Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[Macros]

In my experience there is rarely if ever just one person to blame when things go wrong. We have at best a mediocre squad, we brought in players to get us out of the Championship and it worked spectacularly well, since then our recruitment has been patchy to say the least, I had a look the other day and posted about it being roughly 50/50 between good and bad signings, perhaps a little generous but last season's signings were almost to a man poor despite some having good CV's. After a couple of sore defeats like this week then everything does look bleak and I fully understand the need for looking for and making certain people scapegoats but we can't lay all the blame for our current situation at one person's door. Even when we romped to the Championship there were plenty on here moaning about Robbie's tactics and the tired old 'it's not his team it's all Levein's fault' mantra was already being dished out and that was when we were winning. I don't know the inner goings on at Tynecastle regarding who is responsible for each transfer but I doubt Craig is the only one who has had full decision making powers on every signing so far. He would have had input from Neilson, Crawford, Cathro, McPhee, Daly, Fox and any of the scouts involved. The board and not just Levein are responsible for signing Cathro, incidentally going by their prior interest I think there was a good chance he would have become Rangers manager this summer if we hadn't signed him. The board and not just Levein decided to go ahead with the building of the new stand. The board and not just Levein decided to appoint him as manager.

Yes tactics and choice of team for the last couple of games are down to him and he didn't get it right but not all that is wrong at the club just now is down to one guy. We need to change the squad but with other financial outgoings that won't be easy, especially in January. He had a decent record last time around as Hearts manager during a difficult period for the club then as well, I certainly don't think we'll be relegated or even in any sort of relegation/play-off dogfight, nor will we be challenging for 2nd or 3rd, we can challenge for top six and if we do make a couple of good signings in January then we might make a shot at 4th, not ideal by any means but in the circumstances of a failed coaching experiment and rebuilding of part of the ground that will be as good as it can be this season.

[Gambo]

What have people seen in our league games that gives them the impression that Levein is the man for the job?

 

The football's poor.

The results have been poor.

 

What am I missing?

[wavydavy]

17 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

 

Is the correct answer.

 

Total and utter sham. They honestly think we all stitch up the back.

 

A SERIAL loser throughout his entire career. Totally subservient to the Old Firm with a diabolical embarrassing record against them (today made it ONE win in 18 giants Rangers as Hearts manager). 

 

8 games into him being forced to take the job and our record:

 

Won  3

Drawn 2

Lost 3

 

And in 8 games just 8 goals for. We've managed only 11 in our 12 league games which means only Killie are more toothless.

 

Undoubtably should have been punted with his protege. It will all end in tears for Levein at Heart which will be a shame given his history with us but its entirely his own fault.

 

The worry is that AB doesn't see the problem and it might be too late before she does.

[Don Dan]

9 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Get all the injuries chat, but the club formally known as Rangers had a large number of injuries today including both first choice centre backs.

But why start Moore who contributed zero instead of Milinkovic? who has shown up well but never starts?Throw a 16 year old in as your holding midfielder?

Play Brandon for a couple of weeks, then chuck in the worst player in the squad (grizly).Play Walker who has currently chucked in the towel?

Not totally blaming Levein but he does have to shoulder some of the blame. Thought at least a Levein team would be fired up, the number of players that got out muscled was frightening.

 

 

Hes not hid from his mistakes but not all are his despite what some would have us believe. 

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, Gambo said:

What have people seen in our league games that gives them the impression that Levein is the man for the job?

 

The football's poor.

The results have been poor.

 

What am I missing?

 

He's not had a chance to bring in his own signings yet. 

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Hes not hid from his mistakes but not all are his despite what some would have us believe. 

Agreed and every thing has not been his fault.

But and its a big but he does head up the football dept, and in any business structure when things are not going well, the ultimate responsibility lies at your door, whatever your role might be - DOF or Head Coach you carry the can, and unfortunately he has been the one constant through this period of decline.In that way people will put two and two together.

Personally I would like Craig to succeed. he is a PHM. But he has made life difficult for himself.

[Hendricks]

14 minutes ago, john5698 said:

Are you saying he wasn't a great player or was a decent manager the first time round. Just because you don't win anything doesn't mean you are a serial loser.

