Genuine question : are Leveins days numbered?

[rudi must stay]

Levein will do well to turn around all this negativity. I think if we stuck with him he'd do a solid job but it's possibly a case of doomed from the start

[Hendricks]

2 minutes ago, jockmac said:

Funny how people see things differently. Hendricks comes across as a real honest Hearts man, who cares deeply for his team, sorry, don’t see that as tearing it to bits.

 

Just tells it like it is, top poster for me, knows his stuff and is bang on about Hearts football wise.

 

 

 

Appreciate the compliment thanks. Anyone who knows me knows my deep rooted, indoctrination to Hearts. From a young age they've dominated my thoughts, my time and my life in general. As I've got older I've realised that there are 'some' bigger things but I very much doubt there will come a day when Hearts aren't an extremely intregal part of my soul. If I'm pissed off and angry at where we are right now, how badly we've been run despite the historic efforts an commitment of our support it's because I genuinely and passionately believe we deserve better. I don't care about "this has always been the case". It damn well shouldn't be the case. We are an underachieving shambles right now and for every positive off the park, for every solid decision made in that regard it's been offset by the gash we've witnessed on it. The second Budgement Day is now coming, 20/21 January 2018 will define all on field success of this regime. Neilson historically became the first Hearts head coach to witness a Hibs Scottish Cup parade and we lost to them again last season. To lose to Hibs AGAIN after them also overseeing the worst European result in our history and the League Cup embarrassment of the summer would cement their names in infamy. Would collectively be the worst big game results in our 140+ years. 

[socrates82]

21 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

Appreciate the compliment thanks. Anyone who knows me knows my deep rooted, indoctrination to Hearts. From a young age they've dominated my thoughts, my time and my life in general. As I've got older I've realised that there are 'some' bigger things but I very much doubt there will come a day when Hearts aren't an extremely intregal part of my soul. If I'm pissed off and angry at where we are right now, how badly we've been run despite the historic efforts an commitment of our support it's because I genuinely and passionately believe we deserve better. I don't care about "this has always been the case". It damn well shouldn't be the case. We are an underachieving shambles right now and for every positive off the park, for every solid decision made in that regard it's been offset by the gash we've witnessed on it. The second Budgement Day is now coming, 20/21 January 2018 will define all on field success of this regime. Neilson historically became the first Hearts head coach to witness a Hibs Scottish Cup parade and we lost to them again last season. To lose to Hibs AGAIN after them also overseeing the worst European result in our history and the League Cup embarrassment of the summer would cement their names in infamy. Would collectively be the worst big game results in our 140+ years. 

 

If you've supported Hearts for as long and as loyally as you say then you should really be able to cope with, what is it now, eight poor months (Jan-May and July to now?)? And yes I know you were one of the Robbie Oot mob who seems to think we were doing badly with him in charge, but I choose not to believe any Hearts fan - especially one who has apparently followed the club for so long - could genuinely believe finishing 3rd and being on track for 3rd again was a negative thing.

 

Name the decade and I'll throw out several worse 8 months than we're having now. Plus worse derby defeats, plus more embarrassing runs of form, plus worse players, plus worse managers. People respond to you and others in very negative ways because your negativity is way over the top.

 

The common thread in all of the over-the-top negative posters on here at least and some at Tynecastle is a deep dislike for Levein some folk have developed. I honestly don't know why and it is genuinely weird behaviour from some in particular. I include people like Michael Stewart and Gary Mackay in that, as they seem to hold grudges. It's funny though that someone like Gary Locke who was actually sacked by Levein doesn't.

 

I idolised Levein as a player, initially liked him as a manager and then got fed up with him in charge. As a DoF I liked him initially and now have doubts that Scotland is the right country for his vision. As a manager again I think he doesn't seem to have the required passion and motivation for the job, which is a worry. However he has proven managerial skills and is a smart guy, so I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he can pull himself and the team together. Time will tell.

 

With the run of home games coming up he has a very favourable fixture list to do it with.

 

But he's not a miracle worker and our squad is in poor shape, which tends to happen when you have a lot of managerial changes in a short period - yet another reason why no-one should be calling for his head yet or even if we lose the cup tie.

[jockmac]

19 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

Appreciate the compliment thanks. Anyone who knows me knows my deep rooted, indoctrination to Hearts. From a young age they've dominated my thoughts, my time and my life in general. As I've got older I've realised that there are 'some' bigger things but I very much doubt there will come a day when Hearts aren't an extremely intregal part of my soul. If I'm pissed off and angry at where we are right now, how badly we've been run despite the historic efforts an commitment of our support it's because I genuinely and passionately believe we deserve better. I don't care about "this has always been the case". It damn well shouldn't be the case. We are an underachieving shambles right now and for every positive off the park, for every solid decision made in that regard it's been offset by the gash we've witnessed on it. The second Budgement Day is now coming, 20/21 January 2018 will define all on field success of this regime. Neilson historically became the first Hearts head coach to witness a Hibs Scottish Cup parade and we lost to them again last season. To lose to Hibs AGAIN after them also overseeing the worst European result in our history and the League Cup embarrassment of the summer would cement their names in infamy. Would collectively be the worst big game results in our 140+ years. 

Totally get where your coming from and share your frustration. Nothing wrong with a winners mentality and deep dislike of underachieving.

 

[Spencer]

3 minutes ago, jockmac said:

Totally get where your coming from and share your frustration. Nothing wrong with a winners mentality and deep dislike of underachieving.

