacey Forward.

 

Latest Breaking News

 

Levein says players will have to leave before signings are made.

 

NOW THERE'S A KICK IN THE TEETH FOR THE FANS. Who would want the players we want to empty.

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5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

If you don’t appear on nearly every thread slagging Levein 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The vast majority of posts are replies my wee pal.

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20 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

:lol:

 

What a meltdown. I don’t want him to go anywhere, thanks. You don’t speak for the support Rudi. :thumbsup:

 

Absolutely not, but folk who can see things as clear as me will agree, others who want to stick their head in the sand won't. Nothing gets better until he goes my friend, you'll never believe me but it's true.

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4 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Levein must be feeling the heat as he came out today and said he'd make changes to the team in january.

He said we need a Left Back, A Scoring Midfielder & A Wide Pacey Forward.

 

Latest Breaking News

 

Levein says players will have to leave before signings are made.

 

NOW THERE'S A KICK IN THE TEETH FOR THE FANS. Who would want the players we want to empty.

He said it last week as well but you clearly missedit. He is aware of what’s needed. His thoughts are consistent with most of the comments posted on here re what’s needed. His only challenge is to find most of the missing parts in January and possibly next summer. 

 

Re players leaving, two loanees will leave, four other first team non-academy players have contracts ending next summer. They will almost certainly leave in January. Hughes will retire for one i suspect. It won’t be difficult to move people on . Lots of clubs like us desperate for new blood. Look at us last January for perfect example of what happens every January at many clubs. More managers sacked in Britain at this stage this season than last. They are all looking for players in January. It’s only the big clubs trying to sign big players that find it difficult in January. 

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4 minutes ago, RudiHMFC said:

 

Absolutely not, but folk who can see things as clear as me will agree, others who want to stick their head in the sand won't. Nothing gets better until he goes my friend, you'll never believe me but it's true.

 

:lol:

 

kay m8

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People are talking about Levein's stranglehold of the club and rot setting in etc but he came in at the start of the Championship season...and we destroyed it. Next season back in the top flight we finished third. Is this stuff not to be mentioned ? Surely we wouldn't have achieved any of that if he was a plum !

 

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I only want what's best for Hearts, not really bothered about winding people up or that but it's almost too obvious that he needs to go, Cathro disaster was the time to freshen it up, ditch the DoF, let someone else come in and try and bring a bit of life back to the team and support, instead we just stay the same and continue on the path of misery.

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1 hour ago, Boab said:

People are talking about Levein's stranglehold of the club and rot setting in etc but he came in at the start of the Championship season...and we destroyed it. Next season back in the top flight we finished third. Is this stuff not to be mentioned ? Surely we wouldn't have achieved any of that if he was a plum !

 

 

Of course he has to take credit for that but so to does Robbie. If the chat on here is to be believed and Levein does not pick and sign the players then it is mainly down to Robbie for our sucess in gaining promotion.

 

But then if Levein is to be credited with a big hand in that sucess then surely he has to take a big chunk of the flak for the abject failure that has been at the club in the last year?

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8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Of course he has to take credit for that but so to does Robbie. If the chat on here is to be believed and Levein does not pick and sign the players then it is mainly down to Robbie for our sucess in gaining promotion.

 

But then if Levein is to be credited with a big hand in that sucess then surely he has to take a big chunk of the flak for the abject failure that has been at the club in the last year?

 

:rofl:

 

outstanding.

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9 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

Of course he has to take credit for that but so to does Robbie. If the chat on here is to be believed and Levein does not pick and sign the players then it is mainly down to Robbie for our sucess in gaining promotion.

 

But then if Levein is to be credited with a big hand in that sucess then surely he has to take a big chunk of the flak for the abject failure that has been at the club in the last year?

 

Em....so he is or he isn't ?

If the chat, as you call it, is to be believed, then everything from the 9th Sept this year is his fault, no ?

Everything before it, the coaches fault ?

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Bazzas right boot

Aye, he'll be sacked Tommorrow before kick off and a raffle sponsored by jkb will be drawn at half time to determine the new manager.

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Bazzas right boot
6 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

Em....so he is or he isn't ?

If the chat, as you call it, is to be believed, then everything from the 9th Sept this year is his fault, no ?

Everything before it, the coaches fault ?

 

Said this several times, he either gets credit for everything from day one and the poor stuff, or it's the head coaches accountability.

 

Folk like to blame him for the past year, but nothing before ( off and on the field).

 

Imo, the head coach takes most of the praise/ criticism for the football side, that includes cl now.

 

Folk wanting Thier cake and to eat it as my gran used to say.

Makes it easy to identify the cl haters, tho.

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1 hour ago, Boab said:

 

Em....so he is or he isn't ?

