Levein stay or go? ( merged superthread )

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, ycj said:

GO, NOW ASAP.. and take your coaching staff with you. Liam Fox????? he took Cowdenbeath to the brink of oblivion , then a week later he's  back on the Hearts training ground???  Get the lot to f,,k!

Billy Brown, Gary Locke havent done any  better at Cowdenbeath. It’s clearly not a management issue. 

[Snedds76]

5 minutes ago, Niemi said:

We obviously can't afford to bring someone new in otherwise Levein wouldn't have been appointed manager in the first place. He was the cheap option, forced on us because Budge has presided over a huge overspend on the new stand.

spot on! Some our fans better realise soon there is no available cash to bring in a manager.  

[JamboSpur]

Go.

 

Levein and his project pish needs to stop. He needs to stop trying to reinvent the football wheel and get things back to basics. He's not as good or clever as he thinks.

[tolcross lad]

10 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Sorry but Daily Record and Hearts??? Never a truthful word printed. 

I really dont think that you can accept that Levein has had a strong hand in all of our signings.Everything goes through him whether its loans of young players to lower divisions or Lafferty.If he was convinced by Neilson that we should give a 30 year old striker(with a poor scoring record) a 3 year deal then Levein is guilty of serious misjudgement.Likewise if he was convinced by Cathro to give  Martin a 3 year deal.

I will try again.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/levein-changes-transfer-strategy-after-mistakes-mx3j76nks   

 http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-hearts-signing-policy-risky-but-paying-off-1-4322507                                                                                                                                             

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/15067441.Craig_Levein__Hectic_January_doesn_t_mean_Hearts__transfer_policy_has_changed___developing_young_players_is_still_what_we_do/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gambo]

Quite telling that on a pro Levein forum, more than 50% want rid.

[redm]

5 hours ago, JamboFulton said:

 

Where’s the proof that she’s a hard-headed businesswoman? Successful, undoubtedly. But hard-headed? I doubt she’s ever been put in the position before that a trusted close advisor needs removed through their own doing. 

 

Im genuinely starting to wonder if Levein has an alter ego online that used to post on sisterfister.net.

If anyone has any real proof that he is a PHM (not just an okay record as a manager previously or a “hardman/ badass” as a player) that would be great? All I’ve seen from watching his reign so far is pound signs behind his eyes. 

 

I genuinely wonder if it’s self gain or if he is seriously trying to dismantle the club from the inside. 

 

She got rid of Gardiner most recently, and Cathro before that. I don't think she has an issue with letting people go when it's the appropriate time to do so.

[i8hibsh]

15 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I'd give him till January and allow him to sign some players.

 

You would trust him? 50 duds says I don't.

[Boab]

9 games in. 3 wins, 2 draws, 4 defeats. I'll leave the pichfork in the shed for a wee bit yet.

Grim to watch but it's been a while since we have played anything close to entertaining football.

Haven't voted either, an opinion is enough.

[Thomaso]

46% on here still think he can turn his shambles around!!!  I assume a high percentage never go to games or are trolling!!!

[ford donald]

9 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

46% on here still think he can turn his shambles around!!!  I assume a high percentage never go to games or are trolling!!!

 

Cannot understand why people still want him,for all the problems he has created,the football is going backwards at a alarming rate.

 

[3fingersreid]

2 hours ago, Snedds76 said:

spot on! Some our fans better realise soon there is no available cash to bring in a manager.  

Does that also mean there’s no cash to sign players in January , no cash to pay off some of the dross that are on good wages we no longer want either ?.

[black stump]

too early to punt him, he deserves a bit longer. not an awful lot longer though....

[BobbyJenkins]

Needs more time to fix the problems. Whether people feel he deserves that...

[Mellor]

18 hours ago, mscjambo said:

Title says it all. His stranglehold over all things football is killing us. Recruitment to tactics. We are awful and he is responsible for the majority of it.

 

I appreciate we nearly went under but Levein is a massive problem.