 

Indeed. Would be good to see a bit more of it rather than routinely accept mediocrity that we are entrenched in at this time 

 

Two very big months ahead for thd club 

[merseyjambo]

4 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Ross County - already beaten them this season

Hamilton - already beaten them this season

Motherwell - unlucky to lose to them at Fir Park

Dundee - outplayed them at Dens, gave away two shocking goals, should havewon 3/4 - 0

Celtic - someones got to beat them

st Johnstone - already beaten them this season

Hibs - they very rarely win at Tynecastle

Aberdeen - we were by far the better of the two teams earlier this season 

 

Amazing how facts beat your speculation isnt it?

 

Ross County - we got them early in Coyles tenure and they’ve improved since he took charge

Hamilton - unpredictable. Who would have thought they’d get results at The Methodrome, Castle Greyskull and a decent result against Aberdeen

Motherwell - Don’t know what game you watched but we were well beaten at Fir Park. Much better midfield and striking options than we have

Dundee - should beat them

Celtic - You’re having a laugh aren’t you. Someone may beat them but at the moment, it’s definately not us unless their first team goes down with dysentery

St Johnstone - our recent record at McDermaid is poor

Hibs - no comment

Aberdeen - again another ground where we have a poor recent record

 

Its the great thing about spin doctors, you can twist the facts to suit whatever you want them to. 

 

For all all the pro Levein camp out there, how many points out of 24 do you realistically think we can get from these games. 

 

Personally, I can’t see us getting more than 12 points from these games but my fear with the way we are playing and low on confidence, it will be between 6 & 8. 

 

I dont know any Hearts fan out there who wants the club to go on a bad run or play poorly but there are warning bells sounding at the moment. He’s almost a part time manager. He doesn’t get the players until Thursday. What good is that. It’s shambolic and smacks of disinterest. How many other SPL managers do you think only work with the team a couple of days a week. He’s getting his boot room system in via the back door. 

 

Fans will always have differing opinions and thoughts. It doesn’t mean they hate the club or want to tear it apart but more they have concerns they are voicing over the way the club they love is being run. Football is ultimately a results driven business and when results are going against you with a backdrop of by enlarge poor football, they have the right to voice concerns. It doesn’t make them an Uber fan or a hater. Too many people on here who want CL and believe in him to be the manager he was 14 years ago are too willing to name call people who question the way he is performing in his role at the club. They have the right to wonder what influence he had there in his role as DOF. We all want the same thing. Success at the club we love. 

 

When we came out of administration, I was happy for CL to be on board. I didn’t think the moneyball system was a good idea, especially when you have a limited budget like ours where your signings shouldn’t be a gamble. We got lucky with Sow and he’s a great example of how a chance can work. The problem is of any of the other 40 something that have came through the door, how many have actually produced a profit for us. How many have we let go and had to pay off their contracts so they can accept a lower wage elsewhere. When you have a tv income stream like Brentford, you can afford to play the markets a bit as you’ve got extra cash floating round. We don’t. The bootroom in theory is a great idea but other than Liverpool in the 70s, I can’t think of anywhere that has nurtured a coach and brought one, then the next, then the next through. That tells me people realise it’s a system that doesn’t work. There’s a major difference between all your coaches singing from the same hymn sheet to get the reserves and first team to play in a similar style but it’s far removed from promoting from within because it’s thought to be a good idea. It’s fairly obvious to most that after his prodigy went, he wanted to do the same again with Daly.

 

As far as the playing staff are concerned, CL will have been involved in negotiations to sign these players (was there not a picture of him going to a restaurant with Stockton), so he’s at least signing the cheques. That makes him partly culpable for the mess we are in. Most of the signings have been a miss and he should have been asking questions about why the manager wanted to bring that specific player to the team. In business it’s your due diligence. It again shows more laziness and financially it has cost us.

 

i think as far as getting talent into the academy he’s done a great job and that should be the beginning and the end of his remit.

 

How long do I think he’ll be in the job - anything less than 10 points from these next 8 games will have around being in the jackpot of the play off position. That coupled with a defeat in a cup tie against our fiercest rivals could push him close to the exit door. Anything more than 14 points from these 8 games even with a loss to the in the cup tie will see him safe until the end of the season. 

 

Its not not about loving or hating CL, it’s looking at the damage caused in the last 18 months or and how much of a part his ideas and beliefs have caused in our downward spiral and whether there is any hope for the system he wants so badly. My honest opinion is no, the system doesn’t work and when the prodigy went, the master should have gone too. 

 

Financially,  I don’t think we can afford to get rid of him and that will be a major factor in it. 

 

 

[Geoff the Mince]

6 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

He thinks im a ned is the latest Mothy.

Considering the way you keep going on about it I think he's right ,

 

Definately touched a nerve .

[Beast Boy]

5 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

If you've supported Hearts for as long and as loyally as you say then you should really be able to cope with, what is it now, eight poor months (Jan-May and July to now?)? And yes I know you were one of the Robbie Oot mob who seems to think we were doing badly with him in charge, but I choose not to believe any Hearts fan - especially one who has apparently followed the club for so long - could genuinely believe finishing 3rd and being on track for 3rd again was a negative thing.

 

Name the decade and I'll throw out several worse 8 months than we're having now. Plus worse derby defeats, plus more embarrassing runs of form, plus worse players, plus worse managers. People respond to you and others in very negative ways because your negativity is way over the top.

 

The common thread in all of the over-the-top negative posters on here at least and some at Tynecastle is a deep dislike for Levein some folk have developed. I honestly don't know why and it is genuinely weird behaviour from some in particular. I include people like Michael Stewart and Gary Mackay in that, as they seem to hold grudges. It's funny though that someone like Gary Locke who was actually sacked by Levein doesn't.

 

I idolised Levein as a player, initially liked him as a manager and then got fed up with him in charge. As a DoF I liked him initially and now have doubts that Scotland is the right country for his vision. As a manager again I think he doesn't seem to have the required passion and motivation for the job, which is a worry. However he has proven managerial skills and is a smart guy, so I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he can pull himself and the team together. Time will tell.