If the chat, as you call it, is to be believed, then everything from the 9th Sept this year is his fault, no ?

Everything before it, the coaches fault ?

 

I thought it was quite simple to understand my point but from your reply it would appear not as you have not grasped my point.

 

Ryder obviously gets it but I'm not going to try and elaborate as I think it would only result in a foray of posts back and forwards between us getting nowhere.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I thought it was quite simple to understand my point but from your reply it would appear not as you have not grasped my point.

 

Ryder obviously gets it but I'm not going to try and elaborate as I think it would only result in a foray of posts back and forwards between us getting nowhere.

 

 

 

The problem is you gave two points. I'm unsure as to which one to grasp !

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Generic Username

Think the Cathro comparison stats are slightly out, I'd imagine that's due to them probably including Scottish Cup games. As a straight first 10 league game comparison it sits more like;

 

Cathro

Won : 3

Lost : 5

Drawn : 2

Scored : 15

Conceded : 15

 

Home Form : DWLWD (8 points from 15)

Away Form : LLLWL (3 points from 15)

 

Levein

Won : 4

Lost : 3

Drawn : 3

Scored : 10

Conceded : 11

 

Home and away form isn't really a "fair" comparison given the Murrayfield situation, but effectively there's not much difference between them. Both have been fairly painful to endure, with the slimmest of enjoyable moments in those 20 games. It's been some 12 months...

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14 hours ago, Ryder said:

 

:lol:

 

What a meltdown. I don’t want him to go anywhere, thanks. You don’t speak for the support Rudi. :thumbsup:

 

With the greatest respect, neither do you Ryder.

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14 hours ago, Boab said:

People are talking about Levein's stranglehold of the club and rot setting in etc but he came in at the start of the Championship season...and we destroyed it. Next season back in the top flight we finished third. Is this stuff not to be mentioned ? Surely we wouldn't have achieved any of that if he was a plum !

 

 

But...but....he wasn't picking Robbie's team or choosing Robbie's transfer targets..........

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14 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Has Levein got some sort of hypnotical hold over some of our fans?? Yes, in summary I certainly want to bin the HMFC & Sons, plumber style management structure in favour of one that allows a PROPER manager full control over the first team. Just to remind you that Craig Levein has not been involved in any  of our successful glorious trophy winning teams over our illustrious 143 year history.

 

Well said Enzo!

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8 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

But...but....he wasn't picking Robbie's team or choosing Robbie's transfer targets..........

 

I don't know, was he ? Or Cathro's for that matter ?

 

I can understand the criticism of the state of our football at present, all I alluded to earlier was, if we are to criticise Levein, let's look at his whole tenure rather than a third of it.

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40 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

I don't know, was he ? Or Cathro's for that matter ?

 

I can understand the criticism of the state of our football at present, all I alluded to earlier was, if we are to criticise Levein, let's look at his whole tenure rather than a third of it.

 

If Levein did not pick the team, did not dictate tactics, and did not make the transfer selections, then the credit for winning the Championship and finishing 3rd is all Robbie's surely.

 

If (as some suggest) Levein did pick the team, dictate tactics, and select the transfer targets, then a large slice of credit must go to him.

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1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

With the greatest respect, neither do you Ryder.

 

Indeed. I’m not the one doing so though. See the post I quoted for details. :thumbsup:

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16 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Has Levein got some sort of hypnotical hold over some of our fans?? Yes, in summary I certainly want to bin the HMFC & Sons, plumber style management structure in favour of one that allows a PROPER manager full control over the first team. Just to remind you that Craig Levein has not been involved in any  of our successful glorious trophy winning teams over our illustrious 143 year history.

 

This is where I am on the matter. 

 

I’ve not read the thread but I fear myself that we won’t see the above happen until the FOH take over & decide to bin the director of football role. 

 

Thats a long way way to go before we get shot of Levein & that really depresses me on the Hearts front just now. 

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29 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

If Levein did not pick the team, did not dictate tactics, and did not make the transfer selections, then the credit for winning the Championship and finishing 3rd is all Robbie's surely.

 

If (as some suggest) Levein did pick the team, dictate tactics, and select the transfer targets, then a large slice of credit must go to him.

Very black and white view. Levein selected Robbie from left field. Any credit for that?

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3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Very black and white view. Levein selected Robbie from left field. Any credit for that?

 

 

Yes good point - he is due some credit for that appointment.

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portobellojambo1
15 hours ago, Boab said:

People are talking about Levein's stranglehold of the club and rot setting in etc but he came in at the start of the Championship season...and we destroyed it. Next season back in the top flight we finished third. Is this stuff not to be mentioned ? Surely we wouldn't have achieved any of that if he was a plum !

