Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Costanza]

42 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Watched a phone in on TV briefly earlier.

 

Brexit supporter said he as feeling fine about it "because the people who run things will deal with it all so there will not be any big problems" 

Well, I'm glad someone has confidence in the government....

The thing is, there is only so much a government can do to prepare but public disruption and disorder are hardly an exact science. I hope we never have to find out but I think people might be in for a rude awakening of how this country will handle a major crisis.

[Costanza]

27 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

I dont like to call people with differing opinions names. It simply makes them retreat more into their opinions as a defence mechanism.  Rather, healthy debate and persuasion works better. Convincing someone to change their minds is a far more powerful tool tha k insults IMO

I tend to agree with this but we are in the 'post truth' world where opinions or even facts that differ from somebody's viewpoint are routinely dismissed as fake news, propaganda or "we've had quite enough of experts ".

And that's political leaders as well!

 

[Francis Albert]

On ‎16‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 15:43, Dannie Boy said:

 

“But I don't buy for a moment Danny Boy's claim that the "crux of the referendum" was a drive to get the Germans and other EU nationals out of the UK.”

 

“By large majorities, voters who saw multiculturalism, feminism, the Green movement, globalisation and immigration as forces for good voted to remain in the EU; those who saw them as a force for ill voted by even larger majorities to leave.”

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/02/how-the-uk-voted-on-brexit-and-why-a-refresher/

 

That’s the the sad truth of the matter. Add in reports, particularly in England of people shouting to passing EU citizens....... go home! 

 

As as I said in my first post on this matter we told the EU to bolt. We still want what you give us and still want what we give you to remain the same.

Now no one can agree what they want as no one really knows what they actually want. There is no consensus in Parliament or in the country which will bring about a deal. 

As the Rolling Stone once sang, you can’t always what want. 

The only way out of this mess is another referendum which includes Remain. 

I am of the firm view Remain would win.

 

sorry lots of statements in the post above but that’s because my surname is not Lawson 😂

 

 

 

A lot of "cruxes" there!

The conclusion you draw (and one perhaps invited by the billionaire Tory tax exile) is a bit reminiscent of Hillary's "deplorables" comment which probably cost her the election. People who don't share your world view are somehow to be discounted and/or despised.

Three options were given on the issues you list - "force for good, force for ill, and a mixed blessing".  For some reason the analysis split out the first two and converted those answers to a sum equalling 100%, and didn't show the numbers opting for mixed blessing which IMO is  the obvious answer on most of these. Thus exaggerating I suspect the Remain/Leave divide.

It is also an odd mixture - some if not most of them don't seem particularly relevant to Brexit. And on one at least - globalisation - it suggests that the supposedly thick racist Leave voters had a better grasp of what globalisation actually means than the Remain voters. (Lord Ashcroft epitomises what globalisation means).

But perhaps the most interesting result is that both Leave and Remain voters are split 50/50 on whether capitalism is a force for good or ill. That's pretty astonishing given that pro-capitalist parties have totally dominated UK elections for over 60 yrs.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Francis Albert

[RobboM]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Better more smoothly gets their low tax Singapore like set up. Which they may want as implied by many. 

 

Versus close relationship with single market/ customs union. 

To be contemplating that at the same time as fire fighting on the issues raised in the Sunday Times
Food
Petrol

Medicine
Channel Ports
Northern Ireland

 

Plus

 

Negotiate deal with EU
Unforeseen consequences

Imagine any/all of these over any extended timescale is madness while the government concentrates on tax reform? I can't see it. Look at the chaos caused by a couple of drones at Heathrow at Christmas, or the interruption to the National Grid.

[frankblack]

20 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

I dont like to call people with differing opinions names. It simply makes them retreat more into their opinions as a defence mechanism.  Rather, healthy debate and persuasion works better. Convincing someone to change their minds is a far more powerful tool tha k insults IMO

 

Spot on.

 

However on this board if you post a differing view on this or the Indy Ref 2 thread you get swarmed with a few notable posters resorting to name calling, gifs, and smilies to try and attack your personal credibility rather than debate.

 

I don't know at which point the mods should jump in and start banning idiots from threads as it usually ends up in a flame war running multiple pages.   If you reply the flame war goes on, if you don't they repeat their vendetta against you across the forum.

 

Its not just this forum but the terrace too with a group of posters turning any thread into a Levein Out thread within three posts with complete immunity.