 

With the run of home games coming up he has a very favourable fixture list to do it with.

 

But he's not a miracle worker and our squad is in poor shape, which tends to happen when you have a lot of managerial changes in a short period - yet another reason why no-one should be calling for his head yet or even if we lose the cup tie.

 

Now this ^ is a well reasoned and accurate post on the subject. Well balanced and not just strewn with hyperbole and misty-eyed revisionism.

 

Well said Sir.

[Skacelsid]

44 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Ross County - we got them early in Coyles tenure and they’ve improved since he took charge

Hamilton - unpredictable. Who would have thought they’d get results at The Methodrome, Castle Greyskull and a decent result against Aberdeen

Motherwell - Don’t know what game you watched but we were well beaten at Fir Park. Much better midfield and striking options than we have

Dundee - should beat them

Celtic - You’re having a laugh aren’t you. Someone may beat them but at the moment, it’s definately not us unless their first team goes down with dysentery

St Johnstone - our recent record at McDermaid is poor

Hibs - no comment

Aberdeen - again another ground where we have a poor recent record

 

Its the great thing about spin doctors, you can twist the facts to suit whatever you want them to. 

 

For all all the pro Levein camp out there, how many points out of 24 do you realistically think we can get from these games. 

 

Personally, I can’t see us getting more than 12 points from these games but my fear with the way we are playing and low on confidence, it will be between 6 & 8. 

 

I dont know any Hearts fan out there who wants the club to go on a bad run or play poorly but there are warning bells sounding at the moment. He’s almost a part time manager. He doesn’t get the players until Thursday. What good is that. It’s shambolic and smacks of disinterest. How many other SPL managers do you think only work with the team a couple of days a week. He’s getting his boot room system in via the back door. 

 

Fans will always have differing opinions and thoughts. It doesn’t mean they hate the club or want to tear it apart but more they have concerns they are voicing over the way the club they love is being run. Football is ultimately a results driven business and when results are going against you with a backdrop of by enlarge poor football, they have the right to voice concerns. It doesn’t make them an Uber fan or a hater. Too many people on here who want CL and believe in him to be the manager he was 14 years ago are too willing to name call people who question the way he is performing in his role at the club. They have the right to wonder what influence he had there in his role as DOF. We all want the same thing. Success at the club we love. 

 

When we came out of administration, I was happy for CL to be on board. I didn’t think the moneyball system was a good idea, especially when you have a limited budget like ours where your signings shouldn’t be a gamble. We got lucky with Sow and he’s a great example of how a chance can work. The problem is of any of the other 40 something that have came through the door, how many have actually produced a profit for us. How many have we let go and had to pay off their contracts so they can accept a lower wage elsewhere. When you have a tv income stream like Brentford, you can afford to play the markets a bit as you’ve got extra cash floating round. We don’t. The bootroom in theory is a great idea but other than Liverpool in the 70s, I can’t think of anywhere that has nurtured a coach and brought one, then the next, then the next through. That tells me people realise it’s a system that doesn’t work. There’s a major difference between all your coaches singing from the same hymn sheet to get the reserves and first team to play in a similar style but it’s far removed from promoting from within because it’s thought to be a good idea. It’s fairly obvious to most that after his prodigy went, he wanted to do the same again with Daly.

 

As far as the playing staff are concerned, CL will have been involved in negotiations to sign these players (was there not a picture of him going to a restaurant with Stockton), so he’s at least signing the cheques. That makes him partly culpable for the mess we are in. Most of the signings have been a miss and he should have been asking questions about why the manager wanted to bring that specific player to the team. In business it’s your due diligence. It again shows more laziness and financially it has cost us.

 

i think as far as getting talent into the academy he’s done a great job and that should be the beginning and the end of his remit.

 

How long do I think he’ll be in the job - anything less than 10 points from these next 8 games will have around being in the jackpot of the play off position. That coupled with a defeat in a cup tie against our fiercest rivals could push him close to the exit door. Anything more than 14 points from these 8 games even with a loss to the in the cup tie will see him safe until the end of the season. 

 

Its not not about loving or hating CL, it’s looking at the damage caused in the last 18 months or and how much of a part his ideas and beliefs have caused in our downward spiral and whether there is any hope for the system he wants so badly. My honest opinion is no, the system doesn’t work and when the prodigy went, the master should have gone too. 

 

Financially,  I don’t think we can afford to get rid of him and that will be a major factor in it. 

 

 

Good  post, though I do the think the bootroom system is still very much established. It is cloning, and only one link of the chain has gone, Ian Cathro. Some believe through loyalty, which I admire, that this is part of some masterplan and some mention a 5 year plan that will come together, we just need to be patient. We are now well into Craig Levein's  '' different way ''. If our coaching is indeed state of the art, why is our first team a shambles of organisation, generally playing pub league tactics. If we are building for the future should we not be seeing some signs of progress in playing style and how many of our first team squad would be part of the future. We may have some decent youngsters coming through that hopefully become good pros, historically though there are no certainties with that as we know, but the first team cannot be abandoned while we wait for the dream of a production line of talent to become reality, both things have to go hand in hand. I always thought the bootroom plan was more to protect the position of DOF than benefit HMFC and taking charge after the Cathro fiasco and acquiring a three deal does not change my view. Whether we go on a run or not the first team squad needs strengthening, we will need to spend, a squad has been created that has little sell-on value, either through ability or age. Niall McGinn would be a welcome addition, although it would mean another 3 year deal for a 30 year old with no sell on value, every club in this league has a player or two who would improve us but we seem to be trusting agents recommendations and youtube viewing as a way of recruitment ,  our whole club needs to get back to basics. As you stated financially, can we afford to get rid of Craig Levein, or is it can we afford not to. It is Catch 22, I wish I knew the answer but will continue to support my club. Things have to change on the playing front quickly to lift the place. Sunday should have been rocking but was like every game now pretty dead. It would be dangerous to ignore these signs.

