jack D and coke Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 9 hours ago, Ulysses said: What do you mean? I mean we’d get in. If we wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Is change afoot, folks. Looks like it to me. Perhaps the dumb masses did know what they were doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 58 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: I mean we’d get in. If we wanted to. Ully decides if we do or don't. No doubt our government, which is entwined with the EU will have to impose a load of shite, every ***** else doesn't. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Another glorious Brexit win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Another glorious Brexit win Looks like he's walking next to a huge turd. The Crown Prince that is Edited June 26, 2022 by Riccarton3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 It's all a bit 'dog bites man' but it's worth just spelling it out for those poor hard of thinking souls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 (edited) Aye but it must be grand coz Sir Kier Starmer thinks Brexit is barry and the UK won't be re-joining the customs union, schengen area or anything else to do with the EU if he was PM What is the point of Labour? Edited July 4, 2022 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, Cade said: Aye but it must be grand coz Sir Kier Starmer thinks Brexit is barry and the UK won't be re-joining the customs union, schengen area or anything else to do with the EU if he was PM What is the point of Labour? Let’s hope beergate is his undoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Cade said: Aye but it must be grand coz Sir Kier Starmer thinks Brexit is barry and the UK won't be re-joining the customs union, schengen area or anything else to do with the EU if he was PM What is the point of Labour? Get ready for 5 more years of Bunters Junta. Starmer just signed Labours suicide note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cade said: Aye but it must be grand coz Sir Kier Starmer thinks Brexit is barry and the UK won't be re-joining the customs union, schengen area or anything else to do with the EU if he was PM What is the point of Labour? Indeed. What is the point. Its not supporting the working man. They are mirroring the Tories. Of course we all know why Labour or anyone else wont support return to EU, that is if you know the real reason behind Brexit. It wasnt keep immigrants out or taking back control (those were siren calls to get the masses to vote for it) it was one thing and one thing only: Impending money laundering and tax haven rules in EU. All the parties are at it which is why none support returning to EU despite the mess. For anyone attacking the SNP who hsve donated pay rises to charity for years, they are no where close to the corrupt red and blue in Westmonster. Edited July 5, 2022 by That thing you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Cade said: Aye but it must be grand coz Sir Kier Starmer thinks Brexit is barry and the UK won't be re-joining the customs union, schengen area or anything else to do with the EU if he was PM What is the point of Labour? If he proposes any of those things he would be unelectable, the media and Tories would destroy him as ignoring the will of the people. Labour can't get into govt without the Leave vote and telling them they were wrong won't win votes , that's the sad truth. It puts it back in the Tory court now, they own it , they have to make it work and they can't deflect by saying Labour are threatening to undo brexit. There's millions out there who can't heat and eat and for whom brexit isn't an issue right now . Labour need to get into power first and foremost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Starmer knows that he has to get some of the pro Brexit voters especially up north on side . I'd imagine he would look to join the EU at a later date It's all about winning the next GE and he thinks this approach will be moe positive than negative . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 9 hours ago, Cade said: Aye but it must be grand coz Sir Kier Starmer thinks Brexit is barry and the UK won't be re-joining the customs union, schengen area or anything else to do with the EU if he was PM What is the point of Labour? Think he was just trying to avoid a GE that was a proxy Brexit vote. If Labour win the GE they may take the view that they tried to make Brexit work but can’t then reassess options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 23 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said: Starmer knows that he has to get some of the pro Brexit voters especially up north on side . I'd imagine he would look to join the EU at a later date It's all about winning the next GE and he thinks this approach will be moe positive than negative . I was outraged initially but on balance you are probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 hour ago, periodictabledancer said: If he proposes any of those things he would be unelectable, the media and Tories would destroy him as ignoring the will of the people. Labour can't get into govt without the Leave vote and telling them they were wrong won't win votes , that's the sad truth. It puts it back in the Tory court now, they own it , they have to make it work and they can't deflect by saying Labour are threatening to undo brexit. There's millions out there who can't heat and eat and for whom brexit isn't an issue right now . Labour need to get into power first and foremost. I agree. The LibDems tried the re joining the EU theme last time and failed miserably. Maybe as much down to having a leader that the people didn't like. Labour have to get in first before easing the burden of Brexit. Allowing the Conservatives to bang the drum about Labour not respecting democracy, would play right into their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Cade said: What is the point of Labour? A question for the ages. It's even worse up here as it's a branch office operation. Utterly redundant. 