[SE16 3LN]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Not the eu? Eurozone, European bank not the eu?

 

 

Not the eu, but a member state(s)? Akin to uk sales to Saudi Arabia?

 

 

Unscrupulous indigenous bosses? In the uk minimum wage levels would need to be met, so how is that the eu’s fault?

I didn't say EU Boris. Most of the final bail out came directly from the Bundes bank in order to protect their previous investments

 

Yes a member state. Just like I said it. Lithuania akin to Saudi😂

 

Not so fluffy and friendly now are they. It's their own fault. You've just presented the classic anti EU argument

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

I didn't say EU Boris. Most of the final bail out came directly from the Bundes bank in order to protect their previous investments

 

Yes a member state. Just like I said it. Lithuania akin to Saudi😂

 

Not so fluffy and friendly now are they. It's their own fault. You've just presented the classic anti EU argument

 

 

11 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Elite public school boys are always wankers, we know that. Now try and defend the calamitous and dictatorial nature of the failing EU project. You won't because you can't.

 

 

[Boris]

6 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I didn't say EU Boris. Most of the final bail out came directly from the Bundes bank in order to protect their previous investments

 

Yes a member state. Just like I said it. Lithuania akin to Saudi😂

 

Not so fluffy and friendly now are they. It's their own fault. You've just presented the classic anti EU argument

 

 

You did, but I'm not sure what you're getting at?  You have given three examples yet none are to do with the eu?

 

Whats your point caller?

[The Mighty Thor]

52 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Unicorns!

 

Pages of waffle and big words - 4

Solutions - 0

 

Another chess piece moved to make it look like Johnson is trying to strike a deal and the big bad EU won't play ball, when in reality he's no interest in negotiating a deal whatsoever. The mail and Express will be lapping it up and whipping up the easily led. 

[jake]

I find it ironic and amusing that those who continually brand those who wish to leave the EU as racist ignore the fact that the EU and its policies do in fact favour white Europeans when it comes to immigration.

 

It also seems to be that the EU is to be free from any criticism.

Are we to ignore the huge unemployment figures across southern Europe.

As for trying to differentiate the Eurozone and the ECB from the EU is really stretching the defence of an undemocratic corporatist monster to the absolute extremes.

 

And whatabouting about our house of lords is really funny when you consider the amount of that lot who have found themselves some cushy jobs with the EU.

Some of whom have never been elected in their lives.

 

Dont worry remain voters .

I've said it before the UK will never be allowed to leave. 

 

Freedom of movement

Freedom of cheap labour 

That's what it is but keep kidding yourself

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by jake

[CJGJ]

1 hour ago, jake said:

I find it ironic and amusing that those who continually brand those who wish to leave the EU as racist ignore the fact that the EU and its policies do in fact favour white Europeans when it comes to immigration.

 

It also seems to be that the EU is to be free from any criticism.

Are we to ignore the huge unemployment figures across southern Europe.

As for trying to differentiate the Eurozone and the ECB from the EU is really stretching the defence of an undemocratic corporatist monster to the absolute extremes.

 

And whatabouting about our house of lords is really funny when you consider the amount of that lot who have found themselves some cushy jobs with the EU.

Some of whom have never been elected in their lives.

 

Dont worry remain voters .

I've said it before the UK will never be allowed to leave. 

 

Freedom of movement

Freedom of cheap labour 

That's what it is but keep kidding yourself

 

The usual attack the other side whilst not answering the points raised

 

The Trump and Boris approach being used on JKB...…………..bad news for you is that the majority of posters have some intelligence to see through it

 

This fantasy that everything has to be 100% when people understand we live in an imperfect world

 

Will we better in or out is the question..clearly in is the answer.

 

Does that mean our world will be somehow be perfect ?..of course not but it will be better than leaving

Edited August 19, 2019 by CJGJ

[Cade]

No Deal cannot last forever.

 

As soon as we try to get a future deal with the EU, ALL the problems we're faced with now will simply resurface during those negotiations.

 

Solutions must be found, not ignored.

[jake]

6 hours ago, CJGJ said:

 

 

The Trump and Boris approach being used on JKB...…………

 

😄

[ri Alban]

Just seen a farmer(Scottish) on the news. He voted leave, but is now Donald ducked when cheap imports start to flood the market under WTO rules with a no deal brexit.

 

My response was hahahahahahahahahahahaha

[DETTY29]

52 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Just seen a farmer(Scottish) on the news. He voted leave, but is now Donald ducked when cheap imports start to flood the market under WTO rules with a no deal brexit.

