Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[JamboX2]

No longer intending to ditch the backstop. So it's the deal she's got or not at all. As we all knew.

 

Can we make changes to the political declaration so it works for most of parliament and get on with this?

[Cade]

Backstop is only there to provide a legal safety net should No Deal happen.

Parliament's refusal to accept the legal backstop is making No Deal more likely.

 

It's a joke, really.

[Jambo100]

The E U has told Ireland hard border or you are out.Daily express.Just remember the Nisson letter £81m to the car plant.Done in 2016 and should be put on E U records..It was in December 2018.How can the E U trust a scum Tory run country.Anyone want a U S chicken or Australian Beef.BOTH BANNED BY THE E U. The money to be made.

[NANOJAMBO]

12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

I see what you mean, but I'm not sure how they can square that with a desire to control or reduce inward migration from EU countries.

 

The problem with the border question is that no matter how passionately a politician says there won't be a hard border, they can't guarantee it without legal instruments that people know what they are and know how they work.  I read what Theresa May said today, and even if you can convince yourself she's as serious and committed as she sounds, the problem is that what she says has no credibility unless it is backed up by something material and real.  Her government has had two years to come up with something to persuade the EU 27 that she could avoid a hard border, and so far only one idea has materialised that will do that.  The PM might well believe that her government can conjure something up in a couple of weeks, but she's a long way short of getting the people she want to negotiate with to believe the same thing.

There is an answer and it's forget the DUP and put the border in the Irish Sea . The majority in NI wanted to remain, it will avoid a hard border on the island and should satisfy the far right of the party re EU . Of course she will never do that because she'll be in charge of a govt that has no authority. Oh, wait....

 

We all know this is bluster in the sense as a country we have come too far and it's too late. May won't change her mind , the Tories won't change their collective mind on the backstop nor will the DUP.  Everyone is praying someone else will blink. 

 

From what I can see , the EU is putting out signals re wording on the future relationship to try and reduce UK concerns re the backstop but it's  there for a reason - and as May said on C4 3 years ago (it was on twitter last week)  - it's inconceivable you wouldn't have a border with a country that has freedom of movement. So, she knew and the Tories all knew that the border in Ireland was coming. They lied to everyone about it. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by NANOJAMBO

[Victorian]

ERG and other zealots are up in arms at being diddled by the Brady amendment (government's amendment in reality).    Voted with the government on the basis of the Backstop being replaced.    Reality is that it can't be replaced,  changed or added to.    Only clarified.

 

Deceived by the government.    It's quite incredible they would assume the government would be honest.     ****ing idiots.

[NANOJAMBO]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

ERG and other zealots are up in arms at being diddled by the Brady amendment (government's amendment in reality).    Voted with the government on the basis of the Backstop being replaced.    Reality is that it can't be replaced,  changed or added to.    Only clarified.

 

Deceived by the government.    It's quite incredible they would assume the government would be honest.     ****ing idiots.

On the BBC news yesterday it was being claimed that the Brady "amendment" wasn't an  amendment at all but was intended to replace the backstop. The un named source was one of the ERG / Brexit lot. Apparently they re fuming. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

On the BBC news yesterday it was being claimed that the Brady "amendment" wasn't an  amendment at all but was intended to replace the backstop. The un named source was one of the ERG / Brexit lot. Apparently they re fuming. 

 

The nebulous,  non specific wording of the amendment was the dead giveaway.    It was purely a device to facilitate running down the clock.    There was never any intention in it to remove, change or replace.       

 

They fell for it like dummies.

 

[Cade]

46 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

There is an answer and it's forget the DUP and put the border in the Irish Sea . The majority in NI wanted to remain, it will avoid a hard border on the island and should satisfy the far right of the party re EU . Of course she will never do that because she'll be in charge of a govt that has no authority. Oh, wait....

 

We all know this is bluster in the sense as a country we have come too far and it's too late. May won't change her mind , the Tories won't change their collective mind on the backstop nor will the DUP.  Everyone is praying someone else will blink. 