[Erik]

I cant help but feel that, as a result of the situation we've put ourselves in and with the cup draw going the way it did....... we're (rightly or wrongly) going to find ourselves in another 'Hibs or bust' type situation for the third manager in a row.

 

Robbie never came back from it.

 

Cathro kinda sealed his fate with it.

 

Levein will now find himself in a very tricky position if we drop out the cup to them.

 

I know a few folk on here seem to think that derby games aren't the be all and end all - but the truth of it is that they DO matter and they aren't like every other game. A good run between now and the derby matches would probably earn him some leeway - but if form continues the way it is at the moment even during the run of home games, its going to get pretty painful by the time Hibs come around.

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Erik said:

I cant help but feel that, as a result of the situation we've put ourselves in and with the cup draw going the way it did....... we're (rightly or wrongly) going to find ourselves in another 'Hibs or bust' type situation for the third manager in a row.

 

Robbie never came back from it.

 

Cathro kinda sealed his fate with it.

 

Levein will now find himself in a very tricky position if we drop out the cup to them.

 

I know a few folk on here seem to think that derby games aren't the be all and end all - but the truth of it is that they DO matter and they aren't like every other game. A good run between now and the derby matches would probably earn him some leeway - but if form continues the way it is at the moment even during the run of home games, its going to get pretty painful by the time Hibs come around.

 

This is exactly how I feel about it.

 

Rightly or wrongly, he - just like Neilson and Cathro - will be judged on derbies predominantly, or how well he does in the Cup.

As a support, we now can’t see past Hibs and we allow them to define us. That was great when we were dominating them, but it means we make a rod for our own backs when we go through blip periods like now. Even blips where we build our infrastructure to that of being far above any other club outwith the Old Firm. No quarter is given if we don’t beat Hibs.

 

Some people think that’s a healthy “winner” attitude. I’m not so sure. Certainly not if it means ripping up plans and infrastructure development part way through, for short term derby success.

 

I hope Levein manages to find the balance and starts getting the results that will give him time to fully implement his vision. Constantly ripping up the first team is not working.

[mitch41]

8 hours ago, Ryder said:

 

Well, at least you’re not being totally melodramatic or hysterical about things.

No i'm just the same as most Hearts fans. Sick of watching our shambles of a team.

[mitch41]

8 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

Ooo, a puppet master controlling a supposed puppet master. The plot thickens...

 

How many levels of puppetry can we put up with! I demand puppet-related answers.

Oh yes she is. Oh no she isn't.

Oh yes she is........she is wins.

[mitch41]

6 hours ago, socrates82 said:

 

If you've supported Hearts for as long and as loyally as you say then you should really be able to cope with, what is it now, eight poor months (Jan-May and July to now?)? And yes I know you were one of the Robbie Oot mob who seems to think we were doing badly with him in charge, but I choose not to believe any Hearts fan - especially one who has apparently followed the club for so long - could genuinely believe finishing 3rd and being on track for 3rd again was a negative thing.

 

Name the decade and I'll throw out several worse 8 months than we're having now. Plus worse derby defeats, plus more embarrassing runs of form, plus worse players, plus worse managers. People respond to you and others in very negative ways because your negativity is way over the top.

 

The common thread in all of the over-the-top negative posters on here at least and some at Tynecastle is a deep dislike for Levein some folk have developed. I honestly don't know why and it is genuinely weird behaviour from some in particular. I include people like Michael Stewart and Gary Mackay in that, as they seem to hold grudges. It's funny though that someone like Gary Locke who was actually sacked by Levein doesn't.

 

I idolised Levein as a player, initially liked him as a manager and then got fed up with him in charge. As a DoF I liked him initially and now have doubts that Scotland is the right country for his vision. As a manager again I think he doesn't seem to have the required passion and motivation for the job, which is a worry. However he has proven managerial skills and is a smart guy, so I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he can pull himself and the team together. Time will tell.

 

With the run of home games coming up he has a very favourable fixture list to do it with.

 

But he's not a miracle worker and our squad is in poor shape, which tends to happen when you have a lot of managerial changes in a short period - yet another reason why no-one should be calling for his head yet or even if we lose the cup tie.

You do come over as a loser. Fly the white flag as 8 months turns into 18 months.

[Beast Boy]

5 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

You do come over as a loser. Fly the white flag as 8 months turns into 18 months.

 

How does he? Did you read his post?

 

He admits that he is unhappy with results and has doubts about Levein. All he is saying is that it’s too early to judge him a failure so early in the job.

[Hood09]

It’s quite simple he needs a result against hibs in December then in jan otherwise it’s going to be toxic. Ann must sense that so will be interesting to see if she helps him out in jan transfer window. 

[Harry Potter]

15 hours ago, Oliver Twist said:

See the obsession with a Cup tie against Hibs is gathering pace already.

 

It's going to be a long few months on here.

You love it, 

[Spencer]

4 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Ross County - we got them early in Coyles tenure and they’ve improved since he took charge

Hamilton - unpredictable. Who would have thought they’d get results at The Methodrome, Castle Greyskull and a decent result against Aberdeen

Motherwell - Don’t know what game you watched but we were well beaten at Fir Park. Much better midfield and striking options than we have

Dundee - should beat them

Celtic - You’re having a laugh aren’t you. Someone may beat them but at the moment, it’s definately not us unless their first team goes down with dysentery

St Johnstone - our recent record at McDermaid is poor

Hibs - no comment

Aberdeen - again another ground where we have a poor recent record

 

Its the great thing about spin doctors, you can twist the facts to suit whatever you want them to. 