 

 

He was a great player. One of my heroes actually. Hs playing career ended ended (jeez makes me feel old) 30 years ago. He also did a good job first time around but again he left 13 years ago and has been binned from every job since!  So regardless of his past he is not the manager to take Hearts forward in 2017. Personally I think he can see the job far enough and it was self preservation taking on the role. For the job he has done overseeing the first team, his choice of his protege and the shambles that ensued and specifically for the truly horrendous recruitment he has, as DoF, been party to he should have been relieved of his duties. The pressure is going to mount on him that much is certain.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Hendricks

[51john51]

The club should have cut and run with Levein after Cathro, there are now too many legacy issues with him. 

 

Playing kids to deflect criticism over the awful squad he presided over disgusts me. Youngsters need to be brought in slowly and carefully and probably all loaned out first to prove themselves. 

 

I would not be too concerned if we cut him loose now. Let's be honest, there are lots of people wanting the Hearts managers job. 

 

I suspect Budge will give him the next transfer window.

 

We must not make the same mistakes that we did with Cathro and keep giving him extra time on some mythical promise that he will eventually come good. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by 51john51

[Manny1874]

56 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Calling grzelak the worst ever left back shows how short a memory Hearts fans have. 

 

He isn't even the worst left back we've had this calendar year. 

[Manny1874]

58 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

 

Double post. 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Manny1874

[john5698]

23 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

Okay. My belief is he was told he was taking the job.

Do you have an opinion or would you rather stick to asking others to provide proof of theirs?

I have only asked one person, you jumped onto my post.My opinion is that he was asked to do the job but was not told to take the job.

[henry]

Leveins problems started the summer before Neilson left. The squad didn’t get any quality added to it then Neilson left a failing team, Cathro the disaster came in & things went even further downhill. Another shocking January transfer window with players leaving & dross coming in. The summer signings with Cathro & McPhee was another mess. All overseen by Levein so the buck has to stop with him. He’s been fast asleep at the wheel. A complete James hunt has been made of the 1st team in the past 2-3 years. 

 

Its going to be too traumatic for Budge to get rid of him just now & im not so sure she wants to as she’s got too much on her mind. Problem is the no1 priority is winning games of football & that’s been neglected by the man she’s left in charge but it does need dealt with. 

[rudi must stay]

1 minute ago, 51john51 said:

The club should have cut and run with Levein after Cathro, there are now too many legacy issues with him. 

 

Playing kids to deflect criticism over the awful squad he presided over disgusts me. Youngsters need to be brought in slowly and carefully and probably all loaned out first to prove themselves. 

 

I would not be too concerned if we cut him loose now. Let's be honest, there are lots of people wanting the Hearts managers job. 

 

I suspect Budge will give him the next transfer window.

 

We must not make the same mistakes that we did with Cathro and keep giving him extra time on some mythical promise that he will eventually come good. 

 

Not sure now the time to part company with him, but too many more performances like this week, then he must go. 

 

 

 

He's giving them a chance because he has to. The minute Buaben, Cowie and Djoum return they'll be out the team. I do think he's the right man just now, he is a sensible man with plenty of experience

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, john5698 said:

I have only asked one person, you jumped onto my post.My opinion is that he was asked to do the job but was not told to take the job.

 

Its a recorded fact that he was asked to take the job. 

[Spencer]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

He’s certainly to blame for the last two team selections.

 

Has he been on the bevvy all week?

 

Thing is, there’s not much Levein can do until the transfer window and beyond. He’s got to scrape us enough points with a sub standard squad and keep morale high.

 

But imo, he’s not shown his managerial expertise in the last 4,5 days.

Would you trust him in the January transfer window? We've got no money if we're signing guys like Stockton and Callachan 

 

This squad has a bottom 6 look about it to me 

 

We've got numerous players who don't look good enough for this league 

[john5698]

7 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

 

He was a great player. One of my heroes actually. Hs playing career ended ended (jeez makes me feel old) 30 years ago. He also did a good job first time around but again he left 13 years ago and has been binned from every job since!  So regardless of his past he is not the manager to take Hearts forward in 2017. Personally I think he can see the job far enough and it was self preservation taking on the role. For the job he has done overseeing the first team, his choice of his protege and the shambles that ensued and specifically for the truly horrendous recruitment he has, as DoF, been party to he should have been relieved of his duties. The pressure is going to mount on him that much is certain.

