Barcelona

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Family of missing 7 yr old British boy Julian Cadman have confirmed that he died in the attack.

 

7 years old FFS, no mercy nor quarter should be shown or giving when dealing with these terrorist scum, they show us none.

[AlphonseCapone]

Local imam at Barca mosque believed to have led and radicalised this teen cell and is now doing a B1.

 

But still, I'm sure its not about religion.

 

It would be good if MSM could for once actually point out what these chaps are being 'radical' about.

What do you mean? Islam?

 

I've seen you mention quite a few times about this but I'm not sure what your angling at. Everyone knows this about religion and Islam. What makes you think they don't?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

What do you mean? Islam?

 

I've seen you mention quite a few times about this but I'm not sure what your angling at. Everyone knows this about religion and Islam. What makes you think they don't?

 

Good question.

 

I also find it odd how those who are so certain of the motive for these attacks never seem to spend any time looking for other commonalities. If this is about Islam why is the demographic profile of these attackers so narrow? Why are they almost always men and why are they almost always young? If this was purely about Islam surely we'd see older attackers who had been exposed to the religion for much longer, no?

[Morgan]

Family of missing 7 yr old British boy Julian Cadman have confirmed that he died in the attack.

 

7 years old FFS, no mercy nor quarter should be shown or giving when dealing with these terrorist scum, they show us none.

Aw man, that's heartbreaking.

 

Bloody 7 years old.

 

I'm nowhere near as educated on this subject as others but these attackers are just b@stards.

[AlphonseCapone]

Good question.

 

I also find it odd how those who are so certain of the motive for these attacks never seem to spend any time looking for other commonalities. If this is about Islam why is the demographic profile of these attackers so narrow? Why are they almost always men and why are they almost always young? If this was purely about Islam surely we'd see older attackers who had been exposed to the religion for much longer, no?

That's the thing, it's such a complex issue but as typical with people, folk try to boil it down to black and white.

 

To add to your point, many of them are exposed as being pretty terrible Muslims, especially for those who are meant to be the most strict. Many who smoke and drink and go clubbing etc.

 

The profile of these people is strikingly similar to the profile of those most likely to join gangs in LA or the favelas in Brazil, or those most likely to become football casuals over here etc. The extreme nature of what joining each of these "tribes" entails is of course very different, from the comparatively innocent football hooligan who will at worst give someone a good kicking in most circumstances to the gang banger in L.A. who will murder a rival gang member only to those who will blow up tens of innocents. But there are a wide array of factors that play into that. Our whole schema of existence can't comprehend killing innocent people. The same can't necessarily be said for those indoctrinated into extreme Islam where the Qu'aran provides many ideal passages to radicalise vulnerable people. Add to this that those who come from certain countries or have family in certain countries have a familiarity with death and violence we can't begin to comprehend.

 

The psycholigical profile of many young men across the world who can be persuaded to join many a cause to find a sense of belonging is interestingly similar. But it is only one piece of a complex jigsaw. None of it excuses the people or fails to acknowledge that Islam has a special part to play in the type of violence we see from those particular people.

 

No doubt above will be denounced as liberal, academic nonsense.

[Gorgiewave]

The Catalan regional government is quoting some victims as Catalan and others as being Spanish nationals. Cretins. If there was an attack in Scotland, we could expect the exact same cretinism.

[AlphonseCapone]

The Catalan regional government is quoting some victims as Catalan and others as being Spanish nationals. Cretins. If there was an attack in Scotland, we could expect the exact same cretinism.

Grow up ffs.

[Gorgiewave]

Grow up ffs.

No.

[AlphonseCapone]

No.

Least you're honest about being immature I guess.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

That's the thing, it's such a complex issue but as typical with people, folk try to boil it down to black and white.

 

To add to your point, many of them are exposed as being pretty terrible Muslims, especially for those who are meant to be the most strict. Many who smoke and drink and go clubbing etc.