 

For all all the pro Levein camp out there, how many points out of 24 do you realistically think we can get from these games. 

 

Personally, I can’t see us getting more than 12 points from these games but my fear with the way we are playing and low on confidence, it will be between 6 & 8. 

 

I dont know any Hearts fan out there who wants the club to go on a bad run or play poorly but there are warning bells sounding at the moment. He’s almost a part time manager. He doesn’t get the players until Thursday. What good is that. It’s shambolic and smacks of disinterest. How many other SPL managers do you think only work with the team a couple of days a week. He’s getting his boot room system in via the back door. 

 

Fans will always have differing opinions and thoughts. It doesn’t mean they hate the club or want to tear it apart but more they have concerns they are voicing over the way the club they love is being run. Football is ultimately a results driven business and when results are going against you with a backdrop of by enlarge poor football, they have the right to voice concerns. It doesn’t make them an Uber fan or a hater. Too many people on here who want CL and believe in him to be the manager he was 14 years ago are too willing to name call people who question the way he is performing in his role at the club. They have the right to wonder what influence he had there in his role as DOF. We all want the same thing. Success at the club we love. 

 

When we came out of administration, I was happy for CL to be on board. I didn’t think the moneyball system was a good idea, especially when you have a limited budget like ours where your signings shouldn’t be a gamble. We got lucky with Sow and he’s a great example of how a chance can work. The problem is of any of the other 40 something that have came through the door, how many have actually produced a profit for us. How many have we let go and had to pay off their contracts so they can accept a lower wage elsewhere. When you have a tv income stream like Brentford, you can afford to play the markets a bit as you’ve got extra cash floating round. We don’t. The bootroom in theory is a great idea but other than Liverpool in the 70s, I can’t think of anywhere that has nurtured a coach and brought one, then the next, then the next through. That tells me people realise it’s a system that doesn’t work. There’s a major difference between all your coaches singing from the same hymn sheet to get the reserves and first team to play in a similar style but it’s far removed from promoting from within because it’s thought to be a good idea. It’s fairly obvious to most that after his prodigy went, he wanted to do the same again with Daly.

 

As far as the playing staff are concerned, CL will have been involved in negotiations to sign these players (was there not a picture of him going to a restaurant with Stockton), so he’s at least signing the cheques. That makes him partly culpable for the mess we are in. Most of the signings have been a miss and he should have been asking questions about why the manager wanted to bring that specific player to the team. In business it’s your due diligence. It again shows more laziness and financially it has cost us.

 

i think as far as getting talent into the academy he’s done a great job and that should be the beginning and the end of his remit.

 

How long do I think he’ll be in the job - anything less than 10 points from these next 8 games will have around being in the jackpot of the play off position. That coupled with a defeat in a cup tie against our fiercest rivals could push him close to the exit door. Anything more than 14 points from these 8 games even with a loss to the in the cup tie will see him safe until the end of the season. 

 

Its not not about loving or hating CL, it’s looking at the damage caused in the last 18 months or and how much of a part his ideas and beliefs have caused in our downward spiral and whether there is any hope for the system he wants so badly. My honest opinion is no, the system doesn’t work and when the prodigy went, the master should have gone too. 

 

Financially,  I don’t think we can afford to get rid of him and that will be a major factor in it. 

 

 

Outstanding post 

[combo74]

No point sacking Levein now and handing another new manager the poisoned chalice of 1 or 2 Hibs games early in their tenure! ? Lose and half our fans would be calling for their head straight away. We'll end up with a long line of managers who live and die by the Hibs result.

 

I'd give Levein the next 2 months, which takes us through the transfer window and the Hibs games; give him an opportunity to see if he can improve things with a run of home games, injured players coming back and some of his own signings. By the end of January if there are no signs of improvement then we may have to call time on his Hearts career.

[Spencer]

It will be interesting as to whether his terms have improved to undertake the dual role or whether he is doing both roles for his DoF salary 

 

Michael Stewart has a point - if his tenure as manager is a disaster - can he stay on as DoF or is is time at the club as a whole up in such circumstances 

[Skacelsid]

21 minutes ago, Ryder said:

 

This is exactly how I feel about it.

 

Rightly or wrongly, he - just like Neilson and Cathro - will be judged on derbies predominantly, or how well he does in the Cup.

As a support, we now can’t see past Hibs and we allow them to define us. That was great when we were dominating them, but it means we make a rod for our own backs when we go through blip periods like now. Even blips where we build our infrastructure to that of being far above any other club outwith the Old Firm. No quarter is given if we don’t beat Hibs.

 

Some people think that’s a healthy “winner” attitude. I’m not so sure. Certainly not if it means ripping up plans and infrastructure development part way through, for short term derby success.

 

I hope Levein manages to find the balance and starts getting the results that will give him time to fully implement his vision. Constantly ripping up the first team is not working.

I do not believe in a bootroom of coaches, performance schools, laptop tacticians etc and I will not be buying a driverless car very soon. I do not believe that given time we will take Scottish football by storm. I do know that a couple of good signings and the appointment of a decent  coach a year ago would have had us in very good shape and young players would have been blooded at the right time for the right reasons. We should be a lot better than we are, and more pleasing on the eye. I do believe in scouting for and developing the best young talent we can get but at the same time  building a first team that is well coached, organised with some style  and so replace the now normal dead match-day atmosphere . Good players win games and play good football and will occasionally win trophies, that is my vision.

[Coco]

Another issue is just how expensive it would be to dismantle the empire.

 

Cathro another 2 1/2 years unless compromised out.