12 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said: Get ready for 5 more years of Bunters Junta. Starmer just signed Labours suicide note. The Junta will undoubtedly roll on but Bunter may no longer be the driver. Starmer is trying to be clever. Trying to get the 'red wall' seats back, however that'll still leave him well short of a win. Meanwhile the branch office manager up here is giving it the big 'un about what they're not going to do with regards to a coalition. It's like me saying I definitely would not under any circumstances shag Kylie Minogue. Edited July 5, 2022 by The Mighty Thor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 13 hours ago, Cade said: Aye but it must be grand coz Sir Kier Starmer thinks Brexit is barry and the UK won't be re-joining the customs union, schengen area or anything else to do with the EU if he was PM What is the point of Labour? Yes I can’t believe labour policy regarding re joining the EU .. oh wait I can ! However I suppose it’s cannae politics really if they want re elected as they will need to get votes of some of the Brexit mob? Once they are in power they can re think brexit ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said: Starmer knows that he has to get some of the pro Brexit voters especially up north on side . I'd imagine he would look to join the EU at a later date It's all about winning the next GE and he thinks this approach will be moe positive than negative . 👍 2 hours ago, SectionDJambo said: I agree. The LibDems tried the re joining the EU theme last time and failed miserably. Maybe as much down to having a leader that the people didn't like. Labour have to get in first before easing the burden of Brexit. Allowing the Conservatives to bang the drum about Labour not respecting democracy, would play right into their hands. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Post referendum it became clear that there was no solution that would ever satisfy ERG & UKIP other than the one we now have. Any compromise would have been rejected and vilified by them as the reason why Brexit isn't working. Any softer compromise would be Brexit in name only and a slap in the face to the electorate. So they got their way. It hasn't altered the reality that they won't ever take responsibility for their actions but nevertheless it has become perfectly apparent that the down side would be expensive, inconvenient and unnecessarily difficult when balanced against benefits of nominal sovereignty to do .... well to do what? The idea of just rejoining the Single Market/Customs Union puts the UK in the position of having to align and abide by EU rules without having any influence on the making of those rules which surely would be the ultimate loss of sovereignty. Labour's approach feels realistic in that it should pin the blame fairly and squarely on Boris's Brexit and all who sailed in her. It's baby steps back towards a more positive and healthier relationship with the EU. It's an Irish passport for me though next time I renew 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 EU moves unilaterally to end a grace period and withdraws 115 grants from UK based scientists. 18 grants were given on the proviso that the academics move to EU nations. They are all making plans to leave the UK. Let the brain drain commence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Lord Michael Heseltine has said that 'if Boris goes, Brexit goes', as he urges the next Conservative Party leader to renew ties with Brussels. The former Deputy Prime Minister said Boris Johnson's departure will likely lead to a shake-up in relations with the European Union, as it was the key policy he nurtured. He also warned that "extreme anti-Europeanism and right-wingism" would be a "suicide course" for the party. His comments come after a turbulent week of walkouts by Mr Johnson's top team, with dozens of MPs saying they could no longer serve under his leadership. "I'm absolutely clear that we need a deputy Prime Minister to act in the interregnum before a new Prime Minister is chosen," Lord Heseltine told Sky News. "It's quite obvious that Boris Johnson, if he were allowed to stay, is going to try to procure a range of policies that will bolster his position. So that's unthinkable. "The critical thing here is that Boris is associated with one major policy, and that is Brexit. I coined the phrase 'if Boris goes, Brexit goes'. "To me, the big and interesting dilemma is the way in which Keir Starmer has been wrong-footed in making these anti-European speeches, as he has, on the basis that he was going to fight Boris Johnson. "Now, of course, the Tory party is going to have to find a new leader. My belief is that there will be a return to sanity towards our policies about Europe which will make Keir Starmer look, I think, rather foolish." Lord Heseltine