 

From what I can see , the EU is putting out signals re wording on the future relationship to try and reduce UK concerns re the backstop but it's  there for a reason - and as May said on C4 3 years ago (it was on twitter last week)  - it's inconceivable you wouldn't have a border with a country that has freedom of movement. So, she knew and the Tories all knew that the border in Ireland was coming. They lied to everyone about it. 

The problem with giving NI special status and membership of the customs union is that Scotland will also demand a similar arrangement.

Considering that the majority in Scotland also voted Remain, it'd be hard for Westminster to refuse that demand without (another) constitutional crisis.

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

The problem with giving NI special status and membership of the customs union is that Scotland will also demand a similar arrangement.

Considering that the majority in Scotland also voted Remain, it'd be hard for Westminster to refuse that demand without (another) constitutional crisis.

Yeah , they could make that point. But Scotland doesn't have a land border with the EU  nor the same historical/political issues (thankfully) so we're not comparing eggs with eggs but I accept your point. 

[Cade]

Donald Tusk:

"The EU is first and foremost a peace project. We will not gamble with peace or put a sell-by date on reconciliation. This is why we insist on the backstop."
"By the way, I have been wondering what the special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to deliver it safely."

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Cade

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Donald Tusk:

"The EU is first and foremost a peace project. We will not gamble with peace or put a sell-by date on reconciliation. This is why we insist on the backstop."
"By the way, I have been wondering what the special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to deliver it safely."

 

It's all over Twitter this morning. Looking forward to seeing it reported on BBC tonight ?

[Don Dan]

Outrageous statement by Tusk. 

 

 

It's been on the BBC lunch time news.

[...a bit disco]

3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Outrageous statement by Tusk. 

 

 

It's been on the BBC lunch time news.

 

Outrageous?

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

10 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

Outrageous?

 

 

It's wonderful. 

[...a bit disco]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It's wonderful. 

 

 

Brexiteering "snowflakes" melting all over the place after it too.

 

Scenes indeed.

[Notts1874]

4 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

 

Brexiteering "snowflakes" melting all over the place after it too.

 

Scenes indeed.

Twitter is fantastic right now. 

[Don Dan]

16 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

Outrageous?

 

 

 

Indeed. 

[...a bit disco]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Indeed. 

 

Only when taken out of context.

 

 

 

[...a bit disco]

A reason to support Remain.

 

[...a bit disco]

4 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Twitter is fantastic right now. 

 

My new "happy place" at the moment.

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

Only when taken out of context.

 

 

 

 

I suppose you could argue context however when its acknowledged like this then I"ll stick with outrageous. This man has and shows no respect to the UK. 

Rubbing salt into the wound, Mr Tusk was then caught on mic chuckling at a press conference when Irish premier Leo Varadkar whispered to him that the British would 'give you terrible trouble' over the jibe.

 

[Notts1874]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I suppose you could argue context however when its acknowledged like this then I"ll stick with outrageous. This man has and shows no respect to the UK. 

Rubbing salt into the wound, Mr Tusk was then caught on mic chuckling at a press conference when Irish premier Leo Varadkar whispered to him that the British would 'give you terrible trouble' over the jibe.

 

He shows plenty of respect to the UK. He shows no respect to the politicians........which can't really be argued with.

 

Your last point is a misquote. Varadkar actually said British Press. 

[...a bit disco]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I suppose you could argue context however when its acknowledged like this then I"ll stick with outrageous. This man has and shows no respect to the UK. 

Rubbing salt into the wound, Mr Tusk was then caught on mic chuckling at a press conference when Irish premier Leo Varadkar whispered to him that the British would 'give you terrible trouble' over the jibe.

 

 

Again, nothing wrong with him stating his position. Quite clearly and well thought out too.

 

Lets face it, worse has been said about the EU by the Brexiters on many occasions.

 

 

 

Mr Tusk began his remarks by telling reporters there were 50 days to go until the UK's exit from the European Union.

 

"I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart.

