The Mighty Thor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 20 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: £18 billion trade deal incoming with the Pacific countries well played Boris who needs the EUs expense and bureaucracy. regardless of how many times you post this nonsense it still remains nonsense. You see when you read the 'details' of the 'great deal' that's been done, it turns out it's not done. It COULD be agreed by the end of the year. It SHOULD improve trade with the Pacific bloc countries (we've already signed much worse deals with Australia and New Zealand - Ask the farmers) It MAY lead to lower prices on the supermarket shelves. Now where have I heard all this before? Energy costs will drop after Brexit Food costs will drop after Brexit All of this might ring true in the wee world of unicorns and fairies you live in, however in the harsh light of day it's 2022 and the country is going down like the Titanic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 That’s the spirit cup half empty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainsley Harriott Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: That’s the spirit cup half empty Strange so many are so against breaking off a union with Europe but love the notion of breaking off a union with England to be worse off. Odd that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said: Strange so many are so against breaking off a union with Europe but love the notion of breaking off a union with England to be worse off. Odd that. Only if you're a div Edited August 22, 2022 by Smithee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 and use bad grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said: That’s the spirit cup half empty Better than approaching the nonsense with a head half empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Interesting poll in the Times (which is a Tory shit rag) Scots clearly not as gullible as our near neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Interesting poll in the Times (which is a Tory shit rag) Scots clearly not as gullible as our near neighbours. Support for rejoining the EU soars in new poll August 22 2022, The Times Support for rejoining the EU is soaring among Scottish voters, a poll shows. A new Panelbase survey has found that Scotland is even more opposed to Brexit than in 2016, when 62 per cent voted against. Now 72 per cent say they would vote Remain, while 69 per cent, would vote to rejoin the EU — up from 61 per cent in January. Those opposed to Brexit are more inclined to back independence. The survey of 1,133 adults in Scotland, carried out last week, suggests 57 per cent of 2016 Remain voters would vote Yes, compared with 28 per cent of Leave voters, while 12 per cent are undecided. The poll, commissioned by The Sunday Times, found that public opinion on the question of independence was almost equally split, with No just ahead of Yes by 51 per cent to 49 per cent. However, the prospect of either Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak becoming prime minister reverses that slim advantage. The poll suggests that support for the union would slip to 49 per cent if Sunak was in No 10, with Yes rising to 51 per cent, and to 48 per cent if Truss became the new leader — with 52 per cent in favour of independence. Both candidates are committed to Brexit, which the research suggests makes their task of preventing the break up of Britain more difficult. When asked if Scotland will leave the UK within the next ten years 47 per cent said it was likely, with 21 per cent believing it very likely and 26 per cent saying it is quite likely. The combined figure for those believing it unlikely was 34 per cent, with the figure for those thinking independence “very unlikely” falling by 2 per cent since January. At the Conservative leadership hustings in Perth last week Truss, the favourite to replace Boris Johnson, insisted she would be even more implacable in opposing Scottish independence than the previous administration. Both candidates have ruled out granting a referendum, eight years after Scots voted against independence by 55 per cent to 45 per cent. Sir John Curtice, a leading polling analyst, suggested it was a high-risk strategy. “Simply arguing that another referendum should not be held at all seems unlikely to win many converts,” he said. “While 44 per cent oppose a referendum in the next five years, 48 per cent are in favour. “And only 37 per cent believe the UK government should make the decision on another ballot, while 52 per cent reckon the Scottish government should do so.” He added: “Ultimately the union will only be safe if people in Scotland come to believe in it. “But it is far from clear that the next prime minister will have the right strategy to achieve that.” In January, just over a quarter of people polled thought that a Truss premiership would lead to Scottish independence. That has risen to nearly 40 per cent, putting her almost on a par with Johnson, the most unpopular prime minister in Scotland in decades. Kirsten Oswald, the SNP’s deputy Westminster leader, said: “People in Scotland are sick fed up of disastrous Tory politicians they didn’t vote for and the shambolic governments they oversee, this poll is yet further proof of that and the growing desire to escape Tory rule.” The campaign group Scotland in Union said: “It’s clear the people of Scotland do not want another divisive referendum”. Discover more from The Times Download our app Visit our website Times Money Mentor Times Radio Times Travel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 It’s the way forward for a prosperous Scotland IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Interesting poll in the Times (which is a Tory shit rag) Scots clearly not as gullible as our near neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Interesting poll in the Times (which is a Tory shit rag) Scots