Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Id like to bet thats exactly how Scotland is viewed. IE know their place. We do though. 

Sit down. Shut up. 

 

Would love to know if that's accurate.

 

What did they imagine would happen by going into a C&S arrangement with the DUP?     Without it they would never have been able to form a government.

[Ibrahim Tall]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Would love to know if that's accurate.

 

What did they imagine would happen by going into a C&S arrangement with the DUP?     Without it they would never have been able to form a government.

 

Probably that they’d be as spineless as Clegg was.

[Francis Albert]

The sheer idiocy of the Twitter world summarised in the last few posts..

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I have to say the "trailer" led me to expect more than a list of the UK's seven deadly sins in relation to understanding Ireland's position with little substantiation or justification beyond shallow assertion. But then this is in the comic that it is now and not what was once a great newspaper.

If McDonagh's analysis and argument is typical of the Irish Diplomatic corps (which I doubt) then it would not be surprising if the UK did indeed misunderstand Ireland's position.

I was going to attempt a fuller critique of McDonagh's article but haven't had the time. But let me give one example. He claims that one of the misunderstandings is that the UK fails to understand that Ireland sees its future in the EU and not in the UK. It is nearly a century since anyone with half a brain or even none thought Ireland's future belonged in the UK.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Victorian]

John Redwood explaining his Brexit fantasy on Newsnight.     He was better at singing the Welsh national anthem.

 

****ing maniac.

[jake]

14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

John Redwood explaining his Brexit fantasy on Newsnight.     He was better at singing the Welsh national anthem.

 

****ing maniac.

Not a fan but he put Kirsty in her place.

The interviewing persists In being editorial on newsnight.

 

[Toggie88]

Sturgeon should go ahead and call an independence referendum. This is beyond a shambles and we potential have a parachute if we bail now, she has the mandate - this (Brextastro****) is not what people voted for in 2014. 

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

I'm not sure what point McDonagh is trying to make.

 

 

That's no problem, I'm sure others will get it.

[Ulysses]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Duncan Smith on the news. His genius plan? If we don't get what we want then the £39bn and EU access to UK markets is off the table!

 

Bless him. He probably believes it.

 

[JamboX2]

6 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

Sturgeon should go ahead and call an independence referendum. This is beyond a shambles and we potential have a parachute if we bail now, she has the mandate - this (Brextastro****) is not what people voted for in 2014. 

 

That would totally derail everything. This has to be s step by step approach. There is simply not the time, resource and man power for this now. Whatever your view on it there will be no vote because they know there can be no vote.

 

Both parliaments, governments and civil servants working for both are flat out on Brexit work. There are 700 SIs and 4 major Acts still to get through to Brexit in March. A vote now is simply not feasible.

 

It'd paralyze the nation and deepen this crisis.

[jake]

2 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

That would totally derail everything. This has to be s step by step approach. There is simply not the time, resource and man power for this now. Whatever your view on it there will be no vote because they know there can be no vote.

 

Both parliaments, governments and civil servants working for both are flat out on Brexit work. There are 700 SIs and 4 major Acts still to get through to Brexit in March. A vote now is simply not feasible.

 

It'd paralyze the nation and deepen this crisis.

Paralyze the nation from what ?

[AlphonseCapone]

8 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

That would totally derail everything. This has to be s step by step approach. There is simply not the time, resource and man power for this now. Whatever your view on it there will be no vote because they know there can be no vote.

 

Both parliaments, governments and civil servants working for both are flat out on Brexit work. There are 700 SIs and 4 major Acts still to get through to Brexit in March. A vote now is simply not feasible.

 

It'd paralyze the nation and deepen this crisis.

 

No they aren't. 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Would love to know if that's accurate.

 

 

It's true there's a story, at any rate.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46528952

 

Unfortunately, there are some eejits who think that Ireland should "know its place", or have some "loyalty" to the UK, or even that its interests lie with or in the UK.

 

Here's a link to a piece I posted earlier by Bobby McDonagh, who was Ireland's ambassador to the UK from 2009-2013.  McDonagh was educated at Bailliol Colege, Oxford.  Before serving as Ireland's ambassador to the UK he was Ireland's Permanent Representative to the EU, and he is currently ambassador to Italy.

 

It's a very simple to understand piece that describes how the UK has gone backwards in its capacity to understand its nearest neighbour and how to relate to it.   Regrettably, the UK seems to have gone backwards in its capacity to understand any of its neighbours and how to relate to them, which is astonishing given the history of world-class political and diplomatic analysis that served the UK well over decades.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/10/priti-patel-brexit-ignorance-ireland-vote-uk

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

That would totally derail everything. This has to be s step by step approach. There is simply not the time, resource and man power for this now. Whatever your view on it there will be no vote because they know there can be no vote.

 

Both parliaments, governments and civil servants working for both are flat out on Brexit work. There are 700 SIs and 4 major Acts still to get through to Brexit in March. A vote now is simply not feasible.

 

It'd paralyze the nation and deepen this crisis.