 

The profile of these people is strikingly similar to the profile of those most likely to join gangs in LA or the favelas in Brazil, or those most likely to become football casuals over here etc. The extreme nature of what joining each of these "tribes" entails is of course very different, from the comparatively innocent football hooligan who will at worst give someone a good kicking in most circumstances to the gang banger in L.A. who will murder a rival gang member only to those who will blow up tens of innocents. But there are a wide array of factors that play into that. Our whole schema of existence can't comprehend killing innocent people. The same can't necessarily be said for those indoctrinated into extreme Islam where the Qu'aran provides many ideal passages to radicalise vulnerable people. Add to this that those who come from certain countries or have family in certain countries have a familiarity with death and violence we can't begin to comprehend.

 

The psycholigical profile of many young men across the world who can be persuaded to join many a cause to find a sense of belonging is interestingly similar. But it is only one piece of a complex jigsaw. None of it excuses the people or fails to acknowledge that Islam has a special part to play in the type of violence we see from those particular people.

 

No doubt above will be denounced as liberal, academic nonsense.

Great post, especially the third paragraph. These guys have so much more in common with the examples you gave than they do with 65 year old Muslim grandmothers from Tehran or Jakarta. Quoting script from the Koran barely even scratches the surface of understanding why this happens.

[Cade]

Many of the most recent attackers have been:

Young

Poor

Petty criminals known to police for years

Drinkers/drug users (not exactly model muslims)

Recruited in prison

 

Very similar to gang members across the world. 

[John Findlay]

Personally I don't call these people terrorists. I just call them murderers as to me that is exactly what they are.

[Morgan]

Personally I don't call these people terrorists. I just call them murderers as to me that is exactly what they are.

Agree with you John.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Personally I don't call these people terrorists. I just call them murderers as to me that is exactly what they are.

No they aren't. Most murder cases are not indiscriminate. In a huge number of murder cases, the offender knows their victim.

 

Barcelona was 100% indiscriminate and terrorism is what it is. Islamic terrorism to be more precise.

[XB52]

So Islam should be beyond criticism as an ideology because you don't want to be perceived as "blaming all Muslims"?  Utterly absurd.  There are plenty of Muslims (sufi's for example) who interpret various aspects of the Quran as being 'spitirual' - there Muslims (Wahhabists for example) that believe in an entirely literal interpretation (kill unbelievers where you may find them).  It;s also the case that many "muslims" born and bred here, are probably closet Athiests that have been very much westernised by our own culture, who probably drink discreetly with their mates, etc, but still keep up the appearance, because, well, apostacy doesn't tend to end well for those raised by Muslim parents.  So, indeed, not ALL Muslims can be critized personally, by absolving Islam itself, as a belief culture, purely based on the fact it is a religion, is an astonishing point-of-view.  I wonder if you would say the same about Satanists.

 

 

As for this:

 

 

 "Zerohour thinks its OK to abuse Muslim kids because some nutter went off the deep end."

 

 

 

^ That is incredible slander, i'm not sure how strict the moderation is on this forum, but writing such an outright lie about me should be deserving of a warning or ban.

you stated you couldn't care less about a Muslim kid being abused

[Sidelight]

No they aren't. Most murder cases are not indiscriminate. In a huge number of murder cases, the offender knows their victim.

 

Barcelona was 100% indiscriminate and terrorism is what it is. Islamic terrorism to be more precise.

It would be terribly unfair and wrong to believe that all Muslims have the motivation and capacity to carry out such acts of cowardice and depravity as witnessed in recent days.

However the idea that those who criticise the legalist Islamic belief structure, or make fun of their prophet, are deemed guilty of blasphemy and should be punished severely, it seems is a historical reality.

This and the Islamic inspired, murderous thuggery all too evident on the streets across Europe further enhances the perception and belief that Islam is a vicious cult which stirs up its adherents to strike out with violence and hatred.

[Space Mackerel]

The Catalan regional government is quoting some victims as Catalan and others as being Spanish nationals. Cretins. If there was an attack in Scotland, we could expect the exact same cretinism.

You really need some sort of help.

[John Findlay]

No they aren't. Most murder cases are not indiscriminate. In a huge number of murder cases, the offender knows their victim.

Barcelona was 100% indiscriminate and terrorism is what it is. Islamic terrorism to be more precise.

These attacks are planned therefore to me premeditated so to me murder. They are murderers nothing more nothing less imho.