clearly not as gullible as our near neighbours. The Times is a paper that has fallen a long way to become a moderately right wing tabloid. Compared to the Telegraph which still a serious voice of the right like it or not and the Mail a pretty extreme right wing tabloid. The Guardian has become a woke propaganda sheet run not by the editor but the staff whether journalists or not. As for the National! Fortunately few people under 35 read newspapers anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Cost analysis required by the SNP for an individual Scotland in the EU with a nod from the EU that they would accept us in. The U.K. is goosed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Imaman said: Cost analysis required by the SNP for an individual Scotland in the EU with a nod from the EU that they would accept us in. The U.K. is goosed Mmm. The first bit ... Maybe not a shoo-in then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Mmm. The first bit ... Maybe not a shoo-in then. We would the separation costs worked out which will be a contentious issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Just now, Imaman said: We would the separation costs worked out which will be a contentious issue. What about the cost of remaining? I'd like to see that spelled out in detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Smithee said: What about the cost of remaining? I'd like to see that spelled out in detail. All tricky sums for more money savvy people than me to work out. However my take is it would a positive outcome (can only be that when you look at the market and Labour size we would have access too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Smithee said: What about the cost of remaining? I'd like to see that spelled out in detail. Well one of the immediate dividends is the money in your pocket providing 18% less buying power. The currency we use is worth 21% less versus the USD since Brexit You could go on and on and on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Interesting poll in the Times (which is a Tory shit rag) Scots clearly not as gullible as our near neighbours. Yep confirms Still 51 % NAW Braw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 24 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: Well one of the immediate dividends is the money in your pocket providing 18% less buying power. The currency we use is worth 21% less versus the USD since Brexit You could go on and on and on And how much less than the euro? Surely more relevant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: And how much less than the euro? Surely more relevant? We don't buy commodities in Euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Imaman said: In January, just over a quarter of people polled thought that a Truss premiership would lead to Scottish independence. That has risen to nearly 40 per cent, putting her almost on a par with Johnson, the most unpopular prime minister in Scotland in decades. She's not even been voted in by the auld racists yet and already the people of Scotland just know she's going to be utterly shit at the day job. Warms the cockles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: We don't buy commodities in Euros. The EU is still our major trading partner. And the pound has not fallen anything like 21 per cent against the dollar since Brexit. Edited August 22, 2022 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: The EU is still our major trading partner. And the pound has not fallen anything like 21 per cent against the dollar since Brexit. We don't buy commodities that are traded on international markets in EURO. GBP to USD on 23/6/16 = 1.48 Today = 1.17 Which =0.31 down Which is 20.9% down or 21% if you like. Next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: We don't buy commodities that are traded on international markets in EURO. GBP to USD on 23/6/16 = 1.48 Today = 1.17 Which =0.31 down Which is 20.9% down or 21% if you like. Next! We did not leave the EU in 2016. And what has the euro v dollar done since then? And yes many international commodities are traded in dollars. So how has the pound fared against the euro since 2016 or since we actually left the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) Scottish Government/NHS Scotland needs to bypass the UK government and bring in EU staff. What a difference from post and pre Brexit. Midnight Monday, didn't get doctor til 10ish in the morning and treatment at 4 pm. Hame at 530pm. Fecking shocking. Yet when I damaged my ankle before we left, in and out in about 2 hrs. Edited August 23, 2022 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 8 hours ago, Francis Albert said: We did not leave the EU in 2016. And what has the euro v dollar done since then? And yes many international commodities are traded in dollars. So how has the pound fared against the euro since 2016 or since we actually left the EU? Once again, we do not trade commodities, such as oil and gas in Euros. Everything traded internationally is traded in USD. The night of the Brexit vote was the start of the mayhem in the financial markets. The pound has never recovered since 23rd June 2016. A Google search or search of FX markets will tell you all you need to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Once again, we do not trade commodities, such as oil and gas in Euros. Everything traded internationally is traded in USD. The night of the Brexit vote was the start of the mayhem in the financial markets. The pound has never recovered since 23rd June 2016. A Google search or search of FX markets will tell you all you need to know. My point is that the euro has also fallen vs the dollar and at times has even traded close to parity. So to attribute the fall in the pounds value vs the dollar to Brexit is somewhat simplistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 50 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: My