I actually agree with you, I thought the whole lot should have been cleared out after the game at Easter Road in the cup. I only replied to someone who tried to make out that Levein was told to take the job, which cannot be proven, Anyway, there is  can of eckie and an OVD and coke with my name on it so it is goodnight from me.

[Gambo]

18 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

He's not had a chance to bring in his own signings yet. 

Yes I forgot he only walked through the door 3 month ago. :-)

[john5698]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Its a recorded fact that he was asked to take the job. 

I am on my way out but where is this recorded? 

[51john51]

1 minute ago, rudi must stay said:

 

I do think he's the right man just now, he is a sensible man with plenty of experience

 

Is like the Cathro thing all over again. "Why don't we just give him the next transfer window".  

 

He was a reasonable manager before, but that is history,  and categorically no influence whatsoever on what will happen in the future. 

 

If he is the right man, why is our football squad so absolutely abysmal, when he was supposed to be DOF. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Don Dan]

Just now, john5698 said:

I am on my way out but where is this recorded? 

 

Interviews with Craig himself along with Ann and the other Dirrctors. 

[Debut 4]

1 minute ago, Spencer said:

Would you trust him in the January transfer window? We've got no money if we're signing guys like Stockton and Callachan 

 

This squad has a bottom 6 look about it to me 

 

We've got numerous players who don't look good enough for this league 

I think on another thread I brought into question (while trusting him as a manager) his ability to identify good players for Hearts in his DOF role IF he did have a say in transfers.

 

I don't have evidence myself but there's a lot of talk being put around we use Wyscout.(sp?). I'm sure we get players through different ways but if this is one you can almost tell what players they are.

 

Its just lazy recruitment imo. Ok, in a football network you have trust in your scouts and people who maybe bring attention to players but surely you still want to see them for yourself?

 

 

[john5698]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Interviews with Craig himself along with Ann and the other Dirrctors. 

So are you saying this is recorded in boardroom minutes?

[Gigolo-Aunt]

23 minutes ago, Gambo said:

What have people seen in our league games that gives them the impression that Levein is the man for the job?

 

The football's poor.

The results have been poor.

 

What am I missing?

 

Think there is a hope that he can make players currently at the club better players, weed out the players not good enough and be able to work some magic come January should we be in a position to bring players in.

 

The above may all happen but last week has shown up how poor a side we are and in both games I never felt "we are up for this", which is something with a Levein side that surprised me.   Mleting long balls up to Lafferty who more often than not is isolated looks like tactics that are outdated.   I do have a concern with his comments about only spending a couple of days of the week with the players and the other sessions the players are left with the coaches - again I'm very surprised with that.   As with all things though in football, time will tell.

 

 

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, john5698 said:

So are you saying this is recorded in boardroom minutes?

 

Asked why he had taken the job Levein, who will continue to sit on the board, said: "Because I was asked and because I wanted to do it.

"There is a moment when it is right and that moment is now. The club is in a fairly healthy place. In my role as director of football, I've been able to build the club back up from where it was to the place where it is just now, which I think is in very good shape and makes it possible for me to do the two jobs at once.

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-ideal-man-for-ann-budge-1-4544909/amp

Edited October 28, 2017 by Dannie Boy

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, Oliver Twist said:

Why can Mitch abuse my team and I can't abuse Mitch ?

Our team is being abused, mismanaged,

 disgraced and made to look pathetic.

You can abuse me all you like big boy but anyone who harms the Hearts will get slagged off by me. 

[132goals1958]

Tin hat on here as I know I will be in the minority. I always rated Sam Nicholson as a player and for the life of me I am surprised that we did not see fit to offer him an improved contract. Watching the game today there were a number of players who are nowhere his ability ---- no names no pack drill but  I would take him back tomorrow in a heartbeat.  

[oi oi]

I've consistently said that he is the problem for over a year now. I don't hate him but I strongly dislike him. He has come out and said we have a way of playing and backed Neilson and Cathro (and Daly) to deliver that philosophy. 

 

He has had a hand in signing all players for the past few years and the ones that've been brought in have largely been atrocious. If he thinks we have a way of playing then it shouldn't need yet another overhaul. It should need specific players brought in to slot into our style. I could understand that with Cathro's moneyball approach but Cathro was not the guy to front that in public.