Matron, he's out his room again.

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I was going to attempt a fuller critique of McDonagh's article but haven't had the time. But let me give one example. He claims that one of the misunderstandings is that the UK fails to understand that Ireland sees its future in the EU and not in the UK. It is nearly a century since anyone with half a brain or even none thought Ireland's future belonged in the UK.

Aye , but people keep telling us how great it is, surely someone will come back, no?

[Don Dan]

19 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yes

 

If Government can be brought down 

 

No confidence motion triggered!!

 

[Jaap's Sigh]

Leadership challenge today. Curtains for May I think. 

[Boris]

Tory party in meltdown, may to face vote of confidence by her MPs. 

[Don Dan]

Will she win it though?

 

anyone from any party will have an impossible job getting a deal with the EU that a majority of MPs agree on. 

[Sarah O]

More May-hem from the Tory party and the UK government.

 

Wake up Scotland, it's time we packed our bags. We're going to Euuuuuuroope! 

[JamboX2]

8 hours ago, jake said:

Paralyze the nation from what ?

 

The UK is currently experiencing the biggest political and economic shift for decades. If not half a century. The government is pretty much doing nothing much else of note other than preparing for multiple forms of Brexit. The pound is at historic lows. There is less investment in the economy due to the uncertainty and parliament's timetable is front loaded on Brexit; look at a parliamentary calendar and it's mostly Brexit bills. Along side that are reportedly 700 secondary legislative instruments to be drafted and put before the HoC.

 

Holyrood also has a raft of Brexit work to finalise.

 

There is simply no resource to pass legislation, run and hold a referendum on independence. Nor is there time. Even a people's vote would be troublesome in the time alloted; although more relevant to events. To do indyref now would be to effectively crashing the nation.

 

No country would be able to manage both such huge events at the same time. None.

[JamboX2]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Matron, he's out his room again.

 

Speaking in the third person?

[JamboX2]

8 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

No they aren't. 

 

Most of the government is in many ways moving to Brexit preparedness work in the next month. There have been rotations of staff around the government to focus on Brexit. Trust me the priority is getting through this without blowing everything up.

 

The idea that there's a will from either government to hold an indyref is ludicrous. If it was Sturgeon wouldn't be bothering with the current Brexit debate.

[SE16 3LN]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

That's no problem, I'm sure others will get it.

Disgraceful editing to try and score a cheap and childish point. Absolutely disgusted with you of all people. I hope you're ashamed of yourself.

[manaliveits105]

and the SNP policies are all prepared and ready to go of course .......

what are they again  ?

[Des Lynam]

23 hours ago, Victorian said:

Leadsom criticising the speaker and questioning his impartiality.      This after the government tried to conceal the legal advice,   defied parliament's will to have it published and were found in contempt.    Then of course wasting 3 full days of parliamentary debating time over a vote they shat out of.

 

Yeah that's right... turn the spotlight on the speaker.     That'll make people forget the arse you've made of it all.

 

The tories hate Bercow. Creepy Hague tried to get rid of him in an appalling manner. 

 

I’m going to sit back and enjoy this Tory bun fight. 

[Pans Jambo]

May was about greetin on the steps of number 10 this morning. Shame that!

 

More calamity from the tory party this morning.

 

Wait, am I on the right thread here? It's hard to tell the Brexit and tory bashing thread apart these days 

[Francis Albert]

40 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Disgraceful editing to try and score a cheap and childish point. Absolutely disgusted with you of all people. I hope you're ashamed of yourself.

Uly is a master of the partial quote.

You got off lightly. With his replies to me recently Uly habitually  edits my posts by deleting every word and inserting "[Content deleted to avoid misleading"] or some such phrase.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Victorian]

It's a big step from 48 letters to that arsepiece Brady to 158 votes against her.    She'll probably survive the vote.

 

Normal convention is that a leader would still be in trouble if a significant number voted against them.     The number being bandied about was 100.    If there was 100 or so votes against then cabinet would discuss the merits of the leader staying.    If they were minded to they could pressurise the leader to resign.

 

This particular PM and her utterly spineless cabinet will probably just horse on with her in post.      

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Dannie Boy said:

Will she win it though?

 

anyone from any party will have an impossible job getting a deal with the EU that a majority of MPs agree on. 

 

Who says there has to be a deal? 

 

Do the Tories go baw deep with the Rees Moggs and we end up in free trade nirvana? Or do they vascilate further, leading us in circles, perhaps ending up in a second referendum? Or does Parliament take control and we end up with a GE? 

[Francis Albert]

12 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Maybe this is how it all went wrong 

 

 

We are repeatedly told by Remainers that when circumstances change it would be insane not to change your mind.

[Boris]

This is the hard Brexit takeover. Labour want this as they feel it makes them more electable due to the shit storm coming, but history shows the well intentioned left get left behind by jingoistic fervour. Buckle up! 

[Boris]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

We are repeatedly told by Remainers that when circumstances change it would be insane not to change your mind.

 

And they have changed because we have a better idea of what Brexit means! 