said a new leader must be appointed very soon to prevent Mr Johnson "maneuvering and manipulating power in the dying days of his premiership." He said he didn't think the next Prime Minister would try to take Britain back into the EU, but would seek to establish a "more positive relationship with Europe". If they do not, he said the Conservative Party risks losing seats to the Liberal Democrats, which wants to rejoin the EU. Public opinion is that Brexit was a "disaster", he said, adding: "Extreme anti-Europeanism and right-wingism is a suicide course for the Tory Party in the context of the economic circumstances we are facing." He said Boris Johnson had been "a disastrous Prime Minister in the conduct of the nation's affairs" and has "trashed" the reputation of Britain and the Conservative Party. "I think his colleagues should have acted more decisively and earlier," he said. https://apple.news/A2XuMp1UBS-u69ZIPtstQgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Heseltine has been saying, 'if Boris goes, Brexit goes', for a very long time. Not literally of course but what he is suggesting is that is the beginning of the end for Brexit (at least the Hard Brexit we were lumbered with). In that regard, I think he is correct but it is going to take a while for that to start to unfold. Thank god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Brexiters always ask for more but really want less Having won the Referendum, Brexiters seem surprisingly unhappy and, on social media especially, as angry as ever. Whilst remainers look on aghast as the government pursues hard Brexit, some Brexiters are talking of betrayal. Nigel Farage did so as early as November 2016, and continues to do so now and it’s a sentiment shared by many leave voters according to a recent Reuters report. For some, at least, of those voters their disappointment will arise from the lies and half-truths told by the Leave campaign. The campaign leaders repeatedly claimed that leaving the EU would be a quick and easy matter, whatever some of them now say to the contrary. That Brexit turns out to be long, complex and painful may make ordinary leave voters feel betrayed by the government; in fact they have been betrayed by the Brexiters. However, for the Brexiters themselves something different is going on. The key to understanding these ideologues is that whatever concession is made to them they will demand another. This has been evident in the Tory party for some years. Most recently, as soon as Cameron offered them a Referendum they started agitating about the wording of the question and the framing of the response (specifically, they did not want it to be ‘yes’ or ‘no’ with ‘yes’ being ‘remain’) and the franchise (they did not want 16/17 year olds or long-term expatriates to have a vote). They got their way on all these things, but there were bigger issues at stake. Until fairly recently (although not, it is true, during the Referendum campaign itself) Farage and UKIP were quite happy with a Norway-style Brexit (i.e. remaining in the single market). And during the Referendum campaign itself many in Vote Leave said that this was exactly what Brexit would mean. High profile examples included Owen Paterson MP and Daniel Hannan MEP. Thus Hannan (who, by the way, has blocked me on Twitter where I reminded him of this) said: “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market”. These things, for all that they are denied by Brexiters now, are a matter of public record. See here and here and here. But as soon as they had won the Referendum this was not enough. Brexit, they now insisted (£), had to mean hard Brexit – primarily leaving the single market but also any form of ECJ jurisdiction, and negotiating a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the EU. When Theresa May became PM she could have used the opportunity to initiate a national, public conversation about what form Brexit should take. Instead, during those long months of ‘Brexit means Brexit’ what happened was a private, internal conversation in the Tory Party from which emerged the Lancaster House speech in January declaring without any comparative analysis of the different options that Brexit meant hard Brexit. That, as we are seeing, is proving a much more complex matter than the Brexiters asserted because of the scale of what is involved – not just regarding trade – and the time frames available, about which I written about endlessly on this blog. But now the Brexiters are not satisfied with hard Brexit anyway. Just as before, having had concessions made to them (with that on the single market the hugest of all) they are coming back for more. Thus, just today, the Institute for Economic Affairs make the case of leaving with no deal at all. And whilst this is well into the terrain of madness, in the wilder fringes of Brexiter-land it is a very moderate position. UKIP at the last election, for example, were advocating pulling out of the Article 50 negotiations altogether. So trying to give Brexiters what they want in order to appease them proves to be pointless: whatever they are given they come back, like blackmailers or protection racketeers, with even more extortionate demands. But there is more to it than that. There is a strain amongst the Brexit ultras which actually does not want to get its way but which wants to feel victimised. The victim narrative in which an unholy alliance of big corporations, pointy-headed experts and limp-wristed