 

My response was hahahahahahahahahahahaha

And the govt. response to farmers is that funding can  be made available to farmers if  necessary, but don't expect to need to.

 

The defecit the UK faced with money in , money back out of EU was worth it to save us from the absolute lying charlatans that led the leave campaign.

 

One thing Trump is right about, there should be a 'lock em up' policy, but instead they get a 71k fine.

[SE16 3LN]

10 hours ago, Boris said:

 

You did, but I'm not sure what you're getting at?  You have given three examples yet none are to do with the eu?

 

Whats your point caller?

All three members of the Euro Area and nothing to do with the EU? 🤣 

[Boris]

10 hours ago, jake said:

I find it ironic and amusing that those who continually brand those who wish to leave the EU as racist ignore the fact that the EU and its policies do in fact favour white Europeans when it comes to immigration.

 

So the EU create an immigration policy that favours, wait for it, Europeans!  Please explain how this is racist.

 

10 hours ago, jake said:

 

It also seems to be that the EU is to be free from any criticism.

Are we to ignore the huge unemployment figures across southern Europe.

 

Equally there are record low unemployment rates in the UK which is still part of the EU.

 

Individual nation states are responsible for their own economies, surely?

 

10 hours ago, jake said:

As for trying to differentiate the Eurozone and the ECB from the EU is really stretching the defence of an undemocratic corporatist monster to the absolute extremes.

 

Why?  They are all seperate entities.

 

Can you explain how the EU is undemocratic?

 

10 hours ago, jake said:

 

And whatabouting about our house of lords is really funny when you consider the amount of that lot who have found themselves some cushy jobs with the EU.

Some of whom have never been elected in their lives.

 

Examples?  But if there are any, it's the nation states who appoint their own commissioners, so ultimately there is accountability via national elections i.e. if you are so against who the UK has appointed, unelect that government!

 

10 hours ago, jake said:

 

Dont worry remain voters .

I've said it before the UK will never be allowed to leave. 

 

Yet it looks like we are heading that way.  We could have left had May's WA been agreed by parliament.  Maybe it's just that on reflection the people of Britain realise they have been sold a pup and don't want to leave?

 

10 hours ago, jake said:

 

Freedom of movement

Freedom of cheap labour 

That's what it is but keep kidding yourself

 

 

Cheap labour?  So despite minimum wage legislation, the labour cost in the UK is cheaper?  How does that work?

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

All three members of the Euro Area and nothing to do with the EU? 🤣 

 

So when the UK does something, it's somehow the EU's fault?

[SE16 3LN]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So when the UK does something, it's somehow the EU's fault?

So the Greek bail out was nothing to do with the EU.

So the free movement of people is nothing to do with the EU.

and Sorry mate but I'm still laughing at your claim that the sale of arms to Lithuania was akin to arms sales to Saudi.

 

I'm off to work

 

 

 

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

So the Greek bail out was nothing to do with the EU.

So the free movement of people is nothing to do with the EU.

and Sorry mate but I'm still laughing at your claim that the sale of arms to Lithuania was akin to arms sales to Saudi.

 

I'm off to work

 

 

Greek bail out ECB/Eurozone

 

Freedom of movement of workers,  yes, EU!  And it's bad, why?

 

Does it matter who the countries are?  Germany selling arms to Lithuania is no different to the UK selling arms to the Saudis.

 

Enjoy your work!

Edited August 20, 2019 by Boris

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

13 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

N.Ireland railway is state owned 

Wasn't aware of that. Apparently making a profit, too. 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Just seen a farmer(Scottish) on the news. He voted leave, but is now Donald ducked when cheap imports start to flood the market under WTO rules with a no deal brexit.

 

My response was hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Won't cheaper food imports benefit those relying on food banks because they can't afford expensive subsidised EU food?

Not to mention poor farmers and poor countries who can't compete with EU produced food because of EU subsidies and EU tariffs/taxes?

Or does Europeans' and Europhiles' "internationalism" and "multiculturism" not extend beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

Long live the cartel!

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Won't cheaper food imports benefit those relying on food banks because they can't afford expensive subsidised EU food?

Not to mention poor farmers and poor countries who can't compete with EU produced food because of EU subsidies and EU tariffs/taxes?

Or does Europeans' and Europhiles' "internationalism" and "multiculturism" not extend beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

Long live the cartel!