 

When I see Levein interviewed he seems almost out of touch with today's game. He's hardly 'old' but has a good few years on the likes of Rodgers, McInnes and Lennon who seem more aligned to the modern Scottish football player. Levein was very much a rookie when he went into management, having been forced to pack in playing early, but it's the best part of a decade since he was in a hands-on club role and I wonder if the game has passed him by to some extent. His stubborn, inflexible approach as Scotland boss was disastrous and Hearts appear to be getting steadily worse under his tenure. 

[tolcross lad]

9 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 

Cannot understand why people still want him,for all the problems he has created,the football is going backwards at a alarming rate.

 

I dont want him or his project.The trouble is we have no money to spend on a new manager .Getting rid of Levein will cost and we would be left with Daly.It might be the only option if the run of bad results continue. Many fans understand that its not just a sacking situation.Mr Levein has always known how to extract his pound of flesh.

[Walter Bishop]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Truth though even though it hurts the Levein out argument. 

It`s not the truth. 

[kingdannyb]

This season is all about getting the stand ready for next season and the team ready for next season.

That is all.

[Walter Bishop]

49 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

46% on here still think he can turn his shambles around!!!  I assume a high percentage never go to games or are trolling!!!

Im not surprised at that figure at all. 

We have a support that is divided, and has been for a few years. We have the fans who want to see progression and a competitive Heart of Midlothian and we have the fans who are prepared to sit back and accept mediocrity because we were in administration and won the championship.

There was an opportunity when Neilson left to take Hearts to the next level, to push on and challenge Aberdeen for 2nd place. Instead we allowed Craig Levein to experiment with his coaching school and waste our money and its set us back at least 3 years! 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

2 minutes ago, kingdannyb said:

This season is all about getting the stand ready for next season and the team ready for next season.

That is all.

Great, just like last season. then. Shambles of a club

[Walter Bishop]

2 minutes ago, kingdannyb said:

This season is all about getting the stand ready for next season and the team ready for next season.

That is all.

Another team another season! 50 players in 3 years, surely we should have a team by now? 

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

Im not surprised at that figure at all. 

We have a support that is divided, and has been for a few years. We have the fans who want to see progression and a competitive Heart of Midlothian and we have the fans who are prepared to sit back and accept mediocrity because we were in administration and won the championship.

There was an opportunity when Neilson left to take Hearts to the next level, to push on and challenge Aberdeen for 2nd place. Instead we allowed Craig Levein to experiment with his coaching school and waste our money and its set us back at least 3 years! 

 

 

Spot on Walter!   It was all about Levein retaining power and control.

[Thomaso]

20 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

I dont want him or his project.The trouble is we have no money to spend on a new manager .Getting rid of Levein will cost and we would be left with Daly.It might be the only option if the run of bad results continue. Many fans understand that its not just a sacking situation.Mr Levein has always known how to extract his pound of flesh.

 

I said this at the time.  He negotiated himself a nice 3 year contract - he will not be easy to shift - just ask the SFA!

[WavyGravy]

I don't particularly want him to be our manager any more.  But I'm realistic as to the reasons why he is the manager.  We don't have the money to do everything we want/need to do.  We've signed poorly, recruited management and coaches poorly and to get these guys off the wage bill costs money.  We can play the blame game until we are blue in the face (and its fair to say Levein is as culpable as anybody) but the chances of things changing soon is remote.  It is without doubt the single least inspiring Hearts squad since probably Tommy McLean was foisted upon us.  Another guy with deeprooted ideas on how to play football that was as flexible as concrete.  The days of Robbie Neilson seems so very  long ago.

[ford donald]

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

I said this at the time.  He negotiated himself a nice 3 year contract - he will not be easy to shift - just ask the SFA!

  

Beginning to question AB..

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

2 hours ago, Gambo said:

Quite telling that on a pro Levein forum, more than 50% want rid.