 

 

In the first year of the 5 year plan we started off in The Championship Boab. We watched football that season which everyone enjoyed, both the fans and the players. We came back up to the top league and that all changed, instead of looking to try and beat the opposition it appeared that our focus turned to trying not to lose to them, and in the course effectively sacrificing an attacking game that had brought so much success. Lets look at this logically and without Maroon and White specs on. It was a 5 year plan, with the hope that we would progress each year. We are in year 4 and some people are saying on various threads, rightly or wrongly, that we may have to put up with the absolute shit on the park at the moment for another 2 or 3 years. The football, without putting any sort of spin on it, has been generally fecking awful to watch, and not just since December of 2016. How would you feel, how would anyone feel, if at the end of the 5th year of the plan Heart of Midlothian are playing their football back in the Championship, where the cycle started. And lets not for one second think it isn't possible, because it most certainly is. In recent games versus Dundee, Kilmarnock and Partick, three of the teams below us in the league, we have managed to scrape together 1 point from 9. We have no God given right to retain a position in the top league, that position will be gained by what does and doesn't happen on the park. There is also a danger that crowds will plummet if we continue to produce little on the football side, which in turn will impact on finance coming into the club. Sometimes, we do look at things with a sort of "that cannot happen to us, we are Hearts" sort of attitude. If you wanted to you could also include not losing to Hibs within that sort of attitude, but over the last 2/3 years we have seen we can lose to Hibs, and regularly. I think anyone who thinks there is no chance of us potentially returning to the Championship is misleading themselves, and the whole happy, very successful,  5 year plan will have us back where it all started, and still looking for progress on the park if it does happen.

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6 minutes ago, Craigieboy said:

 

This is where I am on the matter. 

 

I’ve not read the thread but I fear myself that we won’t see the above happen until the FOH take over & decide to bin the director of football role. 

 

Thats a long way way to go before we get shot of Levein & that really depresses me on the Hearts front just now. 

 

I don't see too much changing when FoH take over as i feel it will be structured to stop the mob from making choices. However i think we're a long way off this even happening as I believe Budge is enjoying the role and believe she'll have an extended period in charge.

 

In regards to the DOF I've not got an issue with what we want to do in principal, certainly on paper the structure makes sense, however it's clear that it's not really been working and there's a blind reluctance to change it.

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6 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

In the first year of the 5 year plan we started off in The Championship Boab. We watched football that season which everyone enjoyed, both the fans and the players. We came back up to the top league and that all changed, instead of looking to try and beat the opposition it appeared that our focus turned to trying not to lose to them, and in the course effectively sacrificing an attacking game that had brought so much success. Lets look at this logically and without Maroon and White specs on. It was a 5 year plan, with the hope that we would progress each year. We are in year 4 and some people are saying on various threads, rightly or wrongly, that we may have to put up with the absolute shit on the park at the moment for another 2 or 3 years. The football, without putting any sort of spin on it, has been generally fecking awful to watch, and not just since December of 2016. How would you feel, how would anyone feel, if at the end of the 5th year of the plan Heart of Midlothian are playing their football back in the Championship, where the cycle started. And lets not for one second think it isn't possible, because it most certainly is. In recent games versus Dundee, Kilmarnock and Partick, three of the teams below us in the league, we have managed to scrape together 1 point from 9. We have no God given right to retain a position in the top league, that position will be gained by what does and doesn't happen on the park. There is also a danger that crowds will plummet if we continue to produce little on the football side, which in turn will impact on finance coming into the club. Sometimes, we do look at things with a sort of "that cannot happen to us, we are Hearts" sort of attitude. If you wanted to you could also include not losing to Hibs within that sort of attitude, but over the last 2/3 years we have seen we can lose to Hibs, and regularly. I think anyone who thinks there is no chance of us potentially returning to the Championship is misleading themselves, and the whole happy, very successful,  5 year plan will have us back where it all started, and still looking for progress on the park if it does happen.

 

First class post and sums up the feelings (and concerns) of very many Hearts fans.

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15 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

In the first year of the 5 year plan we started off in The Championship Boab. We watched football that season which everyone enjoyed, both the fans and the players. We came back up to the top league and that all changed, instead of looking to try and beat the opposition it appeared that our focus turned to trying not to lose to them, and in the course effectively sacrificing an attacking game that had brought so much success. Lets look at this logically and without Maroon and White specs on. It was a 5 year plan, with the hope that we would progress each year. We are in year 4 and some people are saying on various threads, rightly or wrongly, that we may have to put up with the absolute shit on the park at the moment for another 2 or 3 years. The football, without putting any sort of spin on it, has been generally fecking awful to watch, and not just since December of 2016. How would you feel, how would anyone feel, if at the end of the 5th year of the plan Heart of Midlothian are playing their football back in the Championship, where the cycle started. And lets not for one second think it isn't possible, because it most certainly is. In recent games versus Dundee, Kilmarnock and Partick, three of the teams below us in the league, we have managed to scrape together 1 point from 9. We have no God given right to retain a position in the top league, that position will be gained by what does and doesn't happen on the park. There is also a danger that crowds will plummet if we continue to produce little on the football side, which in turn will impact on finance coming into the club. Sometimes, we do look at things with a sort of "that cannot happen to us, we are Hearts" sort of attitude. If you wanted to you could also include not losing to Hibs within that sort of attitude, but over the last 2/3 years we have seen we can lose to Hibs, and regularly. I think anyone who thinks there is no chance of us potentially returning to the Championship is misleading themselves, and the whole happy, very successful,  5 year plan will have us back where it all started, and still looking for progress on the park if it does happen.