Levein another 2 1/2 years - perhaps £400k.

MacPhee (with the poorest year on record perhaps in Hearts management/coaching history) - another 2 1/2 years.

Daly, Fox, Gallacher who knows.  Plus the coach of the coaches, head of youth, Director of Academy and the rest.

 

Then you get to the players.  Sammon another year and a half.  Martin another 2 1/2 years.  Cowie another couple of years.  Monies to push players out the door.  Monies to bring players in.  Seriously expensive to sort out Levein's mess.

[Bainy]

Sadly for us no! For the good of the team they should be. All we do by letting him take control beyond this season is allow him to recruit more guff and have us playing the same eye bleeding football (if you can even call what were playing football just now).  Saying he deserves January to turn it around - was he not as director of football in charge of recruitment? That means that for the past two years he has overseen this utter shambles that we have become on the pitch.

[Spencer]

2 minutes ago, Coco said:

Another issue is just how expensive it would be to dismantle the empire.

 

Cathro another 2 1/2 years unless compromised out.

Levein another 2 1/2 years - perhaps £400k.

MacPhee (with the poorest year on record perhaps in Hearts management/coaching history) - another 2 1/2 years.

Daly, Fox, Gallacher who knows.  Plus the coach of the coaches, head of youth, Director of Academy and the rest.

 

Then you get to the players.  Sammon another year and a half.  Martin another 2 1/2 years.  Cowie another couple of years.  Monies to push players out the door.  Monies to bring players in.  Seriously expensive to sort out Levein's mess.

Some people are not comfortable with this be pointed out 

[davemclaren]

24 minutes ago, Spencer said:

It will be interesting as to whether his terms have improved to undertake the dual role or whether he is doing both roles for his DoF salary 

 

Michael Stewart has a point - if his tenure as manager is a disaster - can he stay on as DoF or is is time at the club as a whole up in such circumstances 

We’ll find out next accounts re your first point. I don’t think he can carry  on if he fails as manager. 

[merseyjambo]

1 hour ago, Skacelsid said:

Good  post, though I do the think the bootroom system is still very much established. It is cloning, and only one link of the chain has gone, Ian Cathro. Some believe through loyalty, which I admire, that this is part of some masterplan and some mention a 5 year plan that will come together, we just need to be patient. We are now well into Craig Levein's  '' different way ''. If our coaching is indeed state of the art, why is our first team a shambles of organisation, generally playing pub league tactics. If we are building for the future should we not be seeing some signs of progress in playing style and how many of our first team squad would be part of the future. We may have some decent youngsters coming through that hopefully become good pros, historically though there are no certainties with that as we know, but the first team cannot be abandoned while we wait for the dream of a production line of talent to become reality, both things have to go hand in hand. I always thought the bootroom plan was more to protect the position of DOF than benefit HMFC and taking charge after the Cathro fiasco and acquiring a three deal does not change my view. Whether we go on a run or not the first team squad needs strengthening, we will need to spend, a squad has been created that has little sell-on value, either through ability or age. Niall McGinn would be a welcome addition, although it would mean another 3 year deal for a 30 year old with no sell on value, every club in this league has a player or two who would improve us but we seem to be trusting agents recommendations and youtube viewing as a way of recruitment ,  our whole club needs to get back to basics. As you stated financially, can we afford to get rid of Craig Levein, or is it can we afford not to. It is Catch 22, I wish I knew the answer but will continue to support my club. Things have to change on the playing front quickly to lift the place. Sunday should have been rocking but was like every game now pretty dead. It would be dangerous to ignore these signs.

 

I get the bootroom idea but that only works if you have a quality of coach that’s good enough waiting to come in. Daly. Maybe. Too early to tell. Fox. Sacked by Cowdenbeath. Says it all really about him. Kirk, again too early to tell. The 20s are doing ok but like a youngster moving up, it’s a big step. 

 

I think we we all know the squad need strengthening but it’s whether we have much in the way of finances to do it. There is too much deadwood in the squad but it’s all very well wanting players to move on but they will only do that if it’s the right deal for them and again it’s likely to cost us money to move some of them on. 

 

 

[gowestjambo]

17 minutes ago, Coco said:

Another issue is just how expensive it would be to dismantle the empire.

 

Cathro another 2 1/2 years unless compromised out.

Levein another 2 1/2 years - perhaps £400k.

MacPhee (with the poorest year on record perhaps in Hearts management/coaching history) - another 2 1/2 years.

Daly, Fox, Gallacher who knows.  Plus the coach of the coaches, head of youth, Director of Academy and the rest.

 

Then you get to the players.  Sammon another year and a half.  Martin another 2 1/2 years.  Cowie another couple of years.  Monies to push players out the door.  Monies to bring players in.  Seriously expensive to sort out Levein's mess.

 

Lets face it, we all understand why Ann Budge wanted an experienced man in charge of Hearts after Administration. We all bought in to the 5 Year Plan, however, it should be obvious that the man responsible for all Football matters has failed miserably when you look at the above post. The very idea that Craig Levein was somehow not responsible for the shambles we find ourselves in is incomprehensible. Are we to believe he allowed Cathro free rein to sign a bunch of duds, in addition to those above?

 

If so it is a dereliction of duty at best, or gross incompetence at worst. And now he is to be the Saviour? - don't make me laugh!! His demeanour since becoming the Manager is unacceptable, and our results have not improved. But despite all of this, all he needs is more time????

[RudiHMFC]

When we got rid of Cathro we just chopped the head off the weed, the root problem still remained and still does remain, until such time he is removed from the club we will continue to watch depressing football, praying we scrape a win at home against anyone to have something to cling on to.