liberals, the amorphous and hydra-headed ‘elite’, were ganging up on 'ordinary people' ran throughout the Referendum campaign and its aftermath. Never mind that Leave was bankrolled by millionaires and fronted by public school and Oxbridge career politicians. And this is the reason why the Brexiters are not happy in victory and why they keep asking for more. Winning and having their demands met strips them of the victim status they wallow in. So their moment of triumph in the Referendum was also the moment of their defeat, and the reason they so assiduously seek out signs of betrayal is that betrayal is what would most readily allow a return to the comfort zone of victimhood. For the same reason, the narrative of being 'punished' by the EU is actually appealing to them. Likewise, only by constantly asking for more can they hope to reach the point where they are told they can have no more and, in that moment, again feel the masochistic thrill of being aggrieved. The tragedy for those of us who do not share this peculiar political pathology is that we are dragged further and further away from any remotely pragmatic policy. The reason why the government is currently in such a mess over Brexit is that it is trying to do the impossible: satisfy the demands of Brexiters without completely wrecking the economy. But without wrecking the economy the ever more extreme demands of the Brexiters can’t be met. Theresa May had the chance to draw a line in the sand last year but she ducked it, choosing instead to draw red lines with the EU, and she no longer has the authority to do so. So now we are stuck, an entire nation shackled to the whims of a relatively small number of people who – like rebellious teenagers secretly wanting to be set boundaries - demand total victory whilst craving defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 They're trying to steal your Brexit likesy 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Not sure why the French are to blame for the UK leaving the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 13 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: Not sure why the French are to blame for the UK leaving the EU? Oh, it's quite simple to the Brexit loons. The EU has laws regarding 3rd party nations and their borders. UK chose to become a 3rd party nation. EU applies the rules. UK suffers. The Bloody EU is to blame for enforcing its own rules when it should have waived them for The Mighty British Empire 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 58 minutes ago, Cade said: Oh, it's quite simple to the Brexit loons. The EU has laws regarding 3rd party nations and their borders. UK chose to become a 3rd party nation. EU applies the rules. UK suffers. The Bloody EU is to blame for enforcing its own rules when it should have waived them for The Mighty British Empire 2.0 And they didn't have to leave the EU to protect their borders. Brexit bonus 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 31 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: And they didn't have to leave the EU to protect their borders. Brexit bonus 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 EU launches new legal challenge to force the UK to ACTUALLY Get Brexit Done by ending the transition period and implement the Northern Ireland Protocol in full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 And the Brexit bonuses keeps on coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 5 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: Not sure why the French are to blame for the UK leaving the EU? The utter hypocrisy here is unreal. There 's been massive queues at UK airports for months where visitors are regularly delayed for hours . Foreign hgv drivers are routinely stacked on the M20 with massive delays. Up to 30 hour delays in processing hgvs for Dover but long delays for all ports. Meanwhile, English schools broke up yesterday and the English expect France to double THEIR immigration resources for a near 24/7 service while refusing to do anything for visitors entering the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 hour ago, periodictabledancer said: The utter hypocrisy here is unreal. There 's been massive queues at UK airports for months where visitors are regularly delayed for hours . Foreign hgv drivers are routinely stacked on the M20 with massive delays. Up to 30 hour delays in processing hgvs for Dover but long delays for all ports. Meanwhile, English schools broke up yesterday and the English expect France to double THEIR immigration resources for a near 24/7 service while refusing to do anything for visitors entering the UK. Pretty much why independence from England is the most celebrated holiday on the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Chrisgreybrexit Edit Unfollow Suffocating unreality by Chris Grey Jul 22, 2022 An air of sticky and suffocating unreality has pervaded British politics this week, quite as much as it has the weather. The ongoing contest to replace Boris Johnson seems completely detached from the realities of a country enduring a sharp lesson in the what climate change is going to mean, still gripped by a pandemic that with “dangerous complacency” is treated as being over, suffering the misery of record NHS waiting lists, and facing multiple economic crises. And, as always, though no candidate to be Prime Minister can admit it, there is the ongoing, dragging undertow of Brexit, which has ripped