[JimKongUno]

Knee jerk Nicola ranting at Corbyn to table no confidence , Jezza takes a step back and thinks for a minute before giving May the rope to hang herself.

Sturgeon could learn a thing or 2 from old Jeremy

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

Will she win it though?

 

anyone from any party will have an impossible job getting a deal with the EU that a majority of MPs agree on. 

Probably the main underlying cause of the current debacle is that MPs voted by a huge majority (85%) to hold the referendum and then a similar majority stood in a GE with a manifesto committed to Leave while knowing that there was and would not be a majority in Parliament for any deal. Ignorance, cynicism? I know where my money goes.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

Knee jerk Nicola ranting at Corbyn to table no confidence , Jezza takes a step back and thinks for a minute before giving May the rope to hang herself.

Sturgeon could learn a thing or 2 from old Jeremy

 

Nicola wants No Confidence Motion  she knows is likely to fail. Tories and DUP have a majority and do not want a general election.

 

Wonder what her motives are? 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, JimKongUno said:

Knee jerk Nicola ranting at Corbyn to table no confidence , Jezza takes a step back and thinks for a minute before giving May the rope to hang herself.

Sturgeon could learn a thing or 2 from old Jeremy

I think after over 2 years "knee jerking" has passed.

Jezza didnt take a "step-back". He shat it because he's spineless and he wouldnt know what to do if he got the keys to number 10.

Labour needs a leader that can lead. The man stutters his speeches in Parliament. Nobody has any confidence in the man. Its a shame.

[Francis Albert]

20 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

And they have changed because we have a better idea of what Brexit means! 

We don't really, not much. It was never going to be easy or clean and we don't yet know what the relationship with the EU will be after the transition.

The big change in circumstance since the piece dragged up by Channel 4 News is that the day afterwards the referendum vote was in favour of Leaving.

And then there was a General Election in which both major parties campaigned with a commitment to Leave.

[Victorian]

Labour are very much on an election footing.     They need to separate themselves from the SNP and to win votes in Scotland and avoid losing them in England.     Any perception of an alliance with the SNP (Scottish people - tail wagging the dog) is election poison for Labour.

 

If and when an election happens,   the Tories will go on the full attack about Lab-SNP coalition government to try to enrage people in England that Scotland will have too big a say.     Labour know this and must avoid any perception of cooperation like the plague.

[Inch Hearts]

Imagine May losing the vote and Jacob Rees-Mogg leading us into hard Brexit?  

[JamboX2]

45 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I think after over 2 years "knee jerking" has passed.

Jezza didnt take a "step-back". He shat it because he's spineless and he wouldnt know what to do if he got the keys to number 10.

 

I think they were right not to table it on the events of the past night. It looks as though this is giving the job of undermining the Tories a vote would not have. 

 

On the other side if May wins she must now rely on the rest of parliament and not the ERG and DUP to pass a deal. So there's a lot of capital handed to the opposition here.

 

45 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Labour needs a leader that can lead. The man stutters his speeches in Parliament. Nobody has any confidence in the man. Its a shame.

 

Agreed. Although i don't think his stuttering is much of an issue. I think it's his lack of leadership over the past few months which has done for him.

[Sooperstar]

May will win this vote I'm certain. Doesn't mean she will survive it though.

[JamboX2]

30 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Labour are very much on an election footing.     They need to separate themselves from the SNP and to win votes in Scotland and avoid losing them in England.     Any perception of an alliance with the SNP (Scottish people - tail wagging the dog) is election poison for Labour.

 

If and when an election happens,   the Tories will go on the full attack about Lab-SNP coalition government to try to enrage people in England that Scotland will have too big a say.     Labour know this and must avoid any perception of cooperation like the plague.

 

A symbol of the juvenile nature of our politics. In Germany the CDU always govern in part because of Bavaria's CSU. Does that give Bavaria too much of a say?

 

It's all nonsense. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

A symbol of the juvenile nature of our politics. In Germany the CDU always govern in part because of Bavaria's CSU. Does that give Bavaria too much of a say?

 

It's all nonsense. 

 

Welcome to the UK.    A union of equal partner nations.   Lol.

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

A symbol of the juvenile nature of our politics. In Germany the CDU always govern in part because of Bavaria's CSU. Does that give Bavaria too much of a say?

 

It's all nonsense. 

But Germany is federal, the UK isn't 

 

[Inch Hearts]

7 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

May will win this vote I'm certain. Doesn't mean she will survive it though.

 

1/5 on to win. 

[Victorian]

David Davis 'launching' a legal text of his way forward on Brexit.    That should be sufficiently demented.

 

David Cameron has the utter gall to stick his head out from under his rock to back May.      

[AlimOzturk]

?

 

this is better than house of cards. In fact I can see making a great TV script in the future. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by AlimOzturk

[Cade]

Tory MPs demanding new referendum (on party leader) as circumstances have changed since 2016

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Cade

[Justin Z]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

Tory MPs demanding new referendum (on party leader) as circumstances have changed since 2016