 

By definition that makes it an anti-Levein forum

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, Niemi said:

We obviously can't afford to bring someone new in otherwise Levein wouldn't have been appointed manager in the first place. He was the cheap option, forced on us because Budge has presided over a huge overspend on the new stand.

I think it's more the case that nobody of any note would want to work in our present structure. Ditching the DOF role and salary would leave us able to bring in a proper manager with his own ideas and total control of first team matters.

[Thomaso]

11 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I think it's more the case that nobody of any note would want to work in our present structure. Ditching the DOF role and salary would leave us able to bring in a proper manager with his own ideas and total control of first team matters.

 

This is correct - we would however have the small matter of paying Levein the balance of his nice juicy 3 year contract.

[johnking123]

The new foundation plaza will great for this 

[rudi must stay]

Stay for now, too early. But I must admit I'm not very optimistic with him in charge

[portobellojambo1]

1 minute ago, rudi must stay said:

Stay for now, too early. But I must admit I'm not very optimistic with him in charge

 

What upset many people was that they didn't appreciate how long the club took to dismiss Ian Cathro. Do we want to repeat that, and just keep on giving him a chance, or do we need somebody to stand up and say this whole thing is Donald Ducked, lets change sooner rather than later. Some people are counting on us suddenly finding something when we return to Tynecastle, and all the ills will be gone, and in truth that just isn't going to happen. I do appreciate that releasing him will indeed bring complications because lets be honest, he will fight tooth and nail to get every single penny he can out of HMFC, he won't just walk away and admit it didn't work.

[Martin_T]

The Craig Levein of the years 2000 to 2004 would be a tremendous asset to the club. He was a young, hungry and ambitious coach who achieved consistency in the league that we've rarely, if at all, seen since. His recruitment in that period was pretty solid also, McKenna, Webster, Stamp, MacFarlane, Maybury, Valois, De Vries etc all added value to the squad and we achieved good results both domestically and in Europe. I also think that the football was quite entertaining at times as results such as 7-1 v Dunfermline and 4-4 and 5-1 vs Hibs evidence.

 

CL now though? Is the hunger still there? I'm still not convinced that he actually wanted the job. I appreciate that some people mellow over time, but would he ever be so keen for example to spank and send Hibs home as he was back then?

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, kingdannyb said:

This season is all about getting the stand ready for next season and the team ready for next season.

That is all.

 

I don't remember that quote in the season ticket brochure.

[Haken]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

I don't remember that quote in the season ticket brochure.

Was thinking similar.  I must have missed the discount offered, too.

[Thomaso]

13 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

What upset many people was that they didn't appreciate how long the club took to dismiss Ian Cathro. Do we want to repeat that, and just keep on giving him a chance, or do we need somebody to stand up and say this whole thing is Donald Ducked, lets change sooner rather than later. Some people are counting on us suddenly finding something when we return to Tynecastle, and all the ills will be gone, and in truth that just isn't going to happen. I do appreciate that releasing him will indeed bring complications because lets be honest, he will fight tooth and nail to get every single penny he can out of HMFC, he won't just walk away and admit it didn't work.

 

When I heard he had been given a 3 year contract I said this would end in tears!

[mscjambo]

1 hour ago, kingdannyb said:

This season is all about getting the stand ready for next season and the team ready for next season.

That is all.

Is that where we are aiming? Maybe we should just pack up now and accept a relegation dog fight.

 

If you believe things will miraculously improve with Levein any way involved in footballing operations then you are being massively optimistic.

 

This man is strangling the life out of the club, can someone tell me how things are suddenly going to improve with him in any way involved.

[Escobar PHM]

14 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

When I heard he had been given a 3 year contract I said this would end in tears!

I still cant believe Ann Budge did this without some kind of contingency built in that protects us against a full pay out. What a colossal error if she did. One that she should actually cover herself if it goes tits up.

 

At worst, if he is going, it has to be gardening leave as a one off payment of that sort kills us.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Levein needs the wage for his gambling kitty..............he is going nowhere

[Bull's-eye]

Happy for Craig to carry on.