 

 

[upgotheheads]

There's absolutely no chance that CL will be ditched this season unless were in second bottom or worse with 3 games to go, which ain't going to happen.

Anyone who thinks he will be should think back 3 seasons to when Pat Fenlon was ditched by Hubs when they were sitting comfortably mid table and safe from relegation. 

Terry Butcher fixed it for them  didn't he?

[Spencer]

23 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

We’ll find out next accounts re your first point. I don’t think he can carry  on if he fails as manager. 

I did wonder if there might be some Accounting way in which his rumereration, if any, above his Directors Remuneration could be separated in the Accounts. It's probably fairly unusual for the only remunerated executive to fulfil another role in a business. 

 

He may have a joint remuneration. Interesting what it would be though. I'd imagine Cathro was on significantly north of £135k. MacPhee may also be on more than that given terms believed to be attached to that of the role Malky Mackay 

[RudiHMFC]

7 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

There's absolutely no chance that CL will be ditched this season unless were in second bottom or worse with 3 games to go, which ain't going to happen.

Anyone who thinks he will be should think back 3 seasons to when Pat Fenlon was ditched by Hubs when they were sitting comfortably mid table and safe from relegation. 

Terry Butcher fixed it for them  didn't he?

We're 5 points off the play off spot and we've just taken one point from two games at home against the bottom two.

 

Let's not change it mind coz remember that time hibs got relegated.

[Escobar PHM]

57 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

 

 

I think we we all know the squad need strengthening but it’s whether we have much in the way of finances to do it. There is too much deadwood in the squad but it’s all very well wanting players to move on but they will only do that if it’s the right deal for them and again it’s likely to cost us money to move some of them on. 

 

 

Problem here is we are going to have to both at the same time.

 

No point in keeping THAT squad intact for a new manager to work with. It wouldn't be fair and whoever it is would fail.

No point in keeping THAT manager to fritter away more money. Thats just allowing him to do more of the same stuff that got us to where we are.

 

We are going to have to speculate to accumulate here and do a bit of financial juggling. Ann Budge has got to see the signs that crowds are going to drop off if what is on the pitch continues to be so ugly.

[Barb]

1 hour ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Lets face it, we all understand why Ann Budge wanted an experienced man in charge of Hearts after Administration. We all bought in to the 5 Year Plan, however, it should be obvious that the man responsible for all Football matters has failed miserably when you look at the above post. The very idea that Craig Levein was somehow not responsible for the shambles we find ourselves in is incomprehensible. Are we to believe he allowed Cathro free rein to sign a bunch of duds, in addition to those above?

 

If so it is a dereliction of duty at best, or gross incompetence at worst. And now he is to be the Saviour? - don't make me laugh!! His demeanour since becoming the Manager is unacceptable, and our results have not improved. But despite all of this, all he needs is more time????

On topic, yes, his days are numbered, unfortunately, for financial reasons, they're probably numbered in thousands rather than single figures.

[wavydavy]

17 hours ago, RudiHMFC said:

 

Only stupid people think Levein will take us forward, I will be right again, he's done.

 

Forget January windows, we only need this we only need that, it's all bullshit he needs to go.

 

I heard he is bringing out a book at Xmas called the Craig Levein Book of Excuses hotly followed by How to Convince your Boss you are Good at your Job (when you aren't).

[Thomaso]

38 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I heard he is bringing out a book at Xmas called the Craig Levein Book of Excuses hotly followed by How to Convince your Boss you are Good at your Job (when you aren't).

 

 

How about "The Craig Levein Book of Entertaining and Attacking Football"

 

I hear it's an interesting but very short read.......

[Thomaso]

47 minutes ago, Barb said:

On topic, yes, his days are numbered, unfortunately, for financial reasons, they're probably numbered in thousands rather than single figures.

 

 

Indeed - some on here were praising the 3 year deal he screwed....er negotiated out of the Club.  "Ties him to the Club if he gets head hunted" they said!! 

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Thomaso said:

 

 

Indeed - some on here were praising the 3 year deal he screwed....er negotiated out of the Club.  "Ties him to the Club if he gets head hunted" they said!! 

Please tell me you're making this up. 

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Please tell me you're making this up. 

 

Wish I was!

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Spencer said:

It will be interesting as to whether his terms have improved to undertake the dual role or whether he is doing both roles for his DoF salary 

 

Michael Stewart has a point - if his tenure as manager is a disaster - can he stay on as DoF or is is time at the club as a whole up in such circumstances 

I don't see how he could. I'm not a CL hater  but I was genuinely gobsmacked that he got the job and on 3 year deal too. That says to me the DOF stuff may well be coming to an end. Leveins credibility is now on the line and his future at the club is entirely down  to him now , not any success or failings of a head coach. He has overseen this mess, he has appointed an utter disaster in Cathro  and presumably stood behind Cathro in the summer when he should have been sacked (and for me , very interestingly, we didn't sign any of the players we clearly needed).  1 point from two games at home against the bottom two clubs ?  CL can't bitch about the lack of quality to the board  - he oversaw the recruitment.  he is expected to get the best out of the dross we have , motivate & organise etc, etc. He clearly hasn't got it any more. 

[Spencer]

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I don't see how he could. I'm not a CL hater  but I was genuinely gobsmacked that he got the job and on 3 year deal too. That says to me the DOF stuff may well be coming to an end. Leveins credibility is now on the line and his future at the club is entirely down  to him now , not any success or failings of a head coach. He has overseen this mess, he has appointed an utter disaster in Cathro  and presumably stood behind Cathro in the summer when he should have been sacked (and for me , very interestingly, we didn't sign any of the players we clearly needed).  1 point from two games at home against the bottom two clubs ?  CL can't bitch about the lack of quality to the board  - he oversaw the recruitment.  he is expected to get the best out of the dross we have , motivate & organise etc, etc. He clearly hasn't got it any more. 