up fifty years of economic and foreign policy strategy whilst its advocates are still unable to identify a viable alternative. Against this background, the leadership contest has come down to the absurdly narrow canvas of whether there should be tax cuts now or next year. It’s beyond pitiful. Johnson’s squalid departure That unreality is compounded by the fact that whilst Johnson’s shameful premiership is in one sense over, it still lingers on, like those apocryphal guillotined heads which continue to speak after being severed. In his case, that speech consists not of repentance for the crimes that led to his execution, but is more like a foul-mouthed reminder of why the court passed sentence. For, unsurprisingly, he is not passing his final weeks as a dignified caretaker of the nation. Rather, he skips vital meetings to host parties in his taxpayer-funded mansion, cadges outings in RAF fighter planes, makes spiteful boasts about his previous illegal actions, and hatches tawdry schemes to reward his cronies with seats in the House of Lords. Nothing so vividly illustrates the many reasons, at once banal and corrupt, that he was unfit to hold office as the squalid manner of his departure from it. Perhaps most dangerous in the long-term, whilst bragging emptily of having ‘got Brexit done’, Johnson speaks, Trump-like, of plots by the “deep State” and Labour to undo Brexit. Having done so much to saddle the country with Brexit, and in a particularly damaging form, his words can only contribute to making it still harder for any future government even to ameliorate it. They set the stage for him to continue to exert a malign influence on British politics for, as Rafael Behr, consistently Britain’s best political columnist, perfectly puts it, “the role of former Prime Minister will suit his taste for elevated status without any burden of responsibility”. At the same time, the very fact that Johnson and so many other Brexiters warn of the possibility of Brexit being ‘undone’ is a vivid testimony to their and its abject failure. Brexiters envisaged themselves as having ‘liberated the nation’ and they promised a great future, not at some distant time but immediately. Yet, over six years since the vote, the number of people who think Brexit was a mistake is now at a “record high”. Even so, audaciously, Brexiters like Reform Party leader Richard Tice implore them to “put their shoulder behind making [Brexit] a huge success”. That’s pretty rich given that not only have the advice and warnings of remainers been treated with contempt, but that Brexiters assured everyone that there would be no wheel to put any shoulders behind: the success was guaranteed. Instead, Brexit has, on any reasonable reckoning of its effects and its popularity, failed as a project of national liberation and renewal. But, as outlined in last week’s post, it has been barely discussed in the leadership election. As Annette Dittert, the outstanding foreign correspondent who heads the London Bureau of German broadcaster ARD, observes in her fine, wide-ranging essay on the coming post-Johnson era, “none of the would-be successors has the courage to question the founding myth behind all this chaos: Brexit. None of them will admit that the latter is little more than a mirage”. In that respect, there is little to choose between the final two candidates, Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss, but it is still (just about) worth considering each of them in relation to Brexit. Rishi’s reheated Brexit Sunak has produced a peculiar black and white video, in the style of an old-fashioned public information film entitled ‘Rishi and Brexit’. It introduces the slogan ‘keep Brexit safe’, which itself panders to the paranoid idea that it is under threat, without remotely acknowledging why it is so lacking in support. To the extent that he provides any detail on what his Brexit policy is, it has nothing to do with demonstrating its virtues to those who don’t support it, and is entirely to do with trying to satisfy the fantasies of those who do. As a consequence, his plans are also startlingly unoriginal because, like Johnson’s government, he faces exactly the same constraints. The only things which might ‘improve’ Brexit would involve, at the very least, a wholesale renegotiation of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement. Since that is inadmissible within the Tory Party, all he can offer is to make the most of the new opportunities provided by Brexit. But, as the government has already found, Brexit provides no worthwhile new opportunities at all. Thus in his Sunday Telegraph article Sunak propounds as ‘his’ Brexit policy the same old things that have been floating around since Johnson came to power. There are freeports (already underway, but as I’ve discussed before, they were possible without Brexit, albeit with different rules, and of dubious advantage). There’s reforming Solvency II regulation (already underway, but as I’ve discussed beforethere’s no consensus in the insurance industry that this is desirable and, anyway, the EU is considering similar plans). There’s removing GDPR (already underway, and likely to be extremely disadvantageous for British businesses). There’s speeding up clinical trials approvals (a policy announced in 2020, but the UK is now falling behind the EU in the approval of ‘novel medicines’ (£) because Brexit means the UK is too small a market for companies to bother with separate British