 

Be nice if the plane demonstration planned gets a good few photographs of the new main stand. Be happy to contribute to that as well.

[sac]

25 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

When I heard he had been given a 3 year contract I said this would end in tears!

 

It looked like a golden handshake deal, knowing full well that if she had to punt him he got a decent severance as a reward.

[Thomaso]

19 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I'd give him till January and allow him to sign some players.

 

 

He has overseen the last 3 shambolic windows - handing out 3 year deals to absolute dross!!   What makes you think his judgement is suddenly going to improve in January???

[Thomaso]

8 minutes ago, sac said:

 

It looked like a golden handshake deal, knowing full well that if she had to punt him he got a decent severance as a reward.

 

Could be - far too cosy a relationship there!

[Thomaso]

24 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

I still cant believe Ann Budge did this without some kind of contingency built in that protects us against a full pay out. What a colossal error if she did. One that she should actually cover herself if it goes tits up.

 

At worst, if he is going, it has to be gardening leave as a one off payment of that sort kills us.

 

 

Is he not still on 'gardening leave' payments from the SFA?   Looks after himself does our Craig......

[tolcross lad]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

 

Could be - far too cosy a relationship there!

 

Thats serious stuff.It would mean that Ann Budge is complicit in misusing our money.I have not been happy with her misplaced trust in Levein but find it hard to believe that she would be part of such a deal.

[Notts1874]

6 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

 

Is he not still on 'gardening leave' payments from the SFA?   Looks after himself does our Craig......

Didn't realise that Craig had an eight year contract with the SFA.

[Escobar PHM]

6 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

 

Is he not still on 'gardening leave' payments from the SFA?   Looks after himself does our Craig......

Nah I think his garden was perfect and they stopped paying him just before he took the Hearts DOF job

[PRENTICE CROSSES]

GO NOW PLEASE.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Didn't realise that Craig had an eight year contract with the SFA.

 

Neither did I but knowing him it wouldn't surprise me!   

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

 

Neither did I but knowing him it wouldn't surprise me!   

Come on now. You can make some decent points about Craig without making stuff up.

 

I would say he has three games and if results don't go our way the support will force him out.

[soonbe110]

4 hours ago, tolcross lad said:

I really dont think that you can accept that Levein has had a strong hand in all of our signings.Everything goes through him whether its loans of young players to lower divisions or Lafferty.If he was convinced by Neilson that we should give a 30 year old striker(with a poor scoring record) a 3 year deal then Levein is guilty of serious misjudgement.Likewise if he was convinced by Cathro to give  Martin a 3 year deal.

I will try again.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/levein-changes-transfer-strategy-after-mistakes-mx3j76nks   

 http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-hearts-signing-policy-risky-but-paying-off-1-4322507                                                                                                                                             

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/15067441.Craig_Levein__Hectic_January_doesn_t_mean_Hearts__transfer_policy_has_changed___developing_young_players_is_still_what_we_do/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what you are saying is that he was meddling in first team affairs almost all the time despite Nielson and Cathro and Levein saying that he wasn’t? So who do I believe,  them ie the horses mouth or you with your speculation along with the media particularly the Daily Ranger and Bazza who gets all his stories from this forum. Don’t  bother answering it’s not a tough decision. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

This is correct - we would however have the small matter of paying Levein the balance of his nice juicy 3 year contract.

Yes, that could be problematic I suppose. The thing that I just don't get about Levein is, given the really bad luck he had with injuries during his playing career, why he is not desperately hungry to win something and get a bit of success as a manager. He always sets up his teams to be extremely cautious and he talks about away games as if they are some kind of traumatic experience for the players. The reluctance to play a pacy winger like Milinkovic despite all our injury problems is baffling. The comment about historically winning most of our points at Tynecastle could apply to any team in the country and their home games. However, trophies will not be handed out at Tynecastle and so if he does want to win something he will need to ditch the stubborn mindset and start taking a more positive approach to all games.