 

Not sure food imports would be cheaper?

 

Under WTO rules the UK is obliged to add roughly a 22% import tariff on food.  Add in the inspection time which would lead to shorter shelf life and delays in distribution.  According to here, at least: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/aug/13/how-a-no-deal-brexit-threatens-your-weekly-food-shop

 

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/no-deal-and-the-wto/

 

 

[Ibrahim Tall]

11 hours ago, jake said:

I find it ironic and amusing that those who continually brand those who wish to leave the EU as racist ignore the fact that the EU and its policies do in fact favour white Europeans when it comes to immigration.

 

 

I hadn’t realised the movements of Black or Asian UK, French, Dutch, Portuguese etc citizens were restricted within the EU. Do you have any proof of that are or you just throwing the word “white” in there for shock value?

[ri Alban]

46 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Won't cheaper food imports benefit those relying on food banks because they can't afford expensive subsidised EU food?

Not to mention poor farmers and poor countries who can't compete with EU produced food because of EU subsidies and EU tariffs/taxes?

Or does Europeans' and Europhiles' "internationalism" and "multiculturism" not extend beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

Long live the cartel!

Says the Trump loving unionists.

[ri Alban]

47 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Won't cheaper food imports benefit those relying on food banks because they can't afford expensive subsidised EU food?

Not to mention poor farmers and poor countries who can't compete with EU produced food because of EU subsidies and EU tariffs/taxes?

Or does Europeans' and Europhiles' "internationalism" and "multiculturism" not extend beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

Long live the cartel!

Anyway, it was more the fact of him greetin about it.

[dobmisterdobster]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Just seen a farmer(Scottish) on the news. He voted leave, but is now Donald ducked when cheap imports start to flood the market under WTO rules with a no deal brexit.

 

My response was hahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

43 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Not sure food imports would be cheaper?

 

Under WTO rules the UK is obliged to add roughly a 22% import tariff on food.  Add in the inspection time which would lead to shorter shelf life and delays in distribution.  According to here, at least: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/aug/13/how-a-no-deal-brexit-threatens-your-weekly-food-shop

 

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/no-deal-and-the-wto/

 

 

These two statements contradict each other.

Pick a narrative guys and stick with it.

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Anyway, it was more the fact of him greetin about it.

A farmer greeting? A Tory farmer greeting? Hardly news is it.

 

[Boris]

6 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

These two statements contradict each other.

Pick a narrative guys and stick with it.

 

I wasn't agreeing with ri Alban.

 

I was making the point regards WTO and the effect it will have on food.

 

Now, post WTO and say a trade deal with the US, then you might start to get cheap, chlorinated, gm, steroid full meats etc being imported.

 

Short term, WTO, what I don't get is on the one hand the farmers talk of having to cull lambs etc - wouldn't that just mean that we would have a glut of lamb in the UK market?  It would be cheap, so the farmers lose out I guess, but the price should go down, no?

 

 

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

A farmer greeting? A Tory farmer greeting? Hardly news is it.

 

 

 

For once

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Boris

[RobboM]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Or does Europeans' and Europhiles' "internationalism" and "multiculturism" not extend beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

Long live the cartel!

Are you seriously arguing that the leave campaign was promoting "internationalism" and "multiculturism"  beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Are you seriously arguing that the leave campaign was promoting "internationalism" and "multiculturism"  beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

No. I am just having a shot at the smug remainers who go along with EU guff --- with whom there is a large overlap with those who demonstrate against Trump's "racist" immigration policies on the Rio Grande, but seem unmoved by very similiar EU immigration policies enforced by patrol boats in the Med, bribes to the source countries.,and walls, fences, and armed guards on EU land borders to the east.

 

[jake]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

So the EU create an immigration policy that favours, wait for it, Europeans!  Please explain how this is racist.

It's not racist.

The insinuation is that those who voted for brexit are racist because they wish to have control on immigration.

I dare say some leave voters are racist .

And I'd bet some remain voters are too.

I am pointing out that the EU controls its borders in the same way towards non EU nations.

This means Ibrahim Tall that it favours predominantly white Europeans.

I merely pointed out the irony of the race card being posted by some on here.

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Equally there are record low unemployment rates in the UK which is still part of the EU.

Quelle surprise as one of the stronger economies.

And with it's own currencies.

Unemployment is I'm sure you are aware part of the price as practiced by Thatchers tories.

