Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Not just incorrect, but so incorrect as to be at best, intellectually dishonest.

 

 

I am not sure it is quite as incorrect or dishonest as you suggest. As I understand it if you are self-employed (as in for example all those East Europeans working in hand car washes) or just genuinely  looking for work freedom of movement allows you to move freely.

I am not incidentally saying that is necessarily a bad thing. Discriminatory for those not citizens of the EU, well yes.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Francis Albert

[frankblack]

32 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Not just incorrect, but so incorrect as to be at best, intellectually dishonest.

 

 

 

 

Oh dear.  The desperate troll fails again - soundbites don't make your argument any less irrelevant.

 

Usual tactic from you - don't debate the point, attack the person.  Good to see you are running scared.

 

 

[Justin Z]

24 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

As I understand it if you are self-employed (as in for example all those East Europeans working in hand car washes) or just genuinely  looking for work freedom of movement allows you to move freely.

 

True, but that's a far cry from "regardless of whether there is work for them", which the resident liar said.

[Boris]

11 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Your intransigence on this stuff is astonishing. Anything to defend your beloved Capitalist super state I suppose

 

Hang on, one minute it's individual states, now it's the super state!

 

Which is it?

[ri Alban]

20 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Hang on, one minute it's individual states, now it's the super state!

 

Which is it?

I know, he can't even agree with himself.

[The Mighty Thor]

12 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Both Emmanuel Macron today, and Angela Merkel yesterday, gave the British PM a glimmer of hope of pulling off his plan to leave the EU with a deal which does not include the hated Irish backstop.

Which of course neither of them did.

 

Merkel told him to find the unicorns and Macron humoured the arsehole before reiterating that the backstop stays. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Both Emmanuel Macron today, and Angela Merkel yesterday, gave the British PM a glimmer of hope of pulling off his plan to leave the EU with a deal which does not include the hated Irish backstop.

Everything is going to be wonderful.

[Don Dan]

17 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Which of course neither of them did.

 

Merkel told him to find the unicorns and Macron humoured the arsehole before reiterating that the backstop stays. 

 

Not true. 

[Don Dan]

9 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Everything is going to be wonderful.

 

I hope you are right. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I hope you are right. 

The UK will be fantastic.

[Don Dan]

3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The UK will be fantastic.

 

It is already. That’s why thousands want to come here.

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

It is already. That’s why thousands want to come here.

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Not true. 

You need to read the international news agencies not the uk red tops.

Merkel offered no concession at all. She outlined that whilst the UK has been looking for solutions for two years if they are available as Johnson suggests then they should be found in 30 days. 

The translation is freely available on line.

 

Nothing has changed. Johnson returns to the UK with the same as May did. 

It's a Conservative party created and exacerbated problem and time and the lies are running out.

[SectionDJambo]

22 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You need to read the international news agencies not the uk red tops.

Merkel offered no concession at all. She outlined that whilst the UK has been looking for solutions for two years if they are available as Johnson suggests then they should be found in 30 days. 

The translation is freely available on line.

 

Nothing has changed. Johnson returns to the UK with the same as May did. 

It's a Conservative party created and exacerbated problem and time and the lies are running out.

A guy on the news, last night, quoted a German journalist, living for some time in the UK, that she must have allowed her German to get rusty, as she didn't hear Merkel say what the UK red tops reported. 

This is going to turn into a blame game by the ERG and their mates if it all goes badly after Halloween. It will be Johnny Foreigner's fault that they didn't just do as they were obliged to do.

[Don Dan]

25 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You need to read the international news agencies not the uk red tops.

Merkel offered no concession at all. She outlined that whilst the UK has been looking for solutions for two years if they are available as Johnson suggests then they should be found in 30 days. 

The translation is freely available on line.

 

Nothing has changed. Johnson returns to the UK with the same as May did. 

It's a Conservative party created and exacerbated problem and time and the lies are running out.

 

Previously I post various links as to what was said as well as hearing it live from Macron and Merkel.

If a solution to the Irish Border can be found then the Backstop will go. 