point is that the euro has also fallen vs the dollar and at times has even traded close to parity. So to attribute the fall in the pounds value vs the dollar to Brexit is somewhat simplistic. Your EURO point is an absolute irrelevance. Commodities, the things that drive inflation, are traded in USD. The bottom line is thanks to Brexit we now get considerably less bucks for our bang. The absolute indisputable fact, regardless of how much dancing on the head of a pin you do, is this: on 23rd June 2016 one GBP bought you $1.48 (it actually fell by 9.8% overnight) Since that day the pound has fallen by 20.9% to currently stand at 1GBP = $1.17 That is a direct result of Brexit. You'll not see that on the side of a bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 On 21/08/2022 at 12:42, ri Alban said: It's taken two years of Boris, to take us all back 50 years. Rees-Mogg will be demanding 150 more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 49 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: Your EURO point is an absolute irrelevance. Commodities, the things that drive inflation, are traded in USD. The bottom line is thanks to Brexit we now get considerably less bucks for our bang. The absolute indisputable fact, regardless of how much dancing on the head of a pin you do, is this: on 23rd June 2016 one GBP bought you $1.48 (it actually fell by 9.8% overnight) Since that day the pound has fallen by 20.9% to currently stand at 1GBP = $1.17 That is a direct result of Brexit. You'll not see that on the side of a bus. The Euro has fallen again below parity with the dollar. So the Eurozone is getting less than one buck per Euro. Is that down to Brexit? And but for Brexit would the pound be trading today at $1.48 or anything like it? The answer to both questions is of course no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: The Euro has fallen again below parity with the dollar. So the Eurozone is getting less than one buck per Euro. Is that down to Brexit? And but for Brexit would the pound be trading today at $1.48 or anything like it? The answer to both questions is of course no. The inescapable fact you're blithely ignoring is, and i'll quote you, that 'the pound is not down anywhere near 21%' It is. From the day that the UK voted to leave the EU. It's a fact. It's down. It's down 21%. Throw as much whataboutery at it as you like. It's not opinion. It's just counting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: The inescapable fact you're blithely ignoring is, and i'll quote you, that 'the pound is not down anywhere near 21%' It is. From the day that the UK voted to leave the EU. It's a fact. It's down. It's down 21%. Throw as much whataboutery at it as you like. It's not opinion. It's just counting. Correct. It is indeed down 21%. from that date. I was wrong. But how much of that is down to Brexit? You seem to attribute it all to Brexit and dismiss other factors which have clearly impacted on remaining EU members and the Eurozone as totally irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Correct. It is indeed down 21%. from that date. I was wrong. But how much of that is down to Brexit? You seem to attribute it all to Brexit and dismiss other factors which have clearly impacted on remaining EU members and the Eurozone as totally irrelevant. No what's happened is that rather than accept you were wrong on your initial point, as you often do, you disappear down a rabbit hole of a strawman argument to a point where the initial discussion is lost. To answer your point there's only been one other significant event since 2016 which could have impacted the pound versus other currencies and that was the pandemic, which is widely accepted to have impacted every single economy on the planet by around 7.6%. So the US economy took a battering but again the pound has suffered more than other major currencies which brings us back nicely to 23rd June 2016 and the greatest act of economic self harm ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 21 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Correct. It is indeed down 21%. from that date. I was wrong. But how much of that is down to Brexit? You seem to attribute it all to Brexit and dismiss other factors which have clearly impacted on remaining EU members and the Eurozone as totally irrelevant. Lockdowns ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 43 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Lockdowns ? Yep. And the wider impact of Coronavirus. Ukraine and the impact on energy prices and supply security. You can prpbably throw in climate change and the UK and to some extent the EU taking it more seriously with more draconian measures than certainly the USA has adopted. All straw men of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Yep. And the wider impact of Coronavirus. Ukraine and the impact on energy prices and supply security. You can prpbably throw in climate change and the UK and to some extent the EU taking it more seriously with more draconian measures than certainly the USA has adopted. All straw men of course! Doesn’t fit sone narrative to mention lockdowns etc I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Yep. And the wider impact of Coronavirus. Ukraine and the impact on energy prices and supply security. You can prpbably throw in climate change and the UK and to some extent the EU taking it more seriously with more draconian measures than certainly the USA has adopted. All straw men of course! Every economy took a battering during covid. Why did ours do worse? The impact on energy prices will be because we trade commodities in USD. in the global markets. The GBP is down 21% against the USD therefore everything we buy is more expensive. This being the Brexit thread, it's good to keep looking through that lens. Why don't you start a Francis Albert mega thread of strawman & irrelevant off topic excuses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Doesn’t fit sone narrative to mention lockdowns etc I suppose Not on the Brexit thread, no. Plenty places for you to work yourself up on that one 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said: Not on the Brexit thread, no. Plenty places for you to work yourself up on that one 👍 It does if you are insisting the shit we are in just now is mainly due to Brexit , it isn’t . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It does if you are insisting the shit we are in just now is mainly due to Brexit , it isn’t . If you'd actually read any of the discussion between FA and me then you'd know exactly what we're talking about. You haven't therefore you don't. Off you pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: If you'd actually read any of the discussion between FA and me then you'd know exactly what we're talking about. You haven't therefore you don't. Off you pop. Oh listen you my moderator of the board . Must be tiring , I’m popping off soon to a show sann . Have a good day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Oh listen you my moderator of the board . Must be tiring , I’m popping off soon to a show sann . Have a good day Enjoy it 👍 Mind and pay attention 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: Every economy took a battering during covid. Why did ours do worse? The impact on energy prices will be because we trade commodities in USD. in the global markets. The GBP is down 21% against the USD therefore everything we buy is more expensive. This being the Brexit thread, it's good to keep looking through that lens. Why don't you start a Francis Albert mega thread of strawman & irrelevant off topic excuses? Not all economies were affected equally by lockdowns. See Sweden for example. The energy crisis is not just because we trade in dollars in a global market and again the impact varies from country to country. The fall on the pound vs US dollar does not impact equally on everything we buy and others buy. It is a Brexit thread but looking at Brexit solely through a 'Brexit lense" by attributing everything to Brexit does not help understanding the impact of Brexit. Edited August 23, 2022 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: It is a Brexit thread but looking at Brexit solely through a 'Brexit lense" by attributing everything to Brexit does not help understanding the impact of Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: Enjoy it 👍 Mind and pay attention 😂 Lol it’s a circus of some sort , like there aren’t enough of them at the fringe 😂 but cheers I do like a circus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Lol it’s a circus of some sort , like there aren’t enough of them at the fringe 😂 but cheers I do like a circus Stay in the house mate. This place is a fecking circus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: Stay in the house mate. This place is a fecking circus It certainly is but the pub before the show sounds too appealing to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Choose a thread any thread and will fit in just as well. Tory lies and or Brexit. NHS calls in Nepalese nurses to plug holes in staffing August 23 2022, The Times Nurses are being flown in from Nepal to work in the NHS despite a global ban on employing healthcare workers from the country because of its own staff shortages. The Department of Health yesterday signed a deal with the Nepalese government to recruit staff for the NHS, agreeing to pay for their air tickets, visas and registration fees. About 100 nurses are due to work at Hampshire Hospital NHS Foundation Trust under a pilot scheme running until the end of next year. The UK has agreed to recognise Nepal’s nursing qualifications, saying these will automatically provide the right to work in the NHS. The bilateral agreement could pave the way for thousands more Nepalese nurses to join the health service. Nepalese officials said all nurses aged 20 to 45 were eligible to apply for the scheme, adding they would not have to pay any fees and would get a salary of £27,000 to £32,000. It is part of an international recruitment drive to address a shortage of 50,000 nurses and midwives. Nepal is on a recruitment “red list”, drawn up by the World Health Organisation to prevent unethical recruitment from countries with shortages of health workers. Nepal has a health worker to population ratio of 0.67 doctors and nurses per 1,000. The WHO recommends 2.3 per 1,000. A “memorandum of understanding” signed by Britain and Nepal gets around the red-list recruitment restrictions as it is a direct agreement between the two countries. The deal, the first on labour supply between Britain and Nepal, comes amid concerns over the NHS’s overreliance on foreign nurses. Almost half of the 48,436 people who joined the nursing and midwifery workforce in the past year were from overseas, mostly from India and the Philippines. Pat Cullen, chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, said: “Ministers must stop the overreliance on overseas staff and do more to invest in the recruitment and retention of the domestic workforce. This starts with pay. Nursing staff have endured a decade of real terms pay cuts.” The Department of Health said: “Internationally trained staff have been part of the NHS since its inception in 1948 and continue to play a vital role.” Discover more from The Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Her and that fat cockbag well matched it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 hours ago, jack D and coke said: Her and that fat cockbag well matched it seems. I’m sick of hearing this utter BS that was continually trotted out by the Leave cultists. One more time. EU standards on everything are THE MINIMUM. Any member country was and is, free to operate to a higher standard if they so wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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