Mind you makes for plenty cheap labour to satisfy certain economies in the EU.

2 hours ago, Boris said:

Individual nation states are responsible for their own economies, surely?

Yes of course they are .

But only in the confines of what the EU will allow.

 

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Why?  They are all seperate entities.

Please.

2 hours ago, Boris said:

Can you explain how the EU is undemocratic?

It's about as democratic as the house of lords.

And the parliament is toothless as testified recently.

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

 

Examples?  But if there are any, it's the nation states who appoint their own commissioners, so ultimately there is accountability via national elections i.e. if you are so against who the UK has appointed, unelect that government!

Come on .

Honestly.

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

 

Yet it looks like we are heading that way.  We could have left had May's WA been agreed by parliament.  Maybe it's just that on reflection the people of Britain realise they have been sold a pup and don't want to leave?

Theres some truth in that.

Although I'd argue that we have been scaremongered to death about this.

Even if we exit and no deal as Cade says it will still need negotiations.

General Election kick the can down the road .

Reverse brexit .

And it confirms a lot of what I believe about power etc.

Which is I accept not the most common of views

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

 

Cheap labour?  So despite minimum wage legislation, the labour cost in the UK is cheaper?  How does that work?

Mate I get real .

If you think the minimum rate is anything other than exploitative then that's up to you.

And if you think that its somehow a life enhancing decision to come here and work for that instead of desperation then that's up to you.

Which economies do you think prosper the most?

Not very socialist when it comes to looking at The EU and its effects Boris.

 

[XB52]

59 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

These two statements contradict each other.

Pick a narrative guys and stick with it.

You know not all people wishing for independence agree all the time?? Aussieh I tend to ignore as his posts are usually just knee jerk reactions with no real thought behind them. 

[Boris]

21 minutes ago, jake said:

It's not racist.

The insinuation is that those who voted for brexit are racist because they wish to have control on immigration.

I dare say some leave voters are racist .

And I'd bet some remain voters are too.

I am pointing out that the EU controls its borders in the same way towards non EU nations.

This means Ibrahim Tall that it favours predominantly white Europeans.

I merely pointed out the irony of the race card being posted by some on here.

 

With the greatest respect, I'm struggling to grasp your point.  Or the irony.

 

21 minutes ago, jake said:

Quelle surprise as one of the stronger economies.

And with it's own currencies.

Unemployment is I'm sure you are aware part of the price as practiced by Thatchers tories.

Mind you makes for plenty cheap labour to satisfy certain economies in the EU.

 

21 minutes ago, jake said:

Yes of course they are .

But only in the confines of what the EU will allow.

 

So you agree it's related to the host nation, and so not an EU side-effect?

 

21 minutes ago, jake said:

 

Please.

It's about as democratic as the house of lords.

And the parliament is toothless as testified recently.

 

You don't seem to know how the EU works Jake.

 

21 minutes ago, jake said:

Come on .

Honestly.

 

As above.

 

21 minutes ago, jake said:

Theres some truth in that.

Although I'd argue that we have been scaremongered to death about this.

Even if we exit and no deal as Cade says it will still need negotiations.

General Election kick the can down the road .

Reverse brexit .

And it confirms a lot of what I believe about power etc.

Which is I accept not the most common of views

 

Its a conspiracy!

 

21 minutes ago, jake said:

Mate I get real .

If you think the minimum rate is anything other than exploitative then that's up to you.

And if you think that its somehow a life enhancing decision to come here and work for that instead of desperation then that's up to you.

Which economies do you think prosper the most?

Not very socialist when it comes to looking at The EU and its effects Boris.

 

 

I'm not saying the minimum wage in the UK is the right level, however it creates a level playing field, so if you talk about cheap labour, in the context of the UK, that labour will cost the same whether the person is from Poland, Bonnyrigg or Spain.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

A farmer greeting? A Tory farmer greeting? Hardly news is it.

 

Tory? I have no idea. But these well subsidised farmers have a cheek voting leave then crying about the results.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

These two statements contradict each other.

Pick a narrative guys and stick with it.

There were another two farmers on later. One from Surrey whose produce is UK internal. Loves brexit, the other who's mainly trades with the EU. He now has to lower his standards to compete. He's devastated.

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

And the govt. response to farmers is that funding can  be made available to farmers if  necessary, but don't expect to need to.

 

The defecit the UK faced with money in , money back out of EU was worth it to save us from the absolute lying charlatans that led the leave campaign.