 

The truth though appears to be that  Levein is now favouring hoofball and is clueless. Why trust him to bring anymore players in? Walker will hopefully be offski in January but there's also a fear for me that Lafferty will follow and we're back to square one.

[rudi must stay]

9 minutes ago, 51john51 said:

 

Is like the Cathro thing all over again. "Why don't we just give him the next transfer window".  

 

He was a reasonable manager before, but that is history,  and categorically no influence whatsoever on what will happen in the future. 

 

If he is the right man, why is our football squad so absolutely abysmal, when he was supposed to be DOF. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think his comments so far suggest he was involved with the youth academy and not the first team

[Coco]

Results vs Rangers and Celtic are obviously only a part of management but Levein's record illustrates why he has not really had any 'big' wins in his managerial career.  

 

Hearts record vs Rangers (league games) 1 win, 3 draws, 13 losses.  Hearts vs Celtic 1 win, 2 draws, 12 losses.

 

Dundee United vs Rangers 2 wins, 3 draws, 6 losses.  Dundee United vs Celtic 1 win, 7 draws, 4 losses.

 

Overall 5 wins, 15 draws, 35 losses.

[john5698]

11 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Asked why he had taken the job Levein, who will continue to sit on the board, said: "Because I was asked and because I wanted to do it.

"There is a moment when it is right and that moment is now. The club is in a fairly healthy place. In my role as director of football, I've been able to build the club back up from where it was to the place where it is just now, which I think is in very good shape and makes it possible for me to do the two jobs at once.

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/hearts/craig-levein-ideal-man-for-ann-budge-1-4544909/amp

Don't see anything in there to say he was told to take the job, says he was asked.

[amadjambo]

29 minutes ago, Manny1874 said:

 

He isn't even the worst left back we've had this calendar year. 

I would disagree. At least Oshaniwa and Sowah had a little bit of pace. Grezlak has nothing.

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, john5698 said:

Don't see anything in there to say he was told to take the job, says he was asked.

 

 

precisely. McDonald Jardine said he was told when in truth he was asked.

 

I hope we’ve not been talking a cross purposes   

Edited October 28, 2017 by Dannie Boy

[Bighenry]

Our squad is poor . Even without the injuries we have. The best manager in the world can't change that. Would not make a difference. Signings may have been partly due to his input but we are toiling for quality players.Thats the facts

[john5698]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

 

precisely. McDonald Jardine said he was told when in truth he was asked.

 

I hope we’ve not been talking a cross purposes   

Ha Ha looks like we have been, need to take my mind of my night out, apologies

[Don Dan]

Just now, john5698 said:

Ha Ha looks like we have been, need to take my mind of my night out, apologies

 

Enjoy your night out?

[Finlay James]

I'm a fan of Levein but the last two games have exposed us badly.  We really need these injuries to clear up, particularly in midfield as we are now being over ran.  Once Cowie, Djoum are back, it gives us experience and options.  Callachan and Cochrane in particular should be introduced slowly to the team as they are not ready for the expectations of playing for a Hearts but this is not Leveins fault as he didn't injure the players.  They will both, along with Henderson, be good players for us in 2-3 years but we can't expect them to hit the ground running without having good experience and professionals around them.

 

Smith-Brown being injured has been a huge blow for us.  He looks a real talent and would have been an asset to us defensively and in attack.  We have had no luck at all in that area but of course, this has been caused by not recruiting there properly when Eckersley left.  Signing Grzelak was a huge mistake, he's just not a Hearts class at all.  Michael smith has also regressed and not the solid player we all thought this past few games.  

 

my worry though is that Levein doesn't have the appetite for the head coach role.  He clearly really enjoys the DOF role and all that it involves but I don't see the same sparkle or desire for being so hands on and coaching again.  Not ITK but it's just a sense that I get.  I spoke to him last week and got the feeling he isn't really enjoying it.  I could be wrong of course and hope that I am.

 

getting rid of Levein now though would be crazy.  The last 2 games aside, we have looked more solid and next week is a good chance to get back on track.  He needs a transfer window to do some wheeling and dealing to give us a lift.  If we get beat off Killie though, I'm worried about our ability to get to January without things completely imploding as I'm struggling to see where the inspiration is coming from.