There was piece on BBC News yesterday  about various measures that are used in other countries. The people being interviewed said that Barnier is aware of these checks. May never even bothered presenting them during the negotiations! 

Anyway Unicorns or not the door is open for something to happen. Let’s see what Boris comes up with in the time frame given. 

[Don Dan]

37 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

 

Drag yourself of the couch and get over to France and tell the many desperate and dying to get here that the UK crap. Take your wee laughing face with you too it will go down a bundle over there I’m sure.

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Drag yourself of the couch and get over to France and tell the many desperate and dying to get here that the UK crap. Take your wee laughing face with you too it will go down a bundle over there I’m sure.

[Boris]

19 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Previously I post various links as to what was said as well as hearing it live from Macron and Merkel.

If a solution to the Irish Border can be found then the Backstop will go. 

There was piece on BBC News yesterday  about various measures that are used in other countries. The people being interviewed said that Barnier is aware of these checks. May never even bothered presenting them during the negotiations! 

Anyway Unicorns or not the door is open for something to happen. Let’s see what Boris comes up with in the time frame given. 

 

And it's up to Johnson to find it, not the EU!

 

Merkel & Macron have turned the tables on Johnson - come up with a feasible solution and we're good - thus taking the ability for Johnson to blame the EU.

 

Ball is in his court now.

[The Mighty Thor]

16 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Previously I post various links as to what was said as well as hearing it live from Macron and Merkel.

If a solution to the Irish Border can be found then the Backstop will go. 

There was piece on BBC News yesterday  about various measures that are used in other countries. The people being interviewed said that Barnier is aware of these checks. May never even bothered presenting them during the negotiations! 

Anyway Unicorns or not the door is open for something to happen. Let’s see what Boris comes up with in the time frame given. 

Read the translation of what she actuall said, then read her subsequent interviews. They are on line and they are free.

 

No solution to the Irish brder will be found because there is no will to do so. It's all irrelevant as there will not be a deal. That's been the strategy from the off.

As for your comments on the 'off the shelf' solutions, if they were viable do you not think they would have been pursued? Or indeed do you not think that the UK would have done work over the last 2 years on recruiting border staff or customs inspectors to facilitate these 'away from the border' solutions? Why do you think they have not?

 

Boris will come up with nothing. Nada. Bupkis. It's all a show, part of the greatest grift of all time, where a very small number of people will make a very large amount of money from trashing the UK economy in full view of every single one of the country's inhabitants, the majority of whom subscribe to it and fully endorse it.

 

If they're that stupid, why wouldn't you fill your boots. 

 

 

[Don Dan]

22 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

And it's up to Johnson to find it, not the EU!

 

Merkel & Macron have turned the tables on Johnson - come up with a feasible solution and we're good - thus taking the ability for Johnson to blame the EU.

 

Ball is in his court now.

 

Your are right. The ball is in Johnson court to come up with an acceptable plan. 

I suspect he will have one. 

My guess is he will present a plan that will be acceptable but not immediately workable and the date of leaving will be shifted again to allow for implementation. He will then call a GE with the belief he will win it. 

[Don Dan]

24 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

As for your comments on the 'off the shelf' solutions, if they were viable do you not think they would have been pursued? 

 

May new they were there (according to the Danish guy interviewed yesterday) but never offered them as an alternative. She agreed the current Backstop with the EU. 

I still firmly believe the Backstop will be replaced. 

[SE16 3LN]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Hang on, one minute it's individual states, now it's the super state!

 

Which is it?

You've lost the argument, again, so you're clouding the issue with this shit and trying to play the man. Try harder...

[SE16 3LN]

12 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Says the UK fanboy. Ra Ra Ra!

One again you make a ***** of yourself . I'll say it again because you clearly have the memory of a goldfish: 

 

SE16 3LN is an internationalist not an Nationalist.

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

One again you make a ***** of yourself . I'll say it again because you clearly have the memory of a goldfish: 

 

SE16 3LN is an internationalist not an Nationalist.

An internationalist espousing isolationist views?