 

"But the facts are unmistakable. At the moment, the pro-Brexit stance of the UK prime minister, and the Leader of the Opposition, rules out this question.

 

"Today, there is no political force and no effective leadership for Remain. I say this without satisfaction, but you can't argue with the facts."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135

[Notts1874]

A blizzard of snowflakes.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

26 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

 

Brexiteering "snowflakes" melting all over the place after it too.

 

Scenes indeed.

Thanks. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

A blizzard of snowflakes.

 

 

Currently having a good laugh on twitter. Some of the responses are verging on apoplexy. 

[...a bit disco]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

A blizzard of snowflakes.

 

 

 

The irony of Hartley-Brewers tweet is off the scale.

 

Arsehole of a woman.

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

He shows plenty of respect to the UK. He shows no respect to the politicians........which can't really be argued with.

 

Your last point is a misquote. Varadkar actually said British Press. 

 

Whatever Varadkar exactly said they new it would cause a backlash. 

[Notts1874]

Just now, ...a bit disco said:

 

The irony of Hartley-Brewers tweet is off the scale.

 

Arsehole of a woman.

Ask her what plan she voted for. It will tip her over the edge........In fact anybody losing their shit, just ask them what the plan is.

[...a bit disco]

Just now, Notts1874 said:

Ask her what plan she voted for. It will tip her over the edge........In fact anybody losing their shit, just ask them what the plan is.

 

 

[Notts1874]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

 

Whatever Varadkar exactly said they new it would cause a backlash. 

Maybe some people need a kick up the backside and other's needed a reality check.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

The irony of Hartley-Brewers tweet is off the scale.

 

Arsehole of a woman.

Tories struggling now . Getting called out by EU leadership, Merkel going out of her way to brief UK media about lies in The S** a couple of weeks back and now the S** has decided that -

i) there is a technology solution to overcome the backstop. It's secret and it's in AFRICA (they don't say which country it is so I'm assuming it's the whole continent ). 

 

ii) HMRC are going to throw the sea ports open to allow food imports in the event of no deal (which is total bullshit as HMRC have no such powers).

 

It's all getting very desperate now. 

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Maybe some people need a kick up the backside and other's needed a reality check.

 

 

 

Well Tusk and Varadkar are two such people. 

[...a bit disco]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Tories struggling now . Getting called out by EU leadership, Merkel going out of her way to brief UK media about lies in The S** a couple of weeks back and now the S** has decided that -

i) there is a technology solution to overcome the backstop. It's secret and it's in AFRICA (they don't say which country it is so I'm assuming it's the whole continent ). 

 

ii) HMRC are going to throw the sea ports open to allow food imports in the event of no deal (which is total bullshit as HMRC have no such powers).

 

It's all getting very desperate now. 

 

Her Maj's government advocating smuggling now?

 

 

[Cade]

"what do we want?"

"we don't know!"

"when do we want it?"

"NOW!"

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

 

Well Tusk and Varadkar are two such people. 

What ? For standing by the negotiated agreement that the UK govt wanted ?  Which the UK PM wanted -  and then voted against ? 

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

What ? For standing by the negotiated agreement that the UK govt wanted ?  Which the UK PM wanted -  and then voted against ? 

 

The Parliament voted against it. Resoundingly as well. These two are arrogant pratts which is obvious to me. There's ways of saying things and  Tusk in this instance failed to do it. 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

"what do we want?"

"we don't know!"

"when do we want it?"

"NOW!"

 

 

It's the will of the people !!

What is?

We don't know , we won and we want our prize!!

What is the prize ?

We don't care. It's ours & we want it !

Is the prize what you voted for?

It doesn't matter, just give it to us!!

And tell those damn foreigners to stop pointing out all our mistakes!!!!!!!

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

The Parliament voted against it. Resoundingly as well. These two are arrogant pratts which is obvious to me. There's ways of saying things and  Tusk in this instance failed to do it. 

As Tusk said, 28 countries, including the UK, agreed to it. 