approval processes, which is also indicative of the more general weakness of the case for bespoke national regulation. And last year the regulatory agency had budgets and staffing slashed, partly because of loss of EU funds following … Brexit). Additionally, Sunak promises a ‘bonfire’ of retained EU laws and regulation, a promise already made by Jacob Rees-Mogg has already done although Sunak proposes to act even more quickly (yet leaked documents show that just a few weeks ago, when Chancellor, he had warned against moving even at Rees-Mogg’s slower speed and also sought specific exemptions from it). More generally, as a recent National Audit Office report has shown, the moves to independent national regulation are fraught with problems of access to EU data and of staffing. Finally, Sunak proposes yet another “new Brexit delivery department” to be created, as if, somehow, this will achieve what the Brexit Opportunities Unit and Rees-Mogg, the Brexit Opportunities Minister have thus far failed to. In short, this is all re-heated stuff, none of which constitutes benefits of Brexit, and most of which is founded on the delusion of sovereignty in regulation. The constant refrain that Brexit will allow red tape to be cut for businesses is simply nonsense. Just this week, the Cabinet Office was publicising its recent video showing exactly how difficult it now is to export to the EU as a result of the hard Brexit Johnson negotiated, whilst an all-party group of MPs called for the red tape for musicians touring the EU to be cut – but vainly, since that is not in Britain’s power having turned down an agreement with the EU that would allow it. Sunak isn’t a liar in the way that Johnson is, and he undoubtedly engages with and understands technical detail far better, but he is trapped by the lies of the Johnson Brexit that he proposes to keep safe. Moreover, on what, as I said last week, will be the immediate Brexit issue facing the new PM, namely the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill (NIPB), Sunak has said he will persist with it without saying much more, including, crucially, how far he would push its demands. Allies of Johnson have warned that the former Chancellor would, in their terms, take a “soft line” over the Protocol, whilst some Northern Irish unionists have already called him “an appeaser”. It may indeed be that if he wins he will be minded to be more pragmatic than he has so far indicated. If so, he will face an immediate crisis within his party. If not, he will fairly soon face one with the EU. Support for Truss The most widely discussed thing about Liz Truss is – ought to be - the least important thing, namely that she campaigned for remain in the referendum but has now so fully embraced hard Brexit. Within that discussion The idea that this is some sort of ‘gotcha’ moment demonstrating hypocrisy is naïve. Plenty of politicians have shifted in similar ways – old school Tories who became ardent Thatcherites, or those, sometimes very far to the left, who became enthusiastic New Labourites. Opportunistic? Maybe, but I doubt many experience any inner conflict or embarrassment. Such journeys are easily, and not necessarily dishonestly, rationalised as ‘pragmatism’. It may even go deeper than that. I recently described Truss as a “born-again Ultra”, and there’s certainly no reason to assume that new or late converts to any cause are lacking in devotion to it; more often they are the most excessive in their zealotry. The people least likely to realise that will be the original Brexit Ultras who, like Alte Kameraden suspecting the motives of March Violets, will be especially attuned to seeing any sign of heresy. So for all that Truss is now their preferred candidate, with her ‘journey’ lauded by Steve Baker, that means that she will have very little room for manoeuvre if she is to avoid Theresa May’s fate of being first feted and then disowned by the Ultras. Indeed on the wilder fringes of Conservative opinion she is already regarded with suspicionand ominous comparisons are being drawn with May. Truss’s downfall will come, like May, not because she is a closet remainer but because she will try to turn their fantasies into realities. For now, she owes her position as the darling of the Brexiters in parliament and the party to the sustenance she has given those fantasies. It wasn’t just by espousing Brexit and indulging in Thatcher-themed photo shoots. It began when, as International Trade Secretary, she began to oversee the development of an independent trade policy. That process had been started by Liam Fox, but she inherited and continued the programme of rolled over and new trade deals, earning breathless plaudits from both the tabloid and broadsheet (£) press. For Brexiters, new trade deals are one of the few things that they can truthfully say would not have been possible without Brexit. Although they typically conflate the two, and over-state their value, rolled over trade deals are different, in that they wouldn’t have been necessary but for Brexit. But it’s also the case that this is one area that has proved many critics – including me – wrong, in that we doubted it would be possible to achieve the rollover of so many of the EU deals as happened (even if not always on quite such good terms, but sometimes, as in the case of Japan, on very slightly better ones). So whilst the rolled over deals weren’t a benefit of Brexit they were something about which ‘Project Fear’ could