[redjambo]

16 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

You've lost the argument, again, so you're clouding the issue with this shit and trying to play the man. Try harder...

 

9 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

One again you make a ***** of yourself . I'll say it again because you clearly have the memory of a goldfish: 

 

SE16 3LN is an internationalist not an Nationalist.

 

Ahem.

[Francis Albert]

11 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

True, but that's a far cry from "regardless of whether there is work for them", which the resident liar said.

I honestly don't know much difference there is. The Office of National Statistics has admitted that it has been seriously underestimating immigration from the EU for many years and has "humiliatingly" (Guardian word) had to admit that its methodology is "experimental".  It apparently consists of asking a sample of entrants to the UK whether and how long they intend to stay with no follow up as to how many do stay and for how long. I don't know how those who come to look for work  are ever deported if they fail to find it ... I suspect we would have heard of protests from the Europhile liberals (chaining themselves to aircraft doors and such) if it happened much.

Anyway ONS based claims over the last two or three years that the Leave vote led to a reduction in EU immigration (of which the Remainers made much play) have been wholly discredited.

But while such basic historic data is simply wrong the "experts" can apparently confidently predict the impact of Brexit on the economy year by year to the late 2030s and beyond.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Boris]

29 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

You've lost the argument, again, so you're clouding the issue with this shit and trying to play the man. Try harder...

 

Play the man?  What are you on about?

[Justin Z]

13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I honestly don't know much difference there is. The Office of National Statistics has admitted that it has been seriously underestimating immigration from the EU for many years and has "humiliatingly" (Guardian word) had to admit that its methodology is "experimental".

 

Since the resident liar's lie was about EU freedom of movement "allowing" people to go wherever they want, whether there was a job available or not, the UK government's inability to develop a system accurately measuring immigration or, if such a problem existed, dealing with it, has little to do with much at all.

 

Your point here is taken but in defence of a xenophobic horseshit lie, it's ill-considered.

[SE16 3LN]

40 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

 

Ahem.

Sometimes you have to defend yourself 

[SE16 3LN]

27 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Play the man?  What are you on about?

I rest my case

[Boris]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

I rest my case

 

Asking someone a question isn't "playing the man", is it?

[SE16 3LN]

43 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

An internationalist espousing isolationist views?

An Internationalist exposing the contradictions of Global Capitalism,.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

I rest my case

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Asking someone a question isn't "playing the man", is it?

Asking someone what they're on about isn't generally seen as a good thing is it.? 

Edited August 23, 2019 by SE16 3LN

[Boris]

Just now, SE16 3LN said:

Asking someone what they're on about isn't generally seen as a good thing is it.? 

 

Neither is accusing someone of doing something that they haven't, wouldn't you say?

 

Anyways, before asking what you "were on about", in respect of "playing the man", you said that I had "played the man".

 

Merely enquiring as to how and where.

[jake]

Anyone else noticing the irony between the snp nonsense and brexit threads.

 

 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Anyone else noticing the irony between the snp nonsense and brexit threads.

 

 

 

Can't say I'd noticed an irony. Maybe one in the Alanis Morissette sense, i.e. totally not ironic.

 

Does seem like there have been about four threads lately where various intersecting topics have been discussed though. Kind of a nightmare for trying to keep things straight.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, jake said:

Anyone else noticing the irony between the snp nonsense and brexit threads.

 

 

One is about people looking for a self determined Scotland taking its place internationally and the other is about a group of racist and xenophobic little englanders dragging the UK back into the Victorian era?

 

Nah I'm not seeing it.

[dobmisterdobster]

10 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

One is about people looking for a self determined Scotland taking its place internationally and the other is about a group of racist and xenophobic little englanders dragging the UK back into the Victorian era?

 

Nah I'm not seeing it.

Spotted the open-minded tolerant liberal. Pleased to meet you.

[Justin Z]

wAaAaHh WhY wOn'T yOu ToLeRaTe My InToLeRaNcE

[dobmisterdobster]

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

wAaAaHh WhY wOn'T yOu ToLeRaTe My InToLeRaNcE

I think you're projecting a wee bit there pal.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

Since the resident liar's lie was about EU freedom of movement "allowing" people to go wherever they want, whether there was a job available or not, the UK government's inability to develop a system accurately measuring immigration or, if such a problem existed, dealing with it, has little to do with much at all.