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

 

The Parliament voted against it. Resoundingly as well. These two are arrogant pratts which is obvious to me. There's ways of saying things and  Tusk in this instance failed to do it. 

He can say what he damn well likes after all the BS the EU has had to put up with from lying MPs to lying right wing media. 

 

Oh yeah, parliament voted against it. After they were actually denied  a vote on it. Let's not forget that little fact. 

[Don Dan]

9 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

i) there is a technology solution to overcome the backstop. It's secret and it's in AFRICA (they don't say which country it is so I'm assuming it's the whole continent ). 

 

'Government officials are scrutinising proposals for a new hi-tech border system designed by Fujitsu that could ease the link between Northern Ireland and the Republic'

[Don Dan]

Just now, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

As Tusk said, 28 countries, including the UK, agreed to it. 

 

The UK did not agree to it as it was emptied by the UK parliament.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

'Government officials are scrutinising proposals for a new hi-tech border system designed by Fujitsu that could ease the link between Northern Ireland and the Republic'

In the Sun !!! The same paper that said there's already a solution in AFRICA. 

[Notts1874]

11 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Well Tusk and Varadkar are two such people. 

Please explain.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

The UK did not agree to it as it was emptied by the UK parliament.

After getting  a vote on it that May & the Tories wanted to deny parliament. So much for the EU being undemocratic. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

The UK did not agree to it as it was emptied by the UK parliament.

So why did the UK sign up for it in 2017? 

[Don Dan]

7 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

So why did the UK sign up for it in 2017? 

 

The transition deal which was presented to Parliament this January (2019) was emptied by MPs who voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal, which sets out the terms of Britain's exit from the EU on 29 March.

 

The question that's never been ask as far as i'm aware is why did the EU think that this was a done deal? When it had to go before the UK Parliament to be either accepted or rejected. looking back everyone new it was dead in the water but the EU closed the books for further negotiations. Despite the fact that the UK Parliament had not ratified it. 

[NANOJAMBO]

8 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

The transition deal which was presented to Parliament this January (2019) was emptied by MPs who voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal, which sets out the terms of Britain's exit from the EU on 29 March.

 

The question that's never been ask as far as i'm aware is why did the EU think that this was a done deal? When it had to go before the UK Parliament to be either accepted or rejected. looking back everyone new it was dead in the water but the EU closed the books for further negotiations. Despite the fact that the UK Parliament had not ratified it. 

So why did May wait until the vote when she knew it was going to fail. Why didn't she ask her party what they wanted and then go back to EU and renegotiate.  Why didn't she ask her party what they wanted before negotiations even started?  This is all about poor leadership in the UK.   You can't spin it in the direction of Brussels. 

 

PS May didn't even want her own party/parliament to have a vote on it in the first place. How democratic. 

 

PS I'll come back to what i said earlier today re the backstop (that thing which causes so much anger).  Theresa May said on C4 Tv in 2016 - it's unthinkable you could not have a border with a country that has freedom of movement. So, she knew and her party knew that there would have to be a border,  before negotiations even really started. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by NANOJAMBO

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

So why did May wait until the vote when she knew it was going to fail. Why didn't she ask her party what they wanted and then go back to EU and renegotiate.  Why didn't she ask her party what they wanted before negotiations even started?  This is all about poor leadership in the UK.   You can't spin it in the direction of Brussels. 

 

PS May didn't even want her own party/parliament to have a vote on it in the first place. How democratic. 

 

Ask Mrs May.

[NANOJAMBO]

12 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

The transition deal which was presented to Parliament this January (2019) was emptied by MPs who voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal, which sets out the terms of Britain's exit from the EU on 29 March.

 

The question that's never been ask as far as i'm aware is why did the EU think that this was a done deal? When it had to go before the UK Parliament to be either accepted or rejected. looking back everyone new it was dead in the water but the EU closed the books for further negotiations. Despite the fact that the UK Parliament had not ratified it. 

Because that's what the UK govt asked for and that's what they got.