I will give him the benefit of the doubt but January is massive - a notoriously difficult transfer window.  His comments in the EEN about needing c. 5 players shows he knows what's needed. Whether he can get the players in who can make a difference is another thing. Budge appointed him so needs to support him in January 

 

I suspect he has done a number of very productive things behind the scenes since he came into the club 3 and a bit years ago. The state the place had been left in by the Russian regime was scandalous.

 

We need to get to January and add quality. I think we need to give him this season at least. He must win the cup tie though

 

There are games that are must win and that undeniably is one of them 

 

I have been very critical of him in certain respects. But I'm not convinced yet that he doesn't have it any longer.  

 

He is in the last chance saloon however. Hopefully he takes it as it will improve our collective mood and out look! 

[bobskeldon]

6 minutes ago, Spencer said:

I will give him the benefit of the doubt but January is massive - a notoriously difficult transfer window.  His comments in the EEN about needing c. 5 players shows he knows what's needed. Whether he can get the players in who can make a difference is another thing. Budge appointed him so needs to support him in January 

 

I suspect he has done a number of very productive things behind the scenes since he came into the club 3 and a bit years ago. The state the place had been left in by the Russian regime was scandalous.

 

We need to get to January and add quality. I think we need to give him this season at least. He must win the cup tie though

 

There are games that are must win and that undeniably is one of them 

 

I have been very critical of him in certain respects. But I'm not convinced yet that he doesn't have it any longer.  

 

He is in the last chance saloon however. Hopefully he takes it as it will improve our collective mood and out look! 

Regardless of what happens to us in the league????

[wavydavy]

47 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

 

How about "The Craig Levein Book of Entertaining and Attacking Football"

 

I hear it's an interesting but very short read.......

 

Must be Fiction.

[Spencer]

5 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

Regardless of what happens to us in the league????

No. And I fully accept 1 point from 12 is unacceptable 

 

Challenge he faces is we have quite a number of games pre January window. They are all at home bar 2 and that could be difficult for a group lack confidence and quality 

 

We look nailed on bottom 6 imo.  The squad 3 or 4 players aside is very poor indeed.  

 

It is vital we get 6 points from County and Hamilton. Anything less and the problems grow deeper 

 

He is fully responsible for this mess 

[Bazzas right boot]

11 hours ago, Hendricks said:

I'm gutted tweedle dum and tweedle dee agree with Notts. Gutted I tell ye. 

You could bring some balance to your views.

 

Constantly having a go at the club you support across everything is strange.

 

Why not throw in a few positive posts?

 

Certain posters have been very negative on here even when 3rd under Robbie and rarely post when we win or on good news thread's.

[Spencer]

2 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

You could bring some balance to your views.

 

Constantly having a go at the club you support across everything is strange.

 

Why not throw in a few positive posts?

 

Certain posters have been very negative on here even when 3rd under Robbie and rarely post when we win or on good news thread's.

Hendricks is an excellent poster Tosh. Amongst best on here imo. 

 

He has given credit for progress off the pitch, as we all have.

 

On the pitch it's a ****ing disgrace and it really is OK for a Hearts fan to say as much 

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Spencer said:

Hendricks is an excellent poster Tosh. Amongst best on here imo. 

 

He has given credit for progress off the pitch, as we all have.

 

On the pitch it's a ****ing disgrace and it really is OK for a Hearts fan to say as much 

People were saying that since we were 3rd.

 

Sayings like "****ing disgrace" have lost all context as everything that is not 100% gets classed as such.

 

A ****ing disgrace ...... Honestly.

 

There's no balance or in all honesty -reality to some of the stuff banded about.

[Spencer]

1 minute ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

People were saying that since we were 3rd.

 

Sayings like "****ing disgrace" have lost all context as everything that is not 100% gets classed as such.

 

A ****ing disgrace ...... Honestly.

 

There's no balance or in all honesty -reality to some of the stuff banded about.

It really is though Toshy. You haven't changed tone despite a horrible run of results and more crucially - performances.  1 point from home games against Partick and Kilmarnock is die. Absolutely dire 

 

As I said above - nothing less than 6 points from next 2 games is acceptable given foregoing 

 

Need to remove players like Callachan as Sunday showed he's overawed 

[Bazzas right boot]

13 minutes ago, Spencer said:

It really is though Toshy. You haven't changed tone despite a horrible run of results and more crucially - performances.  1 point from home games against Partick and Kilmarnock is die. Absolutely dire 

 

As I said above - nothing less than 6 points from next 2 games is acceptable given foregoing 

 

Need to remove players like Callachan as Sunday showed he's overawed 

 

 

Everyone knows we need the improve.

 

Changing tone? I'm a supporter, I can also see an improvement since Cathro left, we need to further improve.

 

Also, some posters haven't changed tone from since we were third. Negative then, negative under Cathro, negative now. Constantly called for change- how did that work out.

 

I agree, we need to make the most of the home run.

[Spencer]

2 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

 

Everyone knows we need the improve.

 

Changing tone? I'm a supporter, I can also see an improvement since Cathro left, we need to further improve.

 

I agree, we need to make the most of the home run.

Improvement since Cathro left.......

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

 

Everyone knows we need the improve.

 

Changing tone? I'm a supporter, I can also see an improvement since Cathro left, we need to further improve.

 

I agree, we need to make the most of the home run.

 

I really cannot see any meaningful improvement under Levein - mind you the Cathro appointment was such a disaster that it would be hard not to improve!!

 

I agree on your last comment - at Tynecastle against Ross County, Hamilton, Motherwell and Dundee.

 

What do you deem to be the acceptable points total from these games?