 

Cant really argue against a word of that to be honest - that's the harsh reality of where we're at just now.

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13 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

In the first year of the 5 year plan we started off in The Championship Boab. We watched football that season which everyone enjoyed, both the fans and the players. We came back up to the top league and that all changed, instead of looking to try and beat the opposition it appeared that our focus turned to trying not to lose to them, and in the course effectively sacrificing an attacking game that had brought so much success. Lets look at this logically and without Maroon and White specs on. It was a 5 year plan, with the hope that we would progress each year. We are in year 4 and some people are saying on various threads, rightly or wrongly, that we may have to put up with the absolute shit on the park at the moment for another 2 or 3 years. The football, without putting any sort of spin on it, has been generally fecking awful to watch, and not just since December of 2016. How would you feel, how would anyone feel, if at the end of the 5th year of the plan Heart of Midlothian are playing their football back in the Championship, where the cycle started. And lets not for one second think it isn't possible, because it most certainly is. In recent games versus Dundee, Kilmarnock and Partick, three of the teams below us in the league, we have managed to scrape together 1 point from 9. We have no God given right to retain a position in the top league, that position will be gained by what does and doesn't happen on the park. There is also a danger that crowds will plummet if we continue to produce little on the football side, which in turn will impact on finance coming into the club. Sometimes, we do look at things with a sort of "that cannot happen to us, we are Hearts" sort of attitude. If you wanted to you could also include not losing to Hibs within that sort of attitude, but over the last 2/3 years we have seen we can lose to Hibs, and regularly. I think anyone who thinks there is no chance of us potentially returning to the Championship is misleading themselves, and the whole happy, very successful,  5 year plan will have us back where it all started, and still looking for progress on the park if it does happen.

A decent analysis on the period up to Decemeber 2016.  Then the post gets lost in this idea that we have a split support of two categories, totally unhappy with current regime or head buried in sand.  The reality is that not one Hearts fan believes for a minute that we are immune to any outcome in this league.  Failure to win the next 2 games will see us dragged into the pit of the table.  While I agree the football right now is gash I think we have the right guy in charge to turn it around.   If not then we will have more than the 5 year plan to worry about.  

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35 minutes ago, Craigieboy said:

 

This is where I am on the matter. 

 

I’ve not read the thread but I fear myself that we won’t see the above happen until the FOH take over & decide to bin the director of football role. 

 

Thats a long way way to go before we get shot of Levein & that really depresses me on the Hearts front just now. 

FoH are already on the Hearts board. Are their reps clamouring for Craig to be dismissed?

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1 minute ago, TexasAndy said:

A decent analysis on the period up to Decemeber 2016.  Then the post gets lost in this idea that we have a split support of two categories, totally unhappy with current regime or head buried in sand.  The reality is that not one Hearts fan believes for a minute that we are immune to any outcome in this league.  Failure to win the next 2 games will see us dragged into the pit of the table.  While I agree the football right now is gash I think we have the right guy in charge to turn it around.   If not then we will have more than the 5 year plan to worry about.  

 

I can assure you, there are PLENTY of folk on here alone who seem to think we ARE immune to certain things.

 

You see it on a daily basis with folk living in the clouds on here.

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16 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said:

 

I don't see too much changing when FoH take over as i feel it will be structured to stop the mob from making choices. However i think we're a long way off this even happening as I believe Budge is enjoying the role and believe she'll have an extended period in charge.

 

In regards to the DOF I've not got an issue with what we want to do in principal, certainly on paper the structure makes sense, however it's clear that it's not really been working and there's a blind reluctance to change it.

 

Ann will only be in the role as long as she’s the owner. 

 

Once she’s paid back in full it’ll be up to her & the new owners (FOH) if she stays on in some capacity. 

 

Re the mob making choices, I firmly believe that the wider support should have a say in how management is structured. I’m not saying that they should get a say in every minute detail but basically whether or not we go with a DOF or other management structure. 

 

Leveins days are numbered. But not while Ann is still in charge. 

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