[Space Mackerel]

These attacks are planned therefore to me premeditated so to me murder. They are murderers nothing more nothing less imho.

Terribly simplistic which doesn't add or solve anything.

 

Our security services will be putting their minds in the minds of these terrorist cells, what do you think causes them to carry out such attacks and what do you think would make them decrease them or even possibly stop?

[Boab]

The Catalan regional government is quoting some victims as Catalan and others as being Spanish nationals. Cretins. If there was an attack in Scotland, we could expect the exact same cretinism.

 

Cannae help yourself eh !

 

Appalling post, but you got the reaction you were looking for.  

 

Very sad.

[elvoys]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40993420

 

What a gal. Much more respect for her and the slain Qandeel Baloch shaking it than Malala who plays the don't offend Islam card despite getting a hole in her head for doing so.

[ZeroHour]

you stated you couldn't care less about a Muslim kid being abused

Indeed.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40993420

 

What a gal. Much more respect for her and the slain Qandeel Baloch shaking it than Malala who plays the don't offend Islam card despite getting a hole in her head for doing so.

 

Malala. Female, Muslim and filled with compassion. Your hatred for her must keep you up at nights.

[John Findlay]

Terribly simplistic which doesn't add or solve anything.

Our security services will be putting their minds in the minds of these terrorist cells, what do you think causes them to carry out such attacks and what do you think would make them decrease them or even possibly stop?

You'very never went up against murderers have you? I have the Irish variety.

 

Now concentrate on the Irish variety for a moment. Times their hatred for the British(English) by a thousand and you still haven't come close to the fanaticism of these murderers currently going around Europe and elsewhere. There won't be a solution to this as this war has been going on for at least 1,500 years before Ireland even got started. Unlike the Irish these people will go nowhere near a ballot box. There is no reasoning with them and sad to say there never will be. We can only carry on doing what we are now and that is a containment job. Again sad to say there will be further attacks in the UK and I mean the UK not just England. They perceive us as weak and not having the stomach to match them. I firmly believe that is one true mistake they have made especially of the British. There is still alot of murder to come. Yes it is in my view more simple than many think.

[cosanostra]

Not true, most people in polls throughout Europe have the first clue but this unpalatable logic seems to be beyond the European political elite.

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/most-europeans-want-muslim-ban-immigration-control-middle-east-countries-syria-iran-iraq-poll-a7567301.html%3famp

 

How is that going to help if the people who have been attacking us are already here?

[Boab]

You'very never went up against murderers have you? I have the Irish variety.

 

Now concentrate on the Irish variety for a moment. Times their hatred for the British(English) by a thousand and you still haven't come close to the fanaticism of these murderers currently going around Europe and elsewhere. There won't be a solution to this as this war has been going on for at least 1,500 years before Ireland even got started. Unlike the Irish these people will go nowhere near a ballot box. There is no reasoning with them and sad to say there never will be. We can only carry on doing what we are now and that is a containment job. Again sad to say there will be further attacks in the UK and I mean the UK not just England. They perceive us as weak and not having the stomach to match them. I firmly believe that is one true mistake they have made especially of the British. There is still alot of murder to come. Yes it is in my view more simple than many think.

Apologies if it has already been mentioned but these attacks will increase. This is a strategy of IS that has been well documented recently. As they suffer more defeats in Iraq and Syria, so the attacks in Europe will increase. The days of telling people to come and fight for a caliphate are over. They know that now. That's why people are being instructed to stay where they are and take the fight to us here. By fight, I mean killing wee lassies at pop concerts....the ********* !

 

As we see IS fall, so it will get worse....but not forever.

[elvoys]

Malala. Female, Muslim and filled with compassion. Your hatred for her must keep you up at nights.

 

I imagine her comments which effectively amounted to 'don't insult Islam or more of us will want to kill you' means her over-brimming 'compassion' likely wouldn't have extended to the Charlie Hebdo staff. 

 

And I said less respect for her not 'hatred' than these two women who fearlessly flaunt male modesty codes in the Wackostans.

 

But you knew that. You disingenuously grasp for the moral high-ground which you ceded a long time ago in your unbending and pitiful defense of this awful, awful religion. 