 

Your point here is taken but in defence of a xenophobic horseshit lie, it's ill-considered.

Unless it is a very long post I always think quoting parts of a post out of context is a bit iffy.

I think that the UK Government's inability or unwillingness to establish effective controls has quite a lot to do with the fact that freedom of movement in practice in the UK  in something not too far removed from how the "resident liar" or the "xenophobic horseshit lie" describes it.

Without introducing a level of control which itself would no doubt be called xenophobic or racist by some, it is difficult (and probably seen by many as too intrusive) to police a vague condition like "looking for work" or even being "self employed".

Edited August 23, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I think that the UK Government's inability or unwillingness to establish effective controls has quite a lot to do with the fact that freedom of movement in practice in the UK  in something not too far removed from how the "resident liar" or the "xenophobic horseshit lie" describes it.

Without introducing a level of control which itself would no doubt be called xenophobic or racist by some, it is difficult (and probably seen by many as too intrusive) to police a vague condition like "looking for work" or even being "self employed".

 

All fair points, although basically just a third or fourth repetition of what you've already said. Still nothing to do with the aspersions the resident liar was casting.

[Cade]

Take a wee look around the EU and the immigration rules of each of the 27 member states.

Many of them are far, far tougher than ours.

 

Immigration is mainly a UK issue and blaming the EU is gobshite.

[Pans Jambo]

22 minutes ago, Cade said:

Take a wee look around the EU and the immigration rules of each of the 27 member states.

Many of them are far, far tougher than ours.

 

Immigration is mainly a UK issue and blaming the EU is gobshite.

Correct but the morons didnt like brown faces working at their local supermarkets taking all "their" jobs so they listened to Farage.

 

Fact is that EVERY single member of the EU is majority WHITE. 

 

The brown faces were from India, Pakistan, Africa etc. And they're NOT in the EU.

 

Mugs.

[Pans Jambo]

22 minutes ago, Cade said:

Take a wee look around the EU and the immigration rules of each of the 27 member states.

Many of them are far, far tougher than ours.

 

Immigration is mainly a UK issue and blaming the EU is gobshite.

Correct but the morons didnt like brown faces working at their local supermarkets taking all "their" jobs so they listened to Farage.

 

Fact is that EVERY single member of the EU is majority WHITE. 

 

The brown faces were from India, Pakistan, Africa etc. And they're NOT in the EU.

 

Mugs.

[jake]

4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Can't say I'd noticed an irony. Maybe one in the Alanis Morissette sense, i.e. totally not ironic.

 

Does seem like there have been about four threads lately where various intersecting topics have been discussed though. Kind of a nightmare for trying to keep things straight.

 

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

One is about people looking for a self determined Scotland taking its place internationally and the other is about a group of racist and xenophobic little englanders dragging the UK back into the Victorian era?

 

Nah I'm not seeing it.

Must just be me then.

 

 

[jake]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Correct but the morons didnt like brown faces working at their local supermarkets taking all "their" jobs so they listened to Farage.

 

Fact is that EVERY single member of the EU is majority WHITE. 

 

The brown faces were from India, Pakistan, Africa etc. And they're NOT in the EU.

 

Mugs.

Wow 

In fact 

WOW !

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Must just be me then.

 

Wouldn't be the first time

 

Just now, jake said:

Wow 

In fact 

WOW !

 

Tbf said moron Farage followers, who do indeed exist unfortunately, did likely swing the vote considering it was 52/48; I don't think that's terribly controversial.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

All fair points, although basically just a third or fourth repetition of what you've already said. Still nothing to do with the aspersions the resident liar was casting.

Repeating yourself on JKB and this thread in particular? Will never catch on.

 

I was I think  in fact developing an argument.

 

Now endless references to Leavers aversion to brown people. That's what I call repetition. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Francis Albert