legitimately be said to have been largely discredited. As for the new trade deals, that is a very different matter. No one doubted that it would be possible for the UK to reach some Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) on its own, the question was always about their quality and their value. What Truss did, as is becoming clearer by the day, for example in relation to the much-trumpeted Australia deal which is now just about to be ratified, was to accept any terms, no matter how disadvantageous to British farmers and the environment or to animal welfare standards, and regardless of how small the benefit and how great the cost, out of desperation to achieve a quick deal. Even more dishonest was her pretence that straightforward commercial deals, such as that with India, of the sort that the UK could and did enter into whilst an EU member, were only possible because of Brexit with the implication that they were also FTAs. So her approach was purely performative but, more than anyone or anything else, she and these trade deals have given Brexiters something to crow about when the rest of their project is so manifestly failing. In particular, despite their constant assertion that Brexit was ‘never about economics’, it has enabled them to fabricate an economic case for Brexit. This is the main reason why Truss is in the position she is, a position she is now building on with her tax-cutting mantra, and why she is the currently the favourite to win the grassroots vote. Subsequently, as Foreign Secretary, she inherited responsibility from David Frost for managing post-Brexit relations with the EU, including the ongoing disputes over the Northern Ireland Protocol. Initially, she seemed to offer a change of tone, but that was quickly abandoned and she became the architect of the NIPB. Some speculate this was because she was already preparing the ground for a leadership bid, or it may reflect a genuine shift in her position. Either way it means that, whilst the EU is likely to take a similarly firm line on the Protocol whoever becomes PM (£), it is already reported by knowledgeable experts such as Mujtaba Rahman of Eurasia Group and Anton Spisak of the Tony Blair Institute that a Truss premiership would face deep distrust from the EU. I imagine that the Irish Tea Sock would be similarly unenthusiastic. I have not seen anything that Truss has said to suggest that her ideas about what to do with Brexit are any different to the boilerplate stuff that Sunak and others regurgitate about regulatory divergence and so on. It may be that, as her performative approach to trade deals shows, she would be (even) more likely than him to champion purely symbolic changes, regardless of their damage. Maybe that will be enough to sustain her support amongst Brexiters, even if it drags the country further into the economic mire. There may also be no difference in practice in how Sunak and Truss approach the immediate test of the NIPB which has now passed through the Commons, despite the ongoing contest, although it won’t reach the Lords until after the Summer Recess, by which time the new leader will be chosen. Truss, of course, is the Bill’s sponsor, so she would seem even less likely to seek any kind of rapprochement with the EU than Sunak, and to have even less political leeway to do so. So if she wins she is unlikely to face an immediate crisis within her party, but seems certain to face one with the EU before the year is out. That, too, would endear her to the Brexiters, but there will be a high political price to pay in other ways. Brexit is too big for either of them Whilst the candidates chunter on about how soon to cut taxes, and vie with each other to persuade the airless echo chamber of the decrepit party membership which of them is the most ‘Thatcherite’, and as Johnson sees out his last few weeks of malevolent indolence, the realities of Brexit are ignored as if they are too boring, or simply settled. The truth is that Brexit is just too big for either of the would-be leaders, or the ones who they defeated in the earlier rounds, to face up to. Too big for the Labour leadership, for that matter (on which, more is planned to come in next week’s post). We’ve become a country which is too scared of itself to talk about what it’s doing to itself. But Brexit won’t go away. It may indeed be tedious, it may be too frightening to discuss, but it is very far from settled. Whoever becomes the next Prime Minister will be doing so just as, to quote Rafael Behr again, but this time from his recent Prospect essay, “the peak of the [Brexit] illusion has faded” and “the great illusionist [Johnson] has been unmasked”. Yet observing the leadership contest, Annette Dittert, in her New Statesman essay, concludes that “after having banged their heads into the brick wall of Brexit reality, the new Tory strategy seems to be to just keep on banging, only this time with a longer run-up”. And, indeed, that is exactly what the Brexit Ultras are currently demanding. If the new administration pursues that line, then more and more failure and damage will accrue. Or, if it takes an even slightly more ‘pragmatic’ approach, it will once again, this time with Johnson egging the fight on, be torn apart by the never-ending Tory war on Europe. We are in for a long, hot summer before we know which of Sunak and Truss will prevail. It probably won’t tell us much more about what will happen afterwards as regards Brexit, but a great deal of that is predictable. For unreal as the present political debate may be, the realities of Brexit are all too clear, and just as resistant to Brexiter fantasies as they have ever been. Continue Reading You Might Like Follow more feeds You have a website? Also use follow.it - it has many advantages. To unsubscribe please click on the "Unfollow"-link next to the feed's title or click here to unfollow several feeds in one go. This email was sent by follow.it. 