[Jamboy81]

Unfortunately the pussy who mowed everyone down and then ran away is still at large. Hardly martyrdom is it.

 

Usally the slight positive I take from away from these attacks is that the terrorists usually die, which is the best outcome that we can hope for and with a bit luck hopefully he soon will. He should be captured and put down like a sick animal, anything better would be a waste of time and resources.

[elvoys]

How is that going to help if the people who have been attacking us are already here?

 

The Spain and Finland attack were carried out by migrants as were the Berlin and some of those involved in the Paris and Brussels cells.

 

But it's not just the chaotic, unjoined- up, open border and unenforced asylum policy with NGO collusion that is to blame. The freedom of movement within the block has been exploited again by the Paris/ Brussels cell and spectacularly by the Berlin attacker.

 

In UK we have had the huge impact on al Mahajiroun of Omar Bakri Muhammed and Abu Qutada (Lebanese and Jordanian) but aside from these specifics  the supposed ignorant public understand basic common sense that our masters can't see -  if you have water damage you need to deal with it first by turning of the mains tap.

 

Edit update - Marseilles car crashes into people at a bus stop. You literally can't finish typing a post before the next one. 

[doctor jambo]

Malala. Female, Muslim and filled with compassion. Your hatred for her must keep you up at nights.

How people can be negative about someone portraying the GOOD side of Islam says a lot.

[Ibrahim Tall]

There was a stabbing attack in Russia at the weekend too, stabbed 8 in Surgut before police shot him.

Seems to be every time you check the news at the moment.

[elvoys]

How people can be negative about someone portraying the GOOD side of Islam says a lot.

 

Again Doc, you are confused. Her spirit of defiance and resilience to get an education and campaign for other girls has nothing to do with Islam in Pakistan. It's in spite of it. 

 

Her willingness to condemn with the threat of death criticism of her religion is because of it. Without it's influence I'm sure an intelligent girl like she couldn't come to such stupidity.

 

But again, I was using her western postergirl status as a comparison to two other brave people (one dead) who actively flaunt the deadly modesty conventions and other conservative views, not someone who condones them. This is a digression from the thread admittedly though.

[doctor jambo]

Again Doc, you are confused. Her spirit of defiance and resilience to get an education and campaign for other girls has nothing to do with Islam in Pakistan. It's in spite of it. 

 

Her willingness to condemn with the threat of death criticism of her religion is because of it. Without it's influence I'm sure an intelligent girl like she couldn't come to such stupidity.

 

But again, I was using her western postergirl status as a comparison to two other brave people (one dead) who actively flaunt the deadly modesty conventions and other conservative views, not someone who condones them. This is a digression from the thread admittedly though.

There is no confusion on my part.

young, bright, brave, tolerant and progressive Muslim girl.

Trying to drag some parts of her religion forwards in a sort of conservative way whilst aiming for tolerance and understanding

Baby steps.

Conservative Islam will need to adapt but these things are not done overnight- start small and work up.

Start with education then onto the next thing- creeping liberalisation is harder to resist than overwhelming sudden demands.

I'd love the Imams to suddenly all change their minds in their pensionable years - but it aint going to happen

[ZeroHour]

Conservative Islam will need to adapt 

 

 

More chance of solving global warming by asking the sun to adapt.

[Rocco_Jambo]

How is that going to help if the people who have been attacking us are already here?

Why should it have to?

 

Fair enough if you disagree that such a policy would carry too many negatives but the arguement that a policy which is suggested could decrease a criminal offence perpetrated by a particular demographic should be discounted because it does nothing about other demographics which commit the same offence is pretty terrible and is one that is never used in any other part of the criminal justice system.

 

If a policy was suggested that would cut down on offences of domestic rape the fact that it isn't going to prevent non domestic rapes or prevent rape from ever happening doesn't somehow mean it suddenly has no merit.

 

There may be other reasons against the policy but the arguement that if it doesn't address every demographic who perpetrate the offence or completely solve the problem it is somehow of no merit is very poor.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Reports unconfirmed at present that Younes Abouyaaqoub the suspected driver of the van, has been arrested.

 

More to follow as story develops

 

On going Police operation in Subirats, West of Barcelona.