 

One thing Trump is right about, there should be a 'lock em up' policy, but instead they get a 71k fine.

I didn't know 90% of dairy is exported to the EU. They must be scunnered right now.

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Not sure food imports would be cheaper?

 

Under WTO rules the UK is obliged to add roughly a 22% import tariff on food.  Add in the inspection time which would lead to shorter shelf life and delays in distribution.  According to here, at least: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/aug/13/how-a-no-deal-brexit-threatens-your-weekly-food-shop

 

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/no-deal-and-the-wto/

 

 

The WTO rules would not oblige the UK to apply a 22% tariff on food. (nor do they impose that on the EU today). It is the EU that chooses to apply the approx  22% import tariff on food for the benefit of already heavily subsidised EU farmers, at the expense of EU consumers. Even the Guardian article despite its typically scary tone admits that in the long run lower tariffs could reduce the cost of imported food. In fact it puts it more strongly - lower tariffs on imported agricultural goods would make them more attractive. As the Guardian article says it is a complicated question but misrepresentation of WTO rules doesn't help comprehension. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Boris]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

The WTO rules would not oblige the UK to apply a 22% tariff on food. (nor do they impose that on the EU today). It is the EU that chooses to apply the approx  22% import tariff on food for the benefit of already heavily subsidised EU farmers, at the expense of EU consumers. Even the Guardian article despite its typically scary tone admits that in the long run lower tariffs could reduce the cost of imported food. As the Guardian article says it is a complicated question. Misrepresentation of WTO rules doesn't help comprehension. 

 

OK, but were we to not apply the tariff to the EU, under WTO we would have to do the same with everyone else (as I understand it)?

 

Not a great starting point for future trade agreements.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

With the greatest respect, I'm struggling to grasp your point.  Or the irony.

 

 

 

So you agree it's related to the host nation, and so not an EU side-effect?

 

 

You don't seem to know how the EU works Jake.

 

 

As above.

 

 

Its a conspiracy!

 

 

I'm not saying the minimum wage in the UK is the right level, however it creates a level playing field, so if you talk about cheap labour, in the context of the UK, that labour will cost the same whether the person is from Poland, Bonnyrigg or Spain.

A larger pool of labour, with large numbers willing to accept the minimum wage and unable to find employment even at that in many parts of the EU,  will tend to drive wages (in some sectors at least) towards the minimum wage.

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

A larger pool of labour, with large numbers willing to accept the minimum wage and unable to find employment even at that in many parts of the EU,  will tend to drive wages (in some sectors at least) towards the minimum wage.

 

Sounds like an issue for trade unions to sort out then!  

[Francis Albert]

35 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Sounds like an issue for trade unions to sort out then!  

Indeed.unfortunately a large pool of people willing to work for a minimum wage further weakens the power of  trade unions, already neutered by legislation in the UK and elsewhere. A cynical leftist might imagine a conspiracy!

[Cade]

DUP chief whip:

"The reality is that for unionists the Good Friday agreement was an agreement between Unionists and nationalists, and there isn’t unionist consent for the backstop, and therefore there is no cross-community consensus on this proposal and that breaches the principles of the GFA."

The DUP refused to sign the GFA in the first place ya stupid bamstick.

For you lot to be up in arms about anybody else being in breach of the spirit of the GFA is laughable.

[Pans Jambo]

😂😂😂 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

The government no longer sending ministers to EU negotiations from 1st September, to apparently focus on leaving the EU on 31/10.

 

Its all about negotiating a deal, right?

 

 

 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

8 hours ago, RobboM said:

Are you seriously arguing that the leave campaign was promoting "internationalism" and "multiculturism"  beyond our rich, mainly white, mainly Christian  wee corner of the world?

Yes, the official campaign did.

 

Farage wasn't part of the official campaign. There were like three different leave campaign groups if you remember.

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Yes, the official campaign did.

 

Farage wasn't part of the official campaign. There were like three different leave campaign groups if you remember.

 

Tbf he said the leave campaign, not the official campaign, so you'd have to include those three different leave groups.

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

😂😂😂 

 

 

 

 

You can tell he's a lib-dumb. 

[RobboM]

11 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Yes, the official campaign did.

 

Farage wasn't part of the official campaign. There were like three different leave campaign groups if you remember.

Would it be fair to say that, if people voted Leave on the basis of what Farage said, they were misled?