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Boof Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I seem to recall we had an IN/OUT EEC referendum 2.5 years after joining. I wonder if there'd be an appetite for another IN/OUT referendum 2.5 years after leaving the EU (whenever that happens) since, despite what the lying philanderer likes to tell us, he DIDN'T 'get Brexit done'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Been on holiday to Europe 3 times in the last 6 months and breezed through their airports in minutes The French have been twats long before Brexit. Obnoxious arseholes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: Been on holiday to Europe 3 times in the last 6 months and breezed through their airports in minutes The French have been twats long before Brexit. Obnoxious arseholes The French are so like the English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Interesting to hear some international perspectives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micole Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 36 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: Been on holiday to Europe 3 times in the last 6 months and breezed through their airports in minutes The French have been twats long before Brexit. Obnoxious arseholes Nope....holiday home in France for 10 years, small village in the Loire region. The locals were very friendly and couldn't be more helpful. The only arseholes we met were a couple of Brits in the village, who felt everything should have been like what they were used to in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 6 French immigration officers instead of 14. The French blaming a technical issue in the Chanel tunnel for the lateness of their staff. Euro tunnel said their were no major issues in the tunnel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, micole said: Nope....holiday home in France for 10 years, small village in the Loire region. The locals were very friendly and couldn't be more helpful. The only arseholes we met were a couple of Brits in the village, who felt everything should have been like what they were used to in the UK. I'm not saying all French are arrogant twats, just most of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micole Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said: I'm not saying all French are arrogant twats, just most of them That's the problem with sweeping statements....🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micole Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: 6 French immigration officers instead of 14. The French blaming a technical issue in the Chanel tunnel for the lateness of their staff. Euro tunnel said their were no major issues in the tunnel Ok, Devils Advocate here. Why should it be up to the French to put on enough staff ect.....it's their border they can man it as they see fit, if we did not have Brexit would the backlog move quicker....I don't know all I do know Brexit does not help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, micole said: Ok, Devils Advocate here. Why should it be up to the French to put on enough staff ect.....it's their border they can man it as they see fit, if we did not have Brexit would the backlog move quicker....I don't know all I do know Brexit does not help. I think it was all planned with the French beforehand. It will work both ways. There will be UK border staff in Caley too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micole Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: I think it was all planned with the French beforehand. It will work both ways. There will be UK border staff in Caley too Oooooo....you cynic you.....😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, micole said: Oooooo....you cynic you.....😂😂 No, I mean the French and the UK border forces had everything planned and in place together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micole Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: No, I mean the French and the UK border forces had everything planned and in place together Nooo....working with those damm Frencies will just no do😂. We want to control oor own borders....blah blah blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, micole said: Nooo....working with those damm Frencies will just no do😂. We want to control oor own borders....blah blah blah. I suppose it's the same as our police, armed forces and intelligence agencies all working together. Some things shouldn't change much after Brexit, unless someone wants to teach us a lesson along the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Everybody that voted for brexit should have their voting right removed indefinitely. F****** morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said: Everybody that voted for brexit should have their voting right removed indefinitely. F****** morons. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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