[Morgan]

Reports unconfirmed at present that Younes Abouyaaqoub the suspected driver of the van, has been arrested.

 

More to follow as story develops

 

On going Police operation in Subirats, West of Barcelona.

If confirmed, I'm delighted they got the b@stard alive.

[manaliveits105]

He appears to have been shot and a robot is checking out his vest . shame that not.

[Cade]

Reports say one man shot dead.

[Don Dan]

Yes he's dead.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

If confirmed, I'm delighted they got the b@stard alive.

 

Spanish Media reporting that he's been shot dead, at least he didn't get the chance to kill anyone else, if his suicide belt was real.

 

Confirmed now by Spanish Police that it was Younes Abouyaaqoub who was shot dead.

[John Findlay]

Spanish Media reporting that he's been shot dead, at least he didn't get the chance to kill anyone else, if his suicide belt was real.

 

Confirmed now by Spanish Police that it was Younes Abouyaaqoub who was shot dead.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Jeff]

Another fake vest. If it was real he would have went to a busy place and used it

[Morgan]

Yes he's dead.

Damn.

 

Much to good for the shitebag.

[Gorgiewave]

The officers' unions of the Spanish National Police and Civil Guard have issued a statement saying they have been excluded from the investigation into this attack and their expertise refused, in order to make the Catalan authorities look like those of an independent state.

 

Perhaps after jihad, perhaps not, depending on how far it's taken, is there anything scummier than nationalism?

[Space Mackerel]

The officers' unions of the Spanish National Police and Civil Guard have issued a statement saying they have been excluded from the investigation into this attack and their expertise refused, in order to make the Catalan authorities look like those of an independent state.

 

Perhaps after jihad, perhaps not, depending on how far it's taken, is there anything scummier than nationalism?

Says the man moaning about Spanish National Police

 

Catalan independence vote on 1st October 2017.

[Cade]

Police say that a viable bomb jacket has been recovered in the rubble of the exploded house that was the cell's bomb making factory.

 

They've also found receipts for hundreds of litres of acetone, detonators, huge amounts of nails and 120 32kg bottles of butane gas.

 

FFS how do purchases like that not raise alarm bells? Surely there should be systems put in place to monitor how much of a product is being sold.

Yes, they probably bought these things in small quantities over time, but repeated purchases of well-known bomb-making ingredients should be flagged up.

Difficult to do if they used cash and bought them from different places, but not impossible.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Police say that a viable bomb jacket has been recovered in the rubble of the exploded house that was the cell's bomb making factory.

 

They've also found receipts for hundreds of litres of acetone, detonators, huge amounts of nails and 120 32kg bottles of butane gas.

 

FFS how do purchases like that not raise alarm bells? Surely there should be systems put in place to monitor how much of a product is being sold.

Yes, they probably bought these things in small quantities over time, but repeated purchases of well-known bomb-making ingredients should be flagged up.

Difficult to do if they used cash and bought them from different places, but not impossible.

TBH the stuff itself would be pretty hard to even track, no idea about Spain but you can buy at least 16KG butane bottles from Petrol stations. If you have multiple people paying cash at multiple petrol stations it wouldn't take long to get 120 without attracting any attention. People do buy it for legitimate reasons so or else you're going to start doing racial profiling, a random North African buying a single canister won't stand out.

Similarly nails, and even acetone. My wife's bought multiple half litre bottles over amazing for doing nails, it's pretty easily available. I seriously doubt they bought a 100L in one go.

That's the main problem, it's easy to track Semtex or even fertiliser but those 'returning' have the know how to build horrible explosives from relatively safe every day ingredients.

[elvoys]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/23/allah-las-gig-cancelled-in-rotterdam-due-to-terror-threat

 

Two guesses why these boys' gig was a targeted.

 

Surprised no one at any point thought about having a little word in there ear. 'See that name lads...'

 

Just checked them out mind u. Great 60s american sound.

[Gorgiewave]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/23/allah-las-gig-cancelled-in-rotterdam-due-to-terror-threat

 

Two guesses why these boys' gig was a targeted.

 

Surprised no one at any point thought about having a little word in there ear. 'See that name lads...'

 

Just checked them out mind u. Great 60s american sound.

 

Good spot!