 

on a positive note, the 4-5 boys out in loan continue to score goals and do well.  Hopefully, they will be fighting for a 1st team place at Hearts next season.  

 

 

[kingantti1874]

59 minutes ago, Gambo said:

What have people seen in our league games that gives them the impression that Levein is the man for the job?

 

The football's poor.

The results have been poor.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

The fact he's done a great job before and tbh I think results and performances have improved.. That wouldn't have been difficult right enough.. 

 

 

Fundemental problem is a chronically poor (and thin) squad.. We've a schoolboy and a guy from Raith in midfield.. The manager isn't the problem 

 

However - levein must take responsibility for the state of the squad.. Directly or through support for failed managers we have been an absolute shambolic in our recruitment.. No plan, mixed styles.. Just awful.. We need to Improve after Jan window 

[H2]

There is a balance required. It really does not matter if you think CL is a good or bad appointment, you surely want him to succeed, if you don't want him to scceed then it follows you don't want Hearts to succeed, and that begs many other questions. It is far better to put your energy into supporting his success than wasting it neagtively to the detriment of HMFC.

[Finlay James]

5 minutes ago, H2 said:

There is a balance required. It really does not matter if you think CL is a good or bad appointment, you surely want him to succeed, if you don't want him to scceed then it follows you don't want Hearts to succeed, and that begs many other questions. It is far better to put your energy into supporting his success than wasting it neagtively to the detriment of HMFC.

 

100% spot on, I just can't get my head round anyone who calls the self a Hearts fan but doesn't want our manager to succeed.

[henry]

44 minutes ago, Bighenry said:

Our squad is poor . Even without the injuries we have. The best manager in the world can't change that. Would not make a difference. Signings may have been partly due to his input but we are toiling for quality players.Thats the facts

 

Think Levein initially improved the team by simply getting then fit. It was incredible that under Cathro they weren’t fit & I suspect there’s still some that aren’t there yet. The problem now is as you have correctly pointed out. The lack of quality players. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, john5698 said:

Are you saying he wasn't a great player or was a decent manager the first time round. Just because you don't win anything doesn't mean you are a serial loser.

It does if you don't set your team up to win big games or cup games.  Levein won't win us a trophy but I am sure he will get us top 6 and allow someone else, probably Michael O'Neill to take over next summer

[Guffers]

1 hour ago, Manny1874 said:

 

He isn't even the worst left back we've had this calendar year. 

 

You're havin a laugh mate.. that performance was an absolute embaressment for a professional footballer today, can only assume you weren't watching that closely.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, Gambo said:

Good luck with this one.

 

Levein can do NO WRONG for some on here. They will find any excuse not to put any blame on Levein.

Music to your ears threads like this Gambo eh?

[Manny1874]

17 minutes ago, Guffers said:

 

You're havin a laugh mate.. that performance was an absolute embaressment for a professional footballer today, can only assume you weren't watching that closely.

Didn't say he didn't play badly. 

 

My point was more that Sowah turned in worse performances. 

[Huguenot]

Ross County and Killie pick up EPL class managers. We get saddled with a guy past his sell by date, who had a gun put to his head.

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Hendricks said:

 

 

He was a great player. One of my heroes actually. Hs playing career ended ended (jeez makes me feel old) 30 years ago. He also did a good job first time around but again he left 13 years ago and has been binned from every job since!  So regardless of his past he is not the manager to take Hearts forward in 2017. Personally I think he can see the job far enough and it was self preservation taking on the role. For the job he has done overseeing the first team, his choice of his protege and the shambles that ensued and specifically for the truly horrendous recruitment he has, as DoF, been party to he should have been relieved of his duties. The pressure is going to mount on him that much is certain.

 

Doubt that.

[Hendricks]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Doubt that.

 

Without question. Robbo, JC, Sandy Clark, him and Gary Mackay. My favorite players of the mid 80's. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Hendricks said:

 

Without question. Robbo, JC, Sandy Clark, him and Gary Mackay. My favorite players of the mid 80's. 

 

Still doubt that.

[Hendricks]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Still doubt that.

 

Cool. Jog on.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Hendricks said:

 

Cool. Jog on.

 

Why?